Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

ACW

Expand Messages
  • t_lind
    Hello I wonder how many are disappointed on all website that is on the web, i mean when i seek for American civil war how many site is complete with the
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello I wonder how many are disappointed on all website that is on the
      web, i mean when i seek for American civil war how many site is
      complete with the information you need.


      Visit my site and tell me what i have miss.
      You can even discuss it on my discussion forum, and if become a member
      you will receive news letterĀ“s when the site is update.

      I invite you to my Discussion Forum

      http://www.factasy.com/civil_war/index.shtml
      http://www.factasy.com/forum/index.php/

      I hope you will help me to build a big site and discussion forum

      Regards Ann
    • Dave Smith
      ... A quick review of some of the information on this site shows it was copied verbatim (plagiarized) from existing sites, including the NPS. Very sad. Dave
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "t_lind" <tagate@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello I wonder how many are disappointed on all website that is on the
        > web, i mean when i seek for American civil war how many site is
        > complete with the information you need.
        >

        A quick review of some of the information on this site shows it was
        copied verbatim (plagiarized) from existing sites, including the NPS.

        Very sad.

        Dave
      • Carl Williams
        considering that we have seen this particular offer to join before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before,
          and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of
          phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.

          Umm, dave, seems to me the Vicksburg campaign fires up pretty soon,
          anniversary-wise? Recently we had some discussion here about the
          accuracy of Bearss' treatment of Battle of Raymond in particular and
          McPherson in general.

          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith" <dmsmith001@...> wrote:

          >
          > A quick review of some of the information on this site shows it was
          > copied verbatim (plagiarized) from existing sites, including the NPS.
          >
          > Very sad.
          >
          > Dave
          >
        • keeno2@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo.com writes: considering that we have seen this particular offer to join
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@... writes:
            considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
            "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.
            Ken




            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
          • Steve Saultz
            Hand up for here here! I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history... Capt.
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
                                  Hand up for here here!    
                                 I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...
                           Capt. McCracken.........

              keeno2@... wrote:
              In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:
              considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
              "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.
              Ken




              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

            • Tom Mix
              Capt. What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it. Thanks, Tom ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
              • 0 Attachment

                Capt.

                What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it.

                Thanks,

                Tom

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
                Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:58 PM
                To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

                 

                                    Hand up for here here!    

                                   I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...

                             Capt. McCracken... ......

                keeno2@... wrote:

                In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:

                considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.

                "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.

                Ken




                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

                 

              • Steve Saultz
                Howdy Tom! Hope all is well! Here ya go! Capt....... http://www.factasy.com/civil_war/index.shtml Tom Mix wrote: Capt. What is her e-mail
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                                     Howdy Tom!
                                        Hope all is well! 
                                        Here ya go!
                                              Capt.......
                   
                                             http://www.factasy.com/civil_war/index.shtml

                  Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:
                  Capt.
                  What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it.
                  Thanks,
                  Tom
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
                  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:58 PM
                  To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW
                   
                                      Hand up for here here!    
                                     I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...
                               Capt. McCracken... ......

                  keeno2@... wrote:
                  In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:
                  considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
                  "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.
                  Ken



                  AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
                   

                • Steve Saultz
                  My apologies to Shotgun ... I m sorry Mr. Weeks... I should have asked permission first before posting her site... Didn t mean any disrespect... Respectfully
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                                     My apologies to Shotgun ...
                                     I'm sorry Mr. Weeks... I should have asked permission first before posting her site... Didn't mean any disrespect...
                                    Respectfully Your Humble Servant,
                                     Capt. McCracken........

                    Steve Saultz <tristan4th@...> wrote:
                                       Howdy Tom!
                                          Hope all is well! 
                                          Here ya go!
                                                Capt.......
                     
                                               http://www.factasy. com/civil_ war/index. shtml

                    Tom Mix <tmix@insightbb. com> wrote:
                    Capt.
                    What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it.
                    Thanks,
                    Tom
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
                    Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:58 PM
                    To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW
                     
                                        Hand up for here here!    
                                       I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...
                                 Capt. McCracken... ......

                    keeno2@... wrote:
                    In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:
                    considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
                    "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.
                    Ken



                    AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
                     


                  • Tom Mix
                    Thanks, Steve, and I m doing well. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz Sent: Thursday, March
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 22, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Thanks, Steve, and I’m doing well.

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
                      Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:25 PM
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

                       

                                         Howdy Tom!

                                            Hope all is well! 

                                            Here ya go!

                                                  Capt.......

                       

                                                 http://www.factasy. com/civil_ war/index. shtml

                      Tom Mix <tmix@insightbb. com> wrote:

                      Capt.

                      What is her e-mail address to join? I managed to misplace it.

                      Thanks,

                      Tom

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwes t@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
                      Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:58 PM
                      To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

                       

                                          Hand up for here here!    

                                         I ran across her in another group I belong to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find interest in history...

                                   Capt. McCracken... ......

                      keeno2@... wrote:

                      In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central Standard Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:

                      considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join' before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.

                      "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it -- she's trying.

                      Ken

                       


                      AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

                       

                       

                    • Carl Williams
                      OK, glad to hear that, I m a bit paranoid about phishing and you know bad grammar is one of the things you look for. I really love the number of times I m
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        OK, glad to hear that, I'm a bit paranoid about phishing and you know
                        bad grammar is one of the things you look for.

                        I really love the number of times I'm addressed as simply "Dear" in
                        all those emails from remarkably numerous new and needy millionaires
                        with bad grammar ...



                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:

                        > "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in
                        Sweden. It
                        > is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite anxious to get
                        American
                        > afficianados on board to help create discussion. It's a bit
                        difficult to get a
                        > good ACW website going in this country, let alone in Sweden. Give
                        her a hand
                        > up or ignore it -- she's trying.
                        > Ken
                      • Tony Gunter
                        ... Here s a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston, telling him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place here, is he actually referring
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                          wrote:
                          >

                          > Umm, dave, seems to me the Vicksburg campaign fires up pretty soon,
                          > anniversary-wise? Recently we had some discussion here about the
                          > accuracy of Bearss' treatment of Battle of Raymond in particular and
                          > McPherson in general.
                          >

                          Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston, telling
                          him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                          actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                        • William H Keene
                          ... telling ... Tony, Though you directed the question to Dave, I will give you my answer - Edward s Station.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                            wrote:
                            > ...
                            > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                            telling
                            > him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                            > actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?


                            Tony,

                            Though you directed the question to Dave, I will give you my answer -
                            Edward's Station.
                          • Tony Gunter
                            ... That s what I have always read, and I recall reading in several sources of entrenchments being prepared at Edward s Station. However, Bowen writes
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@>
                              > wrote:
                              > > ...
                              > > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                              > telling
                              > > him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                              > > actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                              >
                              >
                              > Tony,
                              >
                              > Though you directed the question to Dave, I will give you my answer -
                              > Edward's Station.
                              >

                              That's what I have always read, and I recall reading in several sources
                              of entrenchments being prepared at Edward's Station. However, Bowen
                              writes Pemberton from Bovina on May 10th:

                              "If the enemy advance in force, shall I give battle at Edwards Depot,
                              or withdraw into the intrenchments, which will probably be finished
                              this evening?"

                              Bowen here is referring to the entrenchments at the Big Black River
                              Bridge, and Pemberton tells him to withdraw into the entrenchments.
                              After Bowen has completed the fortifications, he realizes the problem
                              with defending behind the line of the Big Black River and write on May
                              11th:

                              "[our] position can be turned if the enemy pass Edwards and cross at
                              Bridgeport Ferry. My division is not sufficient to give battle at both
                              places, and while we will have 9 or 10 miles to pass from one point to
                              the other, the enemy march 3 or 4 ..."

                              Pemberton seems to accept that he must defend at Edwards. However,
                              there are never any orders to entrench at Edwards, and his May 12th
                              message written in Vicksburg to Johnston and Davis is full of
                              equivocation:

                              "... With my limited force, I will do all I can to meet him. That will
                              be the field of battle if I can carry forward sufficient force, leaving
                              troops enough to secure the saftey of this place. I am also compelled
                              to keep a considerable force on either flank of Vicksburg, out of
                              supporting distance of Edwards, to prevent his approach in those
                              directions."

                              Pemberton had not even begun moving Loring's troops across the Big
                              Black by that point, and would not begin moving Loring to Edwards until
                              after McClernand's van had closed within 4 miles of Edwards Station.
                              Loring would not even arrive in Bovina until 7:30 p.m. May 12th, and
                              Edwards Station until early morning May 13th. By the time Pemberton
                              was in any kind of position to attack, McClernand had already withdraw
                              across Baker's Creek.
                            • Jason van Teylingen
                              I believe it was Big Black but am not certain ... From: Tony Gunter To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 23, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I believe it was Big Black but am not certain

                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: Tony Gunter <tony_gunter@...>
                                To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:01:09 AM
                                Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: ACW

                                --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@. ..>
                                wrote:

                                >

                                > Umm, dave, seems to me the Vicksburg campaign fires up pretty soon,
                                > anniversary- wise? Recently we had some discussion here about the
                                > accuracy of Bearss' treatment of Battle of Raymond in particular and
                                > McPherson in general.
                                >

                                Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston, telling
                                him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                                actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?


                              • William H Keene
                                So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that to Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12 and was in reference to
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 25, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that to
                                  Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12 and
                                  was in reference to Edward's.

                                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > ...
                                  > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                                  > telling
                                  > him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                                  > actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                                • Tony Gunter
                                  ... to ... and ... Yes, I believe you re correct. I just find Pemberton s thought processes interesting. IMO, the place to dispute Grant is Fourteen Mile
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 25, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that
                                    to
                                    > Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12
                                    and
                                    > was in reference to Edward's.

                                    Yes, I believe you're correct. I just find Pemberton's thought
                                    processes interesting. IMO, the place to dispute Grant is Fourteen
                                    Mile Creek along a broad front. Until the 11th, it appears that
                                    Pemberton's plan is to move into the fortifications at the Big Black
                                    River Bridge. Then Bowen points out the problem with this plan:
                                    Pemberton is giving Grant the advantage of interior lines.

                                    On the 12th, Pemberton writes Johnston and Davis that he's going to
                                    meet Grant in the field of battle at Edwards Station, but at the time
                                    he's only got a couple of brigades there, and he's yet to issue
                                    orders to Loring to move to Bovina. His message is full of
                                    equivocation, like he's not quite convinced that he's going to offer
                                    battle if pressed, he hasn't prepared a defensive position at
                                    Edwards, he's only got three divisions at hand, Grant has five
                                    divisions in near proximity, and if Pemberton is bested at Edwards he
                                    may have to retreat *away* from his base at the Big Black River.
                                  • William H Keene
                                    ... IMO, by the Grant was in Grand Gulf he had achieved a psychological advantage over Pemberton. Pemberton seemed rattled, uncertain and a little panicked.
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 25, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > ... I just find Pemberton's thought
                                      > processes interesting.

                                      IMO, by the Grant was in Grand Gulf he had achieved a psychological
                                      advantage over Pemberton. Pemberton seemed rattled, uncertain and a
                                      little panicked.
                                    • Dave Smith
                                      ... snips ... My interpretation is Big Black River Bridge. I don t know of anything written by JCP that suggests Edwards as a locus for battle. The Battle of
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        snips
                                        >
                                        > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                                        > telling him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is
                                        > he actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                                        >
                                        My interpretation is Big Black River Bridge. I don't know of anything
                                        written by JCP that suggests Edwards as a locus for battle.

                                        The Battle of Champion Hill wasn't supposed to be fought; Pemberton got
                                        caught by Grant trying to turn his army around to cease moving on
                                        Dillon's Plantation (a really dumb idea) for moving to Clinton via
                                        Brownsville (an even dumber idea).

                                        That said, Pemberton was simply so fed up with Johnston's inability to
                                        lead that I think he just decided he'd move his men to Johnston, let
                                        him take command, and decide what to do.

                                        Dave
                                      • Dave Smith
                                        The problem, I think, is trying to understand exactly what Pemberton meant to do in terms of time and space. Prior to the engagement at Champion Hill,
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          The problem, I think, is trying to understand exactly what Pemberton
                                          meant to do in terms of time and space.

                                          Prior to the engagement at Champion Hill, Pemberton had spent his
                                          time following Grant's movements by sliding up the Big Black River
                                          towards the Bridge, but without any intent to cross and deal with
                                          Grant explicitly.

                                          Part of Pemberton's issue was his inability to accurately scout
                                          Grant. Those that have visited Vicksburg know that the terrain south
                                          and east of the Big Black River effectively screened Grant's forces,
                                          at least from a line of sight perspective. For Pemberton to have
                                          sallied forth and to have groped for Grant would have been silly, IMO.

                                          Once Johnston gets on the scene, everything goes haywire. First of
                                          all, neither Pemberton or Johnston, at the time, detailed in their
                                          period correspondence what exactly they believed. Their post-war
                                          writings were written with hindsight, and to second guess the other.

                                          Edwards was, I think, a good "forward station" that provided
                                          Pemberton with the ability to make decent decisions - fight there,
                                          maneuver, or fall back to the Bridge.

                                          If he looked to fight at Edwards, it wasn't that particular day.

                                          Dave

                                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@...>
                                          wrote:
                                          >
                                          > So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that
                                          to
                                          > Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12
                                          and
                                          > was in reference to Edward's.
                                          >
                                          > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > ...
                                          > > Here's a question for Dave ... when Pemberton writes Johnston,
                                          > > telling
                                          > > him that the battle for Vicksburg will take place "here," is he
                                          > > actually referring to Edwards Station, or Big Black River Bridge?
                                          >
                                        • Dave Smith
                                          I think that s great, too, but you simply don t take others work, put it on your site, and call it your own. Dave ... to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I think that's great, too, but you simply don't take others' work,
                                            put it on your site, and call it your own.

                                            Dave

                                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Steve Saultz <tristan4th@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hand up for here here!
                                            > I ran across her in another group I belong
                                            to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find
                                            interest in history...
                                            > Capt. McCracken.........
                                            >
                                            > keeno2@... wrote:
                                            > In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central
                                            Standard Time, carlw4514@... writes:
                                            > considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join'
                                            before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a
                                            form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
                                            > "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in
                                            Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite
                                            anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create
                                            discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in
                                            this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it --
                                            she's trying.
                                            > Ken
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ---------------------------------
                                            > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
                                            free from AOL at AOL.com.
                                            >
                                          • Dave Smith
                                            I agree about the equivocation, but the entire period of May 1 through May 18 was one of guessing on the part of the Confederate high command. Grant knew what
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I agree about the equivocation, but the entire period of May 1
                                              through May 18 was one of guessing on the part of the Confederate
                                              high command.

                                              Grant knew what he was doing, and Pemberton could only guess.

                                              With Johnston's arrival, things got even more muddied, as well as
                                              plain simply confused. The delays in communications, coupled with
                                              neither man having a clear understanding of what Grant was up to, set
                                              the stage for mass confusion.

                                              As an example, Johnston ordered Pemberton to Clinton so their
                                              combined forces could fall on Sherman. The problem was Sherman
                                              wasn't at Clinton, and worse, Johnston never gave another thought to
                                              moving forward to Clinton, and instead, pulled back and away.

                                              Pemberton was trying to start his army towards Clinton when the
                                              Battle of Champion Hill broke out. It remains interesting
                                              speculation as to what would have happened had, for argument's sake,
                                              he had started six hours earlier and had cleared Edwards Station. It
                                              sets up a totally different scenario.

                                              DAve

                                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gunter" <tony_gunter@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > So it seems to me that the issue is what day Pemberton wrote that
                                              > to
                                              > > Johnston. What I think you a referring to was written on May 12
                                              > and
                                              > > was in reference to Edward's.
                                              >
                                              > Yes, I believe you're correct. I just find Pemberton's thought
                                              > processes interesting. IMO, the place to dispute Grant is Fourteen
                                              > Mile Creek along a broad front. Until the 11th, it appears that
                                              > Pemberton's plan is to move into the fortifications at the Big
                                              Black
                                              > River Bridge. Then Bowen points out the problem with this plan:
                                              > Pemberton is giving Grant the advantage of interior lines.
                                              >
                                              > On the 12th, Pemberton writes Johnston and Davis that he's going to
                                              > meet Grant in the field of battle at Edwards Station, but at the
                                              time
                                              > he's only got a couple of brigades there, and he's yet to issue
                                              > orders to Loring to move to Bovina. His message is full of
                                              > equivocation, like he's not quite convinced that he's going to
                                              offer
                                              > battle if pressed, he hasn't prepared a defensive position at
                                              > Edwards, he's only got three divisions at hand, Grant has five
                                              > divisions in near proximity, and if Pemberton is bested at Edwards
                                              he
                                              > may have to retreat *away* from his base at the Big Black River.
                                              >
                                            • Steve Saultz
                                              Hi Dave.. No.. no... I totally agree with you there. My apologies if that is what I implied. All work & writings should have permission first, as well as
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                               Hi Dave..
                                                                No.. no... I totally agree with you there. My apologies if that is what I implied. All work & writings should have "permission" first, as well as always cited to the author & their sources. Been dealing with this somewhat lately in other history group sites. Why I will say again, "permission" is the key.
                                                        All Respects,
                                                             Capt. McCracken

                                                Dave Smith <dmsmith001@...> wrote:
                                                I think that's great, too, but you simply don't take others' work,
                                                put it on your site, and call it your own.

                                                Dave

                                                --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, Steve Saultz <tristan4th@ ...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hand up for here here!
                                                > I ran across her in another group I belong
                                                to.... Pretty neat IMHO, that folks as far away as Sweden find
                                                interest in history...
                                                > Capt. McCracken... ......
                                                >
                                                > keeno2@... wrote:
                                                > In a message dated 3/22/2007 10:13:50 AM Central
                                                Standard Time, carlw4514@.. . writes:
                                                > considering that we have seen this particular 'offer to join'
                                                before, and the general pattern of grammar, etc, I suspect this is a
                                                form of phishing, although I'm not sure how it would work.
                                                > "factasy.com" is a web site the young lady is putting together in
                                                Sweden. It is designed for the Swedish market, but she is quite
                                                anxious to get American afficianados on board to help create
                                                discussion. It's a bit difficult to get a good ACW website going in
                                                this country, let alone in Sweden. Give her a hand up or ignore it --
                                                she's trying.
                                                > Ken
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                                                > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
                                                free from AOL at AOL.com.
                                                >


                                              • William H Keene
                                                ... I disagree. Pemberton had crossed his moveable force eats of the Big Black to Edwards during the 13th-14th in order to challenge Grant.
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Mar 26, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith" <dmsmith001@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > ...
                                                  > Prior to the engagement at Champion Hill, Pemberton had spent his
                                                  > time following Grant's movements by sliding up the Big Black River
                                                  > towards the Bridge, but without any intent to cross and deal with
                                                  > Grant explicitly.

                                                  I disagree. Pemberton had crossed his moveable force eats of the Big
                                                  Black to Edwards during the 13th-14th in order to challenge Grant.
                                                • Dave Smith
                                                  ... And was so confused that he had to hold a council of war to try to bring some semblance of order out of the confusion. And even with the council, he and
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Mar 27, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "William H Keene" <wh_keene@...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith" <dmsmith001@>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    > > ...
                                                    > > Prior to the engagement at Champion Hill, Pemberton had spent his
                                                    > > time following Grant's movements by sliding up the Big Black River
                                                    > > towards the Bridge, but without any intent to cross and deal with
                                                    > > Grant explicitly.
                                                    >
                                                    > I disagree. Pemberton had crossed his moveable force eats of the Big
                                                    > Black to Edwards during the 13th-14th in order to challenge Grant.
                                                    >
                                                    And was so confused that he had to hold a council of war to try to
                                                    bring some semblance of order out of the confusion. And even with the
                                                    council, he and his staff were divided on what to do.

                                                    And at the end, he decided to attack a non-existent supply line at
                                                    Dillons.

                                                    What I think he was trying to do was to move forward to Edwards, which
                                                    gave him maximimum flexibility for maneuver. No where, to the best of
                                                    my knowledge, did he indicate he was looking for a fight at Edwards.

                                                    Dave
                                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.