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RE: [civilwarwest] Gunshots they claim killed Bill Anderson.

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  • Tom Mix
    Jay, Thanks for the fascinating accounts. Is there one that you agree with? If so why? If not, why not? I don t know as much about Anderson and Missouri as I
    Message 1 of 29 , Apr 28, 2007
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      Jay,

      Thanks for the fascinating accounts. Is there one that you agree with? If so why? If not, why not?

      I don’t know as much about Anderson and Missouri as I do other areas of the war. I found your information very interesting and informative.

      Tom

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jay Longley
      Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 6:48 PM
      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [civilwarwest] Gunshots they claim killed Bill Anderson.

       

      One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the Bloody Bill
      Anderson story has been presented by historians and writers for over
      140 years, has been the many contradictory accounts of both the
      number of gunshots and the location of gunshot wounds these writers
      claim killed Bloody Bill Anderson in the ambush near Orrick, Missouri
      on October 26th or 27th depending on which story you believe. Going
      back through my notes on this event, I came across over a dozen
      different and contradictory stories of both the number of gunshots
      this guerrilla was said to have taken and their location on the body.
      The contradictions are quite obvious and the differences are as
      numerous as the writers who told about these very important gunshots.
      If one accepts that Bloody Bill Anderson was killed in this ambush,
      which I don't, then it must be amply certain that only one of these
      reports can possibly be the true account. I will give you all just a
      sampling of these accounts and will leave it up to those who have
      written and published these opposing versions to explain their
      positions and give their sources.
      ****

      The following article was written, on October 8, 1989, by Lorene
      Bishop who was a writer for the Brownwood Bulletin and President of
      the Brown County Historical Society. Lorene Bishop, as almost every
      reputable Brown County historian believed firmly that Bloody Bill
      Anderson lived out his life in Brown County, Texas until his death in
      1927. I am posting only the portion of Bishop's book that deals with
      the ambush below as told by James S. Hackley:

      "... The existence of the Bill Anderson of Texas that became known to
      Missourians in 1924 when a short article about him appeared in The
      Houston Post and was copied in Missouri papers. At once Colonel
      James S. Hackley, an early settler of Mobeby Missouri present his
      knowledge of the facts preceeding the slaying. His story indicates
      that the guerrilla's body was identified by his, Hackley's mother, a
      cousin of the slain Confederate irregular...
      Four weeks later we drove to Richmond to my mother's brother. When
      my uncle came out to greet my mother, a boy ran up and said that Bill
      Anderson had been killed and his body was at Tice's gallery.
      We went to Tice's gallery. When my mother saw the blood on
      Anderson's face, and his clotted hair, she pleaded that the picture
      not be taken until she had washed his face and combed his hair. Her
      plea was refused by Captain Cox, who was present and claimed to have
      killed Anderson.
      Anderson was buried in Richmond. The bullet that ended his life
      struck him in the back of his head and came out through his
      forehead.' "

      (This account says ONE bullet "struck him in the back of the head and
      came out through his forehead.")
      ***

      This next account is from the War of the Rebellion Records and comes
      from no other that Lt. Colonel S.P. Cox himself.

      "Report of Lieut. Col. Samuel P. Cox, Thirty-third Infanty Enrolled
      Missouri Militia.
      Richmond, Mo., October 27, 1864.

      DEAR SIR: We have the honor to report the result of our expedition on
      yesterday against the notorious bushwhacker, William T. Anderson and
      his forces, near Albany, in the soutwest corner of this county (Ray).
      Learning his whereabouts we struck camp on yesterday morning
      and made a forced march and came in contact with their pickets about
      a mile this side of Albany; drove them in and through Albany and into
      the woods beyond. We dismounted our men in the town, threw our
      infantry force into the woods beyond, sending a cavalry advance who
      engaged the enemy and fell back, when Anderson and his fiendish gang,
      about 300 strong, raised the Indian yell and came in full speed upon
      our lines, shooting and yelling as they came. Our lines held their
      position without a break.The notorious bushwhacker, Anderson, and one
      of his men, supposed to be Captain Rains, son of General Rains,
      charged through our lines. Anderson was killed and fell some fifty
      steps in our rear, receiving two balls in the side of the head. Rains
      made his escape and their forces retreated in full speed, being
      completely routed; our cavalry pursued them some ten miles, finding
      the road strewn with blood for miles. We hear of them scattered in
      various directions, some considerable force of them making thier way
      toward Richfield, in Clay County. We capured on Anderson private
      papers and orders from General Price that identify him beyond a
      doubt.
      I have the honor to report that my officers and me conducted
      themselves well and fought bravely on the field. We had 4 men
      wounded; lost none. The forces of my command consisted of a portion
      of Major Grimes, of Ray County, Fifty first Regiment Enrolled
      Missouri Militia, and a portion of the Thirty-Third Enrolled Missouri
      Militia, from Daviess and Caldwell Counties.

      Respectfully yours,

      S.P. COX
      Lieut. Col., Comdg. Thirty-third Regt. Enrolled Missouri
      Militia.
      GENERAL CRAIG

      (This one claims Anderson was hit with "two balls in the side of the
      head." Quite a feat of markmanship I would say.)

      ***
      The next is from a message by one of the members of our Bloody Bill
      Anderson Mystery group, Laura Anderson Way, in which she quotes Paul
      Petersen.

      "The following is from the book "Quantrill of Missouri" by Paul
      Petersen, page 392 and 393."

      "In late October, in Ray County, Anderson saw the report that Price
      had been defeated and that George Todd had been killed. On October 24
      he determined to punish the Federals for the Southern defeat at
      Westport."

      "Harrison Trow recalled that William Smith, a veteran guerrilla with
      four years' experience, rode next to Anderson. Trow claimed that five
      bullets struck Smith and three struck Anderson, and at the end of the
      fight, both men were dead."

      (Here Trow is quoted as saying "three (bullets) struck Anderson.
      Another strange fact is that, while this report claims William Smith
      was killed in this ambush, Smith's name appears nowhere on the
      monument erected to the guerrillas killed that day.)

      ***
      From: http://www.history. com/tdih. do?action= tdihArticleYear& id=2366

      "...Anderson went to Texas that winter, got married, and returned to
      Missouri in 1864 with a band of about 50 fighters. Anderson embarked
      on a summer of violence, leading his group on a campaign that killed
      hundreds and caused extensive damage. The climax came on September 27
      when Anderson's gang joined with several others to pillage the town
      of Centralia, Missouri. When more than 100 Union soldiers pursued
      them, the guerillas ambushed and massacred the entire detachment.
      Just a month later, Anderson's band was caught in a Union ambush
      outside of Albany, Missouri, and Anderson was killed by two bullets
      to his head. The body of the "blood-drenched savage," as he became
      known in the area, was placed on public display. Anderson kept a rope
      to record his killings, and there were 54 knots in it at the time of
      his death..."

      ***

      From:
      http://www.bullshid o.net/modules. php?
      name=Reviews& file=viewarticle &id=291

      Adult language is used on that site.

      "...After completely decimating the town, he moved his men to the
      south of town and set up an ambush for 150 Union Calvary men moving
      in after him. They killed 116 of them. They shot them through the
      head, then scalped them and thrust them with bayonets. They even
      chopped of ears and noses.

      On October 27th 1864, Anderson was ambushed by Captain S.P.Cox and
      his Union troops. He and one other man charged the line guns blazing.
      His horse was shot and he bit the dust, he was then shot in the back
      of the head 2 times. His body was taken to Richmond, Missouri where
      they decapitated his corpse and stuck his head on a telegraph pole.
      His body was then dragged through the streets and dumped in an
      unmarked grave.

      Bloody Bill was passionate, angry and ruthless ~ described by Jim
      Cummins as "The most desperate man I ever met." "

      (This one seems to be saying Anderson's horse "bit the dust" and then
      Anderson was executed with two shots in the back of the head.)

      ***

      http://www.civilwar history.com/ quantrill/ anderson. htm

      "While leading his guerilla band near Orrick, Missouri on October
      27th 1864, Anderson was ambushed by Captain S.P.Cox and his Union
      troops. Anderson was caught completely unaware and was riddled with
      bullets then left for dead in his saddle. His loyal followers put up
      a fight to try and recover Anderson's corpse, but they were driven
      back by superior firepower.

      Anderson's body was taken to Richmond, Missouri where it was propped
      up in a chair and a pistol was placed in the dead man's hand then
      photographs were taken. A short while later, the Union troopers, full
      of loathing for the dead man, decapitated Anderson and impaled his
      head on a telegraph pole at the entrance to the town as a signature
      to all that the infamous killer was indeed dead. Anderson's torso was
      roped and tied to a horse then dragged along the streets of Richmond
      before being dumped in an unmarked grave outside of town."

      (This is just one of many accounts that claim that Bill Anderson's
      body was "riddled with bullets".)

      ***

      Carl W. Breihan tells the story a little different in his account
      from page 78 of his "Killer Legions of Quantrill", 1971, by saying
      the following:

      "...Anderson was the first to fall, his body caught in a crossfire
      and riddled as he toppled from the saddle..."

      ***

      If it weren't for the seriousness of this historical event, all of
      these different and contradictory accounts would be laughable. To say
      the least, EVERY writer who has made money selling books containing a
      version of this ambush story owes the American public an explanation
      for writing whatever tale he/she chose to tell in the book(s),
      regarding the way they claim Bloody Bill Anderson was killed that
      day. They should step forward and give their sources for this
      misinformation.
      Thank you,
      ~Jay~

    • keeno2@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/30/2007 5:41:42 PM Central Daylight Time, jay_longley@yahoo.com writes: Hi Ken. They went to great lengths to photograph the body of the
      Message 2 of 29 , Apr 30, 2007
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        In a message dated 4/30/2007 5:41:42 PM Central Daylight Time, jay_longley@... writes:
        Hi Ken.  They went to great lengths to photograph the body of the guerrilla killed so there should have been at least one accurate account of the bullet wounds on it.  Bloody Bill Anderson was the most hunted guerrilla leader at the time so it is unreasonable for me to accept their excuse that he was dumped in a grave without analyzing the cause of death, the number and location of all wounds to the body.
        If there is photographic record of the wounds, that really ought to point to which account is more accurate. Oughtn't it? Interesting bit of trivia, by the way. Like to read these things that are seemingly trivial, but I'm a freak for accuracy, even if I don't much care what actually happened to Bloody Bill.
         
        Ken




        See what's free at AOL.com.
      • Jay Longley
        Hi Ken. There were a few poses taken of the guerrilla killed that day who they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson. We have thoroughly analyzed each of these
        Message 3 of 29 , May 1, 2007
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          Hi Ken. There were a few poses taken of the guerrilla killed that
          day who they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson. We have thoroughly
          analyzed each of these photographs and the body looks like that of a
          man getting ready to go out on the town and shows no bloodstained
          clothes or solid evidence of either entrance or exit wounds. A book
          could be written about these photographs alone and the many questions
          they raise. I share your appreciation for accuracy in history and
          assure you that the more you look into the traditional Bloody Bill
          Anderson stories, the more inaccuracies you will discover. After a
          year of researching and investigating Bloody Bill Anderson's life, I
          have found it is the most fascinating historical study I have ever
          taken part in.
          Thanks,
          ~Jay~



          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 4/30/2007 5:41:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
          > jay_longley@... writes:
          >
          > Hi Ken. They went to great lengths to photograph the body of the
          guerrilla
          > killed so there should have been at least one accurate account of
          the bullet
          > wounds on it. Bloody Bill Anderson was the most hunted guerrilla
          leader at the
          > time so it is unreasonable for me to accept their excuse that he
          was dumped in
          > a grave without analyzing the cause of death, the number and
          location of all
          > wounds to the body.
          >
          > If there is photographic record of the wounds, that really ought to
          point to
          > which account is more accurate. Oughtn't it? Interesting bit of
          trivia, by the
          > way. Like to read these things that are seemingly trivial, but I'm
          a freak
          > for accuracy, even if I don't much care what actually happened to
          Bloody Bill.
          >
          > Ken
          >
          >
          >
          > ************************************** See what's free at
          http://www.aol.com
          >
        • Carl Williams
          As for the thought that maybe people at the time did not think an autopsy was important, you *should* look at Booth s autopsy. This was conducted on the
          Message 4 of 29 , May 3, 2007
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            As for the thought that maybe people at the time did not think an
            autopsy was important, you *should* look at Booth's autopsy. This was
            conducted on the monitor Montauk and every effort was made to show the
            public the body was clearly Booth's [see link below]. This means my
            memory was wrong about Booth's autopsy, but I've delved a little
            deeper and it seems that maybe some controversy was stirred up over
            Mudd's identifying a different limb as broken? [can't seem to get this
            straight using the internet].
            In any case, people at the time would have known identifying Anderson
            properly was important. It is a fact that the law in general by this
            time placed great value on such proper identification, it having such
            impact on murder charges, life insurance claims, etc. Of course one
            would suspect that on the Frontier, there were bigger problems doing
            things properly.

            http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln83.html

            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi Ken. There were a few poses taken of the guerrilla killed that
            > day who they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson. We have thoroughly
            > analyzed each of these photographs and the body looks like that of a
            > man getting ready to go out on the town and shows no bloodstained
            > clothes or solid evidence of either entrance or exit wounds. A book
            > could be written about these photographs alone and the many questions
            > they raise. I share your appreciation for accuracy in history and
            > assure you that the more you look into the traditional Bloody Bill
            > Anderson stories, the more inaccuracies you will discover. After a
            > year of researching and investigating Bloody Bill Anderson's life, I
            > have found it is the most fascinating historical study I have ever
            > taken part in.
            > Thanks,
            > ~Jay~
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@ wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > In a message dated 4/30/2007 5:41:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
            > > jay_longley@ writes:
            > >
            > > Hi Ken. They went to great lengths to photograph the body of the
            > guerrilla
            > > killed so there should have been at least one accurate account of
            > the bullet
            > > wounds on it. Bloody Bill Anderson was the most hunted guerrilla
            > leader at the
            > > time so it is unreasonable for me to accept their excuse that he
            > was dumped in
            > > a grave without analyzing the cause of death, the number and
            > location of all
            > > wounds to the body.
            > >
            > > If there is photographic record of the wounds, that really ought to
            > point to
            > > which account is more accurate. Oughtn't it? Interesting bit of
            > trivia, by the
            > > way. Like to read these things that are seemingly trivial, but I'm
            > a freak
            > > for accuracy, even if I don't much care what actually happened to
            > Bloody Bill.
            > >
            > > Ken
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ************************************** See what's free at
            > http://www.aol.com
            > >
            >
          • James W. Durney
            ... was ... the ... this ... Anderson ... such ... Lincoln s killer and Blood Bill Anderson and not in the same league when it comes to handling their body.
            Message 5 of 29 , May 4, 2007
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              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > As for the thought that maybe people at the time did not think an
              > autopsy was important, you *should* look at Booth's autopsy. This
              was
              > conducted on the monitor Montauk and every effort was made to show
              the
              > public the body was clearly Booth's [see link below]. This means my
              > memory was wrong about Booth's autopsy, but I've delved a little
              > deeper and it seems that maybe some controversy was stirred up over
              > Mudd's identifying a different limb as broken? [can't seem to get
              this
              > straight using the internet].
              > In any case, people at the time would have known identifying
              Anderson
              > properly was important. It is a fact that the law in general by this
              > time placed great value on such proper identification, it having
              such
              > impact on murder charges, life insurance claims, etc. Of course one
              > would suspect that on the Frontier, there were bigger problems doing
              > things properly.
              >

              Lincoln's killer and Blood Bill Anderson and not in the same league
              when it comes to handling their body. As you stated "on the
              Frontier" things were different than in Washington. In addition,
              after the "Yup, that's him" what more would you have expected of them?

              James
            • Jay Longley
              Hello Carl. Thank you for your interesting and correct analysis of the importance of properly noting the way that this guerrilla, who they claimed was Bloody
              Message 6 of 29 , May 5, 2007
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                Hello Carl. Thank you for your interesting and correct analysis of
                the importance of properly noting the way that this guerrilla, who
                they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson, was killed. History clearly
                shows that Bill Anderson was the most hunted guerrilla leader,
                probably even the most hunted person, in Missouri at the time. The
                Official Records are full of desperate attempts to stop him. Add to
                this the fact that the Yankees mis-identified other guerrillas as
                being Bloody Bill Anderson on at least two other occasions make
                accuracy of extreme importance.
                ~Jay~





                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > As for the thought that maybe people at the time did not think an
                > autopsy was important, you *should* look at Booth's autopsy. This
                was
                > conducted on the monitor Montauk and every effort was made to show
                the
                > public the body was clearly Booth's [see link below]. This means my
                > memory was wrong about Booth's autopsy, but I've delved a little
                > deeper and it seems that maybe some controversy was stirred up over
                > Mudd's identifying a different limb as broken? [can't seem to get
                this
                > straight using the internet].
                > In any case, people at the time would have known identifying
                Anderson
                > properly was important. It is a fact that the law in general by this
                > time placed great value on such proper identification, it having
                such
                > impact on murder charges, life insurance claims, etc. Of course one
                > would suspect that on the Frontier, there were bigger problems doing
                > things properly.
                >
                > http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln83.html
                >
                > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Ken. There were a few poses taken of the guerrilla killed
                that
                > > day who they claimed was Bloody Bill Anderson. We have
                thoroughly
                > > analyzed each of these photographs and the body looks like that
                of a
                > > man getting ready to go out on the town and shows no bloodstained
                > > clothes or solid evidence of either entrance or exit wounds. A
                book
                > > could be written about these photographs alone and the many
                questions
                > > they raise. I share your appreciation for accuracy in history
                and
                > > assure you that the more you look into the traditional Bloody
                Bill
                > > Anderson stories, the more inaccuracies you will discover. After
                a
                > > year of researching and investigating Bloody Bill Anderson's
                life, I
                > > have found it is the most fascinating historical study I have
                ever
                > > taken part in.
                > > Thanks,
                > > ~Jay~
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@ wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > In a message dated 4/30/2007 5:41:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
                > > > jay_longley@ writes:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Ken. They went to great lengths to photograph the body of
                the
                > > guerrilla
                > > > killed so there should have been at least one accurate account
                of
                > > the bullet
                > > > wounds on it. Bloody Bill Anderson was the most hunted
                guerrilla
                > > leader at the
                > > > time so it is unreasonable for me to accept their excuse that
                he
                > > was dumped in
                > > > a grave without analyzing the cause of death, the number and
                > > location of all
                > > > wounds to the body.
                > > >
                > > > If there is photographic record of the wounds, that really
                ought to
                > > point to
                > > > which account is more accurate. Oughtn't it? Interesting bit of
                > > trivia, by the
                > > > way. Like to read these things that are seemingly trivial, but
                I'm
                > > a freak
                > > > for accuracy, even if I don't much care what actually happened
                to
                > > Bloody Bill.
                > > >
                > > > Ken
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ************************************** See what's free at
                > > http://www.aol.com
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Jay Longley
                Hi Tom. I firmly believe that our in-depth investigation has proven that Bloody Bill Anderson was not killed in 1864. I believe he escaped, as he admitted in
                Message 7 of 29 , May 5, 2007
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                  Hi Tom. I firmly believe that our in-depth investigation has proven
                  that Bloody Bill Anderson was not killed in 1864. I believe he
                  escaped, as he admitted in his 1924 interviews with Henry C. Fuller,
                  and settled in Brown County in central Texas. I wish to thank you
                  for taking the time necessary to study this one point of the ambush
                  stories. If you will email me privately, I will reply with the way
                  to access our information.

                  jay_longley@...

                  ~Jay~





                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Jay,
                  >
                  > Thanks for the fascinating accounts. Is there one that you agree
                  with? If so
                  > why? If not, why not?
                  >
                  > I don't know as much about Anderson and Missouri as I do other
                  areas of the
                  > war. I found your information very interesting and informative.
                  >
                  > Tom
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of Jay Longley
                  > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 6:48 PM
                  > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [civilwarwest] Gunshots they claim killed Bill Anderson.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the Bloody Bill
                  > Anderson story has been presented by historians and writers for
                  over
                  > 140 years, has been the many contradictory accounts of both the
                  > number of gunshots and the location of gunshot wounds these writers
                  > claim killed Bloody Bill Anderson in the ambush near Orrick,
                  Missouri
                  > on October 26th or 27th depending on which story you believe. Going
                  > back through my notes on this event, I came across over a dozen
                  > different and contradictory stories of both the number of gunshots
                  > this guerrilla was said to have taken and their location on the
                  body.
                  > The contradictions are quite obvious and the differences are as
                  > numerous as the writers who told about these very important
                  gunshots.
                  > If one accepts that Bloody Bill Anderson was killed in this ambush,
                  > which I don't, then it must be amply certain that only one of these
                  > reports can possibly be the true account. I will give you all just
                  a
                  > sampling of these accounts and will leave it up to those who have
                  > written and published these opposing versions to explain their
                  > positions and give their sources.
                  > ****
                  >
                  > The following article was written, on October 8, 1989, by Lorene
                  > Bishop who was a writer for the Brownwood Bulletin and President of
                  > the Brown County Historical Society. Lorene Bishop, as almost every
                  > reputable Brown County historian believed firmly that Bloody Bill
                  > Anderson lived out his life in Brown County, Texas until his death
                  in
                  > 1927. I am posting only the portion of Bishop's book that deals
                  with
                  > the ambush below as told by James S. Hackley:
                  >
                  > "... The existence of the Bill Anderson of Texas that became known
                  to
                  > Missourians in 1924 when a short article about him appeared in The
                  > Houston Post and was copied in Missouri papers. At once Colonel
                  > James S. Hackley, an early settler of Mobeby Missouri present his
                  > knowledge of the facts preceeding the slaying. His story indicates
                  > that the guerrilla's body was identified by his, Hackley's mother,
                  a
                  > cousin of the slain Confederate irregular...
                  > Four weeks later we drove to Richmond to my mother's brother. When
                  > my uncle came out to greet my mother, a boy ran up and said that
                  Bill
                  > Anderson had been killed and his body was at Tice's gallery.
                  > We went to Tice's gallery. When my mother saw the blood on
                  > Anderson's face, and his clotted hair, she pleaded that the picture
                  > not be taken until she had washed his face and combed his hair. Her
                  > plea was refused by Captain Cox, who was present and claimed to
                  have
                  > killed Anderson.
                  > Anderson was buried in Richmond. The bullet that ended his life
                  > struck him in the back of his head and came out through his
                  > forehead.' "
                  >
                  > (This account says ONE bullet "struck him in the back of the head
                  and
                  > came out through his forehead.")
                  > ***
                  >
                  > This next account is from the War of the Rebellion Records and
                  comes
                  > from no other that Lt. Colonel S.P. Cox himself.
                  >
                  > "Report of Lieut. Col. Samuel P. Cox, Thirty-third Infanty Enrolled
                  > Missouri Militia.
                  > Richmond, Mo., October 27, 1864.
                  >
                  > DEAR SIR: We have the honor to report the result of our expedition
                  on
                  > yesterday against the notorious bushwhacker, William T. Anderson
                  and
                  > his forces, near Albany, in the soutwest corner of this county
                  (Ray).
                  > Learning his whereabouts we struck camp on yesterday morning
                  > and made a forced march and came in contact with their pickets
                  about
                  > a mile this side of Albany; drove them in and through Albany and
                  into
                  > the woods beyond. We dismounted our men in the town, threw our
                  > infantry force into the woods beyond, sending a cavalry advance who
                  > engaged the enemy and fell back, when Anderson and his fiendish
                  gang,
                  > about 300 strong, raised the Indian yell and came in full speed
                  upon
                  > our lines, shooting and yelling as they came. Our lines held their
                  > position without a break.The notorious bushwhacker, Anderson, and
                  one
                  > of his men, supposed to be Captain Rains, son of General Rains,
                  > charged through our lines. Anderson was killed and fell some fifty
                  > steps in our rear, receiving two balls in the side of the head.
                  Rains
                  > made his escape and their forces retreated in full speed, being
                  > completely routed; our cavalry pursued them some ten miles, finding
                  > the road strewn with blood for miles. We hear of them scattered in
                  > various directions, some considerable force of them making thier
                  way
                  > toward Richfield, in Clay County. We capured on Anderson private
                  > papers and orders from General Price that identify him beyond a
                  > doubt.
                  > I have the honor to report that my officers and me conducted
                  > themselves well and fought bravely on the field. We had 4 men
                  > wounded; lost none. The forces of my command consisted of a portion
                  > of Major Grimes, of Ray County, Fifty first Regiment Enrolled
                  > Missouri Militia, and a portion of the Thirty-Third Enrolled
                  Missouri
                  > Militia, from Daviess and Caldwell Counties.
                  >
                  > Respectfully yours,
                  >
                  > S.P. COX
                  > Lieut. Col., Comdg. Thirty-third Regt. Enrolled Missouri
                  > Militia.
                  > GENERAL CRAIG
                  >
                  > (This one claims Anderson was hit with "two balls in the side of
                  the
                  > head." Quite a feat of markmanship I would say.)
                  >
                  > ***
                  > The next is from a message by one of the members of our Bloody Bill
                  > Anderson Mystery group, Laura Anderson Way, in which she quotes
                  Paul
                  > Petersen.
                  >
                  > "The following is from the book "Quantrill of Missouri" by Paul
                  > Petersen, page 392 and 393."
                  >
                  > "In late October, in Ray County, Anderson saw the report that Price
                  > had been defeated and that George Todd had been killed. On October
                  24
                  > he determined to punish the Federals for the Southern defeat at
                  > Westport."
                  >
                  > "Harrison Trow recalled that William Smith, a veteran guerrilla
                  with
                  > four years' experience, rode next to Anderson. Trow claimed that
                  five
                  > bullets struck Smith and three struck Anderson, and at the end of
                  the
                  > fight, both men were dead."
                  >
                  > (Here Trow is quoted as saying "three (bullets) struck Anderson.
                  > Another strange fact is that, while this report claims William
                  Smith
                  > was killed in this ambush, Smith's name appears nowhere on the
                  > monument erected to the guerrillas killed that day.)
                  >
                  > ***
                  > From: http://www.history
                  > <http://www.history.com/tdih.do?action=tdihArticleYear&id=2366>
                  > com/tdih.do?action=tdihArticleYear&id=2366
                  >
                  > "...Anderson went to Texas that winter, got married, and returned
                  to
                  > Missouri in 1864 with a band of about 50 fighters. Anderson
                  embarked
                  > on a summer of violence, leading his group on a campaign that
                  killed
                  > hundreds and caused extensive damage. The climax came on September
                  27
                  > when Anderson's gang joined with several others to pillage the town
                  > of Centralia, Missouri. When more than 100 Union soldiers pursued
                  > them, the guerillas ambushed and massacred the entire detachment.
                  > Just a month later, Anderson's band was caught in a Union ambush
                  > outside of Albany, Missouri, and Anderson was killed by two bullets
                  > to his head. The body of the "blood-drenched savage," as he became
                  > known in the area, was placed on public display. Anderson kept a
                  rope
                  > to record his killings, and there were 54 knots in it at the time
                  of
                  > his death..."
                  >
                  > ***
                  >
                  > From:
                  > http://www.bullshid <http://www.bullshido.net/modules.>
                  o.net/modules. php?
                  > name=Reviews& file=viewarticle &id=291
                  >
                  > Adult language is used on that site.
                  >
                  > "...After completely decimating the town, he moved his men to the
                  > south of town and set up an ambush for 150 Union Calvary men moving
                  > in after him. They killed 116 of them. They shot them through the
                  > head, then scalped them and thrust them with bayonets. They even
                  > chopped of ears and noses.
                  >
                  > On October 27th 1864, Anderson was ambushed by Captain S.P.Cox and
                  > his Union troops. He and one other man charged the line guns
                  blazing.
                  > His horse was shot and he bit the dust, he was then shot in the
                  back
                  > of the head 2 times. His body was taken to Richmond, Missouri where
                  > they decapitated his corpse and stuck his head on a telegraph pole.
                  > His body was then dragged through the streets and dumped in an
                  > unmarked grave.
                  >
                  > Bloody Bill was passionate, angry and ruthless ~ described by Jim
                  > Cummins as "The most desperate man I ever met." "
                  >
                  > (This one seems to be saying Anderson's horse "bit the dust" and
                  then
                  > Anderson was executed with two shots in the back of the head.)
                  >
                  > ***
                  >
                  > http://www.civilwar
                  <http://www.civilwarhistory.com/quantrill/anderson.htm>
                  > history.com/quantrill/anderson.htm
                  >
                  > "While leading his guerilla band near Orrick, Missouri on October
                  > 27th 1864, Anderson was ambushed by Captain S.P.Cox and his Union
                  > troops. Anderson was caught completely unaware and was riddled with
                  > bullets then left for dead in his saddle. His loyal followers put
                  up
                  > a fight to try and recover Anderson's corpse, but they were driven
                  > back by superior firepower.
                  >
                  > Anderson's body was taken to Richmond, Missouri where it was
                  propped
                  > up in a chair and a pistol was placed in the dead man's hand then
                  > photographs were taken. A short while later, the Union troopers,
                  full
                  > of loathing for the dead man, decapitated Anderson and impaled his
                  > head on a telegraph pole at the entrance to the town as a signature
                  > to all that the infamous killer was indeed dead. Anderson's torso
                  was
                  > roped and tied to a horse then dragged along the streets of
                  Richmond
                  > before being dumped in an unmarked grave outside of town."
                  >
                  > (This is just one of many accounts that claim that Bill Anderson's
                  > body was "riddled with bullets".)
                  >
                  > ***
                  >
                  > Carl W. Breihan tells the story a little different in his account
                  > from page 78 of his "Killer Legions of Quantrill", 1971, by saying
                  > the following:
                  >
                  > "...Anderson was the first to fall, his body caught in a crossfire
                  > and riddled as he toppled from the saddle..."
                  >
                  > ***
                  >
                  > If it weren't for the seriousness of this historical event, all of
                  > these different and contradictory accounts would be laughable. To
                  say
                  > the least, EVERY writer who has made money selling books containing
                  a
                  > version of this ambush story owes the American public an
                  explanation
                  > for writing whatever tale he/she chose to tell in the book(s),
                  > regarding the way they claim Bloody Bill Anderson was killed that
                  > day. They should step forward and give their sources for this
                  > misinformation.
                  > Thank you,
                  > ~Jay~
                  >
                • Bob Huddleston
                  Of your sources, only two are of any value: Col. Cox s after action report and the 1924 newspaper account of Col. Hackley. (I assume it is a typo - the town is
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 6, 2007
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                    Of your sources, only two are of any value: Col. Cox's after action report
                    and the 1924 newspaper account of Col. Hackley. (I assume it is a typo - the
                    town is "Mobley").

                    Unless there are good footnotes that you did not supply, none of the
                    secondary accounts are worth anything. The closest would be Harrison Trow.
                    However, his book, _Charles W. Quantrell; a True History of His Guerrilla
                    Warfare on the Missouri and Kansas Border During the Civil War of 1861-1865
                    _, published in 1923, is a mishmash of rumor and legend. His recounting of
                    Anderson's death reads like a movie and does not conform to either Cox's
                    after action report, or other contemporary accounts. And as near as I can
                    determine, he was not with Anderson in Ray County - indeed I could not
                    determine if he was even with Quantrell during Price's Raid.

                    You missed some other OR references to Anderson's demise. Samuel P. Cox was
                    major of the First Battalion, Missouri State Militia from April 1862 until
                    his resignation in January 1864. James Craig, commander of the "Enrolled
                    Missouri Militia" (it requires a score card to keep track of all the
                    different versions of troops, both Yankee and Rebel in Missouri!), asked Cox
                    to serve without pay or commission, and get Anderson. Cox did.

                    According to Craig, Cox secured from Anderson's body his pocket note book,
                    containing letters from his wife, two orders to Anderson from Price, and a
                    locket of his wife's hair. The body was identified by several residents
                    while it was lying at the Richmond Court House. (Craig to Rosecrans's
                    adjutant general, 30 October 1864, 86 OR 334). In addition, a report on the
                    fight mentions a Confederate flag with an inscription from a female admirer,
                    "Presented to W. L. (sic) Anderson by his friend, F.M.R. Let it not be
                    contaminated by Fed. Hands." (See Castel, _Bloody Bill Anderson: The Short
                    Savage Life of a Civil War Guerrilla _, 126)

                    Your contention about the wounds received is a non-story. Hackley is
                    recalling something which happened sixty-one years before and one would
                    expect his details to be sketchy. You will note that his mother, a cousin,
                    identified the body as Anderson's. By the way, the photographer was Dr.
                    Robert Kice, a dentist in Richmond who had a sideline taking pictures. Not
                    Tice. Obviously the man who was photographed did not get shot though the
                    head from rear to front. The contemporary reports say twice in the side of
                    the head, which is consistent with Anderson riding into Cox's lines, not in
                    the back, unless it was "friendly fire"!

                    The finest historians on the Civil War in Missouri are Albert Castel, who
                    had published several well researched books on what William Freehling calls
                    "the world class guerilla war" in the state; Thomas Goodrich, especially his
                    _Black Flag: Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865 _; and
                    Michael Fellman, _ Inside War: The Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri During the
                    American Civil War _. They are in agreement that it was Anderson who was
                    killed near Albany, Mo., in October, 1864. The body was not mutilated,
                    except for the ring finger being cut off - which can be seen in the photos.
                    Anderson was buried in an unmarked grave, after which some of the militia
                    urinated on it.

                    BTW, did you write the biography in Wikipedia?

                    Take care,

                    Bob

                    Judy and Bob Huddleston
                    10643 Sperry Street
                    Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                    303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...

                    And so to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always in the name
                    of right and honour and peace, until the Gods are tired of blood and create
                    a race that can understand." - George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and Cleopatra"
                  • Jay Longley
                    Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet wounds. My original message dealt
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 6, 2007
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                      Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                      contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet wounds.
                      My original message dealt only with this specific part, the gunshots,
                      of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its aftermath. I
                      have read most of the books you mention and the researchers helping
                      me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly and
                      are still actively working on them. Since my time is very limited,
                      by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course unable
                      to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I assure
                      you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the life
                      and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted and we
                      are far from finished.
                      Thank you,
                      ~Jay~




                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Huddleston"
                      <huddleston.r@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Of your sources, only two are of any value: Col. Cox's after action
                      report
                      > and the 1924 newspaper account of Col. Hackley. (I assume it is a
                      typo - the
                      > town is "Mobley").
                      >
                      > Unless there are good footnotes that you did not supply, none of the
                      > secondary accounts are worth anything. The closest would be
                      Harrison Trow.
                      > However, his book, _Charles W. Quantrell; a True History of His
                      Guerrilla
                      > Warfare on the Missouri and Kansas Border During the Civil War of
                      1861-1865
                      > _, published in 1923, is a mishmash of rumor and legend. His
                      recounting of
                      > Anderson's death reads like a movie and does not conform to either
                      Cox's
                      > after action report, or other contemporary accounts. And as near as
                      I can
                      > determine, he was not with Anderson in Ray County - indeed I could
                      not
                      > determine if he was even with Quantrell during Price's Raid.
                      >
                      > You missed some other OR references to Anderson's demise. Samuel P.
                      Cox was
                      > major of the First Battalion, Missouri State Militia from April
                      1862 until
                      > his resignation in January 1864. James Craig, commander of
                      the "Enrolled
                      > Missouri Militia" (it requires a score card to keep track of all the
                      > different versions of troops, both Yankee and Rebel in Missouri!),
                      asked Cox
                      > to serve without pay or commission, and get Anderson. Cox did.
                      >
                      > According to Craig, Cox secured from Anderson's body his pocket
                      note book,
                      > containing letters from his wife, two orders to Anderson from
                      Price, and a
                      > locket of his wife's hair. The body was identified by several
                      residents
                      > while it was lying at the Richmond Court House. (Craig to
                      Rosecrans's
                      > adjutant general, 30 October 1864, 86 OR 334). In addition, a
                      report on the
                      > fight mentions a Confederate flag with an inscription from a female
                      admirer,
                      > "Presented to W. L. (sic) Anderson by his friend, F.M.R. Let it not
                      be
                      > contaminated by Fed. Hands." (See Castel, _Bloody Bill Anderson:
                      The Short
                      > Savage Life of a Civil War Guerrilla _, 126)
                      >
                      > Your contention about the wounds received is a non-story. Hackley is
                      > recalling something which happened sixty-one years before and one
                      would
                      > expect his details to be sketchy. You will note that his mother, a
                      cousin,
                      > identified the body as Anderson's. By the way, the photographer was
                      Dr.
                      > Robert Kice, a dentist in Richmond who had a sideline taking
                      pictures. Not
                      > Tice. Obviously the man who was photographed did not get shot
                      though the
                      > head from rear to front. The contemporary reports say twice in the
                      side of
                      > the head, which is consistent with Anderson riding into Cox's
                      lines, not in
                      > the back, unless it was "friendly fire"!
                      >
                      > The finest historians on the Civil War in Missouri are Albert
                      Castel, who
                      > had published several well researched books on what William
                      Freehling calls
                      > "the world class guerilla war" in the state; Thomas Goodrich,
                      especially his
                      > _Black Flag: Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865 _;
                      and
                      > Michael Fellman, _ Inside War: The Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri
                      During the
                      > American Civil War _. They are in agreement that it was Anderson
                      who was
                      > killed near Albany, Mo., in October, 1864. The body was not
                      mutilated,
                      > except for the ring finger being cut off - which can be seen in the
                      photos.
                      > Anderson was buried in an unmarked grave, after which some of the
                      militia
                      > urinated on it.
                      >
                      > BTW, did you write the biography in Wikipedia?
                      >
                      > Take care,
                      >
                      > Bob
                      >
                      > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                      > 10643 Sperry Street
                      > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                      > 303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...
                      >
                      > And so to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always in
                      the name
                      > of right and honour and peace, until the Gods are tired of blood
                      and create
                      > a race that can understand." - George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and
                      Cleopatra"
                      >
                    • hank9174
                      FWIW, as an example, there are many contradictions, subtle nuances and inaccuracies to the eyewitness accounts and later recollections of the wounding of
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 7, 2007
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                        FWIW, as an example, there are many contradictions, subtle nuances
                        and inaccuracies to the eyewitness accounts and later recollections
                        of the wounding of Stonewall Jackson.


                        HankC

                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                        > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet wounds.
                        > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the
                        gunshots,
                        > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its aftermath.
                        I
                        > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers helping
                        > me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly
                        and
                        > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very limited,
                        > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course
                        unable
                        > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I
                        assure
                        > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the life
                        > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted and
                        we
                        > are far from finished.
                        > Thank you,
                        > ~Jay~
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Huddleston"
                        > <huddleston.r@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Of your sources, only two are of any value: Col. Cox's after
                        action
                        > report
                        > > and the 1924 newspaper account of Col. Hackley. (I assume it is a
                        > typo - the
                        > > town is "Mobley").
                        > >
                        > > Unless there are good footnotes that you did not supply, none of
                        the
                        > > secondary accounts are worth anything. The closest would be
                        > Harrison Trow.
                        > > However, his book, _Charles W. Quantrell; a True History of His
                        > Guerrilla
                        > > Warfare on the Missouri and Kansas Border During the Civil War of
                        > 1861-1865
                        > > _, published in 1923, is a mishmash of rumor and legend. His
                        > recounting of
                        > > Anderson's death reads like a movie and does not conform to
                        either
                        > Cox's
                        > > after action report, or other contemporary accounts. And as near
                        as
                        > I can
                        > > determine, he was not with Anderson in Ray County - indeed I
                        could
                        > not
                        > > determine if he was even with Quantrell during Price's Raid.
                        > >
                        > > You missed some other OR references to Anderson's demise. Samuel
                        P.
                        > Cox was
                        > > major of the First Battalion, Missouri State Militia from April
                        > 1862 until
                        > > his resignation in January 1864. James Craig, commander of
                        > the "Enrolled
                        > > Missouri Militia" (it requires a score card to keep track of all
                        the
                        > > different versions of troops, both Yankee and Rebel in
                        Missouri!),
                        > asked Cox
                        > > to serve without pay or commission, and get Anderson. Cox did.
                        > >
                        > > According to Craig, Cox secured from Anderson's body his pocket
                        > note book,
                        > > containing letters from his wife, two orders to Anderson from
                        > Price, and a
                        > > locket of his wife's hair. The body was identified by several
                        > residents
                        > > while it was lying at the Richmond Court House. (Craig to
                        > Rosecrans's
                        > > adjutant general, 30 October 1864, 86 OR 334). In addition, a
                        > report on the
                        > > fight mentions a Confederate flag with an inscription from a
                        female
                        > admirer,
                        > > "Presented to W. L. (sic) Anderson by his friend, F.M.R. Let it
                        not
                        > be
                        > > contaminated by Fed. Hands." (See Castel, _Bloody Bill Anderson:
                        > The Short
                        > > Savage Life of a Civil War Guerrilla _, 126)
                        > >
                        > > Your contention about the wounds received is a non-story. Hackley
                        is
                        > > recalling something which happened sixty-one years before and one
                        > would
                        > > expect his details to be sketchy. You will note that his mother,
                        a
                        > cousin,
                        > > identified the body as Anderson's. By the way, the photographer
                        was
                        > Dr.
                        > > Robert Kice, a dentist in Richmond who had a sideline taking
                        > pictures. Not
                        > > Tice. Obviously the man who was photographed did not get shot
                        > though the
                        > > head from rear to front. The contemporary reports say twice in
                        the
                        > side of
                        > > the head, which is consistent with Anderson riding into Cox's
                        > lines, not in
                        > > the back, unless it was "friendly fire"!
                        > >
                        > > The finest historians on the Civil War in Missouri are Albert
                        > Castel, who
                        > > had published several well researched books on what William
                        > Freehling calls
                        > > "the world class guerilla war" in the state; Thomas Goodrich,
                        > especially his
                        > > _Black Flag: Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865
                        _;
                        > and
                        > > Michael Fellman, _ Inside War: The Guerrilla Conflict in Missouri
                        > During the
                        > > American Civil War _. They are in agreement that it was Anderson
                        > who was
                        > > killed near Albany, Mo., in October, 1864. The body was not
                        > mutilated,
                        > > except for the ring finger being cut off - which can be seen in
                        the
                        > photos.
                        > > Anderson was buried in an unmarked grave, after which some of the
                        > militia
                        > > urinated on it.
                        > >
                        > > BTW, did you write the biography in Wikipedia?
                        > >
                        > > Take care,
                        > >
                        > > Bob
                        > >
                        > > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                        > > 10643 Sperry Street
                        > > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                        > > 303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@
                        > >
                        > > And so to the end of history, murder shall breed murder, always
                        in
                        > the name
                        > > of right and honour and peace, until the Gods are tired of blood
                        > and create
                        > > a race that can understand." - George Bernard Shaw, "Caesar and
                        > Cleopatra"
                        > >
                        >
                      • Carl Williams
                        Jay, I note you say we quite a bit, and indeed, at least some of what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt Huddleston noticed this]. There
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 8, 2007
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                          Jay, I note you say "we" quite a bit, and indeed, at least some of
                          what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt Huddleston
                          noticed this]. There is a scolding banner at Wikipedia that heads the
                          section "Anderson's death" which seems to be suggesting some writers
                          dial up the quality of the submissions. The words "Please improve it"
                          in that banner would have me concerned if I was involved.

                          The words "One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the Bloody
                          Bill Anderson story has been presented" definitely sound a bit
                          familiar. I suspect, for instance, the ombudsmen-types [whatever they
                          are called] that police at Wikipedia have noted that the facts are
                          presented in the first person for an article that is anonymous. Just
                          some signs that things are not up to snuff. Is this written by thee or
                          thine indeed?

                          I might have to sign up at Wikipedia, something that I have avoided up
                          till now.

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Bill

                          Carl


                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                          > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet wounds.
                          > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the gunshots,
                          > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its aftermath. I
                          > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers helping
                          > me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly and
                          > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very limited,
                          > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course unable
                          > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I assure
                          > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the life
                          > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted and we
                          > are far from finished.
                          > Thank you,
                          > ~Jay~
                        • Jay Longley
                          I did post the facts on Wikipedia about the gunshot theories, with all of my sources, and also corrected some blatant errors in other parts of the article like
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 9, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I did post the facts on Wikipedia about the gunshot theories, with
                            all of my sources, and also corrected some blatant errors in other
                            parts of the article like where the previous "editor" had incorrectly
                            stated that Bloody Bill Anderson married Bush Smith in 1862. Anyone
                            who knows anything about Bill Anderson knows he married Bush Smith
                            during the winter of 1863/1864 although there is a little dispute
                            about the exact day of the marriage. If the "police at Wikipedia",
                            as you laughably refer to them, are concerned with any part of my
                            message then they can easily remove it or edit out the portions which
                            are mostly direct quotes attributed to the specific authors. Since
                            I don't know if the staff was directing their criticism of my
                            information or previous ones who recently filled the page with
                            inaccuracies, I am not "concerned" in the least.
                            By "we", I am referring to the other 75 or so people who are
                            participating in our investigation as well as to the family members
                            of Colonel William C. Anderson. Despite how you and our other
                            critics want to portray our investigation, it is not a "one-man
                            crusade" but rather a concerted effort to learn and share the truth
                            about Bloody Bill Anderson.
                            Thank you for your "concern".
                            ~Jay~




                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > Jay, I note you say "we" quite a bit, and indeed, at least some of
                            > what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt
                            Huddleston
                            > noticed this]. There is a scolding banner at Wikipedia that heads
                            the
                            > section "Anderson's death" which seems to be suggesting some writers
                            > dial up the quality of the submissions. The words "Please improve
                            it"
                            > in that banner would have me concerned if I was involved.
                            >
                            > The words "One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the
                            Bloody
                            > Bill Anderson story has been presented" definitely sound a bit
                            > familiar. I suspect, for instance, the ombudsmen-types [whatever
                            they
                            > are called] that police at Wikipedia have noted that the facts are
                            > presented in the first person for an article that is anonymous. Just
                            > some signs that things are not up to snuff. Is this written by thee
                            or
                            > thine indeed?
                            >
                            > I might have to sign up at Wikipedia, something that I have avoided
                            up
                            > till now.
                            >
                            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Bill
                            >
                            > Carl
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                            > > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet
                            wounds.
                            > > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the
                            gunshots,
                            > > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its
                            aftermath. I
                            > > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers
                            helping
                            > > me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly
                            and
                            > > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very
                            limited,
                            > > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course
                            unable
                            > > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I
                            assure
                            > > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the
                            life
                            > > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted
                            and we
                            > > are far from finished.
                            > > Thank you,
                            > > ~Jay~
                            >
                          • Carl Williams
                            I was making some effort not to make any criticism not personal and apologize if it came off that way. But if I were you, I would get ready for slings and
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 9, 2007
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                              I was making some effort not to make any criticism 'not personal' and
                              apologize if it came off that way. But if I were you, I would get
                              ready for slings and arrows... chinks in your armor, well, they might
                              as well point be pointed out. That doesnt mean you can't be right.



                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > I did post the facts on Wikipedia about the gunshot theories, with
                              > all of my sources, and also corrected some blatant errors in other
                              > parts of the article like where the previous "editor" had incorrectly
                              > stated that Bloody Bill Anderson married Bush Smith in 1862. Anyone
                              > who knows anything about Bill Anderson knows he married Bush Smith
                              > during the winter of 1863/1864 although there is a little dispute
                              > about the exact day of the marriage. If the "police at Wikipedia",
                              > as you laughably refer to them, are concerned with any part of my
                              > message then they can easily remove it or edit out the portions which
                              > are mostly direct quotes attributed to the specific authors. Since
                              > I don't know if the staff was directing their criticism of my
                              > information or previous ones who recently filled the page with
                              > inaccuracies, I am not "concerned" in the least.
                              > By "we", I am referring to the other 75 or so people who are
                              > participating in our investigation as well as to the family members
                              > of Colonel William C. Anderson. Despite how you and our other
                              > critics want to portray our investigation, it is not a "one-man
                              > crusade" but rather a concerted effort to learn and share the truth
                              > about Bloody Bill Anderson.
                              > Thank you for your "concern".
                              > ~Jay~
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Jay, I note you say "we" quite a bit, and indeed, at least some of
                              > > what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt
                              > Huddleston
                              > > noticed this]. There is a scolding banner at Wikipedia that heads
                              > the
                              > > section "Anderson's death" which seems to be suggesting some writers
                              > > dial up the quality of the submissions. The words "Please improve
                              > it"
                              > > in that banner would have me concerned if I was involved.
                              > >
                              > > The words "One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the
                              > Bloody
                              > > Bill Anderson story has been presented" definitely sound a bit
                              > > familiar. I suspect, for instance, the ombudsmen-types [whatever
                              > they
                              > > are called] that police at Wikipedia have noted that the facts are
                              > > presented in the first person for an article that is anonymous. Just
                              > > some signs that things are not up to snuff. Is this written by thee
                              > or
                              > > thine indeed?
                              > >
                              > > I might have to sign up at Wikipedia, something that I have avoided
                              > up
                              > > till now.
                              > >
                              > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Bill
                              > >
                              > > Carl
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen such
                              > > > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet
                              > wounds.
                              > > > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the
                              > gunshots,
                              > > > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its
                              > aftermath. I
                              > > > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers
                              > helping
                              > > > me have gone over all of these other points fully and thoroughly
                              > and
                              > > > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very
                              > limited,
                              > > > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course
                              > unable
                              > > > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I
                              > assure
                              > > > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into the
                              > life
                              > > > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been conducted
                              > and we
                              > > > are far from finished.
                              > > > Thank you,
                              > > > ~Jay~
                              > >
                              >
                            • Jay Longley
                              Hi Carl. Thank you for explaining this to me. Your suggestion to watch out for slings and arrouws is well taken. During this past year, I have indeed been
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 12, 2007
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                                Hi Carl. Thank you for explaining this to me. Your suggestion to
                                watch out for "slings and arrouws" is well taken. During this past
                                year, I have indeed been the receiver of more slander and liable that
                                I ever would have thought possible for simply stating the results of
                                our work to the public. I sincerely apologize to you, Carl, for
                                being defensive in regard to your message. It has become a habit, I
                                am afraid after receiving countless personal attacks, for me to be on
                                pins and needles waiting for the next knife blade to sink in. :)
                                Thanks again,
                                ~Jay~




                                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > I was making some effort not to make any criticism 'not personal'
                                and
                                > apologize if it came off that way. But if I were you, I would get
                                > ready for slings and arrows... chinks in your armor, well, they
                                might
                                > as well point be pointed out. That doesnt mean you can't be right.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley" <jay_longley@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I did post the facts on Wikipedia about the gunshot theories,
                                with
                                > > all of my sources, and also corrected some blatant errors in
                                other
                                > > parts of the article like where the previous "editor" had
                                incorrectly
                                > > stated that Bloody Bill Anderson married Bush Smith in 1862.
                                Anyone
                                > > who knows anything about Bill Anderson knows he married Bush
                                Smith
                                > > during the winter of 1863/1864 although there is a little dispute
                                > > about the exact day of the marriage. If the "police at
                                Wikipedia",
                                > > as you laughably refer to them, are concerned with any part of my
                                > > message then they can easily remove it or edit out the portions
                                which
                                > > are mostly direct quotes attributed to the specific authors.
                                Since
                                > > I don't know if the staff was directing their criticism of my
                                > > information or previous ones who recently filled the page with
                                > > inaccuracies, I am not "concerned" in the least.
                                > > By "we", I am referring to the other 75 or so people who are
                                > > participating in our investigation as well as to the family
                                members
                                > > of Colonel William C. Anderson. Despite how you and our other
                                > > critics want to portray our investigation, it is not a "one-man
                                > > crusade" but rather a concerted effort to learn and share the
                                truth
                                > > about Bloody Bill Anderson.
                                > > Thank you for your "concern".
                                > > ~Jay~
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Jay, I note you say "we" quite a bit, and indeed, at least some
                                of
                                > > > what has been stated here is echoed at Wikipedia [no doubt
                                > > Huddleston
                                > > > noticed this]. There is a scolding banner at Wikipedia that
                                heads
                                > > the
                                > > > section "Anderson's death" which seems to be suggesting some
                                writers
                                > > > dial up the quality of the submissions. The words "Please
                                improve
                                > > it"
                                > > > in that banner would have me concerned if I was involved.
                                > > >
                                > > > The words "One of the most disturbing aspects about the way the
                                > > Bloody
                                > > > Bill Anderson story has been presented" definitely sound a bit
                                > > > familiar. I suspect, for instance, the ombudsmen-types
                                [whatever
                                > > they
                                > > > are called] that police at Wikipedia have noted that the facts
                                are
                                > > > presented in the first person for an article that is anonymous.
                                Just
                                > > > some signs that things are not up to snuff. Is this written by
                                thee
                                > > or
                                > > > thine indeed?
                                > > >
                                > > > I might have to sign up at Wikipedia, something that I have
                                avoided
                                > > up
                                > > > till now.
                                > > >
                                > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Bill
                                > > >
                                > > > Carl
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Longley"
                                <jay_longley@>
                                > > > wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hi Bob. As I stated in my post, I located more than a dozen
                                such
                                > > > > contradictions as to the number and location of the bullet
                                > > wounds.
                                > > > > My original message dealt only with this specific part, the
                                > > gunshots,
                                > > > > of the traditionalist stories about the ambush and its
                                > > aftermath. I
                                > > > > have read most of the books you mention and the researchers
                                > > helping
                                > > > > me have gone over all of these other points fully and
                                thoroughly
                                > > and
                                > > > > are still actively working on them. Since my time is very
                                > > limited,
                                > > > > by my investigation into Bloody Bill Anderson, I am of course
                                > > unable
                                > > > > to present every detail of our findings on other boards but I
                                > > assure
                                > > > > you we have conducted the most thorough investigation into
                                the
                                > > life
                                > > > > and death of Bloody Bill Anderson that has ever been
                                conducted
                                > > and we
                                > > > > are far from finished.
                                > > > > Thank you,
                                > > > > ~Jay~
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Carl Williams
                                just thought I d put this out there for anyone interested, an article about someone debunking a Booth conspiracy theory note that after seven days the article
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 25, 2007
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                                  just thought I'd put this out there for anyone interested, an article
                                  about someone debunking a Booth conspiracy theory

                                  note that after seven days the article is not available without a
                                  subscription [but good at the moment]

                                  http://tinyurl.com/34st2w
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