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Re: [civilwarwest] Chickamauga by Turchin

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  • SDE80@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/1/2006 3:25:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I can confirm Nick was at Chattanooga, as we were in a group that visited the Wauhatchie
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 1, 2006
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      In a message dated 11/1/2006 3:25:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, nickrelee@... writes:

      Will take me a few days to get around to scanning as I just got back from a week+ of touring (Chattanooga, Chickamauga and Perryville). 



      I can confirm Nick was at Chattanooga, as we were in a group that visited the Wauhatchie sites last week.  

      Sam Elliott
    • nickrelee@aol.com
      A great time that was. I had never been on Tyndale Hill. I had previously visited Smith Hill but had not ventured down that road to get the better view of
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 1, 2006
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        A great time that was.  I had never been on Tyndale Hill.  I had previously visited Smith Hill but had not ventured down that road to get the better view of Lookout Mtn.
         
        And Perryville is a true gem, just hope we can preserve more before times runs out there too.  We have a head start there, just need to keep going.
        --Nick
         
        In a message dated 11/1/2006 3:57:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, SDE80@... writes:
        I can confirm Nick was at Chattanooga, as we were in a group that visited the Wauhatchie sites last week.  

        Sam Elliott
         
      • hank9174
        It was 1984 when I last visited Perryville. At that time there were perhaps 8 stops using a mimeographed, type- written guide. How is it now? HankC ...
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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          It was 1984 when I last visited Perryville.

          At that time there were perhaps 8 stops using a mimeographed, type-
          written guide.

          How is it now?


          HankC

          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > A great time that was. I had never been on Tyndale Hill. I had
          previously
          > visited Smith Hill but had not ventured down that road to get the
          better view
          > of Lookout Mtn.
          >
          > And Perryville is a true gem, just hope we can preserve more before
          times
          > runs out there too. We have a head start there, just need to keep
          going.
          > --Nick
          >
          > In a message dated 11/1/2006 3:57:31 PM Mountain Standard Time,
          > SDE80@... writes:
          >
          > I can confirm Nick was at Chattanooga, as we were in a group that
          visited
          > the Wauhatchie sites last week.
          >
          > Sam Elliott
          >
        • keeno2@aol.com
          In a message dated 11/2/2006 8:38:34 AM Central Standard Time, clarkc@missouri.edu writes: At that time there were perhaps 8 stops using a mimeographed,
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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            In a message dated 11/2/2006 8:38:34 AM Central Standard Time, clarkc@... writes:
            At that time there were perhaps 8 stops using a mimeographed, type-written guide.

            How is it now?
            Kentucky has put in a lot of effort since you were there, acquiring property, etc. It's very nice still improving daily. (I visited in '03.)
            Ken
          • bjer50010
            ... type-written ... property, ... I ll second that. I was there towards the middle of June of this year. I did post a couple of thoughts at the time but
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
              >
              > In a message dated 11/2/2006 8:38:34 AM Central Standard Time,
              > clarkc@... writes:
              > At that time there were perhaps 8 stops using a mimeographed,
              type-written
              > guide.
              >
              > How is it now?
              > Kentucky has put in a lot of effort since you were there, acquiring
              property,
              > etc. It's very nice still improving daily. (I visited in '03.)
              > Ken
              >

              I'll second that. I was there towards the middle of June of this
              year. I did post a couple of thoughts at the time but they appear to
              have gotten lost in some of the strangeness occurring at that time.

              As far as the battlefield goes, it is extremely well maintained. The
              day I visited, there were several groundskeepers out and about, but
              only a couple of other visitors. They have a map in the VC which
              indicates the acquisitions of ground for the park. Amazing amount of
              acquisition. They are now up to over 20 stops.

              I was able to cover most of the field within about 2 hrs. of walking.
              There are placards at each of the stops which are informative. I
              also brought along the tour guide from the Perryville issue of Blue
              and Grey.

              I definitely recommend the park to anyone who is in the area.

              JB Jewell
            • keeno2@aol.com
              In a message dated 11/2/2006 12:04:10 PM Central Standard Time, barry.jewell@yale.edu writes: I definitely recommend the park to anyone who is in the area. If
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                In a message dated 11/2/2006 12:04:10 PM Central Standard Time, barry.jewell@... writes:
                I definitely recommend the park to anyone who is in the area. 
                If your route allows, a stop at the museum and frontier village in Bardstown is also a definite worthwhile. An excellent museum.
                Ken
              • nickrelee@aol.com
                As others have said, the park is very nice. About two dozen stops, almost all walking. So if you have a hard time walking around it would be a tough visit.
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                  As others have said, the park is very nice.  About two dozen stops, almost all walking.  So if you have a hard time walking around it would be a tough visit.  From those stops you can see most of the action.  And the areas outside the park are not yet developed so you have good views of those areas and can really visualize the battle.  I got there early, about 3 hours before the VC opened, and was able to do nearly every stop by then.  The few I missed were the more distant spots and time was of the essence.  When the VC opened there was about 4-5 other tourists and 3 employees, which seemed pretty busy for a late Oct sunday. 
                  --Nick
                   
                  In a message dated 11/2/2006 7:38:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, clarkc@... writes:

                  It was 1984 when I last visited Perryville.

                  At that time there were perhaps 8 stops using a mimeographed, type-
                  written guide.

                  How is it now?
                   
                • gnrljejohnston
                  ... to ... The ... of ... walking. ... While your that close to Richmond, KY (about twenty - thirty miles) it would pay to visit the sites of the battle of
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "bjer50010" <barry.jewell@...>
                    wrote:
                    >

                    > I'll second that. I was there towards the middle of June of this
                    > year. I did post a couple of thoughts at the time but they appear
                    to
                    > have gotten lost in some of the strangeness occurring at that time.
                    >
                    > As far as the battlefield goes, it is extremely well maintained.
                    The
                    > day I visited, there were several groundskeepers out and about, but
                    > only a couple of other visitors. They have a map in the VC which
                    > indicates the acquisitions of ground for the park. Amazing amount
                    of
                    > acquisition. They are now up to over 20 stops.
                    >
                    > I was able to cover most of the field within about 2 hrs. of
                    walking.
                    > There are placards at each of the stops which are informative. I
                    > also brought along the tour guide from the Perryville issue of Blue
                    > and Grey.
                    >
                    > I definitely recommend the park to anyone who is in the area.
                    >
                    > JB Jewell

                    While your that close to Richmond, KY (about twenty - thirty miles)
                    it would pay to visit the sites of the battle of Richmond. They have
                    a driving tour guide that can be obtained at the Chamber of Commerce.
                    Do pay a visit to the cemetery that is on the south edge of town were
                    the Confederate dead were buried. I believe I posted some photos of
                    that cemetery and the church that served as a hospital. Plus,
                    everything is free :-)

                    JEJ
                    >
                  • gnrljejohnston
                    ... Bardstown ... Also nearby Shaker Village
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                      >
                      > In a message dated 11/2/2006 12:04:10 PM Central Standard Time,
                      > barry.jewell@... writes:
                      > I definitely recommend the park to anyone who is in the area.
                      > If your route allows, a stop at the museum and frontier village in
                      Bardstown
                      > is also a definite worthwhile. An excellent museum.
                      > Ken
                      >

                      Also nearby Shaker Village
                    • keeno2@aol.com
                      In a message dated 11/2/2006 8:01:45 PM Central Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com writes: Also nearby Shaker Village Of that I have know knowledge. Is it
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                        In a message dated 11/2/2006 8:01:45 PM Central Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@... writes:
                        Also nearby Shaker Village
                        Of that I have know knowledge. Is it worth a stop in a pressed situation? With only so much time to cover thus and such an area? Where is it and what is its interest? Was unaware of a Shaker presence in the area. A strange group with strange ideas that guaranteed its demise -- much in the same vein as the King David group in Michigan. I'll definitely include it in the next trip that way if you'll recommend it.
                        Ken
                         
                        Ken
                      • pete@blueone.net
                        If a lurker can throw in a comment, Shaker Village is very worthwhile. If you have time, eat a meal there and you ll enjoy food as never before--everything
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                          If a lurker can throw in a comment, Shaker Village is very worthwhile. If you have time, eat a
                          meal there and you'll enjoy food as never before--everything grown or raised on the site or a
                          nearby farm. But to eat genly requires a reservation a few days in advance
                          Pete Cohron
                          Lexington, KY



                          ------- Original Message -------
                          From : keeno2@...[mailto:keeno2@...]
                          Sent : 11/2/2006 10:14:33 PM
                          To : civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          Cc :
                          Subject : RE: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Chickamauga by Turchin

                          In a message dated 11/2/2006 8:01:45 PM Central Standard Time,
                          GnrlJEJohnston@... writes:
                          Also nearby Shaker Village
                          Of that I have know knowledge. Is it worth a stop in a pressed situation?
                          With only so much time to cover thus and such an area? Where is it and what is
                          its interest? Was unaware of a Shaker presence in the area. A strange group with
                          strange ideas that guaranteed its demise -- much in the same vein as the King
                          David group in Michigan. I'll definitely include it in the next trip that way
                          if you'll recommend it.
                          Ken

                          Ken
                        • DORR64OVI@aol.com
                          In a message dated 11/2/2006 9:05:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com writes: While your that close to Richmond, KY (about twenty - thirty
                          Message 12 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                            In a message dated 11/2/2006 9:05:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@... writes:
                            While your that close to Richmond, KY (about twenty - thirty miles)
                            it would pay to visit the sites of the battle of Richmond. They have
                            a driving tour guide that can be obtained at the Chamber of Commerce.
                            Do pay a visit to the cemetery that is on the south edge of town were
                            the Confederate dead were buried. I believe I posted some photos of
                            that cemetery and the church that served as a hospital. Plus,
                            everything is free :-)

                            JEJ
                            General....after this years Perryville reenactment, myself and my messmate drove over to Richmond and took the driving tour of the Richmond battle.  It takes you all the way down to Big Hill and then you work your way back to Richmond.   Not a lot to see other than the church but the Battlefield Association has recently purchased more land and the beginnings of a park with a visitors center are there.   The potential for making another attraction like Perryville is obvious.  The cemetery was interesting as well.
                                   It appears that the state of KY and its areas have come to appreciate the benefits of tourists and their willingness to spend $ on things of historical interest.  Up the road from Richmond is also the recreated site of Boonsboro which was ok to tour.  The real gem here was that we learned about a recently accessed CW earthen fort over the river from Boonsboro.  If you are hearty enough to make the hike up to the top from the highway, it was worth the effort.
                             
                            Kent Dorr
                          • gnrljejohnston
                            ... situation? ... and what is ... strange group with ... as the King ... trip that way ... Ken, Shaker Village is surely worth a stop. The Shakers that were
                            Message 13 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                              >
                              > In a message dated 11/2/2006 8:01:45 PM Central Standard Time,
                              > GnrlJEJohnston@... writes:
                              > Also nearby Shaker Village
                              > Of that I have know knowledge. Is it worth a stop in a pressed
                              situation?
                              > With only so much time to cover thus and such an area? Where is it
                              and what is
                              > its interest? Was unaware of a Shaker presence in the area. A
                              strange group with
                              > strange ideas that guaranteed its demise -- much in the same vein
                              as the King
                              > David group in Michigan. I'll definitely include it in the next
                              trip that way
                              > if you'll recommend it.
                              > Ken
                              >
                              > Ken
                              >

                              Ken,
                              Shaker Village is surely worth a stop. The Shakers that were there
                              following the Battles of Richmond and Perryville served as nurses,
                              orderlies, and took wounded into their homes, both Union and
                              Confederate. One of the gals that helps run it (I forgot her name,
                              but she use to be "Host Orphan" in AOL's Mason Dixon Room) and is one
                              of the best sources of battles in that area. She is the one that got
                              the Perryville NPS Supt. give me a personal tour of the battlefield.

                              JEJ
                            • keeno2@aol.com
                              In a message dated 11/2/2006 9:35:24 PM Central Standard Time, pete@blueone.net writes: If a lurker can throw in a comment, Shaker Village is very worthwhile.
                              Message 14 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                                In a message dated 11/2/2006 9:35:24 PM Central Standard Time, pete@... writes:
                                If a lurker can throw in a comment, Shaker Village is very worthwhile.  If you have time, eat a meal there and you'll enjoy food as never before--everything grown or raised on the site or a nearby farm.  But to eat genly requires a reservation a few days in advance. Pete Cohron
                                Excellent advice, honored lurker, but missing in your post is the location of this Shaker Village. Up this way we have the Amish. And if you want meat and pototoes to die for, slide over to one of their communities. I'm guessing the Amish and the Shakers have absolutely nothing in common except for a bottom-line appreciation for good food and plenty of it. We're certainly not going to find a dish of tossed greens lightly sprinkled with balsamic vinegar and olive oil with a scattering of garlic-touched croutons.
                                 
                                Will note your response and mark my calendar with indelible ink. Thanks in advance,
                                Ken.
                              • keeno2@aol.com
                                In a message dated 11/2/2006 9:51:23 PM Central Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com writes: She is the one that got the Perryville NPS Supt. give me a
                                Message 15 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                                  In a message dated 11/2/2006 9:51:23 PM Central Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@... writes:
                                  She is the one that got the Perryville NPS Supt. give me a personal tour of the battlefield.
                                  Thank you evermuch General, but no one has yet given me the town near or in which this village can be found. I'd very much like to stop at a real Shaker community on the way to something more focal. It would be a curiousity like the Oneida Community or the Amana Colonies or the Amish communities that dot the sweeping farmland of the great plains. (I recall some Hutterites somewhere north of where I grew up.) Of some historical but little personal interest. A blip in the road. These people were a thread in the tapesty. Good, decent, God-fearing. (Hate that word: God-fearing.) But a fundamental piece of the republic. "You can do as you wish, believe what you want, worship as you will, and if you can bring up a wagon of shelled corn, we will buy it." God bless America.
                                  OK. I'm waxing stupid.'
                                  Ken
                                • keeno2@aol.com
                                  Mr. Dorr. Respect, sir. Kentucky seems to have figured out that it wasn t going to get federal recognition and simply set out on its own to preserve the sites.
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Nov 2, 2006
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                                    Mr. Dorr. Respect, sir. Kentucky seems to have figured out that it wasn't going to get federal recognition and simply set out on its own to preserve the sites. So it may have been with a left-eye toward tourist revenue, its lean toward CW sites deserves kudos. They've done a fantastic job on sites ignored by the NPS. Bless Kentucky! Does "God Bless Kentucky" fit in the lyrics?
                                    Ken
                                  • gnrljejohnston
                                    ... location of this Shaker Village. Ken. Ken, Shaker Village is in Pleasant Hill which is close to Bardstown. Go to the URL for accurate info.
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Nov 3, 2006
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                                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Excellent advice, honored lurker, but missing in your post is the
                                      location of this Shaker Village. Ken.

                                      Ken, Shaker Village is in Pleasant Hill which is close to Bardstown.

                                      Go to the URL for accurate info. www.shakervillageky.org/

                                      JEJ
                                      >
                                    • gnrljejohnston
                                      ... or in ... Shaker ... Ken, Shaker Village is in Pleasant Hill which is near Harrodsburg. Just a short drive from either Lexington, Richmond, or Perryville.
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Nov 3, 2006
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                                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Thank you evermuch General, but no one has yet given me the town near
                                        or in
                                        > which this village can be found. I'd very much like to stop at a real
                                        Shaker
                                        > community on the way to something more focal. > Ken

                                        Ken, Shaker Village is in Pleasant Hill which is near Harrodsburg.
                                        Just a short drive from either Lexington, Richmond, or Perryville.

                                        JEJ
                                        >
                                      • mobile_96
                                        ...
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Nov 3, 2006
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                                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@... wrote:
                                          < They've done a fantastic job on sites ignored by
                                          the NPS. Bless Kentucky! Does "God Bless Kentucky" fit in the lyrics?
                                          Ken.>
                                          And don't forget to visit Merchant's Row in Perryville.
                                          Last I heard they were still working on turning as much of it as
                                          possible into a Living History village. In '03 they were working on the
                                          Dr's Office and home. A short distance north of town is Bragg's HQ.When
                                          there last, the building had residents, but I understand they were in
                                          the process of getting them out, so they could get it restored and
                                          opened. You can also take the winding drive (off the main road just a
                                          bit south of the house) down behind the house, to the location of the
                                          only still operating spring in the area. The spring is not visited
                                          often, as I have to get out and move branches from the road before
                                          proceeding down.
                                          There are a few soldiers, from the battle, buried in the town cemetery.
                                          Even without the battle held nearby, the town has a interesting early
                                          history.
                                          Chuck
                                        • gnrljejohnston
                                          ... lyrics? ... the ... HQ.When ... in ... a ... the ... cemetery. ... early ... Also, you can take the road West out of Perryville, go to the end and turn
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Nov 3, 2006
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                                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "mobile_96" <mobile_96@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@ wrote:
                                            > < They've done a fantastic job on sites ignored by
                                            > the NPS. Bless Kentucky! Does "God Bless Kentucky" fit in the
                                            lyrics?
                                            > Ken.>
                                            > And don't forget to visit Merchant's Row in Perryville.
                                            > Last I heard they were still working on turning as much of it as
                                            > possible into a Living History village. In '03 they were working on
                                            the
                                            > Dr's Office and home. A short distance north of town is Bragg's
                                            HQ.When
                                            > there last, the building had residents, but I understand they were
                                            in
                                            > the process of getting them out, so they could get it restored and
                                            > opened. You can also take the winding drive (off the main road just
                                            a
                                            > bit south of the house) down behind the house, to the location of
                                            the
                                            > only still operating spring in the area. The spring is not visited
                                            > often, as I have to get out and move branches from the road before
                                            > proceeding down.
                                            > There are a few soldiers, from the battle, buried in the town
                                            cemetery.
                                            > Even without the battle held nearby, the town has a interesting
                                            early
                                            > history.
                                            > Chuck

                                            Also, you can take the road West out of Perryville, go to the end and
                                            turn right and it will loop back to the road you were on out of
                                            Perryville, but heading East. This little loop is quite interesting
                                            for there are several markers there, including where the first
                                            encounter of Confederate troops with Sheridan's troops, thus
                                            beginning the battle of Perryville. I believe I posted pix of this
                                            area on the website.

                                            JEJ
                                            >
                                          • pete@blueone.net
                                            Shakertown is on Hwy 68 southwest of Lexington and northeast of Harrodsburg. From Lexington, look for Hwy 68 (Harrodsburg Road) on the southwest side of the
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Nov 4, 2006
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                                              Shakertown is on Hwy 68 southwest of Lexington and northeast of Harrodsburg. From Lexington, look
                                              for Hwy 68 (Harrodsburg Road) on the southwest side of the city.
                                              If in Frankfort, take 127 south to Danville and then go northeast to Shakertown.
                                              Signs to Perryville in Danville and Harrodsburg abound--you'll have no problem getting to P'ville
                                              form either location.



                                              ------- Original Message -------
                                              From : keeno2@...[mailto:keeno2@...]
                                              Sent : 11/2/2006 11:06:55 PM
                                              To : civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                              Cc :
                                              Subject : RE: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Chickamauga by Turchin

                                              In a message dated 11/2/2006 9:35:24 PM Central Standard Time,
                                              pete@... writes:
                                              If a lurker can throw in a comment, Shaker Village is very worthwhile. If
                                              you have time, eat a meal there and you'll enjoy food as never
                                              before--everything grown or raised on the site or a nearby farm. But to eat genly requires a
                                              reservation a few days in advance. Pete Cohron
                                              Excellent advice, honored lurker, but missing in your post is the location of
                                              this Shaker Village. Up this way we have the Amish. And if you want meat and
                                              pototoes to die for, slide over to one of their communities. I'm guessing the
                                              Amish and the Shakers have absolutely nothing in common except for a
                                              bottom-line appreciation for good food and plenty of it. We're certainly not going to
                                              find a dish of tossed greens lightly sprinkled with balsamic vinegar and olive
                                              oil with a scattering of garlic-touched croutons.

                                              Will note your response and mark my calendar with indelible ink. Thanks in
                                              advance,
                                              Ken.
                                            • nickrelee@aol.com
                                              As posted earlier I may have found a copy of Chickamauga by Turchin that was owned by Rosecrans. I looked thru the entire book and found only 4 pages where
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Nov 7, 2006
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                                                As posted earlier I may have found a copy of Chickamauga by Turchin that was owned by Rosecrans.  I looked thru the entire book and found only 4 pages where notes were made.  I just posted these scans onto the photo page on the group's homepage.  Its in a folder called "Pages from Chickamauga by Turchin"
                                                 
                                                The notes are pretty limited.  I didn't find anything that really confirmed that it was Rosy's book.  Online I found a place selling a letter of his which you can view at:
                                                It appears to me that the handwriting is similar, but the two samples are small so a professional handwriting analyst probably couldn't say anything for sure.  But go ahead and look at the two samples and see what you think.  At first glance I'd say that the known letter doesn't destroy the possibility that the book was Rosy's. 
                                                --Nick
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