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Re: [civilwarwest] Famed Brigades

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  • NPeters102@aol.com
    In a message dated 7/8/2007 11:38:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, SDE80@aol.com writes: The Texas Brigade is doubtless Hood s Texas Brigade, which fought in the
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 8 9:30 AM
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      In a message dated 7/8/2007 11:38:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, SDE80@... writes:
      The Texas Brigade is doubtless Hood's Texas Brigade, which fought in the east.
      Hays Lousiana Tigers fought in the east, as did Lawton's, Gregg's, and Rodes' Brigades.
      The First Missouri Brigade was a west, as was Liddell's Brigade.  I'd add Strahl's Brigade.
       
      Sam et al,
       
      How about Shelby's Iron Brigade?
       
      Respectfully,

      Mike Peters
      npeters102@...




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    • DORR64OVI@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/8/2007 10:15:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, carlw4514@yahoo.com writes: Thanks, Lee, for those corrections. The brigades you mention,
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 8 10:33 AM
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        In a message dated 7/8/2007 10:15:47 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, carlw4514@... writes:
        Thanks, Lee, for those corrections.
        The brigades you mention, Wilder's Lightning Brigade I know is
        US/west, but the rest? US? CS? east? west?
        Harkers Brigade is Army of the Cumberland, Western Theater
         
         
        Kent Dorr




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      • Tony Gunter
        ... The problem with brigades in the west is that they were re-organized frequently, and thus their identity was slightly different in every battle.
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 8 1:41 PM
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          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
          wrote:
          > [snip]

          The problem with brigades in the west is that they were re-organized
          frequently, and thus their identity was slightly different in every
          battle.
        • SDE80@aol.com
          In a message dated 7/8/2007 12:35:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, NPeters102@aol.com writes: How about Shelby s Iron Brigade? I have to confess I have little
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 8 3:00 PM
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            In a message dated 7/8/2007 12:35:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, NPeters102@... writes:
            How about Shelby's Iron Brigade?
            I have to confess I have little knowledge of it, although I have been reading up on his march to Mexico lately.
             
            Sam Elliott




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          • DORR64OVI@aol.com
            In a message dated 7/8/2007 4:42:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tony_gunter@yahoo.com writes: The problem with brigades in the west is that they were
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 8 5:41 PM
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              In a message dated 7/8/2007 4:42:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tony_gunter@... writes:
              The problem with brigades in the west is that they were re-organized
              frequently, and thus their identity was slightly different in every
              battle.
              In the Army of the Ohio, Buell had the brigades reorganized to break up those made up of only one state in order to reduce the undue influence of state governors.
               
              Kent Dorr




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            • thardy9@juno.com
              Here is my input on these brigades: First Vermont Brigade: East - VI Corps ... Iron Brigade: East - I Corps, originally commanded by John Gibbon ... Irish
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 9 8:13 AM
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                Here is my input on these brigades:

                First Vermont Brigade:  East - VI Corps

                >
                Iron Brigade:  East - I Corps, originally commanded by John Gibbon

                Irish Brigade:  East - II Corps, originally commanded by Thomas Meagher

                First New Jersey Brigade:  East, III Corps, originally commanded by Phil Kearny (?)

                Excelsior Brigade:  East, III Corps, originally commanded by Dan Sickles

                Philadelphia Brigade:  East, II Corps, held the Angle at Gettysburg under Alexander Webb

                Belknap's Iowa Brigade:  West

                Custer's Michigan Cavalry Brigade:  East, Cavalry Corps

                Heckman's 'Star' Brigade [?] ?

                Steedman's Brigade:  West, XIV Corps, originally commanded by George Thomas
                >
                > And for the Confederacy:

                Texas Brigade:  East, DH Hill's Division, commanded by John Hood

                Stonewall Brigade:  East, Jackson's Division, originally commanded by Stonewall Jackson

                Orphan Brigade:  West, Army of Tennessee, originally commanded by John Breckinridge (?)

                Stuart's Virginia Cavalry Brigade: East, later expanded into Division, then Cav Corps

                Hay's Louisiana Tigers:  East, originally commanded by Richard Taylor

                Lawton's Georgia Brigade:  East, Jackson's Corps, originally commanded by AR Lawton

                First Missouri Brigade:  West, originally commanded by Sterling Price

                Gregg's South Carolina Brigade:  East, Longstreet's Corps, originally commanded by Maxcy Gregg, held the Railroad Cut at Second Manassas

                Rodes' Alabama Brigade:  East, Jackson's Corps, originally commanded by Robert Rodes

                Liddel's Arkansas Brigade:  West, originally commanded by St John Liddell

                Harker's Brigade:  West, XXI Corps, commanded by Charles Harker

                Granbury's Texas Brigade:  West, commanded by Hiram Granbury

                Wilder's Lightning Brigade:  West, XIV Corps, commanded by John Wilder, and converted into mounted infantry after Murfreesboro

                Tom Hardy, Kansas City



                 



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              • Carl Williams
                Thanks. Seems that Cleburne never commanded a famed brigade? A little surprising, or is brigade just not a fit? IIRC a brigade is a grouping of regiments.
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 10 6:44 AM
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                  Thanks.
                  Seems that Cleburne never commanded a famed brigade? A little
                  surprising, or is "brigade" just not a fit? IIRC a brigade is a
                  grouping of regiments.

                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "thardy9@..." <thardy9@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Here is my input on these brigades:
                • William H Keene
                  ... Was the brigade he commanded ever considered famed ?
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 10 8:15 AM
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                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks.
                    > Seems that Cleburne never commanded a famed brigade?

                    Was the brigade he commanded ever considered 'famed'?
                  • Carl Williams
                    ... I guess we know Cleburne commanded something famed ... seems brigades were commmanded but is it fair to say fame came later as major general? at that
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 10 2:13 PM
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                      > > Seems that Cleburne never commanded a famed brigade?
                      >
                      > Was the brigade he commanded ever considered 'famed'?
                      >


                      I guess we know Cleburne commanded something "famed" ... seems
                      brigades were commmanded but is it fair to say fame came later as
                      major general? at that point commanding something bigger?

                      from:
                      http://www.civilwarhome.com/clebunbi.htm

                      ... He joined the Confederacy, and his military assignments included:
                      captain, Company F, lst Arkansas State Troops (early 1861); colonel,
                      lst Arkansas State Troops (early 1861); colonel, 15th Arkansas
                      (designation change July 23, 1861); commanding 2nd Brigade, lst
                      (Hardee's) Division, Army of Central Kentucky, Department #2 (fall
                      1861 - March 29, 1862); commanding 2nd Brigade, Hardee's Division,
                      Army of the Mississippi July 2 - August 15, 1862); commanding 2nd
                      Brigade, Buckner's Division, Left Wing, Army of the Mississippi
                      (August 15-30, October - October 8, and October - November 20, 1862);
                      commanding 2nd Brigade, Buckner's Division, Hardee's-Breckinridge's
                      Corps, Army of Tennessee (November 20 - December 1862); major general,
                      CSA (December 20, 1862 to rank from the 13th); commanding the division
                      (December 1862 - November 30, 1863); commanding division, Hardee's
                      (Polk's old)- Cheatham's Corps, Army of Tennessee (November 30, 1863 -
                      January 1864, January-August 3 1, and September 2 - November 30,
                      1864); and commanding the corps (August 31 - September 2, 1864).
                    • Tom Mix
                      That is interesting. Especially when some historians and writers refer to his units as Confederated Shock Troops. A term that I don t think was in vogue in
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 10 3:09 PM
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                        That is interesting.

                        Especially when some historians and writers refer to his units as Confederated Shock Troops.  A term that I don’t think was in vogue in the 1860’s. 

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl Williams
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:44 AM
                        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Famed Brigades

                         

                        Thanks.
                        Seems that Cleburne never commanded a famed brigade? A little
                        surprising, or is "brigade" just not a fit? IIRC a brigade is a
                        grouping of regiments.

                        --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "thardy9@... " <thardy9@... > wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Here is my input on these brigades:

                      • Ray Todd Knight
                        ... Since my 4th g-grandfather fought in Cleburne s Brigade (24th TN Infantry) at Shiloh *I* consider it a famous brigade, but he was quickly promoted upwards
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 10 5:36 PM
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                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks.
                          > Seems that Cleburne never commanded a famed brigade? A little
                          > surprising, or is "brigade" just not a fit? IIRC a brigade is a
                          > grouping of regiments.
                          >

                          Since my 4th g-grandfather fought in Cleburne's Brigade (24th TN
                          Infantry) at Shiloh *I* consider it a famous brigade, but he was
                          quickly promoted upwards so he didn't command a brigade for long.

                          Ray
                        • Ray Todd Knight
                          ... John Breckinridge (?) The Orphans were originally commanded by Simon Buckner, then John C Breckinridge, Robert Hanson, Ben Hardin Helm, then Joseph H
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 10 5:44 PM
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                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "thardy9@..." <thardy9@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > Orphan Brigade: West, Army of Tennessee, originally commanded by
                            John Breckinridge (?)

                            The Orphans were originally commanded by Simon Buckner, then John C
                            Breckinridge, Robert Hanson, Ben Hardin Helm, then Joseph H Lewis.

                            Ray
                          • William H Keene
                            ... One of the brigades of Celburne s Division [for which he gained fame] was included in the list previously presented: Liddel s Arkansas Brigade
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 10 5:59 PM
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                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > That is interesting.
                              >
                              > Especially when some historians and writers refer to his units as
                              > Confederated Shock Troops ...

                              One of the brigades of Celburne's Division [for which he gained fame]
                              was included in the list previously presented: Liddel's Arkansas
                              Brigade
                            • SDE80@aol.com
                              In a message dated 7/10/2007 8:38:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rayknight@comcast.net writes: Since my 4th g-grandfather fought in Cleburne s Brigade (24th TN
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 10 6:33 PM
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                                In a message dated 7/10/2007 8:38:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rayknight@... writes:
                                Since my 4th g-grandfather fought in Cleburne's Brigade (24th TN
                                Infantry) at Shiloh *I* consider it a famous brigade, but he was
                                quickly promoted upwards so he didn't command a brigade for long.
                                The 24th spent most of the war in Stewart's/Strahl's Tennessee brigade, which I deem to be an elite brigade.
                                 
                                Sam Elliott




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                              • Tony Gunter
                                ... brigade, which ... My GGGG Grandfather spent the war in Chalmer s Brigade ... couldn t that be considered a(n) (in)famous brigade?
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jul 10 8:07 PM
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                                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, SDE80@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 7/10/2007 8:38:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                  > rayknight@... writes:
                                  >
                                  > Since my 4th g-grandfather fought in Cleburne's Brigade (24th TN
                                  > Infantry) at Shiloh *I* consider it a famous brigade, but he was
                                  > quickly promoted upwards so he didn't command a brigade for long.
                                  >
                                  > The 24th spent most of the war in Stewart's/Strahl's Tennessee
                                  brigade, which
                                  > I deem to be an elite brigade.
                                  >
                                  > Sam Elliott
                                  >

                                  My GGGG Grandfather spent the war in Chalmer's Brigade ... couldn't
                                  that be considered a(n) (in)famous brigade?

                                  :)
                                • Ronald black
                                  Chalmers mostly commanded cavalry brigades in the confederate west. Most of these brigades mentioned have been infantry brigades. However, Brig. Gen. James
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jul 11 5:46 AM
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                                    Chalmers mostly commanded cavalry brigades in the confederate west.  Most of these brigades mentioned have been infantry brigades.  However, Brig. Gen. James R. Chalmers commanded an infantry brigade in Gen. Withers' division at the battle of Shiloh.  The performance of his brigade can be argued to have been if not, the best brigade during that two day battle.  He kept his brigade together and in advance on the confederate right.  At night fall, his brigade was still together and the most advanced brigade on the rebel right.  During the dark night hours, he kept the brigade under his control despite moving in the dark under the gunboat fire.  During this time, Jackson's brigade was doing the same movements as Chalmers and completely fell apart.  Gen Jackson bivouacked on the Shiloh Church plateau with only Girardey's battery present and did not appear on the front line on the second day.  Gen Chalmers camped in the Cloud field with his entire brigade present except Gage's battery which was sent to the rear and was a leading combat officer on the second day.  Next morning, Chalmers was surprised as was the entire rebel army, when Buell advanced but he was able to present his entire brigade to Buell.  After brief skirmishing, his brigade retired back down the River road because it was flanked and much to exposed to the union troops.  He continued the fighting on Monday, April 7th in an excellent manner.  Chalmers is my choice as "Best Confederate Brigade at Shiloh".  Chalmers would have advanced in rank and position if he stayed in the infantry, as least a corps commander.
                                     
                                    Ron
                                     
                                    -- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 11:07 PM
                                    Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Famed Brigades

                                    --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, SDE80@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > In a message dated 7/10/2007 8:38:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    > rayknight@.. . writes:
                                    >
                                    > Since my 4th g-grandfather fought in Cleburne's Brigade (24th TN
                                    > Infantry) at Shiloh *I* consider it a famous brigade, but he was
                                    > quickly promoted upwards so he didn't command a brigade for long.
                                    >
                                    > The 24th spent most of the war in Stewart's/Strahl' s Tennessee
                                    brigade, which
                                    > I deem to be an elite brigade.
                                    >
                                    > Sam Elliott
                                    >

                                    My GGGG Grandfather spent the war in Chalmer's Brigade ... couldn't
                                    that be considered a(n) (in)famous brigade?

                                    :)


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                                  • SDE80@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 7/11/2007 8:47:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Well, I wouldn t get that enthusiastic . He also commanded an infantry brigade at
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 11 5:59 AM
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                                      In a message dated 7/11/2007 8:47:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rblack0981@... writes:

                                      Chalmers would have advanced in rank and position if he stayed in the infantry, as least a corps commander.


                                      Well, I wouldn't get that enthusiastic <g>.  He also commanded an infantry brigade at Murfreesboro.  

                                      Sam Elliott



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                                    • gnrljejohnston
                                      ... This brigade is not famous, but its history could be the history of the Army of the Tennessee. It is one of the unsung brigades of the war. Formed as the
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jul 11 10:06 AM
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                                        > >
                                        >
                                        > My GGGG Grandfather spent the war in Chalmer's Brigade ... couldn't
                                        > that be considered a(n) (in)famous brigade?

                                        This brigade is not famous, but its history could be the history of
                                        the Army of the Tennessee. It is one of the unsung brigades of the
                                        war. Formed as the First Brigade, Fifth Division in March 1862 made
                                        up by the 6th Iowa, 46th Ohio, and the 40th Illinois, these three
                                        regiments fought together for the most part of the war, and marched
                                        down Pennsylvania Avenue in the Grand Review together. The brigade
                                        changed its designations many times, but these three regiments along
                                        with a few others that joined the brigade, stuck it out one might say
                                        from the birth of the AOTT to its demise in July 1865.

                                        These regiments served four years, and was actively engaged in the
                                        two days' battle at Shiloh, Tenn.; siege of Corinth, Miss.; siege of
                                        Vicksburg, Miss.; Jackson, Miss.; battle of Mission Ridge, Tenn.(lead
                                        attackers on Tunnel Hill); Resaca Ga.;New Hope Church, Ga.; Black
                                        Jack Knob, Ga.; Kenesaw Mountain, Ga.; Atlanta, Ga.; Ezra Chapel,
                                        Ga.; Jonesboro, Ga.; Griswoldville, Ga.; siege of Savannah, Ga.;
                                        battles on Cumbahe River, S.C., Columbus, S.C., and Bentonville,
                                        N.C.; Grand Review in Washington

                                        JEJ
                                      • Tony Gunter
                                        ... Actually, I was thinking of Chalmer s *Division* at Ft. Pillow ...
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jul 11 11:40 AM
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                                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "gnrljejohnston"
                                          <GnrlJEJohnston@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > > My GGGG Grandfather spent the war in Chalmer's Brigade ... couldn't
                                          > > that be considered a(n) (in)famous brigade?
                                          >
                                          > This brigade is not famous, but its history could be the history of
                                          > the Army of the Tennessee.

                                          Actually, I was thinking of Chalmer's *Division* at Ft. Pillow ...
                                        • Steve Hall
                                          You mention the attack on Tunnel Hill, but don t say which Tunnel Hill. If I understand your post, you are speaking of Tunnel Hill, Tenn., but there were six
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jul 11 9:39 PM
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                                            You mention the attack on Tunnel Hill, but don't say which Tunnel Hill.  If I understand your post, you are speaking of Tunnel Hill, Tenn., but there were six battles at Tunnel Hill, Georgia, which is not far away. 
                                             
                                                I am a little partial to Tunnel Hill, Georgia as I am one of the founders of the Tunnel Hill Historical Foundation where we have saved and preserved the old railroad tunnel, built a new heritage center and museum, are currently developing an 80 acre battlefield park which includes the Clisbe Austin House, aka Meadowlawn, which was Gen. Hood's hospital immediately after Chickamauga and Gen. Sherman's HQ as he launched what would later be known as his Atlanta Campaign, and have just acquired the original 1848 railroad Depot, one of Jefferson Davis' stops on his way to take office as President of the Confederacy.
                                             
                                            Steve Hall - Commander
                                            Lt. Col. William Luffman Camp #938
                                            Sons of Confederate Veterans
                                            Chatsworth, Georgia
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:06 PM
                                            Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Famed Brigades


                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > My GGGG Grandfather spent the war in Chalmer's Brigade ... couldn't
                                            > that be considered a(n) (in)famous brigade?

                                            This brigade is not famous, but its history could be the history of
                                            the Army of the Tennessee. It is one of the unsung brigades of the
                                            war. Formed as the First Brigade, Fifth Division in March 1862 made
                                            up by the 6th Iowa, 46th Ohio, and the 40th Illinois, these three
                                            regiments fought together for the most part of the war, and marched
                                            down Pennsylvania Avenue in the Grand Review together. The brigade
                                            changed its designations many times, but these three regiments along
                                            with a few others that joined the brigade, stuck it out one might say
                                            from the birth of the AOTT to its demise in July 1865.

                                            These regiments served four years, and was actively engaged in the
                                            two days' battle at Shiloh, Tenn.; siege of Corinth, Miss.; siege of
                                            Vicksburg, Miss.; Jackson, Miss.; battle of Mission Ridge, Tenn.(lead
                                            attackers on Tunnel Hill); Resaca Ga.;New Hope Church, Ga.; Black
                                            Jack Knob, Ga.; Kenesaw Mountain, Ga.; Atlanta, Ga.; Ezra Chapel,
                                            Ga.; Jonesboro, Ga.; Griswoldville, Ga.; siege of Savannah, Ga.;
                                            battles on Cumbahe River, S.C., Columbus, S.C., and Bentonville,
                                            N.C.; Grand Review in Washington

                                            JEJ

                                          • Sweetsstar@aol.com
                                            In a message dated 7/11/2007 9:42:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Tunnelhill@windstream.net writes: You mention the attack on Tunnel Hill, but don t say which
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 11 9:47 PM
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                                              In a message dated 7/11/2007 9:42:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Tunnelhill@... writes:
                                              You mention the attack on Tunnel Hill, but don't say which Tunnel Hill.  If I understand your post, you are speaking of Tunnel Hill, Tenn., but there were six battles at Tunnel Hill, Georgia, which is not far away. 
                                               
                                                  I am a little partial to Tunnel Hill, Georgia as I am one of the founders of the Tunnel Hill Historical Foundation where we have saved and preserved the old railroad tunnel, built a new heritage center and museum, are currently developing an 80 acre battlefield park which includes the Clisbe Austin House, aka Meadowlawn, which was Gen. Hood's hospital immediately after Chickamauga and Gen. Sherman's HQ as he launched what would later be known as his Atlanta Campaign, and have just acquired the original 1848 railroad Depot, one of Jefferson Davis' stops on his way to take office as President of the Confederacy.
                                               
                                              Steve Hall - Commander
                                              Lt. Col. William Luffman Camp #938
                                              Sons of Confederate Veterans
                                              Chatsworth, Georgia
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              Steve Is this the same Tunnel as in the Andrew's Raiders, General incident?  How long as the museum been there?  I was in the area three years ago following the trail of the General , well I was starting North and heading South but oh well,  I did not see any thing but the tunnel and only found it after driving around for a long time.  Glad to hear that all of that preservation is going on in your area.




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