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Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Was Pemberton Wrong, Bad, Incompetent (Vicksburg Campaign)

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  • John Lawrence
    Yazoo, canal, they all count. 7 tries. Regards, Jack
    Message 1 of 52 , Jan 9, 2013
      Yazoo, canal, they all count.
      7 tries.
      Regards,
      Jack

      Tony <tony_gunter@...> wrote:

      >It wasn't Grant's 7th try. It was his first full campaign on Vicksburg.
      >
      >His overland attempt was aborted by Lincoln and Halleck at Oxford, MS.
      >
      >The next attempt for Vicksburg starts with Grant landing at Milliken's Bend in January and expressing a desire to move south of the city. The fact that he initiated multiple initiatives toward that end doesn't constitute multiple attempts to take the city, they were all part of an integrated plan to get in Pemberton's rear.
      >
      >--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, John Lawrence wrote:
      >>
      >> Another way to look at it was this Grant's 7th try and he only had to win once.
      >> Regards,
      >> Jack
      >>
      >> Tony wrote:
      >>
      >> >--- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "callicles1" wrote:
      >> >>
      >> >> I am of the opinion that Pemberton acquitted himself well enough during the campaign. He just ran up against Grant. I'm just wondering what you folks think.
      >> >>
      >> >> 1. Was Grant that good; or
      >> >>
      >> >> 2. Was Pemberton that bad; or
      >> >>
      >> >> 3. Is it some where in between?
      >> >>
      >> >
      >> >Can I answer this in multiple parts? :)
      >> >
      >> >Grant's Yazoo Pass raid, though turned back at Fort Pemberton, had a major impact on Pemberton's ability to defend the interior of Mississippi. When Pemberton learned troops were sailing south through Yazoo pass, he deployed his scouts into the Yazoo River delta where they could not easily be recalled. As a consequence, Pemberton was forced to utilize amateur scouts against Grant's seasoned veterans between Port Gibson / Jackson / Edward's Station. As a result, Gregg assumed he was facing only a brigade at Raymond. This resulted in a complete rout at Raymond, which took Gregg's brigade off the table at Jackson and meant Johnston only had roughly 4000 men to defend Jackson. Complicating matters, Pemberton's cavalry was run ragged and his rail infratructure was compromised by Grierson's raid.
      >> >
      >> >GOOD: Grant kept Pemberton on his toes, launching multiple efforts to strike at Pemberton's ability to wage war and open up a path south of Vicksburg. Yazoo Pass Raid, Grierson's raid, Sherman's feigned assault at Snyder's Bluff, Grant's canal, and Lake Providence all kept Pemberton guessing as to Grant's intent and direction of attack.
      >> >
      >> >BAD: Pemberton really should have spent some energy developing intel on the area south of the railroad. When the sh*t hit the fan, Pemberton's troops acted like they were the visiting team, often taking the wrong roads and failing to understand the location and direction of Grant's movements.
      >> >
      >> >2) Pemberton
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >------------------------------------
      >> >
      >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >
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      >
      >------------------------------------
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
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      >
    • Ned Baldwin
      ... He did receive direction from Halleck; Halleck did not remain Mute. ... Baseless. ... Would there have been a disaster at Holly Springs without the
      Message 52 of 52 , Jan 10, 2013
        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" wrote:
        > Starting in early October IIRC, Grant asked repeatedly for direction. What am I to do? What is my objective? How should I proceed. Receiving absolutely no direction from Halleck, Grant outlined a plan: consolidate his force against Holly Springs, drive Pemberton south rebuilding the railroad as he went, take Vicksburg from the interior. Still, Halleck remained mute about Grant's objectives, despite the fact that Halleck was aware that McClernand had bent Lincoln's ear towards a riverine campaign.
        >
        >

        He did receive direction from Halleck; Halleck did not remain Mute.



        > So we have Lincoln stabbing Grant in the back, and Halleck feeding him lies.
        >

        Baseless.


        >
        Would there have been a disaster at Holly Springs without the riverine expedition?
        >

        Absolutely.



        > As far as inventing my own history, go bugger yourself in the earhole.
        >

        Truth hurts huh.
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