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what constitutes the "western theater"

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  • Troy
    im currently reading the american Iliad and they reference the western theater as being chickamauga and chatanooga battles.I guess i never thought of these
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 9, 2008
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      im currently reading "the american Iliad" and they reference the
      western theater as being chickamauga and chatanooga battles.I guess i
      never thought of these as such. am i insane? maybe i dont knwo what
      constitutes the western theater, is there a defined boundry? i always
      thought of the western theater as: western tenessee- Shiloh, maybe
      Nashville and Stones River, Mississippi campaigns obviously Arkansas
      and Missouri campagins and even the Far western campaigns in Texas and
      Arizona
      i spose there is a degree of interpretation
      thanx
    • keeno2@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/9/2008 11:58:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, cav1848@msn.com writes: i spose there is a degree of interpretation The Western Theater is
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 9, 2008
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        In a message dated 2/9/2008 11:58:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, cav1848@... writes:
        i spose there is a degree of interpretation
        The "Western" Theater is most anywhere Lee was not involved. It can be split further by calling some of it Trans-Mississippi. Thus, Sherman's conflict with Johnston near Bentonville, NC, is still considered western -- Lee wasn't there. Gets a bit confusing at times, but these are the rules of the board.
         



      • Carl Williams
        not just the rules of the board, but I think historians in general have referred to the battles of GA/TN etc, etc as Western Theater. Not the West as we think
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 10, 2008
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          not just the rules of the board, but I think historians in general
          have referred to the battles of GA/TN etc, etc as Western Theater. Not
          the West as we think of it today, of course.

          As far as actions in NC, SC, etc perhaps those aren't properly
          considered Western Theater but it is sure natural for us to be
          discussing them as a continuation of AotC/AotT etc and even the CS AoT
          activities. But, point of fact, as you note we have a pretty free hand
          here in this discussion group as anyone can discover going to the home
          page. I certainly have discussed plenty of trans-miss stuff and also
          have an interest in Charleston at all stages, and have freely
          discussed it with no objections from moderators.

          > The "Western" Theater is most anywhere Lee was not involved. It can
          be split
          > further by calling some of it Trans-Mississippi. Thus, Sherman's
          conflict
          > with Johnston near Bentonville, NC, is still considered western --
          Lee wasn't
          > there. Gets a bit confusing at times, but these are the rules of the
          board.
          >
        • Troy
          ok yeah thanx i spose i did knwo that but wanted soem interpretation as i generally considered western to be as i mentioned, and it is odd to think of GA as
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 10, 2008
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            ok yeah thanx i spose i did knwo that but wanted soem interpretation
            as i generally considered western to be as i mentioned, and it is odd
            to think of GA as "western"
            and yeah charleston is interesting

            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > not just the rules of the board, but I think historians in general
            > have referred to the battles of GA/TN etc, etc as Western Theater.
            Not
            > the West as we think of it today, of course.
            >
            > As far as actions in NC, SC, etc perhaps those aren't properly
            > considered Western Theater but it is sure natural for us to be
            > discussing them as a continuation of AotC/AotT etc and even the CS
            AoT
            > activities. But, point of fact, as you note we have a pretty free
            hand
            > here in this discussion group as anyone can discover going to the
            home
            > page. I certainly have discussed plenty of trans-miss stuff and also
            > have an interest in Charleston at all stages, and have freely
            > discussed it with no objections from moderators.
            >
            > > The "Western" Theater is most anywhere Lee was not involved. It
            can
            > be split
            > > further by calling some of it Trans-Mississippi. Thus, Sherman's
            > conflict
            > > with Johnston near Bentonville, NC, is still considered western --
            > Lee wasn't
            > > there. Gets a bit confusing at times, but these are the rules of
            the
            > board.
            > >
            >
          • Art Bagley
            ... interpretation ... odd ... Re: what constitutes the western theater ... interpretation ... odd ... Re: what constitutes the western theater ...
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 18, 2008
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              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Troy" <cav1848@...> wrote:
              >
              > ok yeah thanx i spose i did knwo that but wanted soem
              interpretation
              > as i generally considered western to be as i mentioned, and it is
              odd
              > to think of GA as "western"
              > and yeah charleston is interesting
              >
              Re: what constitutes the "western theater"


              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Troy" <cav1848@...> wrote:
              >
              > ok yeah thanx i spose i did knwo that but wanted soem
              interpretation
              > as i generally considered western to be as i mentioned, and it is
              odd
              > to think of GA as "western"
              > and yeah charleston is interesting
              >
              Re: what constitutes the "western theater"


              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Troy" <cav1848@...> wrote:
              >
              > ok yeah thanx i spose i did knwo that but wanted soem
              interpretation
              > as i generally considered western to be as i mentioned, and it is
              odd
              > to think of GA as "western"
              > and yeah charleston is interesting
              >
              Hey there, Troy...

              Maybe what you have in mind is the Trans-Mississippi West, all the
              way
              out to New Mexico and Arizona Territories -- Glorietta Pass, Palmito
              Ranch, Kirby Smith's Kingdom, even north to Wilson's Creek, Pea
              Ridge,
              Honey Springs, the Red River Campaign, Pleasant Hill/Mansfield, and
              more.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-
              Mississippi_Theater_of_the_American_Civil_War

              Sorry, you'll have to cut-n-paste that url as there's not enough
              room on one line in this window for it along with the [url] command.

              To my way of thinking, it's the armies doing the fighting that
              determine eastern/western/whaterver theater.

              ArtorBart
            • gnrljejohnston
              ... As far as the Union is concerned, the definite description of the Western Theater can be found in the OR s which can be found on line. Look em up
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 19, 2008
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                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Art Bagley" <abagley@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Troy" <cav1848@> wrote:
                > >
                > > ok yeah thanx i spose i did knwo that but wanted soem
                > interpretation
                > > as i generally considered western to be as i mentioned, and it is
                > odd
                > > to think of GA as "western"
                > > and yeah charleston is interesting
                > >
                > Re: what constitutes the "western theater"
                >

                As far as the Union is concerned, the definite description of the
                Western Theater can be found in the OR's which can be found on line.
                Look em up
              • oneplez
                ... and ... At the time of the Civil War the Western theater was generally considered anything west of the Alleghenies and east of the Mississippi. The far
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 2, 2008
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                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Troy" <cav1848@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > im currently reading "the american Iliad" and they reference the
                  > western theater as being chickamauga and chatanooga battles.I guess i
                  > never thought of these as such. am i insane? maybe i dont knwo what
                  > constitutes the western theater, is there a defined boundry? i always
                  > thought of the western theater as: western tenessee- Shiloh, maybe
                  > Nashville and Stones River, Mississippi campaigns obviously Arkansas
                  > and Missouri campagins and even the Far western campaigns in Texas
                  and
                  > Arizona
                  > i spose there is a degree of interpretation
                  > thanx
                  >

                  At the time of the Civil War the Western theater was generally
                  considered anything west of the Alleghenies and east of the
                  Mississippi. The far west was generally considered west of the
                  Mississippi up to and including California and was called "Trans
                  Mississippi."


                  Don
                • Carl Williams
                  this may come from being a wargamer, but I have a concept that the Far West was basically what we now call the West and the Trans Mississippi was Missouri,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 3, 2008
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                    this may come from being a wargamer, but I have a concept that the
                    "Far West" was basically what we now call the "West" and the Trans
                    Mississippi was Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Indian Territory
                    (Okla.) and parts of Texas. So a F.W. action would be, say, Glorietta
                    Pass, while Wilson's Creek was in the Trans-miss. Or was there no such
                    distinction?


                    > At the time of the Civil War the Western theater was generally
                    > considered anything west of the Alleghenies and east of the
                    > Mississippi. The far west was generally considered west of the
                    > Mississippi up to and including California and was called "Trans
                    > Mississippi."
                    >
                    >
                    > Don
                    >
                  • Ronald black
                    Actually, the areas were divided quite clearly. West of the Mississippi River was the Trans-Mississippi, also called the far west. The west was the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 3, 2008
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                      Actually, the areas were divided quite clearly.  West of the Mississippi River was the Trans-Mississippi, also called the far west.  The west was the Mississippi River to the Alleghenies.  This clear distinction of regions became clouded when, in 1864, the fighting arrived in Georgia.  This area was now part of the west with the Army of Tennessee operating in Georgia and South Carolina.  At this time of the war, did it really matter what they were called?
                      Ron
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:11 AM
                      Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: what constitutes the "western theater"

                      this may come from being a wargamer, but I have a concept that the
                      "Far West" was basically what we now call the "West" and the Trans
                      Mississippi was Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, Indian Territory
                      (Okla.) and parts of Texas. So a F.W. action would be, say, Glorietta
                      Pass, while Wilson's Creek was in the Trans-miss. Or was there no such
                      distinction?

                       
                      .


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                    • keeno2@aol.com
                      I use Shotgun s definition: Anything involving Lee and what would become the Army of Northern Virginia is Eastern Theater. Anything not involving same was
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 3, 2008
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                        I use Shotgun's definition: Anything involving Lee and what would become the Army of Northern Virginia is Eastern Theater. Anything not involving same was Western. "Western," for purposes of this board, can also be subdivided into Trans-Mississippi and Far West, but they're still Western.
                         
                        The definition helps dispel the confusion introduced by Sherman's actions. Neither Lee nor his army was involved; therefore it was Western Theater.
                         
                        ken




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                      • Carl Williams
                        I agree. But outside this forum, these terms mean something to historians, and meant something during the ACW. I am also interested in that. ... become the
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 3, 2008
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                          I agree. But outside this forum, these terms mean something to
                          historians, and meant something during the ACW. I am also interested
                          in that.

                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                          >
                          > I use Shotgun's definition: Anything involving Lee and what would
                          become the
                          > Army of Northern Virginia is Eastern Theater. Anything not involving
                          same
                          > was Western. "Western," for purposes of this board
                          ...
                        • Dick Weeks
                          This question often comes up in this forum. The reason why I defined it the way I did is so all of us would be singing from the same sheet of music and there
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 3, 2008
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                            This question often comes up in this forum.  The reason why I defined it the way I did is so all of us would be singing from the same sheet of music and there would be no mistaking what was acceptable for discussion.  In reality for purposes of organizing the Official Records there were five theaters of operation.  If you want to get a clear definition of each take a look at the "National Archives Guide Index, Volume 1, Section D--The Breakdown of Series I By Theaters of Operation".  Concerning the Western Theater it says:

                            Main Western Theater:
                            Kentucky, except for some operations west of the Tennessee River, Aug. 2--Nov. 7, 1861, that were immediately connected with operations in Missouri. Southwest Virginia from Nov. 19, 1861. Tennessee, Alabama, and Mississippi. Louisiana until Dec. 31, 1863.
                            Western Florida from Sept. 1, 1861, to Dec. 31, 1863, and from Jan. 1, 1865.  Northern Georgia from Aug. 11, 1863 (nominally, actually from July 1, 1861), Central Georgia from Jan. 1, 1865. Western North Carolina from about Sept. 16, 1863. Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio on occasion. Operations in Arkansas connected with Union movements against and siege of Vicksburg, Miss., Dec. 20, 1862-July 4, 1863.

                            As I said, the definitions contained in the Index were used for organizing the Official Records.  As in most things concerning the Civil War the more you dig, the more layers you find :-)  I hope this helps a little.
                             
                            I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                            Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                            http://www.civilwarhome.com
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                            Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:18 AM
                            Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: what constitutes the "western theater"

                            >I agree. But outside this forum, these terms mean something to
                            > historians, and meant something during the ACW. I am also interested
                            > in that.
                            >
                            > --- In
                            civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                            >>
                            >> I use Shotgun's definition: Anything involving Lee and what would
                            > become  the
                            >> Army of Northern Virginia is Eastern Theater. Anything not involving
                            > same 
                            >> was Western. "Western," for purposes of this board
                            > ...
                            >
                            >
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