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Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter

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  • keeno2@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/20/2008 7:26:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo.com writes: If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
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      In a message dated 11/20/2008 7:26:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, carlw4514@... writes:
      If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS guard, but under the control of their own army, US. They were honor-bound to await exchange.
      Brilliant. A classic example of thinking outside the box. At that time, a parole was taken seriously. You left the army until you were notified that you had been exchanged.
       
      Next question: Was St. Louis home? Or was there a facility there to maintain paroled men until their exchange?



    • Nick KURTZ
      Jefferson Barracks would be a logical place in St Louis. I know from another diary that they were kept in St Louis. I ll have to look at it again to see if
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
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        Jefferson Barracks would be a logical place in St Louis. I know from
        another diary that they were kept in St Louis. I'll have to look at it
        again to see if he mentions where in St Louis. Eventually he grew tired of
        waiting, slipped onto a transport and rejoined his regiment outside of
        Vicksburg. Told his colonel he was tired of waiting, understood he could
        face death if captured again and promised not to ever be captured again. I
        would think a good colonel would send the man back rather than break a
        parole but maybe this part of the story was more bravado than truth.
        --Nick


        >From: keeno2@...
        >Reply-To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
        >To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter
        >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:23:58 EST
        >
        >
        >In a message dated 11/20/2008 7:26:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,
        >carlw4514@... writes:
        >
        >If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS guard, but
        >under
        >the control of their own army, US. They were honor-bound to await
        >exchange.
        >
        >
        >
        >Brilliant. A classic example of thinking outside the box. At that time, a
        >parole was taken seriously. You left the army until you were notified that
        >you
        >had been exchanged.
        >
        >Next question: Was St. Louis home? Or was there a facility there to
        >maintain
        >paroled men until their exchange?
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        >%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)
      • Patricia Swan
        They were held in the Benton Barracks. The paroled soldiers had to be at a post to be exchanged. The post in St. Louis was the Benton Barracks.
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
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          They were held in the Benton Barracks. The paroled soldiers had to be
          at a post to be exchanged. The post in St. Louis was the Benton Barracks.

          keeno2@... wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 11/20/2008 7:26:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,
          > carlw4514@... writes:
          >
          > If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS guard,
          > but under the control of their own army, US. They were honor-bound
          > to await exchange.
          >
          > Brilliant. A classic example of thinking outside the box. At that
          > time, a parole was taken seriously. You left the army until you were
          > notified that you had been exchanged.
          >
          > Next question: Was St. Louis home? Or was there a facility there to
          > maintain paroled men until their exchange?
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and
          > the things you love. *Try the new AOL.com
          > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001>
          > today!*
          >
        • keeno2@aol.com
          How could I forget Jefferson Barracks! Very logical that he was sent there to await exchange. Ken **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
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            How could I forget Jefferson Barracks! Very logical that he was sent there to await exchange.
             
            Ken



          • keeno2@aol.com
            I ve not heard of the Benton Barracks. If there was a facility there, it s not that far from Jefferson Barracks. For the sake of accuracy, I ll accept Benton
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
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              I've not heard of the Benton Barracks. If there was a facility there, it's not that far from Jefferson Barracks. For the sake of accuracy, I'll accept Benton Barracks in that it adds to the explanation of why Strange was sent to St. Louis. (On thinking that over, I was thinking of Fenton. Whatever. It still makes sense.)
               
              Ken



            • Patricia Swan
              Benton Barracks was named for Senator Benton. Certainly some of those paroled at Holly Springs on Dec. 20th 1862 were held at Benton. Letters were written by
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
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                Benton Barracks was named for Senator Benton. Certainly some of those
                paroled at Holly Springs on Dec. 20th 1862 were held at Benton. Letters
                were written by them from those barracks. However, it is possible that
                not all were held in one location. Thus, Jefferson barracks (about
                which I know little to nothing) may have been a holding place as well.

                keeno2@... wrote:
                >
                > I've not heard of the Benton Barracks. If there was a facility there,
                > it's not that far from Jefferson Barracks. For the sake of accuracy,
                > I'll accept Benton Barracks in that it adds to the explanation of why
                > Strange was sent to St. Louis. (On thinking that over, I was thinking
                > of Fenton. Whatever. It still makes sense.)
                >
                > Ken
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and
                > the things you love. *Try the new AOL.com
                > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001>
                > today!*
                >
              • James Strange
                Thank you all - I really learned something about the honor system that prevailed even in time of war -...    This makes perfect sence since he was allowed to
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
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                  Thank you all - I really learned something about the honor system that prevailed even in time of war -... 
                   
                  This makes perfect sence since he was allowed to visit with Nelson in the hospital - and that Nelson was taken to the "General" Hospital in St. Louis.  My grandfather was a stickler for always living up to your word - he said that he learned that from his father.  I know now where that came from. 
                   
                  Once again, thanks for all the help. 
                   

                  --- On Thu, 11/20/08, Patricia Swan <pbswan@...> wrote:
                  From: Patricia Swan <pbswan@...>
                  Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter
                  To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 2:20 PM

                  Benton Barracks was named for Senator Benton. Certainly some of those
                  paroled at Holly Springs on Dec. 20th 1862 were held at Benton. Letters
                  were written by them from those barracks. However, it is possible that
                  not all were held in one location. Thus, Jefferson barracks (about
                  which I know little to nothing) may have been a holding place as well.

                  keeno2@... wrote:
                  >
                  > I've not heard of the Benton Barracks. If there was a facility there,
                  > it's not that far from Jefferson Barracks. For the sake of accuracy,
                  > I'll accept Benton Barracks in that it adds to the explanation of why
                  > Strange was sent to St. Louis. (On thinking that over, I was thinking
                  > of Fenton. Whatever. It still makes sense.)
                  >
                  > Ken
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                  > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and
                  > the things you love. *Try the new AOL.com
                  > <http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100000075x121296 2939x1200825291/ aol?redir= http://www. aol.com/? optin=new- dp%26icid= aolcom40vanity% 26ncid=emlcntaol com00000001>
                  > today!*
                  >

                • Dave
                  My great grandfather was a union army captain who was released as a POH - parole on honor - after capture by Captain Morgan - and was sent north and trained
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
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                    My great grandfather was a union army captain who was released as a POH - parole on honor - after capture by Captain Morgan - and was sent north and trained green troops in Baltimore until exchanged. A friend of mine has trouble doing genealogy on his great-great grandfather - a confederate - since he was captured twice and released on a POH but he immediately returned to active under a slightly different spelling of his name.
                    Dave in Falls Church VA.
                  • savage.albert
                    ... POH - parole on honor - after capture by Captain Morgan - and was sent north and trained green troops in Baltimore until exchanged. A friend of mine has
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 30, 2008
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                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dave718@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > My great grandfather was a union army captain who was released as a
                      POH - parole on honor - after capture by Captain Morgan - and was sent
                      north and trained green troops in Baltimore until exchanged. A friend
                      of mine has trouble doing genealogy on his great-great grandfather - a
                      confederate - since he was captured twice and released on a POH but he
                      immediately returned to active under a slightly different spelling of
                      his name.
                      > Dave in Falls Church VA.
                      >
                      I had a great,great, great uncle who served with the 15th Battery,
                      Indiana Light Arty. His unit surrendered at Harper's Ferry in Sept
                      1862. When his unit was paroled the entire unit was sent to
                      Indianapolis. They were held at a POW camp there and they were not
                      used as guards. From the stories that I heard growing up, the paroled
                      union soldiers were sometimes treated more poorly than the Southern
                      prisoners were treated. I guess the treatment received by POH's
                      depended on where they were held and what their rank was.

                      Al
                    • Carl Williams
                      From the postings it seems we have at least one Reb who was willing to fudge on the rules and two Yanks seeming to indicate life wasn t so good as a POH. I
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008
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                        From the postings it seems we have at least one Reb who was willing to
                        fudge on the rules and two Yanks seeming to indicate life wasn't so
                        good as a POH.

                        I have to figure it would be an exaggeration to say conditions were
                        worse or even just as bad at a POH camp as a POW camp. Since there
                        seem to be no guards, surely conditions had to be passable. You'd have
                        to expect belly-aching of some kind, just from being forced to stay put.



                        > >
                        > I had a great,great, great uncle who served with the 15th Battery,
                        > Indiana Light Arty. His unit surrendered at Harper's Ferry in Sept
                        > 1862. When his unit was paroled the entire unit was sent to
                        > Indianapolis. They were held at a POW camp there and they were not
                        > used as guards. From the stories that I heard growing up, the paroled
                        > union soldiers were sometimes treated more poorly than the Southern
                        > prisoners were treated. I guess the treatment received by POH's
                        > depended on where they were held and what their rank was.
                        >
                        > Al
                        >
                      • Harry Smeltzer
                        Yes, there were guards at the parole camps. Check out Moe s Last Full Measure for an account. Harry ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008
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                          Yes, there were guards at the parole camps.  Check out Moe’s “Last Full Measure” for an account.

                          Harry

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams
                          Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:35 AM
                          To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter

                           

                          From the postings it seems we have at least one Reb who was willing to
                          fudge on the rules and two Yanks seeming to indicate life wasn't so
                          good as a POH.

                          I have to figure it would be an exaggeration to say conditions were
                          worse or even just as bad at a POH camp as a POW camp. Since there
                          seem to be no guards, surely conditions had to be passable. You'd have
                          to expect belly-aching of some kind, just from being forced to stay put.

                          > >
                          > I had a great,great, great uncle who served with the 15th Battery,
                          > Indiana Light Arty. His unit surrendered at Harper's Ferry in Sept
                          > 1862. When his unit was paroled the entire unit was sent to
                          > Indianapolis. They were held at a POW camp there and they were not
                          > used as guards. From the stories that I heard growing up, the paroled
                          > union soldiers were sometimes treated more poorly than the Southern
                          > prisoners were treated. I guess the treatment received by POH's
                          > depended on where they were held and what their rank was.
                          >
                          > Al
                          >

                        • Carl Williams
                          Moe? Jeff Shaara?
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008
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                            Moe? Jeff Shaara?

                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Yes, there were guards at the parole camps. Check out Moe's "Last Full
                            > Measure" for an account.
                            >
                            > Harry
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Harry Smeltzer
                            No, Moe. A regimental history of the 1st MN. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams Sent:
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008
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                              No, Moe.  A regimental history of the 1st MN.

                               

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams
                              Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:59 PM
                              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter

                               

                              Moe? Jeff Shaara?

                              --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:

                              >
                              > Yes, there were guards at the parole camps. Check out Moe's "Last
                              Full
                              > Measure" for an account.
                              >
                              > Harry
                              >
                              >
                              >

                            • keeno2@aol.com
                              Was wondering when someone would bring up the POH camps. It is a very much a question of when. In the study of the USCW, when always works. There was
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008
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                                Was wondering when someone would bring up the POH camps. It is a very much a question of when. In the study of the USCW, "when"  always works. There was never one thing all the time.
                                 
                                When a parolee was sent home or sent to a POH camp is very much an important question. Somewhere in there the exchange of prisoners was seriously considered. Somewhere in there, it stopped. The man who was captured early in '62 faced an entirely different fate than the one captured a few weeks later.
                                 
                                Major difference from week to week. WHEN is the key.
                                 
                                Ken



                              • Carl Williams
                                Well, now I m confused. POH, prisoner of honor, sounded to me like what we had been talking about, i.e. the Benton Barracks camp in MO could be called a POH
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 2, 2008
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                                  Well, now I'm confused. POH, prisoner of honor, sounded to me like
                                  what we had been talking about, i.e. the Benton Barracks camp in MO
                                  could be called a POH camp. Not so?

                                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Was wondering when someone would bring up the POH camps.
                                • keeno2@aol.com
                                  Not necessarily. When there were still exchanges the early ones were sent home and called back when they were exchanged. As you might expect, many of them
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 2, 2008
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                                    Not necessarily. When there were still exchanges the early ones were sent home and called back when they were exchanged. As you might expect, many of them simply disappeared. So they were housed at an established camp from which the recall might be ensured. Later still, many were actually sent to prison camps to await exchange. And then exchanges were ended.



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