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Re: [civilwarwest] The Hypocracy of Davis

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  • keeno2@aol.com
    In a message dated 10/29/2006 6:13:16 PM Central Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com writes: How much co-operation did Davis give JEJ. How much harmony did
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 29, 2006
      In a message dated 10/29/2006 6:13:16 PM Central Standard Time, GnrlJEJohnston@... writes:
      How much co-operation did Davis give JEJ.  How much harmony did he extend.  Could it be that Davis himself was the biggest hypocrat.
      Classic "Do as I say; not as I do."
      Ken
    • rbaquero@netzero.net
      I would say President Jefferson Davis sometimes had troubles with his own attitude...he was very unfair with some Confederate officers favoring others in a
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 29, 2006

         

         I would say President Jefferson Davis sometimes had troubles with his own attitude...he was very unfair with some Confederate officers favoring others in a crucial time that could affect the course of the war....but hey ! President Abraham Lincoln made a lot of mistakes too and maybe even bigger

        .

        -Raul Hernandez-Baquero

      • Ronald black
        Davis favored leaders of all kinds, both political and civil, that he knew from his past expericiences. He probably was the most well rounded individual in
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 30, 2006
          Davis favored leaders of all kinds, both political and civil, that he knew from his past expericiences.  He probably was the most well rounded individual in the south in 1861.  Born in Kentucky, attended college at Transvania, in Lexington KY.  Here he met (I believe) A. S. Johnston and Polk.  He knew many men from Kentucky.  Later, he attended and graduated from West Point, again with Polk and Johnston.  He developed a life-long friendship with both men.  He served in the federal government as a cabinet secretary, and a senator from Mississippi.  During this time, he met many leaders who he later trusted with confederate goverment positions.  He was a mid-level military leader in the Mexican war where again he met many military officers.  He had political, military and civil leadership qualities far above almost all others.  He seemed the perfect candidate for the confederate presidenacy.  He probably did a good job when everything is considered.  We, here, studing the civil war tend to concentrate on only the military aspects.  His favoritism for West Point graduates becomes very obvious.  He appointed some who should not have been, such as T. H. Holmes to the Trans-Mississippi in late 1862 and David Twiggs to Dept. #1 in 1861.  But the biggest criticism I have heard is his support of friends long after they made mistakes or performed badly.  But not mentioned is another gross error of his of not grooming subordinates for promotion to higher command and general rank.  The pool of available senior army officers in 1864-65,to take command was very limited because of this failing in him.  Evidence of the very restricted pool of talent is his tendancy to look to only the generals holding the rank of General and not to groom any from the rank of Lieutenant General.  His promotion of Hood also indicated a tendancy to favor men for promotion based on other than the pertinent requirements.  It is not a job requirement for the rank of Lt. Gen. and a corps command, to ride with President Jefferson Davis in his carriage around Richmond.  I suggest that his failure to expand the pool of general officer talent using qualified leaders, ranks as high as any other problem he displayed.  
          Which officer to promote?  We can build a list of promotable generals.  To start the list of leaders, let me mention A. P, Stewart, A. P. Hill, Patrick Cleburne, Wade Hampton and Nathan B. Forrest.  I bet this list will grow but Davis didn't see it.
           
          Ron 
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:32 AM
          Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] The Hypocracy of Davis

           

           I would say President Jefferson Davis sometimes had troubles with his own attitude...he was very unfair with some Confederate officers favoring others in a crucial time that could affect the course of the war....but hey ! President Abraham Lincoln made a lot of mistakes too and maybe even bigger

          .

          -Raul Hernandez-Baquero


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        • gnrljejohnston
          ... generals. To start the list of leaders, let me mention A. P, Stewart, A. P. Hill, Patrick Cleburne, Wade Hampton and Nathan B. Forrest. I bet this list
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 30, 2006
            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Ronald black" <rblack0981@...>
            wrote:

            > Which officer to promote? We can build a list of promotable
            generals. To start the list of leaders, let me mention A. P,
            Stewart, A. P. Hill, Patrick Cleburne, Wade Hampton and Nathan B.
            Forrest. I bet this list will grow but Davis didn't see it.
            >
            >
            >
            Even with promotion requests made by Johnston was met with
            vindictiveness on the part of Davis. Moore's Alabamians needed a new
            commander and Richmond requested a recommendation. Johnston went to
            see Stewart and found out that Stewart's preference would be Colonel
            James T. Holtzclaw. Johnston then notified Richmond of this
            recommendation, but Davis ignored this request an appointed a
            stranger to the Army of Tennessee, Colonel Alpheus Baker to the
            position. Once again, Johnston faced as an adversary his own
            government and commander-in-chief.

            JEJ who of course is unbiased :-)
          • Bob Huddleston
            I would submit that AL made lost of mistakes -- but not keeping folk around because he liked them, nor pushing folk aside who disagreed with him. As he told
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 30, 2006
              I would submit that AL made lost of mistakes -- but not keeping folk around
              because he liked them, nor pushing folk aside who disagreed with him. As he
              told Joe Hooker, "What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk
              the dictatorship." He once remarked that he would hold the horse of the
              general who brought victories. Considering that holding a horse was the job
              of a small slave boy, one cannot imagine Davis making such a comment.

              Take care,

              Bob

              Judy and Bob Huddleston
              10643 Sperry Street
              Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
              303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...

              ...the greatest and the noblest man of the last century was Abraham
              Lincoln.Though America was his motherland and he was an American, he
              regarded the whole world as his native land.

              Mahatma Gandhi, August 26, 1905




              ________________________________

              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of rbaquero@...
              Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:32 AM
              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] The Hypocracy of Davis


              I would say President Jefferson Davis sometimes had troubles with his own
              attitude...he was very unfair with some Confederate officers favoring others
              in a crucial time that could affect the course of the war....but hey !
              President Abraham Lincoln made a lot of mistakes too and maybe even bigger

              .

              -Raul Hernandez-Baquero
            • Bill Gower
              The other important point about AL is that he was willing to learn from his mistakes. He knew that he knew nothing about war so he read military books and he
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 30, 2006

                The other important point about AL is that he was willing to learn from his mistakes.  He knew that he knew nothing about war so he read military books and he talked to military leaders.  JD thought that he knew all there was about war and he didn’t bother to seek help or read up on new techniques.  AL had and used his Secretary of War to advantage while for all intents and purposes JD was the President and the Secretary of War.  For the South the position of Secretary of War was nothing more than a Yes man to JD and a paper pusher.

                 

                Bill

                 

                 


                From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bob Huddleston
                Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 4:56 PM
                To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] The Hypocracy of Davis

                 

                I would submit that AL made lost of mistakes -- but not keeping folk around
                because he liked them, nor pushing folk aside who disagreed with him. As he
                told Joe Hooker, "What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk
                the dictatorship. " He once remarked that he would hold the horse of the
                general who brought victories. Considering that holding a horse was the job
                of a small slave boy, one cannot imagine Davis making such a comment.

                Take care,

                Bob

                Judy and Bob Huddleston
                10643 Sperry Street
                Northglenn , CO 80234-3612
                303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@ comcast.net

                ...the greatest and the noblest man of the last century was Abraham
                Lincoln.Though America was his motherland and he was an American, he
                regarded the whole world as his native land.

                Mahatma Gandhi, August 26, 1905

                ____________ _________ _________ __

                From: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com] On
                Behalf Of rbaquero@netzero. net
                Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:32 AM
                To: civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] The Hypocracy of Davis

                I would say President Jefferson Davis sometimes had troubles with his own
                attitude...he was very unfair with some Confederate officers favoring others
                in a crucial time that could affect the course of the war....but hey !
                President Abraham Lincoln made a lot of mistakes too and maybe even bigger

                .

                -Raul Hernandez-Baquero

              • rbaquero@netzero.net
                Hi JEJ ! I strongly agree of what you said about President Davis, recommendations came to him from powerful people ( state governor, senators, newspapers and
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 30, 2006

                   

                   Hi JEJ !

                              I strongly agree of what you said about President Davis, recommendations came to him from powerful people ( state governor, senators, newspapers  and military leaders ) regarding  qualify CSA Officers and Davis** ALWAYS ** ignored them chosen another ones....the history is there all we have to do is to read it :-)

                  - Raul

                • rbaquero@netzero.net
                  I do not want to make a comment about it ..... -Raul
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 30, 2006

                     

                    I do not want to make a comment about it .....

                    -Raul

                  • Tom Mix
                    You don t have to so don t worry about it. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rbaquero@netzero.net Sent:
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 30, 2006

                      You don’t have to so don’t worry about it.

                       

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rbaquero@...
                      Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 6:45 PM
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] The Hypocracy of Davis

                       

                       

                      I do not want to make a comment about it .....

                      -Raul

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