Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Top Ten Generals

Expand Messages
  • Dave Smith
    Once upon a time, in a land far, far away, I ran a number of polls. We asked all sorts of things, like the top ten generals, worst ten generals, etc. etc. etc.
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 1, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Once upon a time, in a land far, far away, I ran a number of polls.
      We asked all sorts of things, like the top ten generals, worst ten
      generals, etc. etc. etc.

      So I thought I'd share some of them with you, in the interests of
      generating discussion. Some fought in the east - some in the west -
      and some in both. I'll leave it to Shotgun's discretion how far
      conversation can go . . . :-)

      So here's the top ten generals.

      Top 10 Generals
      Ballots First Place Average Votes Per
      Rank Name Cast for Points Votes Points Ballot
      1 Lee, Robert E. 46 388.5 12.5 7.62 8.45
      2 Grant, Ulysses S. 40 360.0 24.0 7.06 9.00
      3 Jackson, Thomas J. 43 280.0 2.0 5.49 6.51
      4 Thomas, George H. 40 271.0 5.5 5.31 6.78
      5 Sherman, William T. 36 240.5 2.0 4.72 6.68
      6 Forrest, Nathan B. 37 207.0 2.0 4.06 5.59
      7 Longstreet, James 37 197.0 1.0 3.86 5.32
      8 Cleburne, Patrick R. 31 143.0 0.0 2.80 4.61
      9 Hancock, Winfield S. 24 112.0 0.0 2.20 4.67
      10 Sheridan, Philip 25 88.5 0.0 1.74 3.54

      It's not pretty, given this browser. In order to see the entire
      list, and a better spacing, see:

      http://members.aol.com/davebob1/awcusa.htm

      More polls to follow.

      Dave

      Dave Smith
      Villa Hills, KY
    • josepharose
      I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven t seen it already. The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as to whom they
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 18, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven't
        seen it already.

        The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as to whom
        they thought were the best generals. They asked: Steven E Woodworth;
        Reid Mitchell; Gordon Rhea; John V Simon; Steven H Newton; and Keith
        Poulter.

        Summarized votes were given thus (1 = 1st place vote)
        Grant: 1,1,1,1,1,2
        Lee: 2,2,2,2,2,3
        Sherman: 3,3,3,4,5,10
        Jackson: 4,4,4,6,9,9
        Thomas: 3,4,5,6,7,8
        Sheridan: 5,6,7
        Forrest: 5,7,10
        Meigs: 3, 5
        Lincoln: 1
        Gorgas: 5,9
        Gordon: 6,8
        J. Johnston: 4
        Longstreet: 6,10
        Hampton: 8,8
        Halleck: 5
        Logan: 8, 10
        Beauregard: 7
        McPherson: 7
        Cleburne: 9
        Hancock: 9
        Early: 9
        Butler: 10
        Scott: 10

        Joseph
      • Tom Mix
        Thanks, Joseph. Very interesting. I had forgotten about it but recall the Meigs vote. A vote that does make some since in a 1-10 rating system. Thanks, Tom ...
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 18, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks, Joseph. Very interesting. I had forgotten about it but recall the
          Meigs vote. A vote that does make some since in a 1-10 rating system.
          Thanks,
          Tom


          -----Original Message-----
          From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of josepharose
          Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 9:57 PM
          To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [civilwarwest] Top Ten Generals

          I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven't
          seen it already.

          The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as to whom
          they thought were the best generals. They asked: Steven E Woodworth;
          Reid Mitchell; Gordon Rhea; John V Simon; Steven H Newton; and Keith
          Poulter.

          Summarized votes were given thus (1 = 1st place vote)
          Grant: 1,1,1,1,1,2
          Lee: 2,2,2,2,2,3
          Sherman: 3,3,3,4,5,10
          Jackson: 4,4,4,6,9,9
          Thomas: 3,4,5,6,7,8
          Sheridan: 5,6,7
          Forrest: 5,7,10
          Meigs: 3, 5
          Lincoln: 1
          Gorgas: 5,9
          Gordon: 6,8
          J. Johnston: 4
          Longstreet: 6,10
          Hampton: 8,8
          Halleck: 5
          Logan: 8, 10
          Beauregard: 7
          McPherson: 7
          Cleburne: 9
          Hancock: 9
          Early: 9
          Butler: 10
          Scott: 10

          Joseph







          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • josepharose
          Tom, You re welcome. I should state that my listing below has them listed top to bottom according to the votes, but that this was done merely by a quick
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 18, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Tom,

            You're welcome.

            I should state that my listing below has them listed top to bottom
            according to the votes, but that this was done merely by a quick
            eyeballing, rather than by calculation. It's possible that a general
            could move up or down a notch.

            Joe

            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks, Joseph. Very interesting. I had forgotten about it but
            recall the
            > Meigs vote. A vote that does make some since in a 1-10 rating system.
            > Thanks,
            > Tom
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of josepharose
            > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 9:57 PM
            > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [civilwarwest] Top Ten Generals
            >
            > I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven't
            > seen it already.
            >
            > The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as to whom
            > they thought were the best generals. They asked: Steven E Woodworth;
            > Reid Mitchell; Gordon Rhea; John V Simon; Steven H Newton; and Keith
            > Poulter.
            >
            > Summarized votes were given thus (1 = 1st place vote)
            > Grant: 1,1,1,1,1,2
            > Lee: 2,2,2,2,2,3
            > Sherman: 3,3,3,4,5,10
            > Jackson: 4,4,4,6,9,9
            > Thomas: 3,4,5,6,7,8
            > Sheridan: 5,6,7
            > Forrest: 5,7,10
            > Meigs: 3, 5
            > Lincoln: 1
            > Gorgas: 5,9
            > Gordon: 6,8
            > J. Johnston: 4
            > Longstreet: 6,10
            > Hampton: 8,8
            > Halleck: 5
            > Logan: 8, 10
            > Beauregard: 7
            > McPherson: 7
            > Cleburne: 9
            > Hancock: 9
            > Early: 9
            > Butler: 10
            > Scott: 10
            >
            > Joseph
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • Tom Mix
            Joseph, I m waiting for your picks. Tom ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josepharose Sent: Sunday,
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 18, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Joseph,
              I'm waiting for your picks.
              Tom

              -----Original Message-----
              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of josepharose
              Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 11:09 PM
              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Top Ten Generals

              Tom,

              You're welcome.

              I should state that my listing below has them listed top to bottom
              according to the votes, but that this was done merely by a quick
              eyeballing, rather than by calculation. It's possible that a general
              could move up or down a notch.

              Joe

              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks, Joseph. Very interesting. I had forgotten about it but
              recall the
              > Meigs vote. A vote that does make some since in a 1-10 rating system.
              > Thanks,
              > Tom
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of josepharose
              > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 9:57 PM
              > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [civilwarwest] Top Ten Generals
              >
              > I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven't
              > seen it already.
              >
              > The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as to whom
              > they thought were the best generals. They asked: Steven E Woodworth;
              > Reid Mitchell; Gordon Rhea; John V Simon; Steven H Newton; and Keith
              > Poulter.
              >
              > Summarized votes were given thus (1 = 1st place vote)
              > Grant: 1,1,1,1,1,2
              > Lee: 2,2,2,2,2,3
              > Sherman: 3,3,3,4,5,10
              > Jackson: 4,4,4,6,9,9
              > Thomas: 3,4,5,6,7,8
              > Sheridan: 5,6,7
              > Forrest: 5,7,10
              > Meigs: 3, 5
              > Lincoln: 1
              > Gorgas: 5,9
              > Gordon: 6,8
              > J. Johnston: 4
              > Longstreet: 6,10
              > Hampton: 8,8
              > Halleck: 5
              > Logan: 8, 10
              > Beauregard: 7
              > McPherson: 7
              > Cleburne: 9
              > Hancock: 9
              > Early: 9
              > Butler: 10
              > Scott: 10
              >
              > Joseph
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >









              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • josepharose
              ... Only if you insist: 1. Who is your favorite General? Thomas 2. Who is your least liked General? All of those who mistreated their soldiers and fellow
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 18, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
                >
                > Joseph,
                > I'm waiting for your picks.
                > Tom



                Only if you insist:

                1. Who is your favorite General?
                Thomas

                2. Who is your least liked General?
                All of those who mistreated their soldiers and fellow officers.

                3. Who was the best General?
                Lee, of those few who had plenty of opportunity too demonstrate
                prowess. Cleburne, Thomas and Forrest, of those who had fewer
                high-level opportunities. I've heard good things about Gordon, but
                don't know his work at all well.

                4. Who was the worst General?
                There are so many who might be front-runners but, by their very
                nature, people will probably not study their careers as intensively
                and that makes a true comparison difficult. Burnside stands out,
                however, for me.

                5. Who was the most under-rated General?
                Also difficult to determine. McClernand gets almost uniformly
                terrible reviews, and certainly does not deserve all of that
                vituperative criticism.

                6. Who was the most over-rated General?
                Sherman, almost without question among the big-bugs.
              • William H Keene
                ... In another issue the same authors were asked to vote for the worst generals. I dont have a copy of it so I cant provide the breakdown. Odd to see Lincoln
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 18, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "josepharose" <josepharose@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven't
                  > seen it already.
                  >
                  > The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as to whom
                  > they thought were the best generals....

                  In another issue the same authors were asked to vote for the worst
                  generals. I dont have a copy of it so I cant provide the breakdown.

                  Odd to see Lincoln get a vote as one of the best generals.

                  > Summarized votes were given thus (1 = 1st place vote)
                  > Grant: 1,1,1,1,1,2
                  > Lee: 2,2,2,2,2,3
                  > Sherman: 3,3,3,4,5,10
                  > Jackson: 4,4,4,6,9,9
                  > Thomas: 3,4,5,6,7,8
                  > Sheridan: 5,6,7
                  > Forrest: 5,7,10
                  > Meigs: 3, 5
                  > Lincoln: 1
                  > Gorgas: 5,9
                  > Gordon: 6,8
                  > J. Johnston: 4
                  > Longstreet: 6,10
                  > Hampton: 8,8
                  > Halleck: 5
                  > Logan: 8, 10
                  > Beauregard: 7
                  > McPherson: 7
                  > Cleburne: 9
                  > Hancock: 9
                  > Early: 9
                  > Butler: 10
                  > Scott: 10
                  >
                  > Joseph
                  >
                • bjer50010
                  ... ... to whom ... worst ... breakdown. ... Both of those articles are available for download at
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene"
                    <wh_keene@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "josepharose"
                    <josepharose@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven't
                    > > seen it already.
                    > >
                    > > The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as
                    to whom
                    > > they thought were the best generals....
                    >
                    > In another issue the same authors were asked to vote for the
                    worst
                    > generals. I dont have a copy of it so I cant provide the
                    breakdown.
                    >

                    Both of those articles are available for download at
                    http://www.northandsouthmagazine.com/articles.htm. There are
                    several other articles at the same site, including one about the
                    Sultana disaster.

                    > Odd to see Lincoln get a vote as one of the best generals.
                    >
                    > > Summarized votes were given thus (1 = 1st place vote)
                    > > Grant: 1,1,1,1,1,2
                    > > Lee: 2,2,2,2,2,3
                    > > Sherman: 3,3,3,4,5,10
                    > > Jackson: 4,4,4,6,9,9
                    > > Thomas: 3,4,5,6,7,8
                    > > Sheridan: 5,6,7
                    > > Forrest: 5,7,10
                    > > Meigs: 3, 5
                    > > Lincoln: 1
                    > > Gorgas: 5,9
                    > > Gordon: 6,8
                    > > J. Johnston: 4
                    > > Longstreet: 6,10
                    > > Hampton: 8,8
                    > > Halleck: 5
                    > > Logan: 8, 10
                    > > Beauregard: 7
                    > > McPherson: 7
                    > > Cleburne: 9
                    > > Hancock: 9
                    > > Early: 9
                    > > Butler: 10
                    > > Scott: 10
                    > >
                    > > Joseph
                    > >
                    >
                  • keeno2@aol.com
                    In a message dated 6/19/2006 8:16:16 AM Central Daylight Time, barry.jewell@yale.edu writes: Both of those articles are available for download at
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In a message dated 6/19/2006 8:16:16 AM Central Daylight Time, barry.jewell@... writes:
                      Both of those articles are available for download at
                      http://www.northandsouthmagazine.com/articles.htm.  There are
                      several other articles at the same site, including one about the
                      Sultana disaster.
                      Thanks for the heads up on the downloads. The same gentlemen participated in a "10 Worst Mistakes" article that makes a fascinating read.
                      Ken
                    • Bob Huddleston
                      Thanks, Joseph, for this list. I subscribe but had forgotten about this issue! : ( It is interesting to see how some icons, like NBF, score low. And how
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks, Joseph, for this list.
                         
                        I subscribe but had forgotten about this issue! :>(
                         
                        It is interesting to see how some icons, like NBF, score low. And how Longstreet is forgotten by 4 of the 6, while Old Jack makes all of them.
                         
                        The inclusion of Meigs by only two is a good demonstration of the old adage that amateurs study battles and professionals study logistics. There is, BTW, another quartermaster on the list, the old regimental quartermaster of the Fourth Regulars, Sam Grant.It is no accident that he was good at running a campaign!
                         
                        As for the inclusion of Lincoln, that  is also doing some good thinking -- he learned fast, with teachers like Scott, Halleck and McClellan, as his profs.

                        Take care,

                        Bob (whose great grandfather, bvt Major John Scott, late of the Army of the Cumberland, served as quartermaster of the Fourth Regulars from 1876 to 1883)

                        Judy and Bob Huddleston
                        10643 Sperry Street
                        Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
                        303.451.6376  Huddleston.r@...

                        "Don't argue with someone who claims the earth is flat. You haven't given it a second thought, whereas he has spent 20 years thinking about and obsessing over why it is flat."

                         


                        From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of josepharose
                        Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:57 PM
                        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [civilwarwest] Top Ten Generals

                        I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven't
                        seen it already.

                        The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as to whom
                        they thought were the best generals. They asked: Steven E Woodworth;
                        Reid Mitchell; Gordon Rhea; John V Simon; Steven H Newton; and Keith
                        Poulter.

                        Summarized votes were given thus (1 = 1st place vote)
                        Grant: 1,1,1,1,1,2
                        Lee: 2,2,2,2,2,3
                        Sherman: 3,3,3,4,5,10
                        Jackson: 4,4,4,6,9,9
                        Thomas: 3,4,5,6,7,8
                        Sheridan: 5,6,7
                        Forrest: 5,7,10
                        Meigs: 3, 5
                        Lincoln: 1
                        Gorgas: 5,9
                        Gordon: 6,8
                        J. Johnston: 4
                        Longstreet: 6,10
                        Hampton: 8,8
                        Halleck: 5
                        Logan: 8, 10
                        Beauregard: 7
                        McPherson: 7
                        Cleburne: 9
                        Hancock: 9
                        Early: 9
                        Butler: 10
                        Scott: 10

                        Joseph

                      • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
                        I would like to know how the question was phrased to these authors. If in fact the phrase, was as paraphrased, then the respondents must have answered in a
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 19, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I would like to know how the question was phrased to these authors. If in fact
                          the phrase, was as paraphrased, then the respondents must have answered in a
                          fashion of popularity. I would point out some initial conclusions IMO.
                          1. Grant, Lee, Sherman, Jackson... 1234 by the majority as if the layman
                          were asked by way of fame.
                          2. Halleck and Johnston on best and worst
                          3.Why was Lincoln picked( Sherman's reasoning on politicians would have excluded him even if he had been of rank )
                          4. Interesting on the worst..Pillow and Floyd were at Donelson and gave the Union access to the rivers.
                          5. Very little agreement after the 1st five

                          I would like to see a ranking based on several headings with such headings given values and then tabulated. Maybe it is fruitless to do so, but possibly interesting. eg. ?? Theater or strategic commander, Campaign mgr., Prisoners taken, munitions captured, Moral of commanded, victories, victories against the odds, integrity, failures with the odds, etc



                          Regards,

                          -------------- Original message ----------------------
                          From: "Bob Huddleston" <huddleston.r@...>
                          > Thanks, Joseph, for this list.
                          >
                          > I subscribe but had forgotten about this issue! :>(
                          >
                          > It is interesting to see how some icons, like NBF, score low. And how
                          > Longstreet is forgotten by 4 of the 6, while Old Jack makes all of them.
                          >
                          > The inclusion of Meigs by only two is a good demonstration of the old adage
                          > that amateurs study battles and professionals study logistics. There is,
                          > BTW, another quartermaster on the list, the old regimental quartermaster of
                          > the Fourth Regulars, Sam Grant.It is no accident that he was good at running
                          > a campaign!
                          >
                          > As for the inclusion of Lincoln, that is also doing some good thinking --
                          > he learned fast, with teachers like Scott, Halleck and McClellan, as his
                          > profs.
                          >
                          > Take care,
                          >
                          > Bob (whose great grandfather, bvt Major John Scott, late of the Army of the
                          > Cumberland, served as quartermaster of the Fourth Regulars from 1876 to
                          > 1883)
                          >
                          > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                          > 10643 Sperry Street
                          > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                          > 303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...
                          >
                          > "Don't argue with someone who claims the earth is flat. You haven't given it
                          > a second thought, whereas he has spent 20 years thinking about and obsessing
                          > over why it is flat."
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of josepharose
                          > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 8:57 PM
                          > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [civilwarwest] Top Ten Generals
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I thought that you would all find this interesting, if you haven't
                          > seen it already.
                          >
                          > The magazine, North and South, polled six noted authors as to whom
                          > they thought were the best generals. They asked: Steven E Woodworth;
                          > Reid Mitchell; Gordon Rhea; John V Simon; Steven H Newton; and Keith
                          > Poulter.
                          >
                          > Summarized votes were given thus (1 = 1st place vote)
                          > Grant: 1,1,1,1,1,2
                          > Lee: 2,2,2,2,2,3
                          > Sherman: 3,3,3,4,5,10
                          > Jackson: 4,4,4,6,9,9
                          > Thomas: 3,4,5,6,7,8
                          > Sheridan: 5,6,7
                          > Forrest: 5,7,10
                          > Meigs: 3, 5
                          > Lincoln: 1
                          > Gorgas: 5,9
                          > Gordon: 6,8
                          > J. Johnston: 4
                          > Longstreet: 6,10
                          > Hampton: 8,8
                          > Halleck: 5
                          > Logan: 8, 10
                          > Beauregard: 7
                          > McPherson: 7
                          > Cleburne: 9
                          > Hancock: 9
                          > Early: 9
                          > Butler: 10
                          > Scott: 10
                          >
                          > Joseph
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.