Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [civilwarwest] Gunshots they claim killed Bill Anderson.

Expand Messages
  • Tom Mix
    Jay, Thanks for the fascinating accounts. Is there one that you agree with? If so why? If not, why not? I don t know as much about Anderson and Missouri as I
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 28 4:18 PM
    • 0 Attachment

      Jay,

      Thanks for the fascinating accounts. Is there one that you agree with? If so why? If not, why not?

      I don’t know as much about Anderson and Missouri as I do other areas of the war. I found your information very interesting and informative.

      Tom

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jay Longley
      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 6:48 PM
      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [civilwarwest] Gunshots they claim killed Bill Anderson.

       

      One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the Bloody Bill
      Anderson story has been presented by historians and writers for over
      140 years, has been the many contradictory accounts of both the
      number of gunshots and the location of gunshot wounds these writers
      claim killed Bloody Bill Anderson in the ambush near Orrick, Missouri
      on October 26th or 27th depending on which story you believe. Going
      back through my notes on this event, I came across over a dozen
      different and contradictory stories of both the number of gunshots
      this guerrilla was said to have taken and their location on the body.
      The contradictions are quite obvious and the differences are as
      numerous as the writers who told about these very important gunshots.
      If one accepts that Bloody Bill Anderson was killed in this ambush,
      which I don't, then it must be amply certain that only one of these
      reports can possibly be the true account. I will give you all just a
      sampling of these accounts and will leave it up to those who have
      written and published these opposing versions to explain their
      positions and give their sources.
      ****

      The following article was written, on October 8, 1989, by Lorene
      Bishop who was a writer for the Brownwood Bulletin and President of
      the Brown County Historical Society. Lorene Bishop, as almost every
      reputable Brown County historian believed firmly that Bloody Bill
      Anderson lived out his life in Brown County, Texas until his death in
      1927. I am posting only the portion of Bishop's book that deals with
      the ambush below as told by James S. Hackley:

      "... The existence of the Bill Anderson of Texas that became known to
      Missourians in 1924 when a short article about him appeared in The
      Houston Post and was copied in Missouri papers. At once Colonel
      James S. Hackley, an early settler of Mobeby Missouri present his
      knowledge of the facts preceeding the slaying. His story indicates
      that the guerrilla's body was identified by his, Hackley's mother, a
      cousin of the slain Confederate irregular...
      Four weeks later we drove to Richmond to my mother's brother. When
      my uncle came out to greet my mother, a boy ran up and said that Bill
      Anderson had been killed and his body was at Tice's gallery.
      We went to Tice's gallery. When my mother saw the blood on
      Anderson's face, and his clotted hair, she pleaded that the picture
      not be taken until she had washed his face and combed his hair. Her
      plea was refused by Captain Cox, who was present and claimed to have
      killed Anderson.
      Anderson was buried in Richmond. The bullet that ended his life
      struck him in the back of his head and came out through his
      forehead.' "

      (This account says ONE bullet "struck him in the back of the head and
      came out through his forehead.")
      ***

      This next account is from the War of the Rebellion Records and comes
      from no other that Lt. Colonel S.P. Cox himself.

      "Report of Lieut. Col. Samuel P. Cox, Thirty-third Infanty Enrolled
      Missouri Militia.
      Richmond, Mo., October 27, 1864.

      DEAR SIR: We have the honor to report the result of our expedition on
      yesterday against the notorious bushwhacker, William T. Anderson and
      his forces, near Albany, in the soutwest corner of this county (Ray).
      Learning his whereabouts we struck camp on yesterday morning
      and made a forced march and came in contact with their pickets about
      a mile this side of Albany; drove them in and through Albany and into
      the woods beyond. We dismounted our men in the town, threw our
      infantry force into the woods beyond, sending a cavalry advance who
      engaged the enemy and fell back, when Anderson and his fiendish gang,
      about 300 strong, raised the Indian yell and came in full speed upon
      our lines, shooting and yelling as they came. Our lines held their
      position without a break.The notorious bushwhacker, Anderson, and one
      of his men, supposed to be Captain Rains, son of General Rains,
      charged through our lines. Anderson was killed and fell some fifty
      steps in our rear, receiving two balls in the side of the head. Rains
      made his escape and their forces retreated in full speed, being
      completely routed; our cavalry pursued them some ten miles, finding
      the road strewn with blood for miles. We hear of them scattered in
      various directions, some considerable force of them making thier way
      toward Richfield, in Clay County. We capured on Anderson private
      papers and orders from General Price that identify him beyond a
      doubt.
      I have the honor to report that my officers and me conducted
      themselves well and fought bravely on the field. We had 4 men
      wounded; lost none. The forces of my command consisted of a portion
      of Major Grimes, of Ray County, Fifty first Regiment Enrolled
      Missouri Militia, and a portion of the Thirty-Third Enrolled Missouri
      Militia, from Daviess and Caldwell Counties.

      Respectfully yours,

      S.P. COX
      Lieut. Col., Comdg. Thirty-third Regt. Enrolled Missouri
      Militia.
      GENERAL CRAIG

      (This one claims Anderson was hit with "two balls in the side of the
      head." Quite a feat of markmanship I would say.)

      ***
      The next is from a message by one of the members of our Bloody Bill
      Anderson Mystery group, Laura Anderson Way, in which she quotes Paul
      Petersen.

      "The following is from the book "Quantrill of Missouri" by Paul
      Petersen, page 392 and 393."

      "In late October, in Ray County, Anderson saw the report that Price
      had been defeated and that George Todd had been killed. On October 24
      he determined to punish the Federals for the Southern defeat at
      Westport."

      "Harrison Trow recalled that William Smith, a veteran guerrilla with
      four years' experience, rode next to Anderson. Trow claimed that five
      bullets struck Smith and three struck Anderson, and at the end of the
      fight, both men were dead."

      (Here Trow is quoted as saying "three (bullets) struck Anderson.
      Another strange fact is that, while this report claims William Smith
      was killed in this ambush, Smith's name appears nowhere on the
      monument erected to the guerrillas killed that day.)

      ***
      From: http://www.history. com/tdih. do?action= tdihArticleYear& id=2366

      "...Anderson went to Texas that winter, got married, and returned to
      Missouri in 1864 with a band of about 50 fighters. Anderson embarked
      on a summer of violence, leading his group on a campaign that killed
      hundreds and caused extensive damage. The climax came on September 27
      when Anderson's gang joined with several others to pillage the town
      of Centralia, Missouri. When more than 100 Union soldiers pursued
      them, the guerillas ambushed and massacred the entire detachment.
      Just a month later, Anderson's band was caught in a Union ambush
      outside of Albany, Missouri, and Anderson was killed by two bullets
      to his head. The body of the "blood-drenched savage," as he became
      known in the area, was placed on public display. Anderson kept a rope
      to record his killings, and there were 54 knots in it at the time of
      his death..."

      ***

      From:
      http://www.bullshid o.net/modules. php?
      name=Reviews& file=viewarticle &id=291

      Adult language is used on that site.

      "...After completely decimating the town, he moved his men to the
      south of town and set up an ambush for 150 Union Calvary men moving
      in after him. They killed 116 of them. They shot them through the
      head, then scalped them and thrust them with bayonets. They even
      chopped of ears and noses.

      On October 27th 1864, Anderson was ambushed by Captain S.P.Cox and
      his Union troops. He and one other man charged the line guns blazing.
      His horse was shot and he bit the dust, he was then shot in the back
      of the head 2 times. His body was taken to Richmond, Missouri where
      they decapitated his corpse and stuck his head on a telegraph pole.
      His body was then dragged through the streets and dumped in an
      unmarked grave.

      Bloody Bill was passionate, angry and ruthless ~ described by Jim
      Cummins as "The most desperate man I ever met." "

      (This one seems to be saying Anderson's horse "bit the dust" and then
      Anderson was executed with two shots in the back of the head.)

      ***

      http://www.civilwar history.com/ quantrill/ anderson. htm

      "While leading his guerilla band near Orrick, Missouri on October
      27th 1864, Anderson was ambushed by Captain S.P.Cox and his Union
      troops. Anderson was caught completely unaware and was riddled with
      bullets then left for dead in his saddle. His loyal followers put up
      a fight to try and recover Anderson's corpse, but they were driven
      back by superior firepower.

      Anderson's body was taken to Richmond, Missouri where it was propped
      up in a chair and a pistol was placed in the dead man's hand then
      photographs were taken. A short while later, the Union troopers, full
      of loathing for the dead man, decapitated Anderson and impaled his
      head on a telegraph pole at the entrance to the town as a signature
      to all that the infamous killer was indeed dead. Anderson's torso was
      roped and tied to a horse then dragged along the streets of Richmond
      before being dumped in an unmarked grave outside of town."

      (This is just one of many accounts that claim that Bill Anderson's
      body was "riddled with bullets".)

      ***

      Carl W. Breihan tells the story a little different in his account
      from page 78 of his "Killer Legions of Quantrill", 1971, by saying
      the following:

      "...Anderson was the first to fall, his body caught in a crossfire
      and riddled as he toppled from the saddle..."

      ***

      If it weren't for the seriousness of this historical event, all of
      these different and contradictory accounts would be laughable. To say
      the least, EVERY writer who has made money selling books containing a
      version of this ambush story owes the American public an explanation
      for writing whatever tale he/she chose to tell in the book(s),
      regarding the way they claim Bloody Bill Anderson was killed that
      day. They should step forward and give their sources for this
      misinformation.
      Thank you,
      ~Jay~

    • Jay Longley
      Hi Ken. There were a few poses taken of the guerrilla killed that day who they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson. We have thoroughly analyzed each of these
      Message 2 of 29 , May 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Ken. There were a few poses taken of the guerrilla killed that
        day who they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson. We have thoroughly
        analyzed each of these photographs and the body looks like that of a
        man getting ready to go out on the town and shows no bloodstained
        clothes or solid evidence of either entrance or exit wounds. A book
        could be written about these photographs alone and the many questions
        they raise. I share your appreciation for accuracy in history and
        assure you that the more you look into the traditional Bloody Bill
        Anderson stories, the more inaccuracies you will discover. After a
        year of researching and investigating Bloody Bill Anderson's life, I
        have found it is the most fascinating historical study I have ever
        taken part in.
        Thanks,
        ~Jay~



        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 4/30/2007 5:41:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
        > jay_longley@... writes:
        >
        > Hi Ken. They went to great lengths to photograph the body of the
        guerrilla
        > killed so there should have been at least one accurate account of
        the bullet
        > wounds on it. Bloody Bill Anderson was the most hunted guerrilla
        leader at the
        > time so it is unreasonable for me to accept their excuse that he
        was dumped in
        > a grave without analyzing the cause of death, the number and
        location of all
        > wounds to the body.
        >
        > If there is photographic record of the wounds, that really ought to
        point to
        > which account is more accurate. Oughtn't it? Interesting bit of
        trivia, by the
        > way. Like to read these things that are seemingly trivial, but I'm
        a freak
        > for accuracy, even if I don't much care what actually happened to
        Bloody Bill.
        >
        > Ken
        >
        >
        >
        > ************************************** See what's free at
        http://www.aol.com
        >
      • Carl Williams
        As for the thought that maybe people at the time did not think an autopsy was important, you *should* look at Booth s autopsy. This was conducted on the
        Message 3 of 29 , May 3, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          As for the thought that maybe people at the time did not think an
          autopsy was important, you *should* look at Booth's autopsy. This was
          conducted on the monitor Montauk and every effort was made to show the
          public the body was clearly Booth's [see link below]. This means my
          memory was wrong about Booth's autopsy, but I've delved a little
          deeper and it seems that maybe some controversy was stirred up over
          Mudd's identifying a different limb as broken? [can't seem to get this
          straight using the internet].
          In any case, people at the time would have known identifying Anderson
          properly was important. It is a fact that the law in general by this
          time placed great value on such proper identification, it having such
          impact on murder charges, life insurance claims, etc. Of course one
          would suspect that on the Frontier, there were bigger problems doing
          things properly.

          http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln83.html

          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Ken. There were a few poses taken of the guerrilla killed that
          > day who they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson. We have thoroughly
          > analyzed each of these photographs and the body looks like that of a
          > man getting ready to go out on the town and shows no bloodstained
          > clothes or solid evidence of either entrance or exit wounds. A book
          > could be written about these photographs alone and the many questions
          > they raise. I share your appreciation for accuracy in history and
          > assure you that the more you look into the traditional Bloody Bill
          > Anderson stories, the more inaccuracies you will discover. After a
          > year of researching and investigating Bloody Bill Anderson's life, I
          > have found it is the most fascinating historical study I have ever
          > taken part in.
          > Thanks,
          > ~Jay~
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@ wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > In a message dated 4/30/2007 5:41:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
          > > jay_longley@ writes:
          > >
          > > Hi Ken. They went to great lengths to photograph the body of the
          > guerrilla
          > > killed so there should have been at least one accurate account of
          > the bullet
          > > wounds on it. Bloody Bill Anderson was the most hunted guerrilla
          > leader at the
          > > time so it is unreasonable for me to accept their excuse that he
          > was dumped in
          > > a grave without analyzing the cause of death, the number and
          > location of all
          > > wounds to the body.
          > >
          > > If there is photographic record of the wounds, that really ought to
          > point to
          > > which account is more accurate. Oughtn't it? Interesting bit of
          > trivia, by the
          > > way. Like to read these things that are seemingly trivial, but I'm
          > a freak
          > > for accuracy, even if I don't much care what actually happened to
          > Bloody Bill.
          > >
          > > Ken
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ************************************** See what's free at
          > http://www.aol.com
          > >
          >
        • James W. Durney
          ... was ... the ... this ... Anderson ... such ... Lincoln s killer and Blood Bill Anderson and not in the same league when it comes to handling their body.
          Message 4 of 29 , May 4, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > As for the thought that maybe people at the time did not think an
            > autopsy was important, you *should* look at Booth's autopsy. This
            was
            > conducted on the monitor Montauk and every effort was made to show
            the
            > public the body was clearly Booth's [see link below]. This means my
            > memory was wrong about Booth's autopsy, but I've delved a little
            > deeper and it seems that maybe some controversy was stirred up over
            > Mudd's identifying a different limb as broken? [can't seem to get
            this
            > straight using the internet].
            > In any case, people at the time would have known identifying
            Anderson
            > properly was important. It is a fact that the law in general by this
            > time placed great value on such proper identification, it having
            such
            > impact on murder charges, life insurance claims, etc. Of course one
            > would suspect that on the Frontier, there were bigger problems doing
            > things properly.
            >

            Lincoln's killer and Blood Bill Anderson and not in the same league
            when it comes to handling their body. As you stated "on the
            Frontier" things were different than in Washington. In addition,
            after the "Yup, that's him" what more would you have expected of them?

            James
          • Jay Longley
            Hello Carl. Thank you for your interesting and correct analysis of the importance of properly noting the way that this guerrilla, who they claimed was Bloody
            Message 5 of 29 , May 5, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Carl. Thank you for your interesting and correct analysis of
              the importance of properly noting the way that this guerrilla, who
              they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson, was killed. History clearly
              shows that Bill Anderson was the most hunted guerrilla leader,
              probably even the most hunted person, in Missouri at the time. The
              Official Records are full of desperate attempts to stop him. Add to
              this the fact that the Yankees mis-identified other guerrillas as
              being Bloody Bill Anderson on at least two other occasions make
              accuracy of extreme importance.
              ~Jay~





              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > As for the thought that maybe people at the time did not think an
              > autopsy was important, you *should* look at Booth's autopsy. This
              was
              > conducted on the monitor Montauk and every effort was made to show
              the
              > public the body was clearly Booth's [see link below]. This means my
              > memory was wrong about Booth's autopsy, but I've delved a little
              > deeper and it seems that maybe some controversy was stirred up over
              > Mudd's identifying a different limb as broken? [can't seem to get
              this
              > straight using the internet].
              > In any case, people at the time would have known identifying
              Anderson
              > properly was important. It is a fact that the law in general by this
              > time placed great value on such proper identification, it having
              such
              > impact on murder charges, life insurance claims, etc. Of course one
              > would suspect that on the Frontier, there were bigger problems doing
              > things properly.
              >
              > http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln83.html
              >
              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Ken. There were a few poses taken of the guerrilla killed
              that
              > > day who they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson. We have
              thoroughly
              > > analyzed each of these photographs and the body looks like that
              of a
              > > man getting ready to go out on the town and shows no bloodstained
              > > clothes or solid evidence of either entrance or exit wounds. A
              book
              > > could be written about these photographs alone and the many
              questions
              > > they raise. I share your appreciation for accuracy in history
              and
              > > assure you that the more you look into the traditional Bloody
              Bill
              > > Anderson stories, the more inaccuracies you will discover. After
              a
              > > year of researching and investigating Bloody Bill Anderson's
              life, I
              > > have found it is the most fascinating historical study I have
              ever
              > > taken part in.
              > > Thanks,
              > > ~Jay~
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > In a message dated 4/30/2007 5:41:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
              > > > jay_longley@ writes:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Ken. They went to great lengths to photograph the body of
              the
              > > guerrilla
              > > > killed so there should have been at least one accurate account
              of
              > > the bullet
              > > > wounds on it. Bloody Bill Anderson was the most hunted
              guerrilla
              > > leader at the
              > > > time so it is unreasonable for me to accept their excuse that
              he
              > > was dumped in
              > > > a grave without analyzing the cause of death, the number and
              > > location of all
              > > > wounds to the body.
              > > >
              > > > If there is photographic record of the wounds, that really
              ought to
              > > point to
              > > > which account is more accurate. Oughtn't it? Interesting bit of
              > > trivia, by the
              > > > way. Like to read these things that are seemingly trivial, but
              I'm
              > > a freak
              > > > for accuracy, even if I don't much care what actually happened
              to
              > > Bloody Bill.
              > > >
              > > > Ken
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ************************************** See what's free at
              > > http://www.aol.com
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Jay Longley
              Hi Tom. I firmly believe that our in-depth investigation has proven that Bloody Bill Anderson was not killed in 1864. I believe he escaped, as he admitted in
              Message 6 of 29 , May 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Tom. I firmly believe that our in-depth investigation has proven
                that Bloody Bill Anderson was not killed in 1864. I believe he
                escaped, as he admitted in his 1924 interviews with Henry C. Fuller,
                and settled in Brown County in central Texas. I wish to thank you
                for taking the time necessary to study this one point of the ambush
                stories. If you will email me privately, I will reply with the way
                to access our information.

                jay_longley@...

                ~Jay~





                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jay,
                >
                > Thanks for the fascinating accounts. Is there one that you agree
                with? If so
                > why? If not, why not?
                >
                > I don't know as much about Anderson and Missouri as I do other
                areas of the
                > war. I found your information very interesting and informative.
                >
                > Tom
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Jay Longley
                > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 6:48 PM
                > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [civilwarwest] Gunshots they claim killed Bill Anderson.
                >
                >
                >
                > One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the Bloody Bill
                > Anderson story has been presented by historians and writers for
                over
                > 140 years, has been the many contradictory accounts of both the
                > number of gunshots and the location of gunshot wounds these writers
                > claim killed Bloody Bill Anderson in the ambush near Orrick,
                Missouri
                > on October 26th or 27th depending on which story you believe. Going
                > back through my notes on this event, I came across over a dozen
                > different and contradictory stories of both the number of gunshots
                > this guerrilla was said to have taken and their location on the
                body.
                > The contradictions are quite obvious and the differences are as
                > numerous as the writers who told about these very important
                gunshots.
                > If one accepts that Bloody Bill Anderson was killed in this ambush,
                > which I don't, then it must be amply certain that only one of these
                > reports can possibly be the true account. I will give you all just
                a
                > sampling of these accounts and will leave it up to those who have
                > written and published these opposing versions to explain their
                > positions and give their sources.
                > ****
                >
                > The following article was written, on October 8, 1989, by Lorene
                > Bishop who was a writer for the Brownwood Bulletin and President of
                > the Brown County Historical Society. Lorene Bishop, as almost every
                > reputable Brown County historian believed firmly that Bloody Bill
                > Anderson lived out his life in Brown County, Texas until his death
                in
                > 1927. I am posting only the portion of Bishop's book that deals
                with
                > the ambush below as told by James S. Hackley:
                >
                > "... The existence of the Bill Anderson of Texas that became known
                to
                > Missourians in 1924 when a short article about him appeared in The
                > Houston Post and was copied in Missouri papers. At once Colonel
                > James S. Hackley, an early settler of Mobeby Missouri present his
                > knowledge of the facts preceeding the slaying. His story indicates
                > that the guerrilla's body was identified by his, Hackley's mother,
                a
                > cousin of the slain Confederate irregular...
                > Four weeks later we drove to Richmond to my mother's brother. When
                > my uncle came out to greet my mother, a boy ran up and said that
                Bill
                > Anderson had been killed and his body was at Tice's gallery.
                > We went to Tice's gallery. When my mother saw the blood on
                > Anderson's face, and his clotted hair, she pleaded that the picture
                > not be taken until she had washed his face and combed his hair. Her
                > plea was refused by Captain Cox, who was present and claimed to
                have
                > killed Anderson.
                > Anderson was buried in Richmond. The bullet that ended his life
                > struck him in the back of his head and came out through his
                > forehead.' "
                >
                > (This account says ONE bullet "struck him in the back of the head
                and
                > came out through his forehead.")
                > ***
                >
                > This next account is from the War of the Rebellion Records and
                comes
                > from no other that Lt. Colonel S.P. Cox himself.
                >
                > "Report of Lieut. Col. Samuel P. Cox, Thirty-third Infanty Enrolled
                > Missouri Militia.
                > Richmond, Mo., October 27, 1864.
                >
                > DEAR SIR: We have the honor to report the result of our expedition
                on
                > yesterday against the notorious bushwhacker, William T. Anderson
                and
                > his forces, near Albany, in the soutwest corner of this county
                (Ray).
                > Learning his whereabouts we struck camp on yesterday morning
                > and made a forced march and came in contact with their pickets
                about
                > a mile this side of Albany; drove them in and through Albany and
                into
                > the woods beyond. We dismounted our men in the town, threw our
                > infantry force into the woods beyond, sending a cavalry advance who
                > engaged the enemy and fell back, when Anderson and his fiendish
                gang,
                > about 300 strong, raised the Indian yell and came in full speed
                upon
                > our lines, shooting and yelling as they came. Our lines held their
                > position without a break.The notorious bushwhacker, Anderson, and
                one
                > of his men, supposed to be Captain Rains, son of General Rains,
                > charged through our lines. Anderson was killed and fell some fifty
                > steps in our rear, receiving two balls in the side of the head.
                Rains
                > made his escape and their forces retreated in full speed, being
                > completely routed; our cavalry pursued them some ten miles, finding
                > the road strewn with blood for miles. We hear of them scattered in
                > various directions, some considerable force of them making thier
                way
                > toward Richfield, in Clay County. We capured on Anderson private
                > papers and orders from General Price that identify him beyond a
                > doubt.
                > I have the honor to report that my officers and me conducted
                > themselves well and fought bravely on the field. We had 4 men
                > wounded; lost none. The forces of my command consisted of a portion
                > of Major Grimes, of Ray County, Fifty first Regiment Enrolled
                > Missouri Militia, and a portion of the Thirty-Third Enrolled
                Missouri
                > Militia, from Daviess and Caldwell Counties.
                >
                > Respectfully yours,
                >
                > S.P. COX
                > Lieut. Col., Comdg. Thirty-third Regt. Enrolled Missouri
                > Militia.
                > GENERAL CRAIG
                >
                > (This one claims Anderson was hit with "two balls in the side of
                the
                > head." Quite a feat of markmanship I would say.)
                >
                > ***
                > The next is from a message by one of the members of our Bloody Bill
                > Anderson Mystery group, Laura Anderson Way, in which she quotes
                Paul
                > Petersen.
                >
                > "The following is from the book "Quantrill of Missouri" by Paul
                > Petersen, page 392 and 393."
                >
                > "In late October, in Ray County, Anderson saw the report that Price
                > had been defeated and that George Todd had been killed. On October
                24
                > he determined to punish the Federals for the Southern defeat at
                > Westport."
                >
                > "Harrison Trow recalled that William Smith, a veteran guerrilla
                with
                > four years' experience, rode next to Anderson. Trow claimed that
                five
                > bullets struck Smith and three struck Anderson, and at the end of
                the
                > fight, both men were dead."
                >
                > (Here Trow is quoted as saying "three (bullets) struck Anderson.
                > Another strange fact is that, while this report claims William
                Smith
                > was killed in this ambush, Smith's name appears nowhere on the
                > monument erected to the guerrillas killed that day.)
                >
                > ***
                > From: http://www.history
                > <http://www.history.com/tdih.do?action=tdihArticleYear&id=2366>
                > com/tdih.do?action=tdihArticleYear&id=2366
                >
                > "...Anderson went to Texas that winter, got married, and returned
                to
                > Missouri in 1864 with a band of about 50 fighters. Anderson
                embarked
                > on a summer of violence, leading his group on a campaign that
                killed
                > hundreds and caused extensive damage. The climax came on September
                27
                > when Anderson's gang joined with several others to pillage the town
                > of Centralia, Missouri. When more than 100 Union soldiers pursued
                > them, the guerillas ambushed and massacred the entire detachment.
                > Just a month later, Anderson's band was caught in a Union ambush
                > outside of Albany, Missouri, and Anderson was killed by two bullets
                > to his head. The body of the "blood-drenched savage," as he became
                > known in the area, was placed on public display. Anderson kept a
                rope
                > to record his killings, and there were 54 knots in it at the time
                of
                > his death..."
                >
                > ***
                >
                > From:
                > http://www.bullshid <http://www.bullshido.net/modules.>
                o.net/modules. php?
                > name=Reviews& file=viewarticle &id=291
                >
                > Adult language is used on that site.
                >
                > "...After completely decimating the town, he moved his men to the
                > south of town and set up an ambush for 150 Union Calvary men moving
                > in after him. They killed 116 of them. They shot them through the
                > head, then scalped them and thrust them with bayonets. They even
                > chopped of ears and noses.
                >
                > On October 27th 1864, Anderson was ambushed by Captain S.P.Cox and
                > his Union troops. He and one other man charged the line guns
                blazing.
                > His horse was shot and he bit the dust, he was then shot in the
                back
                > of the head 2 times. His body was taken to Richmond, Missouri where
                > they decapitated his corpse and stuck his head on a telegraph pole.
                > His body was then dragged through the streets and dumped in an
                > unmarked grave.
                >
                > Bloody Bill was passionate, angry and ruthless ~ described by Jim
                > Cummins as "The most desperate man I ever met." "
                >
                > (This one seems to be saying Anderson's horse "bit the dust" and
                then
                > Anderson was executed with two shots in the back of the head.)
                >
                > ***
                >
                > http://www.civilwar
                <http://www.civilwarhistory.com/quantrill/anderson.htm>
                > history.com/quantrill/anderson.htm
                >
                > "While leading his guerilla band near Orrick, Missouri on October
                > 27th 1864, Anderson was ambushed by Captain S.P.Cox and his Union
                > troops. Anderson was caught completely unaware and was riddled with
                > bullets then left for dead in his saddle. His loyal followers put
                up
                > a fight to try and recover Anderson's corpse, but they were driven
                > back by superior firepower.
                >
                > Anderson's body was taken to Richmond, Missouri where it was
                propped
                > up in a chair and a pistol was placed in the dead man's hand then
                > photographs were taken. A short while later, the Union troopers,
                full
                > of loathing for the dead man, decapitated Anderson and impaled his
                > head on a telegraph pole at the entrance to the town as a signature
                > to all that the infamous killer was indeed dead. Anderson's torso
                was
                > roped and tied to a horse then dragged along the streets of
                Richmond
                > before being dumped in an unmarked grave outside of town."
                >
                > (This is just one of many accounts that claim that Bill Anderson's
                > body was "riddled with bullets".)
                >
                > ***
                >
                > Carl W. Breihan tells the story a little different in his account
                > from page 78 of his "Killer Legions of Quantrill", 1971, by saying
                > the following:
                >
                > "...Anderson was the first to fall, his body caught in a crossfire
                > and riddled as he toppled from the saddle..."
                >
                > ***
                >
                > If it weren't for the seriousness of this historical event, all of
                > these different and contradictory accounts would be laughable. To
                say
                > the least, EVERY writer who has made money selling books containing
                a
                > version of this ambush story owes the American public an
                explanation
                > for writing whatever tale he/she chose to tell in the book(s),
                > regarding the way they claim Bloody Bill Anderson was killed that
                > day. They should step forward and give their sources for this
                > misinformation.
                > Thank you,
                > ~Jay~
                >
              • Bob Huddleston
                Of your sources, only two are of any value: Col. Cox s after action report and the 1924 newspaper account of Col. Hackley. (I assume it is a typo - the town is
                Message 7 of 29 , May 6, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Of your sources, only two are of any value: Col. Cox's after action report
                  and the 1924 newspaper account of Col. Hackley. (I assume it is a typo - the
                  town is "Mobley").

                  Unless there are good footnotes that you did not supply, none of the
                  secondary accounts are worth anything. The closest would be Harrison Trow.
                  However, his book, _Charles W. Quantrell; a True History of His Guerrilla
                  Warfare on the Missouri and Kansas Border During the Civil War of 1861-1865
                  _, published in 1923, is a mishmash of rumor and legend. His recounting of
                  Anderson's death reads like a movie and does not conform to either Cox's
                  after action report, or other contemporary accounts. And as near as I can
                  determine, he was not with Anderson in Ray County - indeed I could not
                  determine if he was even with Quantrell during Price's Raid.

                  You missed some other OR references to Anderson's demise. Samuel P. Cox was
                  major of the First Battalion, Missouri State Militia from April 1862 until
                  his resignation in January 1864. James Craig, commander of the "Enrolled
                  Missouri Militia" (it requires a score card to keep track of all the
                  different versions of troops, both Yankee and Rebel in Missouri!), asked Cox
                  to serve without pay or commission, and get Anderson. Cox did.

                  According to Craig, Cox secured from Anderson's body his pocket note book,
                  containing letters from his wife, two orders to Anderson from Price, and a
                  locket of his wife's hair. The body was identified by several residents
                  while it was lying at the Richmond Court House. (Craig to Rosecrans's
                  adjutant general, 30 October 1864, 86 OR 334). In addition, a report on the
                  fight mentions a Confederate flag with an inscription from a female admirer,
                  "Presented to W. L. (sic) Anderson by his friend, F.M.R. Let it not be
                  contaminated by Fed. Hands." (See Castel, _Bloody Bill Anderson: The Short
                  Savage Life of a Civil War Guerrilla _, 126)

                  Your contention about the wounds received is a non-story. Hackley is
                  recalling something which happened sixty-one years before and one would
                  expect his details to be sketchy. You will note that his mother, a cousin,
                  identified the body as Anderson's. By the way, the photographer was Dr.
                  Robert Kice, a dentist in Richmond who had a sideline taking pictures. Not
                  Tice. Obviously the man who was photographed did not get shot though the
                  head from rear to front. The contemporary reports say twice in the side of
                  the head, which is consistent with Anderson riding into Cox's lines, not in
                  the back, unless it was "friendly fire"!

                  The finest historians on the Civil War in Missouri are Albert Castel, who
                  had published several well researched books on what William Freehling calls
                  "the world class guerilla war" in the state; Thomas Goodrich, especially his
                  _Black Flag: Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865 _; and
                  Michael Fellman, _ Inside War: The Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri During the
                  American Civil War _. They are in agreement that it was Anderson who was
                  killed near Albany, Mo., in October, 1864. The body was not mutilated,
                  except for the ring finger being cut off - which can be seen in the photos.
                  Anderson was buried in an unmarked grave, after which some of the militia
                  urinated on it.

                  BTW, did you write the biography in Wikipedia?

                  Take care,

                  Bob

                  Judy and Bob Huddleston
                  10643 Sperry Street
                  Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                  303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...

                  And so to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always in the name
                  of right and honour and peace, until the Gods are tired of blood and create
                  a race that can understand." - George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and Cleopatra"
                • Jay Longley
                  Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet wounds. My original message dealt
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 6, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                    contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet wounds.
                    My original message dealt only with this specific part, the gunshots,
                    of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its aftermath. I
                    have read most of the books you mention and the researchers helping
                    me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly and
                    are still actively working on them. Since my time is very limited,
                    by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course unable
                    to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I assure
                    you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the life
                    and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted and we
                    are far from finished.
                    Thank you,
                    ~Jay~




                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Huddleston"
                    <huddleston.r@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Of your sources, only two are of any value: Col. Cox's after action
                    report
                    > and the 1924 newspaper account of Col. Hackley. (I assume it is a
                    typo - the
                    > town is "Mobley").
                    >
                    > Unless there are good footnotes that you did not supply, none of the
                    > secondary accounts are worth anything. The closest would be
                    Harrison Trow.
                    > However, his book, _Charles W. Quantrell; a True History of His
                    Guerrilla
                    > Warfare on the Missouri and Kansas Border During the Civil War of
                    1861-1865
                    > _, published in 1923, is a mishmash of rumor and legend. His
                    recounting of
                    > Anderson's death reads like a movie and does not conform to either
                    Cox's
                    > after action report, or other contemporary accounts. And as near as
                    I can
                    > determine, he was not with Anderson in Ray County - indeed I could
                    not
                    > determine if he was even with Quantrell during Price's Raid.
                    >
                    > You missed some other OR references to Anderson's demise. Samuel P.
                    Cox was
                    > major of the First Battalion, Missouri State Militia from April
                    1862 until
                    > his resignation in January 1864. James Craig, commander of
                    the "Enrolled
                    > Missouri Militia" (it requires a score card to keep track of all the
                    > different versions of troops, both Yankee and Rebel in Missouri!),
                    asked Cox
                    > to serve without pay or commission, and get Anderson. Cox did.
                    >
                    > According to Craig, Cox secured from Anderson's body his pocket
                    note book,
                    > containing letters from his wife, two orders to Anderson from
                    Price, and a
                    > locket of his wife's hair. The body was identified by several
                    residents
                    > while it was lying at the Richmond Court House. (Craig to
                    Rosecrans's
                    > adjutant general, 30 October 1864, 86 OR 334). In addition, a
                    report on the
                    > fight mentions a Confederate flag with an inscription from a female
                    admirer,
                    > "Presented to W. L. (sic) Anderson by his friend, F.M.R. Let it not
                    be
                    > contaminated by Fed. Hands." (See Castel, _Bloody Bill Anderson:
                    The Short
                    > Savage Life of a Civil War Guerrilla _, 126)
                    >
                    > Your contention about the wounds received is a non-story. Hackley is
                    > recalling something which happened sixty-one years before and one
                    would
                    > expect his details to be sketchy. You will note that his mother, a
                    cousin,
                    > identified the body as Anderson's. By the way, the photographer was
                    Dr.
                    > Robert Kice, a dentist in Richmond who had a sideline taking
                    pictures. Not
                    > Tice. Obviously the man who was photographed did not get shot
                    though the
                    > head from rear to front. The contemporary reports say twice in the
                    side of
                    > the head, which is consistent with Anderson riding into Cox's
                    lines, not in
                    > the back, unless it was "friendly fire"!
                    >
                    > The finest historians on the Civil War in Missouri are Albert
                    Castel, who
                    > had published several well researched books on what William
                    Freehling calls
                    > "the world class guerilla war" in the state; Thomas Goodrich,
                    especially his
                    > _Black Flag: Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865 _;
                    and
                    > Michael Fellman, _ Inside War: The Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri
                    During the
                    > American Civil War _. They are in agreement that it was Anderson
                    who was
                    > killed near Albany, Mo., in October, 1864. The body was not
                    mutilated,
                    > except for the ring finger being cut off - which can be seen in the
                    photos.
                    > Anderson was buried in an unmarked grave, after which some of the
                    militia
                    > urinated on it.
                    >
                    > BTW, did you write the biography in Wikipedia?
                    >
                    > Take care,
                    >
                    > Bob
                    >
                    > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                    > 10643 Sperry Street
                    > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                    > 303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...
                    >
                    > And so to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always in
                    the name
                    > of right and honour and peace, until the Gods are tired of blood
                    and create
                    > a race that can understand." - George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and
                    Cleopatra"
                    >
                  • hank9174
                    FWIW, as an example, there are many contradictions, subtle nuances and inaccuracies to the eyewitness accounts and later recollections of the wounding of
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 7, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      FWIW, as an example, there are many contradictions, subtle nuances
                      and inaccuracies to the eyewitness accounts and later recollections
                      of the wounding of Stonewall Jackson.


                      HankC

                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                      > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet wounds.
                      > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the
                      gunshots,
                      > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its aftermath.
                      I
                      > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers helping
                      > me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly
                      and
                      > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very limited,
                      > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course
                      unable
                      > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I
                      assure
                      > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the life
                      > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted and
                      we
                      > are far from finished.
                      > Thank you,
                      > ~Jay~
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Huddleston"
                      > <huddleston.r@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Of your sources, only two are of any value: Col. Cox's after
                      action
                      > report
                      > > and the 1924 newspaper account of Col. Hackley. (I assume it is a
                      > typo - the
                      > > town is "Mobley").
                      > >
                      > > Unless there are good footnotes that you did not supply, none of
                      the
                      > > secondary accounts are worth anything. The closest would be
                      > Harrison Trow.
                      > > However, his book, _Charles W. Quantrell; a True History of His
                      > Guerrilla
                      > > Warfare on the Missouri and Kansas Border During the Civil War of
                      > 1861-1865
                      > > _, published in 1923, is a mishmash of rumor and legend. His
                      > recounting of
                      > > Anderson's death reads like a movie and does not conform to
                      either
                      > Cox's
                      > > after action report, or other contemporary accounts. And as near
                      as
                      > I can
                      > > determine, he was not with Anderson in Ray County - indeed I
                      could
                      > not
                      > > determine if he was even with Quantrell during Price's Raid.
                      > >
                      > > You missed some other OR references to Anderson's demise. Samuel
                      P.
                      > Cox was
                      > > major of the First Battalion, Missouri State Militia from April
                      > 1862 until
                      > > his resignation in January 1864. James Craig, commander of
                      > the "Enrolled
                      > > Missouri Militia" (it requires a score card to keep track of all
                      the
                      > > different versions of troops, both Yankee and Rebel in
                      Missouri!),
                      > asked Cox
                      > > to serve without pay or commission, and get Anderson. Cox did.
                      > >
                      > > According to Craig, Cox secured from Anderson's body his pocket
                      > note book,
                      > > containing letters from his wife, two orders to Anderson from
                      > Price, and a
                      > > locket of his wife's hair. The body was identified by several
                      > residents
                      > > while it was lying at the Richmond Court House. (Craig to
                      > Rosecrans's
                      > > adjutant general, 30 October 1864, 86 OR 334). In addition, a
                      > report on the
                      > > fight mentions a Confederate flag with an inscription from a
                      female
                      > admirer,
                      > > "Presented to W. L. (sic) Anderson by his friend, F.M.R. Let it
                      not
                      > be
                      > > contaminated by Fed. Hands." (See Castel, _Bloody Bill Anderson:
                      > The Short
                      > > Savage Life of a Civil War Guerrilla _, 126)
                      > >
                      > > Your contention about the wounds received is a non-story. Hackley
                      is
                      > > recalling something which happened sixty-one years before and one
                      > would
                      > > expect his details to be sketchy. You will note that his mother,
                      a
                      > cousin,
                      > > identified the body as Anderson's. By the way, the photographer
                      was
                      > Dr.
                      > > Robert Kice, a dentist in Richmond who had a sideline taking
                      > pictures. Not
                      > > Tice. Obviously the man who was photographed did not get shot
                      > though the
                      > > head from rear to front. The contemporary reports say twice in
                      the
                      > side of
                      > > the head, which is consistent with Anderson riding into Cox's
                      > lines, not in
                      > > the back, unless it was "friendly fire"!
                      > >
                      > > The finest historians on the Civil War in Missouri are Albert
                      > Castel, who
                      > > had published several well researched books on what William
                      > Freehling calls
                      > > "the world class guerilla war" in the state; Thomas Goodrich,
                      > especially his
                      > > _Black Flag: Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865
                      _;
                      > and
                      > > Michael Fellman, _ Inside War: The Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri
                      > During the
                      > > American Civil War _. They are in agreement that it was Anderson
                      > who was
                      > > killed near Albany, Mo., in October, 1864. The body was not
                      > mutilated,
                      > > except for the ring finger being cut off - which can be seen in
                      the
                      > photos.
                      > > Anderson was buried in an unmarked grave, after which some of the
                      > militia
                      > > urinated on it.
                      > >
                      > > BTW, did you write the biography in Wikipedia?
                      > >
                      > > Take care,
                      > >
                      > > Bob
                      > >
                      > > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                      > > 10643 Sperry Street
                      > > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                      > > 303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@
                      > >
                      > > And so to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always
                      in
                      > the name
                      > > of right and honour and peace, until the Gods are tired of blood
                      > and create
                      > > a race that can understand." - George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and
                      > Cleopatra"
                      > >
                      >
                    • Carl Williams
                      Jay, I note you say we quite a bit, and indeed, at least some of what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt Huddleston noticed this]. There
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 8, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jay, I note you say "we" quite a bit, and indeed, at least some of
                        what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt Huddleston
                        noticed this]. There is a scolding banner at Wikipedia that heads the
                        section "Anderson's death" which seems to be suggesting some writers
                        dial up the quality of the submissions. The words "Please improve it"
                        in that banner would have me concerned if I was involved.

                        The words "One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the Bloody
                        Bill Anderson story has been presented" definitely sound a bit
                        familiar. I suspect, for instance, the ombudsmen-types [whatever they
                        are called] that police at Wikipedia have noted that the facts are
                        presented in the first person for an article that is anonymous. Just
                        some signs that things are not up to snuff. Is this written by thee or
                        thine indeed?

                        I might have to sign up at Wikipedia, something that I have avoided up
                        till now.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Bill

                        Carl


                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                        > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet wounds.
                        > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the gunshots,
                        > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its aftermath. I
                        > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers helping
                        > me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly and
                        > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very limited,
                        > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course unable
                        > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I assure
                        > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the life
                        > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted and we
                        > are far from finished.
                        > Thank you,
                        > ~Jay~
                      • Jay Longley
                        I did post the facts on Wikipedia about the gunshot theories, with all of my sources, and also corrected some blatant errors in other parts of the article like
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I did post the facts on Wikipedia about the gunshot theories, with
                          all of my sources, and also corrected some blatant errors in other
                          parts of the article like where the previous "editor" had incorrectly
                          stated that Bloody Bill Anderson married Bush Smith in 1862. Anyone
                          who knows anything about Bill Anderson knows he married Bush Smith
                          during the winter of 1863/1864 although there is a little dispute
                          about the exact day of the marriage. If the "police at Wikipedia",
                          as you laughably refer to them, are concerned with any part of my
                          message then they can easily remove it or edit out the portions which
                          are mostly direct quotes attributed to the specific authors. Since
                          I don't know if the staff was directing their criticism of my
                          information or previous ones who recently filled the page with
                          inaccuracies, I am not "concerned" in the least.
                          By "we", I am referring to the other 75 or so people who are
                          participating in our investigation as well as to the family members
                          of Colonel William C. Anderson. Despite how you and our other
                          critics want to portray our investigation, it is not a "one-man
                          crusade" but rather a concerted effort to learn and share the truth
                          about Bloody Bill Anderson.
                          Thank you for your "concern".
                          ~Jay~




                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Jay, I note you say "we" quite a bit, and indeed, at least some of
                          > what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt
                          Huddleston
                          > noticed this]. There is a scolding banner at Wikipedia that heads
                          the
                          > section "Anderson's death" which seems to be suggesting some writers
                          > dial up the quality of the submissions. The words "Please improve
                          it"
                          > in that banner would have me concerned if I was involved.
                          >
                          > The words "One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the
                          Bloody
                          > Bill Anderson story has been presented" definitely sound a bit
                          > familiar. I suspect, for instance, the ombudsmen-types [whatever
                          they
                          > are called] that police at Wikipedia have noted that the facts are
                          > presented in the first person for an article that is anonymous. Just
                          > some signs that things are not up to snuff. Is this written by thee
                          or
                          > thine indeed?
                          >
                          > I might have to sign up at Wikipedia, something that I have avoided
                          up
                          > till now.
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Bill
                          >
                          > Carl
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                          > > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet
                          wounds.
                          > > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the
                          gunshots,
                          > > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its
                          aftermath. I
                          > > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers
                          helping
                          > > me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly
                          and
                          > > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very
                          limited,
                          > > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course
                          unable
                          > > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I
                          assure
                          > > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the
                          life
                          > > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted
                          and we
                          > > are far from finished.
                          > > Thank you,
                          > > ~Jay~
                          >
                        • Carl Williams
                          I was making some effort not to make any criticism not personal and apologize if it came off that way. But if I were you, I would get ready for slings and
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I was making some effort not to make any criticism 'not personal' and
                            apologize if it came off that way. But if I were you, I would get
                            ready for slings and arrows... chinks in your armor, well, they might
                            as well point be pointed out. That doesnt mean you can't be right.



                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > I did post the facts on Wikipedia about the gunshot theories, with
                            > all of my sources, and also corrected some blatant errors in other
                            > parts of the article like where the previous "editor" had incorrectly
                            > stated that Bloody Bill Anderson married Bush Smith in 1862. Anyone
                            > who knows anything about Bill Anderson knows he married Bush Smith
                            > during the winter of 1863/1864 although there is a little dispute
                            > about the exact day of the marriage. If the "police at Wikipedia",
                            > as you laughably refer to them, are concerned with any part of my
                            > message then they can easily remove it or edit out the portions which
                            > are mostly direct quotes attributed to the specific authors. Since
                            > I don't know if the staff was directing their criticism of my
                            > information or previous ones who recently filled the page with
                            > inaccuracies, I am not "concerned" in the least.
                            > By "we", I am referring to the other 75 or so people who are
                            > participating in our investigation as well as to the family members
                            > of Colonel William C. Anderson. Despite how you and our other
                            > critics want to portray our investigation, it is not a "one-man
                            > crusade" but rather a concerted effort to learn and share the truth
                            > about Bloody Bill Anderson.
                            > Thank you for your "concern".
                            > ~Jay~
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Jay, I note you say "we" quite a bit, and indeed, at least some of
                            > > what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt
                            > Huddleston
                            > > noticed this]. There is a scolding banner at Wikipedia that heads
                            > the
                            > > section "Anderson's death" which seems to be suggesting some writers
                            > > dial up the quality of the submissions. The words "Please improve
                            > it"
                            > > in that banner would have me concerned if I was involved.
                            > >
                            > > The words "One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the
                            > Bloody
                            > > Bill Anderson story has been presented" definitely sound a bit
                            > > familiar. I suspect, for instance, the ombudsmen-types [whatever
                            > they
                            > > are called] that police at Wikipedia have noted that the facts are
                            > > presented in the first person for an article that is anonymous. Just
                            > > some signs that things are not up to snuff. Is this written by thee
                            > or
                            > > thine indeed?
                            > >
                            > > I might have to sign up at Wikipedia, something that I have avoided
                            > up
                            > > till now.
                            > >
                            > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Bill
                            > >
                            > > Carl
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                            > > > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet
                            > wounds.
                            > > > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the
                            > gunshots,
                            > > > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its
                            > aftermath. I
                            > > > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers
                            > helping
                            > > > me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly
                            > and
                            > > > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very
                            > limited,
                            > > > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course
                            > unable
                            > > > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I
                            > assure
                            > > > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the
                            > life
                            > > > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted
                            > and we
                            > > > are far from finished.
                            > > > Thank you,
                            > > > ~Jay~
                            > >
                            >
                          • Jay Longley
                            Hi Carl. Thank you for explaining this to me. Your suggestion to watch out for slings and arrouws is well taken. During this past year, I have indeed been
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 12, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Carl. Thank you for explaining this to me. Your suggestion to
                              watch out for "slings and arrouws" is well taken. During this past
                              year, I have indeed been the receiver of more slander and liable that
                              I ever would have thought possible for simply stating the results of
                              our work to the public. I sincerely apologize to you, Carl, for
                              being defensive in regard to your message. It has become a habit, I
                              am afraid after receiving countless personal attacks, for me to be on
                              pins and needles waiting for the next knife blade to sink in. :)
                              Thanks again,
                              ~Jay~




                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > I was making some effort not to make any criticism 'not personal'
                              and
                              > apologize if it came off that way. But if I were you, I would get
                              > ready for slings and arrows... chinks in your armor, well, they
                              might
                              > as well point be pointed out. That doesnt mean you can't be right.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I did post the facts on Wikipedia about the gunshot theories,
                              with
                              > > all of my sources, and also corrected some blatant errors in
                              other
                              > > parts of the article like where the previous "editor" had
                              incorrectly
                              > > stated that Bloody Bill Anderson married Bush Smith in 1862.
                              Anyone
                              > > who knows anything about Bill Anderson knows he married Bush
                              Smith
                              > > during the winter of 1863/1864 although there is a little dispute
                              > > about the exact day of the marriage. If the "police at
                              Wikipedia",
                              > > as you laughably refer to them, are concerned with any part of my
                              > > message then they can easily remove it or edit out the portions
                              which
                              > > are mostly direct quotes attributed to the specific authors.
                              Since
                              > > I don't know if the staff was directing their criticism of my
                              > > information or previous ones who recently filled the page with
                              > > inaccuracies, I am not "concerned" in the least.
                              > > By "we", I am referring to the other 75 or so people who are
                              > > participating in our investigation as well as to the family
                              members
                              > > of Colonel William C. Anderson. Despite how you and our other
                              > > critics want to portray our investigation, it is not a "one-man
                              > > crusade" but rather a concerted effort to learn and share the
                              truth
                              > > about Bloody Bill Anderson.
                              > > Thank you for your "concern".
                              > > ~Jay~
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Jay, I note you say "we" quite a bit, and indeed, at least some
                              of
                              > > > what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt
                              > > Huddleston
                              > > > noticed this]. There is a scolding banner at Wikipedia that
                              heads
                              > > the
                              > > > section "Anderson's death" which seems to be suggesting some
                              writers
                              > > > dial up the quality of the submissions. The words "Please
                              improve
                              > > it"
                              > > > in that banner would have me concerned if I was involved.
                              > > >
                              > > > The words "One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the
                              > > Bloody
                              > > > Bill Anderson story has been presented" definitely sound a bit
                              > > > familiar. I suspect, for instance, the ombudsmen-types
                              [whatever
                              > > they
                              > > > are called] that police at Wikipedia have noted that the facts
                              are
                              > > > presented in the first person for an article that is anonymous.
                              Just
                              > > > some signs that things are not up to snuff. Is this written by
                              thee
                              > > or
                              > > > thine indeed?
                              > > >
                              > > > I might have to sign up at Wikipedia, something that I have
                              avoided
                              > > up
                              > > > till now.
                              > > >
                              > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Bill
                              > > >
                              > > > Carl
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley"
                              <jay_longley@>
                              > > > wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen
                              such
                              > > > > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet
                              > > wounds.
                              > > > > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the
                              > > gunshots,
                              > > > > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its
                              > > aftermath. I
                              > > > > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers
                              > > helping
                              > > > > me have gone over all of these other points fully and
                              thoroughly
                              > > and
                              > > > > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very
                              > > limited,
                              > > > > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course
                              > > unable
                              > > > > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I
                              > > assure
                              > > > > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into
                              the
                              > > life
                              > > > > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been
                              conducted
                              > > and we
                              > > > > are far from finished.
                              > > > > Thank you,
                              > > > > ~Jay~
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Carl Williams
                              just thought I d put this out there for anyone interested, an article about someone debunking a Booth conspiracy theory note that after seven days the article
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 25, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                just thought I'd put this out there for anyone interested, an article
                                about someone debunking a Booth conspiracy theory

                                note that after seven days the article is not available without a
                                subscription [but good at the moment]

                                http://tinyurl.com/34st2w
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.