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RE: [civilwarwest] Nat Lyon in Missouri

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  • jaaah@tbcnet.com
    Hank, Lyon almost single-handedly brought the war to Missouri through the Camp Jackson fiasco, which was an incredibly stupid thing to do. He marched into a
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 2, 2001
      Hank, Lyon almost single-handedly brought the war to Missouri through the Camp Jackson fiasco, which was an incredibly stupid thing to do. He marched into a disbanding camp of city militia and demanded they surrender, and then as they are marched through the streets a drunken man is injured by the Feds as he attempts to pass them, and so he wounds one with a pistol, and the reaction is Lyon's men opening fire, killing over 20 men, women, and children, and wounding some 70 more. I also believe that Lyon was a blunderer at Wilson's Creek. Fremont, overall, must be blamed for ignoring Lyon's movements until it was too late, but it was Lyon who attacked a large enemy with a small army and incorporated Franz Sigel's very flawed flank attack plan, and thus got his army whipped and lost his life. Overall, Nathaniel Lyon's 1861 Missouri Campaign accomplished little. He did drive the MSG half across the state (the MSG was then poorly trained and even more poorly equipped) but the major!
      ity of his actual movements were mistakes, Camp Cole was a good example, there a large part of a brigade was routed, a camp destroyed, and a regiment captured. Carthage is a prime example. In that battle, Lyon nearly lost a good chunk of his "Army of the West", and at Forsyth his men under Sweeny attacked a small (almost minuscule) band of Guardsmen, and although he at first took the town Sweeny was chased out when a prisoner exaggerated the Guard's numbers in the city beyond belief. Finally, at Wilson's Creek Lyon's command was cut up and Lyon himself came out (or rather was taken out) with the appearance of Swiss cheese.

      Addison Hart


      > ** Original Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Rosecrans at Chickamauga
      > ** Original Sender: clarkc@...
      > ** Original Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:30:27 -0500

      > ** Original Message follows...

      >
      > <html><body>
      > <tt>
      > <BR>
      > I'll water a thread on Wilson's Creek (just for variety).<BR>
      > <BR>
      > Lyon recognized he was overextended and fearing close pursuit he <BR>
      > wanted to strike a blow to knock the CSA forces off-balance so he <BR>
      > could withdraw to his railroad depot at Rolla.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > He had Sigel and the CSA had Price and ???<BR>
      > <BR>
      > I recall that Lyon almost single-handedly retained MO for the USA by <BR>
      > maintaining the lines of commerce and communication on THE river (the <BR>
      > Missouri) and the railroads.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > Cheers,<BR>
      > HankC<BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > <BR>
      > --- In civilwarwest@y..., hartshje@a... wrote:<BR>
      > > Baron von Michael :),<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > >  Grant DID take a huge risk and it paid off handsomely.  R.E..Lee <BR>
      > took<BR>
      > > some mighty big ones too; some worked, some didn't (but we can't get <BR>
      > > into that here).  One big risk taker for the North was Nathaniel <BR>
      > > Lyon, and his gamble ended in disaster at Wilson's Creek.  But truly<BR>
      > > the moral of the story is that without big risks, there were not <BR>
      > going<BR>
      > > to be any big results, especially for the South.  <BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > Joe H.<BR>
      > > <BR>
      > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "Michael Mason" <richthofen@b....> wrote:<BR>
      > > > I think Grant took the biggest risk of the war at Vicksburg,if<BR>
      > > > he had been defeated or cornered,it would have been very hard not <BR>
      > > to have lost the whole Army,being he was cut off from the North and <BR>
      > > was out numbered in the area!<BR>
      > > > The Baron<BR>
      > > > <BR>
      > > > <BR>
      > > > <BR>
      > > > On 02-Aug-01, Dave Smith <dmsmith001@y...> wrote:<BR>
      > > > <html><body><BR>
      > > > <tt><BR>
      > > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., hartshje@a... wrote:<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > snips<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > >��� This is very true, and goes directly to the crux of the <BR>
      > > matter:<BR><BR>
      > > > > "Bragg was willing for them to do it on their own"..� Following <BR>
      > up <BR>
      > > a<BR><BR>
      > > > > victory, especially against a routed and demoralized enemy, does <BR>
      > > not<BR><BR>
      > > > > mean "let them" do anything.� The victor is the one who should <BR>
      > be <BR>
      > > <BR><BR>
      > > > > doing the "doing".� Wouldn't you agree?<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > Of course.� It's always interesting to me the degree to which many <BR>
      > > <BR><BR>
      > > > Civil War generals - on both sides - were unwilling to accept <BR>
      > > risk.<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > While not always the ardent Stonewall Jackson fan, that particular <BR>
      > > <BR><BR>
      > > > trait - willingness to accept risk - is perhaps Jackson's most <BR>
      > <BR><BR>
      > > > endearing trait to me.� One only wonders had he been in command in <BR>
      > > <BR><BR>
      > > > the west, post Corinth, and not Bragg . . .<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > One of my favorite Bragg anecdotes has to do with the night of <BR>
      > <BR><BR>
      > > > September 20, at Chickamauga.� Bragg, asleep in his retired HQ, is <BR>
      > > <BR><BR>
      > > > wakened by a Polk messenger, who reports a victory.� According to <BR>
      > a <BR>
      > > <BR><BR>
      > > > Bragg staff officer, Bragg "could not be induced to see it in that <BR>
      > > <BR><BR>
      > > > light."<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > Go figure.<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > Dave<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > Dave Smith<BR><BR>
      > > > Villa Hills, KY<BR><BR>
      > > > <BR><BR>
      > > > </tt><BR>
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