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RE: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

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  • Tom Mix
    Capt. What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it. Thanks, Tom ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
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      Capt.

      What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it.

      Thanks,

      Tom

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
      Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:58 PM
      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

       

                          Hand up for here here!    

                         I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...

                   Capt. McCracken... ......

      keeno2@... wrote:

      In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:

      considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.

      "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.

      Ken




      AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

       

    • Steve Saultz
      Howdy Tom! Hope all is well! Here ya go! Capt....... http://www.factasy.com/civil_war/index.shtml Tom Mix wrote: Capt. What is her e-mail
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
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                           Howdy Tom!
                              Hope all is well! 
                              Here ya go!
                                    Capt.......
         
                                   http://www.factasy.com/civil_war/index.shtml

        Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:
        Capt.
        What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it.
        Thanks,
        Tom
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
        Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:58 PM
        To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW
         
                            Hand up for here here!    
                           I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...
                     Capt. McCracken... ......

        keeno2@... wrote:
        In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:
        considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
        "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.
        Ken



        AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
         

      • Steve Saultz
        My apologies to Shotgun ... I m sorry Mr. Weeks... I should have asked permission first before posting her site... Didn t mean any disrespect... Respectfully
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
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                           My apologies to Shotgun ...
                           I'm sorry Mr. Weeks... I should have asked permission first before posting her site... Didn't mean any disrespect...
                          Respectfully Your Humble Servant,
                           Capt. McCracken........

          Steve Saultz <tristan4th@...> wrote:
                             Howdy Tom!
                                Hope all is well! 
                                Here ya go!
                                      Capt.......
           
                                     http://www.factasy. com/civil_ war/index. shtml

          Tom Mix <tmix@insightbb. com> wrote:
          Capt.
          What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it.
          Thanks,
          Tom
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
          Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:58 PM
          To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW
           
                              Hand up for here here!    
                             I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...
                       Capt. McCracken... ......

          keeno2@... wrote:
          In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:
          considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
          "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.
          Ken



          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
           


        • Tom Mix
          Thanks, Steve, and I m doing well. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz Sent: Thursday, March
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
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            Thanks, Steve, and I’m doing well.

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
            Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:25 PM
            To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

             

                               Howdy Tom!

                                  Hope all is well! 

                                  Here ya go!

                                        Capt.......

             

                                       http://www.factasy. com/civil_ war/index. shtml

            Tom Mix <tmix@insightbb. com> wrote:

            Capt.

            What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it.

            Thanks,

            Tom

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
            Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:58 PM
            To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

             

                                Hand up for here here!    

                               I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...

                         Capt. McCracken... ......

            keeno2@... wrote:

            In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:

            considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.

            "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.

            Ken

             


            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

             

             

          • Carl Williams
            OK, glad to hear that, I m a bit paranoid about phishing and you know bad grammar is one of the things you look for. I really love the number of times I m
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
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              OK, glad to hear that, I'm a bit paranoid about phishing and you know
              bad grammar is one of the things you look for.

              I really love the number of times I'm addressed as simply "Dear" in
              all those emails from remarkably numerous new and needy millionaires
              with bad grammar ...



              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:

              > "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in
              Sweden. It
              > is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get
              American
              > afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit
              difficult to get a
              > good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give
              her a hand
              > up or ignore it -- she's trying.
              > Ken
            • Tony Gunter
              ... Here s a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston, telling him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place here, is he actually referring
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
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                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                wrote:
                >

                > Umm, dave, seems to me the Vicksburg campaign fires up pretty soon,
                > anniversary-wise? Recently we had some discussion here about the
                > accuracy of Bearss' treatment of Battle of Raymond in particular and
                > McPherson in general.
                >

                Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston, telling
                him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
              • William H Keene
                ... telling ... Tony, Though you directed the question to Dave, I will give you my answer - Edward s Station.
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
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                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                  wrote:
                  > ...
                  > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                  telling
                  > him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                  > actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?


                  Tony,

                  Though you directed the question to Dave, I will give you my answer -
                  Edward's Station.
                • Tony Gunter
                  ... That s what I have always read, and I recall reading in several sources of entrenchments being prepared at Edward s Station. However, Bowen writes
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
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                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@>
                    > wrote:
                    > > ...
                    > > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                    > telling
                    > > him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                    > > actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                    >
                    >
                    > Tony,
                    >
                    > Though you directed the question to Dave, I will give you my answer -
                    > Edward's Station.
                    >

                    That's what I have always read, and I recall reading in several sources
                    of entrenchments being prepared at Edward's Station. However, Bowen
                    writes Pemberton from Bovina on May 10th:

                    "If the enemy advance in force, shall I give battle at Edwards Depot,
                    or withdraw into the intrenchments, which will probably be finished
                    this evening?"

                    Bowen here is referring to the entrenchments at the Big Black River
                    Bridge, and Pemberton tells him to withdraw into the entrenchments.
                    After Bowen has completed the fortifications, he realizes the problem
                    with defending behind the line of the Big Black River and write on May
                    11th:

                    "[our] position can be turned if the enemy pass Edwards and cross at
                    Bridgeport Ferry. My division is not sufficient to give battle at both
                    places, and while we will have 9 or 10 miles to pass from one point to
                    the other, the enemy march 3 or 4 ..."

                    Pemberton seems to accept that he must defend at Edwards. However,
                    there are never any orders to entrench at Edwards, and his May 12th
                    message written in Vicksburg to Johnston and Davis is full of
                    equivocation:

                    "... With my limited force, I will do all I can to meet him. That will
                    be the field of battle if I can carry forward sufficient force, leaving
                    troops enough to secure the saftey of this place. I am also compelled
                    to keep a considerable force on either flank of Vicksburg, out of
                    supporting distance of Edwards, to prevent his approach in those
                    directions."

                    Pemberton had not even begun moving Loring's troops across the Big
                    Black by that point, and would not begin moving Loring to Edwards until
                    after McClernand's van had closed within 4 miles of Edwards Station.
                    Loring would not even arrive in Bovina until 7:30 p.m. May 12th, and
                    Edwards Station until early morning May 13th. By the time Pemberton
                    was in any kind of position to attack, McClernand had already withdraw
                    across Baker's Creek.
                  • Jason van Teylingen
                    I believe it was Big Black but am not certain ... From: Tony Gunter To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
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                      I believe it was Big Black but am not certain

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Tony Gunter <tony_gunter@...>
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:01:09 AM
                      Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

                      --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@. ..>
                      wrote:

                      >

                      > Umm, dave, seems to me the Vicksburg campaign fires up pretty soon,
                      > anniversary- wise? Recently we had some discussion here about the
                      > accuracy of Bearss' treatment of Battle of Raymond in particular and
                      > McPherson in general.
                      >

                      Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston, telling
                      him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                      actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?


                    • William H Keene
                      So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that to Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12 and was in reference to
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 25, 2007
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                        So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that to
                        Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12 and
                        was in reference to Edward's.

                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                        wrote:
                        > ...
                        > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                        > telling
                        > him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                        > actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                      • Tony Gunter
                        ... to ... and ... Yes, I believe you re correct. I just find Pemberton s thought processes interesting. IMO, the place to dispute Grant is Fourteen Mile
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 25, 2007
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                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that
                          to
                          > Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12
                          and
                          > was in reference to Edward's.

                          Yes, I believe you're correct. I just find Pemberton's thought
                          processes interesting. IMO, the place to dispute Grant is Fourteen
                          Mile Creek along a broad front. Until the 11th, it appears that
                          Pemberton's plan is to move into the fortifications at the Big Black
                          River Bridge. Then Bowen points out the problem with this plan:
                          Pemberton is giving Grant the advantage of interior lines.

                          On the 12th, Pemberton writes Johnston and Davis that he's going to
                          meet Grant in the field of battle at Edwards Station, but at the time
                          he's only got a couple of brigades there, and he's yet to issue
                          orders to Loring to move to Bovina. His message is full of
                          equivocation, like he's not quite convinced that he's going to offer
                          battle if pressed, he hasn't prepared a defensive position at
                          Edwards, he's only got three divisions at hand, Grant has five
                          divisions in near proximity, and if Pemberton is bested at Edwards he
                          may have to retreat *away* from his base at the Big Black River.
                        • William H Keene
                          ... IMO, by the Grant was in Grand Gulf he had achieved a psychological advantage over Pemberton. Pemberton seemed rattled, uncertain and a little panicked.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 25, 2007
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                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                            wrote:
                            > ... I just find Pemberton's thought
                            > processes interesting.

                            IMO, by the Grant was in Grand Gulf he had achieved a psychological
                            advantage over Pemberton. Pemberton seemed rattled, uncertain and a
                            little panicked.
                          • Dave Smith
                            ... snips ... My interpretation is Big Black River Bridge. I don t know of anything written by JCP that suggests Edwards as a locus for battle. The Battle of
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
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                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              snips
                              >
                              > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                              > telling him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is
                              > he actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                              >
                              My interpretation is Big Black River Bridge. I don't know of anything
                              written by JCP that suggests Edwards as a locus for battle.

                              The Battle of Champion Hill wasn't supposed to be fought; Pemberton got
                              caught by Grant trying to turn his army around to cease moving on
                              Dillon's Plantation (a really dumb idea) for moving to Clinton via
                              Brownsville (an even dumber idea).

                              That said, Pemberton was simply so fed up with Johnston's inability to
                              lead that I think he just decided he'd move his men to Johnston, let
                              him take command, and decide what to do.

                              Dave
                            • Dave Smith
                              The problem, I think, is trying to understand exactly what Pemberton meant to do in terms of time and space. Prior to the engagement at Champion Hill,
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
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                                The problem, I think, is trying to understand exactly what Pemberton
                                meant to do in terms of time and space.

                                Prior to the engagement at Champion Hill, Pemberton had spent his
                                time following Grant's movements by sliding up the Big Black River
                                towards the Bridge, but without any intent to cross and deal with
                                Grant explicitly.

                                Part of Pemberton's issue was his inability to accurately scout
                                Grant. Those that have visited Vicksburg know that the terrain south
                                and east of the Big Black River effectively screened Grant's forces,
                                at least from a line of sight perspective. For Pemberton to have
                                sallied forth and to have groped for Grant would have been silly, IMO.

                                Once Johnston gets on the scene, everything goes haywire. First of
                                all, neither Pemberton or Johnston, at the time, detailed in their
                                period correspondence what exactly they believed. Their post-war
                                writings were written with hindsight, and to second guess the other.

                                Edwards was, I think, a good "forward station" that provided
                                Pemberton with the ability to make decent decisions - fight there,
                                maneuver, or fall back to the Bridge.

                                If he looked to fight at Edwards, it wasn't that particular day.

                                Dave

                                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that
                                to
                                > Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12
                                and
                                > was in reference to Edward's.
                                >
                                > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@>
                                > wrote:
                                > > ...
                                > > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                                > > telling
                                > > him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                                > > actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                                >
                              • Dave Smith
                                I think that s great, too, but you simply don t take others work, put it on your site, and call it your own. Dave ... to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
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                                  I think that's great, too, but you simply don't take others' work,
                                  put it on your site, and call it your own.

                                  Dave

                                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Steve Saultz <tristan4th@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hand up for here here!
                                  > I ran across her in another group I belong
                                  to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find
                                  interest in history...
                                  > Capt. McCracken.........
                                  >
                                  > keeno2@... wrote:
                                  > In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central
                                  Standard Time, carlw4514@... writes:
                                  > considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join'
                                  before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a
                                  form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
                                  > "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in
                                  Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite
                                  anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create
                                  discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in
                                  this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it --
                                  she's trying.
                                  > Ken
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
                                  free from AOL at AOL.com.
                                  >
                                • Dave Smith
                                  I agree about the equivocation, but the entire period of May 1 through May 18 was one of guessing on the part of the Confederate high command. Grant knew what
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
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                                    I agree about the equivocation, but the entire period of May 1
                                    through May 18 was one of guessing on the part of the Confederate
                                    high command.

                                    Grant knew what he was doing, and Pemberton could only guess.

                                    With Johnston's arrival, things got even more muddied, as well as
                                    plain simply confused. The delays in communications, coupled with
                                    neither man having a clear understanding of what Grant was up to, set
                                    the stage for mass confusion.

                                    As an example, Johnston ordered Pemberton to Clinton so their
                                    combined forces could fall on Sherman. The problem was Sherman
                                    wasn't at Clinton, and worse, Johnston never gave another thought to
                                    moving forward to Clinton, and instead, pulled back and away.

                                    Pemberton was trying to start his army towards Clinton when the
                                    Battle of Champion Hill broke out. It remains interesting
                                    speculation as to what would have happened had, for argument's sake,
                                    he had started six hours earlier and had cleared Edwards Station. It
                                    sets up a totally different scenario.

                                    DAve

                                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that
                                    > to
                                    > > Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12
                                    > and
                                    > > was in reference to Edward's.
                                    >
                                    > Yes, I believe you're correct. I just find Pemberton's thought
                                    > processes interesting. IMO, the place to dispute Grant is Fourteen
                                    > Mile Creek along a broad front. Until the 11th, it appears that
                                    > Pemberton's plan is to move into the fortifications at the Big
                                    Black
                                    > River Bridge. Then Bowen points out the problem with this plan:
                                    > Pemberton is giving Grant the advantage of interior lines.
                                    >
                                    > On the 12th, Pemberton writes Johnston and Davis that he's going to
                                    > meet Grant in the field of battle at Edwards Station, but at the
                                    time
                                    > he's only got a couple of brigades there, and he's yet to issue
                                    > orders to Loring to move to Bovina. His message is full of
                                    > equivocation, like he's not quite convinced that he's going to
                                    offer
                                    > battle if pressed, he hasn't prepared a defensive position at
                                    > Edwards, he's only got three divisions at hand, Grant has five
                                    > divisions in near proximity, and if Pemberton is bested at Edwards
                                    he
                                    > may have to retreat *away* from his base at the Big Black River.
                                    >
                                  • Steve Saultz
                                    Hi Dave.. No.. no... I totally agree with you there. My apologies if that is what I implied. All work & writings should have permission first, as well as
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
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                                                     Hi Dave..
                                                      No.. no... I totally agree with you there. My apologies if that is what I implied. All work & writings should have "permission" first, as well as always cited to the author & their sources. Been dealing with this somewhat lately in other history group sites. Why I will say again, "permission" is the key.
                                              All Respects,
                                                   Capt. McCracken

                                      Dave Smith <dmsmith001@...> wrote:
                                      I think that's great, too, but you simply don't take others' work,
                                      put it on your site, and call it your own.

                                      Dave

                                      --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, Steve Saultz <tristan4th@ ...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hand up for here here!
                                      > I ran across her in another group I belong
                                      to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find
                                      interest in history...
                                      > Capt. McCracken... ......
                                      >
                                      > keeno2@... wrote:
                                      > In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central
                                      Standard Time, carlw4514@.. . writes:
                                      > considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join'
                                      before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a
                                      form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
                                      > "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in
                                      Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite
                                      anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create
                                      discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in
                                      this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it --
                                      she's trying.
                                      > Ken
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                      > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
                                      free from AOL at AOL.com.
                                      >


                                    • William H Keene
                                      ... I disagree. Pemberton had crossed his moveable force eats of the Big Black to Edwards during the 13th-14th in order to challenge Grant.
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
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                                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith" <dmsmith001@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > ...
                                        > Prior to the engagement at Champion Hill, Pemberton had spent his
                                        > time following Grant's movements by sliding up the Big Black River
                                        > towards the Bridge, but without any intent to cross and deal with
                                        > Grant explicitly.

                                        I disagree. Pemberton had crossed his moveable force eats of the Big
                                        Black to Edwards during the 13th-14th in order to challenge Grant.
                                      • Dave Smith
                                        ... And was so confused that he had to hold a council of war to try to bring some semblance of order out of the confusion. And even with the council, he and
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Mar 27, 2007
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                                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith" <dmsmith001@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > ...
                                          > > Prior to the engagement at Champion Hill, Pemberton had spent his
                                          > > time following Grant's movements by sliding up the Big Black River
                                          > > towards the Bridge, but without any intent to cross and deal with
                                          > > Grant explicitly.
                                          >
                                          > I disagree. Pemberton had crossed his moveable force eats of the Big
                                          > Black to Edwards during the 13th-14th in order to challenge Grant.
                                          >
                                          And was so confused that he had to hold a council of war to try to
                                          bring some semblance of order out of the confusion. And even with the
                                          council, he and his staff were divided on what to do.

                                          And at the end, he decided to attack a non-existent supply line at
                                          Dillons.

                                          What I think he was trying to do was to move forward to Edwards, which
                                          gave him maximimum flexibility for maneuver. No where, to the best of
                                          my knowledge, did he indicate he was looking for a fight at Edwards.

                                          Dave
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