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Triumph and Defeat Volume 2

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  • Tony Gunter
    I just noticed that Terry Winschel has a new book out from Fall 06. I just ordered a copy, can anyone tell me what to expect? I thought the previous book was
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 14, 2007
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      I just noticed that Terry Winschel has a new book out from Fall '06. I
      just ordered a copy, can anyone tell me what to expect?

      I thought the previous book was great, especially as a reference
      material for Grierson's Raid, but I thought he could have spent very
      little effort to turn it into a brief overview of the entire campaign
      instead of a disjointed collection of essays. In particular, the first
      book simply skips right over Raymond, a battle which I view as a
      turning point in the campaign even more than Champion Hill.
    • Harry Smeltzer
      I imagine he skipped Raymond because he would have got it wrong ;-) ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 14, 2007
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        I imagine he skipped Raymond because he would have got it wrong ;-)

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Gunter
        Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:48 PM
        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [civilwarwest] Triumph and Defeat Volume 2

         


        I just noticed that Terry Winschel has a new book out from Fall '06. I
        just ordered a copy, can anyone tell me what to expect?

        I thought the previous book was great, especially as a reference
        material for Grierson's Raid, but I thought he could have spent very
        little effort to turn it into a brief overview of the entire campaign
        instead of a disjointed collection of essays. In particular, the first
        book simply skips right over Raymond, a battle which I view as a
        turning point in the campaign even more than Champion Hill.

      • Tony Gunter
        ... You may be right! I think Raymond is the type of engagement that takes some net geek becoming obsessed with it over a period of 2-3 years in order for it
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 14, 2007
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          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:
          >
          > I imagine he skipped Raymond because he would have got it wrong ;-)

          You may be right! I think Raymond is the type of engagement that takes
          some net geek becoming obsessed with it over a period of 2-3 years in
          order for it to be fully understood.

          In the first volume, he also skips right over another of my favorite
          obsessions: Chickasaw Bayou, one that *I* was mind-bogglingly wrong
          about up until about a year ago when I found a map that showed where
          the pontoon was really being placed (the lake actually extended a mile
          beyond where it ends today, filled in by 150 years worth of sediment).
          Right up the gut. Boy, that Sherman was a real master of strategy,
          wasn't he?
        • basecat1@aol.com
          In a message dated 1/14/2007 7:52:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, tony_gunter@yahoo.com writes: I just noticed that Terry Winschel has a new book out from Fall
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 14, 2007
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            In a message dated 1/14/2007 7:52:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, tony_gunter@... writes:
            I just noticed that Terry Winschel has a new book out from Fall '06. I
            just ordered a copy, can anyone tell me what to expect?

            I thought the previous book was great, especially as a reference
            material for Grierson's Raid, but I thought he could have spent very
            little effort to turn it into a brief overview of the entire campaign
            instead of a disjointed collection of essays. In particular, the first
            book simply skips right over Raymond, a battle which I view as a
            turning point in the campaign even more than Champion Hill.
             
            Tony,
             
            For more information on the book, and its list of contents, check out this link.
             
             
            Regards from the Garden State,
             
            Steve Basic
          • William H Keene
            ... I imagine he skipped it becuase it involved McPherson and not McClernand, thus it didnt fit with his version of events. ...
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 14, 2007
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              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I imagine he skipped Raymond because he would have got it wrong ;-)

              I imagine he skipped it becuase it involved McPherson and not
              McClernand, thus it didnt fit with his version of events.


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Tony Gunter
              > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:48 PM
              > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [civilwarwest] Triumph and Defeat Volume 2
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I just noticed that Terry Winschel has a new book out from
              Fall '06. I
              > just ordered a copy, can anyone tell me what to expect?
              >
              > I thought the previous book was great, especially as a reference
              > material for Grierson's Raid, but I thought he could have spent
              very
              > little effort to turn it into a brief overview of the entire
              campaign
              > instead of a disjointed collection of essays. In particular, the
              first
              > book simply skips right over Raymond, a battle which I view as a
              > turning point in the campaign even more than Champion Hill.
              >
            • James W. Durney
              Tony, I read your Amazon review on Vol I. While not one of the great books on Vicksburg, I didn t think it was a 3 star book, as it had some very good points.
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 15, 2007
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                Tony,

                I read your Amazon review on Vol I. While not one of the great books
                on Vicksburg, I didn't think it was a 3 star book, as it had some very
                good points. Why would you want to spend $20 on the second book when
                you didn't like the first?

                James
              • Tony Gunter
                ... very ... Maybe my rating system is off ... out of 5 stars, three stars is above average, right? I suppose if I had to nail down a system of rating, I would
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 15, 2007
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                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Tony,
                  >
                  > I read your Amazon review on Vol I. While not one of the great books
                  > on Vicksburg, I didn't think it was a 3 star book, as it had some
                  very
                  > good points. Why would you want to spend $20 on the second book when
                  > you didn't like the first?
                  >
                  > James

                  Maybe my rating system is off ... out of 5 stars, three stars is above
                  average, right?

                  I suppose if I had to nail down a system of rating, I would consider a
                  five star book on history one that I read multiple times and put on the
                  shelf for frequent reference. A four star book would be one that I
                  read once but refer to occasionally. A three star book would present
                  some fresh content that I refer to once in a blue moon. Two stars, I
                  would read it and feel like the material had real problems. One star,
                  and I would want not only my money back, but some type of compensation
                  for the time wasted reading it.
                • Tony Gunter
                  ... out this ... Thanks. Just received the book, and this one *does* have a chapter on Raymond (Blitzkrieg). But sadly it looks similar to the Bearss
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 18, 2007
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                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, basecat1@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Tony,
                    >
                    > For more information on the book, and its list of contents, check
                    out this
                    > link.
                    >
                    > http://www.savasbeatie.com/Triumph&Defeat2.html
                    >
                    > Regards from the Garden State,
                    >
                    > Steve Basic

                    Thanks. Just received the book, and this one *does* have a chapter
                    on Raymond (Blitzkrieg). But sadly it looks similar to the Bearss
                    description of the battle.

                    The chapter on the value of Vicksburg looks promising, it appears to
                    be an open rebuttal to Castel's N&S article.
                  • James W. Durney
                    Tony, I do not agree that three stars is above average. I use the following system of stars. five stars is an A or Excellent four stars is a B or Above
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 18, 2007
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                      Tony,

                      I do not agree that three stars is above average.

                      I use the following system of stars.
                      five stars is an A or Excellent
                      four stars is a B or Above Average
                      three stars is a C or Average
                      two stars is a D or Fair
                      one star is an F or Poor

                      Since I expect to enjoy the books I buy, four or five stars is normal.
                      Your saying three stars is "above average" is not the experience I see
                      in doing and reading reviews.

                      Call it inflation but four stars is about the average for a good book.
                      this would make your three star rating below average and would make me
                      reconsider buying the book.

                      James
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