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RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

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  • John LaPorta
    Thank you Tom  for all the information that you give freely in your posts..I wanted to ask where can you find civil war games like the one you mentioned? I am
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 11, 2008
      Thank you Tom  for all the information that you give freely in your posts.I wanted to ask where can you find civil war games like the one you mentioned? I am currently involved in the American Conquest a Divided Nation game on the internet and would like others any help appreciated.
      John ...the captain in Mississippi

      --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:
      From: Tom Mix <tmix@...>
      Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge
      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 6:06 PM

      Thanks so much, Carl, for the honest appraisal.  I think I’ll take your advice and pass on it. Bowen was an excellent General but not a Stonewall.  He did work better with others than Jackson and that speaks well of Bowen, who from readings was an excellent Division and Corps commander. It sounds like it may be better to just pick up information on him by reading books devoted to subjects where he was involved like Champion Hill which has had some fine books on it over the last several years.  

      If anyone out there board games, The Gamers “Champion Hill” is an excellent game and Bowen shines with a well deserved high rating in it.  Thanks to him and failure to get orders through I lost that battle once.  But not the next time.

      Tom

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams
      Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:58 AM
      To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroupscom
      Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

       


      Again that's "The Forgotten 'Stonewall of the West': Major General
      John Stevens Bowen," Mercer University Press, 1997, by Phillip Thomas
      Tucker.

      Tom, the author managed to write an interesting story, even though the
      writing was not good. He reminded me of a High School student who has
      to write 150 words, finds he only wrote 100, so goes back and repeats
      the same sentences in a slightly different way... no kidding. It was
      very repetitive in this way.

      I otherwise have not boned up on Bowen, other than having noted that
      he seemed to be stand out at Champion Hill. So I can't tell if
      something was wrong with what the book had to say. I get the feeling
      that the author would be capable of glossing over Bowen's flaws. After
      all he poses Bowen as a Stonewall of the West; this is not to say
      'instead of Cleburne' but a special Stonewall in the category of
      'forgotten' I guess. The sort of glorifying that the book has makes
      you recall some old hero worshipping in the Southern style.
      Nonetheless he makes a pretty good case but perhaps historians would
      differ with him in important matters. As far as recommending it, you'd
      be happy with the book if you can look over the quality of the writing
      and the hero-worshipping sort of style. Obviously many could not
      overlook these things, so I'd say I'd generally not recommend it but
      was not sorry I read it myself

      Carl

      --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
      >
      > Carl,
      >
      > As you have progressed in the book, what is your general opinion of
      it now?
      > Still highly slanted toward Bowen and lacking in some accuracy? Kind of
      > sounds like it may have lived up to your original general
      impressions as you
      > began the book.
      >
      > Tom
      >


    • Tom Mix
      The Gamers still exist but were bought my Multi Man Publishing (MMP) and are now a sub group of it. MMP is owned by Red Sox great Curt Schilling who is an avid
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 11, 2008

        The Gamers still exist but were bought my Multi Man Publishing (MMP) and are now a sub group of it. MMP is owned by Red Sox great Curt Schilling who is an avid gamer too.  (and I’m an avid Red Sox fan.)

        You can find them at MultiManPublishing.com  or multimanpublishing.com which ever works.   Click on The Gamers, then Civil War Brigade series and you’ll find all of their available games. Champion Hill is still available for $28.  It is the best ACW series I have ever played. They also have a great Napoleonic series based  on the same system.

        Good luck, if I can be any help, let me know,

        Tom

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From:
        civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John LaPorta
        Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:52 PM
        To:
        civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

         

        Thank you Tom  for all the information that you give freely in your posts.I wanted to ask where can you find civil war games like the one you mentioned? I am currently involved in the American Conquest a Divided Nation game on the internet and would like others any help appreciated.

        John ...the captain in Mississippi

        --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Tom Mix <
        tmix@insightbb. com> wrote:

        From: Tom Mix <tmix@insightbb. com>
        Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge
        To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 6:06 PM

        Thanks so much, Carl, for the honest appraisal.  I think I’ll take your advice and pass on it. Bowen was an excellent General but not a Stonewall.  He did work better with others than Jackson and that speaks well of Bowen, who from readings was an excellent Division and Corps commander. It sounds like it may be better to just pick up information on him by reading books devoted to subjects where he was involved like Champion Hill which has had some fine books on it over the last several years.  

        If anyone out there board games, The Gamers “Champion Hill” is an excellent game and Bowen shines with a well deserved high rating in it.  Thanks to him and failure to get orders through I lost that battle once.  But not the next time.

        Tom

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
        Carl Williams
        Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:58 AM
        To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroupscom
        Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

         


        Again that's "The Forgotten 'Stonewall of the West': Major General
        John Stevens Bowen," Mercer University Press, 1997, by Phillip Thomas
        Tucker.

        Tom, the author managed to write an interesting story, even though the
        writing was not good. He reminded me of a High School student who has
        to write 150 words, finds he only wrote 100, so goes back and repeats
        the same sentences in a slightly different way... no kidding. It was
        very repetitive in this way.

        I otherwise have not boned up on Bowen, other than having noted that
        he seemed to be stand out at Champion Hill. So I can't tell if
        something was wrong with what the book had to say. I get the feeling
        that the author would be capable of glossing over Bowen's flaws. After
        all he poses Bowen as a Stonewall of the West; this is not to say
        'in
        stead of Cleburne' but a special Stonewall in the category of
        'forgotten' I guess. The sort of glorifying that the book has makes
        you recall some old hero worshipping in the Southern style.
        Nonetheless he makes a pretty good case but perhaps historians would
        differ with him in important matters. As far as recommending it, you'd
        be happy with the book if you can look over the quality of the writing
        and the hero-worshipping sort of style. Obviously many could not
        overlook these things, so I'd say I'd generally not recommend it but
        was not sorry I read it myself

        Carl

        --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
        >
        > Carl,
        >
        > As you have progressed in the book, what is your general opinion of
        it now?
        > Still highly slanted toward Bowen and lacking in some accuracy? Kind of
        > sounds like it may have lived up to your original general
        impressions as you
        > began the book.
        >
        > Tom
        >

         

      • Tom Mix
        John, I seem to be having some problem getting this though. You can reach me off line at tmix@insightbb.com Tom ... From: Tom Mix [mailto:tmix@insightbb.com]
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 11, 2008

          John,

          I seem to be having some problem getting this though. You can reach me off line at tmix@...

          Tom

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Tom Mix [mailto:tmix@...]
          Sent:
          Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:15 PM
          To: 'civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com'
          Subject: FW: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at
          Big Black Bridge

           

           

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Tom Mix [mailto:tmix@...]
          Sent:
          Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:04 PM
          To: 'civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com'
          Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at
          Big Black Bridge

          John,

          The Gamers still exist but were bought my Multi Man Publishing (MMP) and are now a sub group of it. MMP is owned by Red Sox great Curt Schilling who is an avid gamer too.  (and I’m an avid Red Sox fan.)

          You can find them at MultiManPublishing.com  or multimanpublishing.com which ever works.   Click on The Gamers, then Civil War Brigade series and you’ll find all of their available games. Champion Hill is still available for $28.  It is the best ACW series I have ever played. They also have a great Napoleonic series based  on the same system.

          Good luck, if I can be any help, let me know,

          Tom

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John LaPorta
          Sent:
          Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:52 PM
          To: civilwarwest@yahoogroupscom
          Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at
          Big Black Bridge

           

          Thank you Tom  for all the information that you give freely in your posts.I wanted to ask where can you find civil war games like the one you mentioned? I am currently involved in the American Conquest a Divided Nation game on the internet and would like others any help appreciated.

          John ...the captain in Mississippi

          --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Tom Mix <tmix@insightbb. com> wrote:

          From: Tom Mix <tmix@insightbb. com>
          Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at
          Big Black Bridge
          To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
          Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 6:06 PM

          Thanks so much, Carl, for the honest appraisal.  I think I’ll take your advice and pass on it. Bowen was an excellent General but not a Stonewall.  He did work better with others than Jackson and that speaks well of Bowen, who from readings was an excellent Division and Corps commander. It sounds like it may be better to just pick up information on him by reading books devoted to subjects where he was involved like Champion Hill which has had some fine books on it over the last several years.  

          If anyone out there board games, The Gamers “Champion Hill” is an excellent game and Bowen shines with a well deserved high rating in it.  Thanks to him and failure to get orders through I lost that battle once.  But not the next time.

          Tom

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams
          Sent:
          Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:58 AM
          To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroupscom
          Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at
          Big Black Bridge

           


          Again that's "The Forgotten 'Stonewall of the West': Major General
          John Stevens Bowen,"
          Mercer University Press, 1997, by Phillip Thomas
          Tucker.

          Tom, the author managed to write an interesting story, even though the
          writing was not good. He reminded me of a High School student who has
          to write 150 words, finds he only wrote 100, so goes back and repeats
          the same sentences in a slightly different way... no kidding. It was
          very repetitive in this way.

          I otherwise have not boned up on Bowen, other than having noted that
          he seemed to be stand out at Champion Hill. So I can't tell if
          something was wrong with what the book had to say. I get the feeling
          that the author would be capable of glossing over Bowen's flaws. After
          all he poses Bowen as a Stonewall of the West; this is not to say
          'instead of Cleburne' but a special Stonewall in the category of
          'forgotten' I guess. The sort of glorifying that the book has makes
          you recall some old hero worshipping in the Southern style.
          Nonetheless he makes a pretty good case but perhaps historians would
          differ with him in important matters. As far as recommending it, you'd
          be happy with the book if you can look over the quality of the writing
          and the hero-worshipping sort of style. Obviously many could not
          overlook these things, so I'd say I'd generally not recommend it but
          was not sorry I read it myself

          Carl

          --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
          >
          > Carl,
          >
          > As you have progressed in the book, what is your general opinion of
          it now?
          > Still highly slanted toward Bowen and lacking in some accuracy? Kind of
          > sounds like it may have lived up to your original general
          impressions as you
          > began the book.
          >
          > Tom
          >

           

        • Tom Mix
          Absolutely, Bowen virtually marched right past McClernand s front to reinforce Champion Hill with McClernand doing nothing at all about it. He may have taken
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 11, 2008

            Absolutely, Bowen virtually marched right past McClernand’s front to reinforce Champion Hill with McClernand doing nothing at all about it.  He may have taken a photo or two, sold a tourist map to the Rebs or asked for their vote for not bothering them in their travels.

            Tom

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams
            Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:52 AM
            To: civilwarwest@yahoogroupscom
            Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

             

            I'm thinking McClernand is sorely missed at about the same time Bowen
            counter-attacks. That sort of timing can make an impression.

            --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@ ...>
            wrote:
            [...]

            >
            > So apparently, Carr was operating independently of McClernand for
            > this period by order of Grant, who possibly was miffed over
            > McClernand's failure to show up at Champion Hill.
            >

          • keeno2@aol.com
            Being a Red Sox fan, anything you say can and will be used against you. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to counsel and, if you can t
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 11, 2008
              Being a Red Sox fan, anything you say can and will be used against you. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to counsel and, if you can't afford it, counsel will be provided to you at no cost.
               
              Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!
               
              ken



            • DORR64OVI@aol.com
              In a message dated 9/11/2008 10:04:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, keeno2@aol.com writes: Aren t the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul! The Red Sox comprise
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 11, 2008
                In a message dated 9/11/2008 10:04:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, keeno2@... writes:
                Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!
                The Red Sox comprise an entire Nation...where have you been?
                 
                Kent Dorr
                Tribe fan



              • Tom Mix
                Ken, Well, I guess I ll have to plead guilty to all charges. Is my sentence to set in side the Green Monster with the rats? Tom ... From:
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 11, 2008

                  Ken,

                  Well, I guess I’ll have to plead guilty to all charges.  Is my sentence to set in side the Green Monster with the rats?

                  Tom

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of keeno2@...
                  Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:04 PM
                  To: civilwarwest@yahoogroupscom
                  Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

                   

                  Being a Red Sox fan, anything you say can and will be used against you. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to counsel and, if you can't afford it, counsel will be provided to you at no cost.

                   

                  Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!

                   

                  ken



                • Tom Mix
                  Great point!!! I have my defense council. And I am a charter member of Red Sox Nation too. Thanks, Kent! Tom The Tribe is finally playing better. Cy Lee has
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 11, 2008

                    Great point!!! I have my defense council. And I am a charter member of Red Sox Nation too.

                    Thanks, Kent!

                    Tom

                     

                    The Tribe is finally playing better. “Cy” Lee has saved their season from being a total loss.

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DORR64OVI@...
                    Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:15 PM
                    To: civilwarwest@yahoogroupscom
                    Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

                     

                    In a message dated 9/11/2008 10:04:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, keeno2@... writes:

                    Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!

                    The Red Sox comprise an entire Nation...where have you been?

                     

                    Kent Dorr

                    Tribe fan



                  • John LaPorta
                    Did you say White Sox or Red Sox.......you are a White Sox fan like me right? anyway Chicago is further west . John (the captain in Mississippi) ... From:
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 13, 2008
                      Did you say White Sox or Red Sox.......you are a White Sox fan like me right?
                      anyway Chicago is further west .
                      John (the captain in Mississippi)

                      --- On Thu, 9/11/08, keeno2@... <keeno2@...> wrote:
                      From: keeno2@... <keeno2@...>
                      Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 9:03 PM

                      Being a Red Sox fan, anything you say can and will be used against you. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to counsel and, if you can't afford it, counsel will be provided to you at no cost.
                       
                      Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!
                       
                      ken




                    • John LaPorta
                      A nation of what??? ... From: DORR64OVI@aol.com Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 13, 2008
                        A nation of what???

                        --- On Thu, 9/11/08, DORR64OVI@... <DORR64OVI@...> wrote:
                        From: DORR64OVI@... <DORR64OVI@...>
                        Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge
                        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 9:15 PM

                        In a message dated 9/11/2008 10:04:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, keeno2@... writes:
                        Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!
                        The Red Sox comprise an entire Nation...where have you been?
                         
                        Kent Dorr
                        Tribe fan




                      • John LaPorta
                        LOL you guys are funny ... From: Tom Mix Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com Date:
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 13, 2008
                          LOL you guys are funny

                          --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:
                          From: Tom Mix <tmix@...>
                          Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge
                          To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 10:17 PM

                          Ken,

                          Well, I guess I’ll have to plead guilty to all charges.  Is my sentence to set in side the Green Monster with the rats?

                          Tom

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of keeno2@...
                          Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:04 PM
                          To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroupscom
                          Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

                           

                          Being a Red Sox fan, anything you say can and will be used against you. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to counsel and, if you can't afford it, counsel will be provided to you at no cost.

                           

                          Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!

                           

                          ken




                        • John LaPorta
                           GO BEARS!!!!!! ... From: Tom Mix Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com Date:
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 13, 2008
                             GO BEARS!!!!!!

                            --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:
                            From: Tom Mix <tmix@...>
                            Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge
                            To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 10:20 PM

                            Great point!!! I have my defense council. And I am a charter member of Red Sox Nation too.

                            Thanks, Kent!

                            Tom

                             

                            The Tribe is finally playing better. “Cy” Lee has saved their season from being a total loss..

                             

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of DORR64OVI@aol. com
                            Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:15 PM
                            To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroupscom
                            Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

                             

                            In a message dated 9/11/2008 10:04:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, keeno2@... writes:

                            Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!

                            The Red Sox comprise an entire Nation...where have you been?

                             

                            Kent Dorr

                            Tribe fan




                          • Tom Mix
                            RED Sox ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John LaPorta Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:42 PM To:
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 14, 2008

                              RED Sox

                               

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John LaPorta
                              Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:42 PM
                              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroupscom
                              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

                               

                              Did you say White Sox or Red Sox.......you are a White Sox fan like me right?

                              anyway Chicago is further west ..

                              John (the captain in Mississippi)

                              --- On Thu, 9/11/08, keeno2@... <keeno2@...> wrote:

                              From: keeno2@... <keeno2@...>
                              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge
                              To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
                              Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 9:03 PM

                              Being a Red Sox fan, anything you say can and will be used against you. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to counsel and, if you can't afford it, counsel will be provided to you at no cost.

                               

                              Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!

                               

                              ken



                               

                            • Tom Mix
                              Loyal, devoted, fanatical and perhaps a bit pathetic Boston Red Sox fans!! ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 14, 2008

                                Loyal, devoted, fanatical and perhaps a bit pathetic Boston Red Sox fans!!

                                 

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John LaPorta
                                Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 11:43 PM
                                To: civilwarwest@yahoogroupscom
                                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge

                                 

                                A nation of what???

                                --- On Thu, 9/11/08, DORR64OVI@aol. com <DORR64OVI@aol. com> wrote:

                                From: DORR64OVI@aol. com <DORR64OVI@aol. com>
                                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Bowen at Big Black Bridge
                                To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
                                Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 9:15 PM

                                In a message dated 9/11/2008 10:04:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, keeno2@... writes:

                                Aren't the Red Sox in the Eastern Theater? Foul!

                                The Red Sox comprise an entire Nation...where have you been?

                                 

                                Kent Dorr

                                Tribe fan



                                 

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