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Re: Strange letter

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  • Carl Williams
    I think you are missing something. Both Memphis and St. Louis were under US control. If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS guard, but
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
      I think you are missing something. Both Memphis and St. Louis were
      under US control. If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not
      under CS guard, but under the control of their own army, US. They were
      honor-bound to await exchange.

      From this and some other recent stuff, I am gathering that they were
      not allowed to roam at will but were still some kind of prisoner in
      this limbo. Perhaps officers were treated differently. Anybody know?

      A real good question is: did they literally have guards?? or was the
      threat of punishment after going AWOL enough to make them stick around
      where they were supposed to stay?


      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "mobile_96" <mobile_96@...> wrote:
      >

      > Would have crossed the river at a different point, since Memphis had
      > been under Union Control since June 6, '62, when it surrendered after
      > the destruction of Commodore James E. Montgomery's River Defense Fleet.
      > Chuck in IL.
      >
    • keeno2@aol.com
      In a message dated 11/20/2008 7:26:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo.com writes: If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
        In a message dated 11/20/2008 7:26:05 A.M. Central Standard Time, carlw4514@... writes:
        If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS guard, but under the control of their own army, US. They were honor-bound to await exchange.
        Brilliant. A classic example of thinking outside the box. At that time, a parole was taken seriously. You left the army until you were notified that you had been exchanged.
         
        Next question: Was St. Louis home? Or was there a facility there to maintain paroled men until their exchange?



      • Nick KURTZ
        Jefferson Barracks would be a logical place in St Louis. I know from another diary that they were kept in St Louis. I ll have to look at it again to see if
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
          Jefferson Barracks would be a logical place in St Louis. I know from
          another diary that they were kept in St Louis. I'll have to look at it
          again to see if he mentions where in St Louis. Eventually he grew tired of
          waiting, slipped onto a transport and rejoined his regiment outside of
          Vicksburg. Told his colonel he was tired of waiting, understood he could
          face death if captured again and promised not to ever be captured again. I
          would think a good colonel would send the man back rather than break a
          parole but maybe this part of the story was more bravado than truth.
          --Nick


          >From: keeno2@...
          >Reply-To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          >To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter
          >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:23:58 EST
          >
          >
          >In a message dated 11/20/2008 7:26:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,
          >carlw4514@... writes:
          >
          >If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS guard, but
          >under
          >the control of their own army, US. They were honor-bound to await
          >exchange.
          >
          >
          >
          >Brilliant. A classic example of thinking outside the box. At that time, a
          >parole was taken seriously. You left the army until you were notified that
          >you
          >had been exchanged.
          >
          >Next question: Was St. Louis home? Or was there a facility there to
          >maintain
          >paroled men until their exchange?
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        • Patricia Swan
          They were held in the Benton Barracks. The paroled soldiers had to be at a post to be exchanged. The post in St. Louis was the Benton Barracks.
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
            They were held in the Benton Barracks. The paroled soldiers had to be
            at a post to be exchanged. The post in St. Louis was the Benton Barracks.

            keeno2@... wrote:
            >
            > In a message dated 11/20/2008 7:26:05 A.M. Central Standard Time,
            > carlw4514@... writes:
            >
            > If I have this right, the paroled yankees were not under CS guard,
            > but under the control of their own army, US. They were honor-bound
            > to await exchange.
            >
            > Brilliant. A classic example of thinking outside the box. At that
            > time, a parole was taken seriously. You left the army until you were
            > notified that you had been exchanged.
            >
            > Next question: Was St. Louis home? Or was there a facility there to
            > maintain paroled men until their exchange?
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and
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            > today!*
            >
          • keeno2@aol.com
            How could I forget Jefferson Barracks! Very logical that he was sent there to await exchange. Ken **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
              How could I forget Jefferson Barracks! Very logical that he was sent there to await exchange.
               
              Ken



            • keeno2@aol.com
              I ve not heard of the Benton Barracks. If there was a facility there, it s not that far from Jefferson Barracks. For the sake of accuracy, I ll accept Benton
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
                I've not heard of the Benton Barracks. If there was a facility there, it's not that far from Jefferson Barracks. For the sake of accuracy, I'll accept Benton Barracks in that it adds to the explanation of why Strange was sent to St. Louis. (On thinking that over, I was thinking of Fenton. Whatever. It still makes sense.)
                 
                Ken



              • Patricia Swan
                Benton Barracks was named for Senator Benton. Certainly some of those paroled at Holly Springs on Dec. 20th 1862 were held at Benton. Letters were written by
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
                  Benton Barracks was named for Senator Benton. Certainly some of those
                  paroled at Holly Springs on Dec. 20th 1862 were held at Benton. Letters
                  were written by them from those barracks. However, it is possible that
                  not all were held in one location. Thus, Jefferson barracks (about
                  which I know little to nothing) may have been a holding place as well.

                  keeno2@... wrote:
                  >
                  > I've not heard of the Benton Barracks. If there was a facility there,
                  > it's not that far from Jefferson Barracks. For the sake of accuracy,
                  > I'll accept Benton Barracks in that it adds to the explanation of why
                  > Strange was sent to St. Louis. (On thinking that over, I was thinking
                  > of Fenton. Whatever. It still makes sense.)
                  >
                  > Ken
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and
                  > the things you love. *Try the new AOL.com
                  > <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001>
                  > today!*
                  >
                • James Strange
                  Thank you all - I really learned something about the honor system that prevailed even in time of war -...    This makes perfect sence since he was allowed to
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
                    Thank you all - I really learned something about the honor system that prevailed even in time of war -... 
                     
                    This makes perfect sence since he was allowed to visit with Nelson in the hospital - and that Nelson was taken to the "General" Hospital in St. Louis.  My grandfather was a stickler for always living up to your word - he said that he learned that from his father.  I know now where that came from. 
                     
                    Once again, thanks for all the help. 
                     

                    --- On Thu, 11/20/08, Patricia Swan <pbswan@...> wrote:
                    From: Patricia Swan <pbswan@...>
                    Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter
                    To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 2:20 PM

                    Benton Barracks was named for Senator Benton. Certainly some of those
                    paroled at Holly Springs on Dec. 20th 1862 were held at Benton. Letters
                    were written by them from those barracks. However, it is possible that
                    not all were held in one location. Thus, Jefferson barracks (about
                    which I know little to nothing) may have been a holding place as well.

                    keeno2@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I've not heard of the Benton Barracks. If there was a facility there,
                    > it's not that far from Jefferson Barracks. For the sake of accuracy,
                    > I'll accept Benton Barracks in that it adds to the explanation of why
                    > Strange was sent to St. Louis. (On thinking that over, I was thinking
                    > of Fenton. Whatever. It still makes sense.)
                    >
                    > Ken
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                    > *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and
                    > the things you love. *Try the new AOL.com
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                    > today!*
                    >

                  • Dave
                    My great grandfather was a union army captain who was released as a POH - parole on honor - after capture by Captain Morgan - and was sent north and trained
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 20, 2008
                      My great grandfather was a union army captain who was released as a POH - parole on honor - after capture by Captain Morgan - and was sent north and trained green troops in Baltimore until exchanged. A friend of mine has trouble doing genealogy on his great-great grandfather - a confederate - since he was captured twice and released on a POH but he immediately returned to active under a slightly different spelling of his name.
                      Dave in Falls Church VA.
                    • savage.albert
                      ... POH - parole on honor - after capture by Captain Morgan - and was sent north and trained green troops in Baltimore until exchanged. A friend of mine has
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 30, 2008
                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <dave718@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > My great grandfather was a union army captain who was released as a
                        POH - parole on honor - after capture by Captain Morgan - and was sent
                        north and trained green troops in Baltimore until exchanged. A friend
                        of mine has trouble doing genealogy on his great-great grandfather - a
                        confederate - since he was captured twice and released on a POH but he
                        immediately returned to active under a slightly different spelling of
                        his name.
                        > Dave in Falls Church VA.
                        >
                        I had a great,great, great uncle who served with the 15th Battery,
                        Indiana Light Arty. His unit surrendered at Harper's Ferry in Sept
                        1862. When his unit was paroled the entire unit was sent to
                        Indianapolis. They were held at a POW camp there and they were not
                        used as guards. From the stories that I heard growing up, the paroled
                        union soldiers were sometimes treated more poorly than the Southern
                        prisoners were treated. I guess the treatment received by POH's
                        depended on where they were held and what their rank was.

                        Al
                      • Carl Williams
                        From the postings it seems we have at least one Reb who was willing to fudge on the rules and two Yanks seeming to indicate life wasn t so good as a POH. I
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008
                          From the postings it seems we have at least one Reb who was willing to
                          fudge on the rules and two Yanks seeming to indicate life wasn't so
                          good as a POH.

                          I have to figure it would be an exaggeration to say conditions were
                          worse or even just as bad at a POH camp as a POW camp. Since there
                          seem to be no guards, surely conditions had to be passable. You'd have
                          to expect belly-aching of some kind, just from being forced to stay put.



                          > >
                          > I had a great,great, great uncle who served with the 15th Battery,
                          > Indiana Light Arty. His unit surrendered at Harper's Ferry in Sept
                          > 1862. When his unit was paroled the entire unit was sent to
                          > Indianapolis. They were held at a POW camp there and they were not
                          > used as guards. From the stories that I heard growing up, the paroled
                          > union soldiers were sometimes treated more poorly than the Southern
                          > prisoners were treated. I guess the treatment received by POH's
                          > depended on where they were held and what their rank was.
                          >
                          > Al
                          >
                        • Harry Smeltzer
                          Yes, there were guards at the parole camps. Check out Moe s Last Full Measure for an account. Harry ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008

                            Yes, there were guards at the parole camps.  Check out Moe’s “Last Full Measure” for an account.

                            Harry

                             

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams
                            Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:35 AM
                            To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter

                             

                            From the postings it seems we have at least one Reb who was willing to
                            fudge on the rules and two Yanks seeming to indicate life wasn't so
                            good as a POH.

                            I have to figure it would be an exaggeration to say conditions were
                            worse or even just as bad at a POH camp as a POW camp. Since there
                            seem to be no guards, surely conditions had to be passable. You'd have
                            to expect belly-aching of some kind, just from being forced to stay put.

                            > >
                            > I had a great,great, great uncle who served with the 15th Battery,
                            > Indiana Light Arty. His unit surrendered at Harper's Ferry in Sept
                            > 1862. When his unit was paroled the entire unit was sent to
                            > Indianapolis. They were held at a POW camp there and they were not
                            > used as guards. From the stories that I heard growing up, the paroled
                            > union soldiers were sometimes treated more poorly than the Southern
                            > prisoners were treated. I guess the treatment received by POH's
                            > depended on where they were held and what their rank was.
                            >
                            > Al
                            >

                          • Carl Williams
                            Moe? Jeff Shaara?
                            Message 13 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008
                              Moe? Jeff Shaara?

                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Yes, there were guards at the parole camps. Check out Moe's "Last Full
                              > Measure" for an account.
                              >
                              > Harry
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Harry Smeltzer
                              No, Moe. A regimental history of the 1st MN. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams Sent:
                              Message 14 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008

                                No, Moe.  A regimental history of the 1st MN.

                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams
                                Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:59 PM
                                To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Strange letter

                                 

                                Moe? Jeff Shaara?

                                --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:

                                >
                                > Yes, there were guards at the parole camps. Check out Moe's "Last
                                Full
                                > Measure" for an account.
                                >
                                > Harry
                                >
                                >
                                >

                              • keeno2@aol.com
                                Was wondering when someone would bring up the POH camps. It is a very much a question of when. In the study of the USCW, when always works. There was
                                Message 15 of 19 , Dec 1, 2008
                                  Was wondering when someone would bring up the POH camps. It is a very much a question of when. In the study of the USCW, "when"  always works. There was never one thing all the time.
                                   
                                  When a parolee was sent home or sent to a POH camp is very much an important question. Somewhere in there the exchange of prisoners was seriously considered. Somewhere in there, it stopped. The man who was captured early in '62 faced an entirely different fate than the one captured a few weeks later.
                                   
                                  Major difference from week to week. WHEN is the key.
                                   
                                  Ken



                                • Carl Williams
                                  Well, now I m confused. POH, prisoner of honor, sounded to me like what we had been talking about, i.e. the Benton Barracks camp in MO could be called a POH
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Dec 2, 2008
                                    Well, now I'm confused. POH, prisoner of honor, sounded to me like
                                    what we had been talking about, i.e. the Benton Barracks camp in MO
                                    could be called a POH camp. Not so?

                                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Was wondering when someone would bring up the POH camps.
                                  • keeno2@aol.com
                                    Not necessarily. When there were still exchanges the early ones were sent home and called back when they were exchanged. As you might expect, many of them
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Dec 2, 2008
                                      Not necessarily. When there were still exchanges the early ones were sent home and called back when they were exchanged. As you might expect, many of them simply disappeared. So they were housed at an established camp from which the recall might be ensured. Later still, many were actually sent to prison camps to await exchange. And then exchanges were ended.



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