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Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Where the War REALLY was Won (and who won it)

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  • Joseph R. Reinhart
    Fran Should Jefferson, IN should be Jeffersonville, IN. Joe ________________________________ From: fwnash@comcast.net To:
    Message 1 of 62 , Sep 28, 2009
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      Should Jefferson, IN should be Jeffersonville, IN. 

      From: "fwnash@..." <fwnash@...>
      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:05:42 PM
      Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Where the War REALLY was Won (and who won it)


                                            Sep 27


      Mr W


      The "Pooks Turtles" were the City class gunboats/ironclads built in St Louis.  A couple of "City" boats were  also built in Jefferson, IN and at least one in Monogahela, PA.    The City of Memphis built in Monongahela, PA was a hospital boat in 1862 that carried wounded Union soldiers from Ft Donelson to St Louis.  I do not know if it was an official "pook turtle" or just a modified packet.  Some references claim only seven "pook turtles", that could barely overcome the current  when steaming upriver because of their heavy iron plates and naval artillery, were built.  I doubt that those seven boats were built in the Pittsburgh region although the there is a 60% probability iron plates and artillery were forged in Pittsburgh.


      Some say I have been far too critical of railroads.  How can you love a stone-cold strip of iron or steel, ever the same except for its deterioration?  A river has a natural energy, comes into existence moving, always aging, growing, and wondrously strong and strange.  It’s something alive which could take you in a moment to its deadly bottom.  (Paraphrased from William Least Heat-Moon.)  Tall stack packets have a grace and beauty in a living river setting.  Steam locomotives looked like otherworldly monsters racing across the land on their parallel ribbons of iron rails.


      Still too strong?!? 

      Fran Nash




      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "David Wall" <wah_mei_1388@ msn.com>
      To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:11:28 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
      Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Where the War REALLY was Won (and who won it)

      Mound city is in Ilinois. Right next to Cairo.



      To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
      From: keeno2@...
      Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:29:40 -0400
      Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Where the War REALLY was Won (and who won it)


      In a message dated 9/26/2009 10:37:06 A.M. Central Daylight Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:
      I'm thinking those were built in Illinois?

      I'm thinking more like St. Louis and Mound City. Doubtful that they were built much farther up the Ohio.The original post remarked on Iowa ship-yards, which was new to me.
      Agree that it was a new start towards getting some action on this board.


    • fwnash@comcast.net
      This letter, published in the S&D Reflector in Dec 1969, was written by the mayor of Pittsburgh to recognize six steamboat captains and their vessels for their
      Message 62 of 62 , Nov 4 11:45 AM
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        This letter, published in the S&D Reflector in Dec 1969, was written by the mayor of Pittsburgh to recognize six steamboat captains and their vessels for their service to the country. 


                                         Pittsburgh, PA,

                                         Feb 19th, 1862


        I desire that the captains of the following

        steamers be placed on record for the patriotic

        and liberal (volunteering) of their services

        and boats, without renumeration, to proceed

        immediately to the Cumberland River to relieve

        the sick and wounded soldiers:  Rocket, Capt

        Wolf; Clara Poe, Capt Poe, Horizon, Capt

        Stockdale; Emma, Capt Maratta; Westmorland,

        Capt Evans; Sir William Wallace, Capt Hugh



                                        B. C. Sawyer, Jr., Mayor.



        My search for the original letter has failed to date.  To whom the letter was addressed is unknown.  What words were replaced?  The subject of the paragraph in the S&D Reflector was salaries of the captains of the steamers during the war.  Apparently, boats and crews who worked for no salary were not uncommon especially when pressed to service.


        The letter was also interesting from the steamer point of view.  Three boats were destroyed during the war.  In Jan 1865, the Emma collided with the Louisville ferry.  Both vessels were disabled and both floated helplessly over the falls.  A dramatic ending for the Emma.   The Clara Poe, bound for Nashville with supplies, was burned on 17 Apr 1865 by rebels along the Cumberland River .  That date was curious.  Hostilities in the west continued for about thirty days after Appomattox .  While running at night without lights, the Horizon collided with the Moderator near Vicksburg on 1 May 1863 resulting in the deaths of many soldiers.


        All six boats were built and manned from the Pittsburgh region.  The Clara Poe and the Horizon were owned and operated by my guys from Georgetown , PA. 


        Another description of the impact of the Civil War on river commerce is found in a brief editorial - The Golden Age of Steamboating.  If the hyperlink fails, the web page is:




        Research on RR capabilities during the Civil War continues. 

        Fran Nash





        ----- Original Message -----
        From: fwnash@...
        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 12:21:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
        Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Where the War REALLY was Won (and who won it)

        Mr K

        Wonderful story.   Thanks for sharing.   I often wonder what our great great grandchildren will think of our lives and artifacts.  


        Your phrase “marched along the RR towards Vicksburg ” peaked my interest.   As you are probably aware, my  interest involves inland river steamboats from 1850-1870.   I am also interested in Civil War railroads in Pittsburgh .   There is a CWWT topic “Railroads” dated 20 Oct 2002.   After I read the entries, I may throw out another possibly nutty idea .  


        Speaking of crazy, did we reach any conclusion on where the war was won, and who won it?   Vicksburg and the Pook Turtles or Pittsburgh and the rivermen or?!?  Currently, t he topic has more than sixty entries and, in my opinion, the discussion h as been  quite interesting and entertaining .  

        Fran Nash

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "edkiniry" <wah_mei_1388@...>
        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2009 12:35:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
        Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Where the War REALLY was Won (and who won it)

        Thank you for asking. The story is in a small notebook that my mother used as a diary and a record of her collage days, about 1918. I found this story under a heading "Stories my father told me about the Civil War."I will parapharase.

        I took sick after Shiloh and was sent to a hospital in Mound City. after a few weeks I wanted to return to my unit but the doctors thought I should still nurse. I found two soldiers who wanted to stay and nurse but were to be released and did not want to go. Me and my partner changed names with them and we left. We were traveling to the unit, in Tennessee, when we were caught by the sentries. we were taken before General Grant for a disposition. He said to the sentries "These boys are all right, let them return to their unit, but you shall make sure they get there." They joined the battery in time for Grant's march along the RR toward Vicksburg, and fell back when Van Dorn raided their supply depot at Holly Springs.

        I couldn't believe what I was reading, swapped identities, a meeting of two privates under guard, with General Grant and it turned out O. K. and it was MY grandfather.
        I am extremely glad that "mom" quieried her father about his experiences and recorded them.

        An interesting side note: The Federals could not communicate with Sherman, that they would not make their part of the attack, but the rebels notified Pemberton of what had happened. It was approximately the same distance, but Forrest had made havoc with the Federal communications in Tennessee, and Grant could not tell Sherman that it was "all off."


        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "carlw4514" <carlw4514@...> wrote:
        > David, we would love to hear that story... and I too scold keeno2 [will?] for being dense and saying none were built in ILL.

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