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Granny Lyons??

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  • tristan4th
    Greetings All! Do hope this note finds all doing dandy & well! Autumn is on it s way here in west Oregon, bringing rain and shorter days. More reading! Yeah!
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 19, 2006
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      Greetings All!
      Do hope this note finds all doing dandy & well!
      Autumn is on it's way here in west Oregon, bringing rain and
      shorter days. More reading! Yeah! Soooo...Starting over again on the
      shelves. Back to B. Catton's "The Coming Fury", (3rd time..lol).
      My question or request from you fine folks, is your opinion on, at
      the time, Capt. Nathanial Lyons, dressing up as Frank Blair Jr.'s
      grandmother and spying on Frost's "militia" in St.Louis. Catton, like
      other authors I've noticed always refer to John G. Nicolay Papers and
      his correspondence with Gnrl. Sherman sometime after the War. I believe
      in "80s. Before "Nicolay", Gnrl. sherman evidently denied it, simply
      because Lyons had a heavy beard growing bright red hair..???
      I've never read "Nicolay's Papers"...Soooo was just curious if youins
      had any input? output? on this particular subject???
      Again, I do hope all are doing very good. Thankyou for your time and
      consideration.
      Respectfully Your Humble Servant,
      Capt. McCracken................
    • nickrelee@aol.com
      Somewhere I read that Lyon had a pretty good idea what was going on in the camp, that he wouldn t have needed to do a personal reconnaisance. And that his
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 19, 2006
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        Somewhere I read that Lyon had a pretty good idea what was going on in the camp, that he wouldn't have needed to do a personal reconnaisance.  And that his red beard would have blown his cover as a woman.  Unfortunately I don't have a Lyon bio to check against but I'd guess if a man went into the camp as a woman, it wasn't Lyon.
        --Nick
         
        In a message dated 9/19/2006 6:15:47 PM Mountain Daylight Time, tristan4th@... writes:
          My question or request from you fine folks, is your opinion on, at
        the time, Capt. Nathanial Lyons, dressing up as Frank Blair Jr.'s
        grandmother and spying on Frost's "militia" in St.Louis. Catton, like
        other authors I've noticed always refer to John G. Nicolay Papers and
        his correspondence with Gnrl. Sherman sometime after the War. I believe
        in "80s. Before "Nicolay", Gnrl. sherman evidently denied it, simply
        because Lyons had a heavy beard growing bright red hair..???
          I've never read "Nicolay's Papers"...Soooo was just curious if youins
        had any input? output? on this particular subject???
         
      • Carl Williams
        according to Brooksher in BLOODY HILL, someone figured out Lyon could impersonate a known elderly woman who went about in a carriage wearing a veil and never
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 20, 2006
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          according to Brooksher in BLOODY HILL, someone figured out Lyon could
          impersonate a known elderly woman who went about in a carriage wearing
          a veil and never spoke but simply waved. Indeed, it was Blair's blind
          mother-in-law. Quite convenient.

          You have me wondering about this story now, tho.

          carl

          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > Somewhere I read that Lyon had a pretty good idea what was going on
          in the
          > camp, that he wouldn't have needed to do a personal reconnaisance.
          And that
          > his red beard would have blown his cover as a woman. Unfortunately
          I don't
          > have a Lyon bio to check against but I'd guess if a man went into
          the camp as a
          > woman, it wasn't Lyon.
          > --Nick
          >
          > In a message dated 9/19/2006 6:15:47 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
          > tristan4th@... writes:
          >
          > My question or request from you fine folks, is your opinion on, at
          > the time, Capt. Nathanial Lyons, dressing up as Frank Blair Jr.'s
          > grandmother and spying on Frost's "militia" in St.Louis. Catton, like
          > other authors I've noticed always refer to John G. Nicolay Papers and
          > his correspondence with Gnrl. Sherman sometime after the War. I
          believe
          > in "80s. Before "Nicolay", Gnrl. sherman evidently denied it, simply
          > because Lyons had a heavy beard growing bright red hair..???
          > I've never read "Nicolay's Papers"...Soooo was just curious if youins
          > had any input? output? on this particular subject???
          >
        • nickrelee@aol.com
          If Lyon could impersonate Blair s blind mother in law, does that mean that she was a rather unattractive old lady? --Nick In a message dated 9/20/2006 4:18:53
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 20, 2006
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            If Lyon could impersonate Blair's blind mother in law, does that mean that she was a rather unattractive old lady? 
            --Nick
             
            In a message dated 9/20/2006 4:18:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time, carlw4514@... writes:
            according to Brooksher in BLOODY HILL, someone figured out Lyon could
            impersonate a known elderly woman who went about in a carriage wearing
            a veil and never spoke but simply waved. Indeed, it was Blair's blind
            mother-in-law. Quite convenient.
             
          • Carl Williams
            I can t tell if you re expecting an answer or not. The old lady was blind and probably ugly, yeah. The story is she wore a veil etc. So it was easy to
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 20, 2006
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              I can't tell if you're expecting an answer or not. The old lady was
              blind and probably ugly, yeah. The story is she wore a veil etc. So it
              was easy to impersonate such a person, supposedly. Like I say, you've
              got me wondering, all right, about the whole thing.

              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > If Lyon could impersonate Blair's blind mother in law, does that
              mean that
              > she was a rather unattractive old lady?
              > --Nick
            • Steve Saultz
              Good gracious! One would think huh? LMAO....Thankyou! nickrelee@aol.com wrote: If Lyon could impersonate Blair s blind mother in law, does that
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 21, 2006
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                        Good gracious! One would think huh?  LMAO....Thankyou!

                nickrelee@... wrote:
                If Lyon could impersonate Blair's blind mother in law, does that mean that she was a rather unattractive old lady? 
                --Nick
                 
                In a message dated 9/20/2006 4:18:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time, carlw4514@yahoo. com writes:
                according to Brooksher in BLOODY HILL, someone figured out Lyon could
                impersonate a known elderly woman who went about in a carriage wearing
                a veil and never spoke but simply waved. Indeed, it was Blair's blind
                mother-in-law. Quite convenient.
                 

              • nickrelee@aol.com
                Nah I wasn t expecting an answer, more a rhetorical question. My guess is that its one of those stories that was started because if Lyons (or whoever told
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 21, 2006
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                  Nah I wasn't expecting an answer, more a rhetorical question.  My guess is that its one of those stories that was started because if Lyons (or whoever told it first) had told the truth it would have revealed a source that they didn't want know publicly.  Don't "out" a spy at the beginning of the war, wait for your memoirs to reveal all, and if you don't live to write memoirs then the myth becomes the only version.
                  --Nick
                   
                  In a message dated 9/21/2006 4:33:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time, carlw4514@... writes:
                  I can't tell if you're expecting an answer or not. The old lady was
                  blind and probably ugly, yeah. The story is she wore a veil etc. So it
                  was easy to impersonate such a person, supposedly. Like I say, you've
                  got me wondering, all right, about the whole thing.
                   
                • Dave Smith
                  Chris Phillips, now at the University of Cincinnati and author of a bio on Lyon, holds that it was indeed Lyon who made the reconnaisance. He confirmed the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 22, 2006
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                    Chris Phillips, now at the University of Cincinnati and author of a bio
                    on Lyon, holds that it was indeed Lyon who made the reconnaisance.

                    He confirmed the story at a presentation he made on Lyons at our Round
                    Table.

                    The book is still available, I believe, and a very good read. The
                    concept of Lyons as the great military leader cut down early is pretty
                    well dispelled by Phillips.

                    Dave

                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I can't tell if you're expecting an answer or not. The old lady was
                    > blind and probably ugly, yeah. The story is she wore a veil etc. So it
                    > was easy to impersonate such a person, supposedly. Like I say, you've
                    > got me wondering, all right, about the whole thing.
                    >
                    > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > If Lyon could impersonate Blair's blind mother in law, does that
                    > mean that
                    > > she was a rather unattractive old lady?
                    > > --Nick
                    >
                  • Steve Saultz
                    Thanks Dave...Much appreciated...I ll look for it. The concept of Lyons as the great military leader cut down early is pretty well dispelled by Phillips.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 22, 2006
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                                   Thanks Dave...Much appreciated...I'll look for it.
                                   
                                     The
                      concept of Lyons as the great military leader cut down early is pretty
                      well dispelled by Phillips.
                                      Interesting,.. IMHO, from my reads, I found him, Lyons, to be a "cowboy", firecracker with short fuse...lol..somebody wasnt careful they'd definately get burned, flamboyant and cocky as Custer...
                          Lesson in there somewhere..??? Look what happened to both of them...lol..
                            
                               Again, I thankyou Dave......
                                    Respectfully Your Humble Servant,
                                     Capt. McCracken..............

                      Dave Smith <dmsmith001@...> wrote:
                      Chris Phillips, now at the University of Cincinnati and author of a bio
                      on Lyon, holds that it was indeed Lyon who made the reconnaisance.

                      He confirmed the story at a presentation he made on Lyons at our Round
                      Table.

                      The book is still available, I believe, and a very good read. The
                      concept of Lyons as the great military leader cut down early is pretty
                      well dispelled by Phillips.

                      Dave

                      --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@. ..>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > I can't tell if you're expecting an answer or not. The old lady was
                      > blind and probably ugly, yeah. The story is she wore a veil etc. So it
                      > was easy to impersonate such a person, supposedly. Like I say, you've
                      > got me wondering, all right, about the whole thing.
                      >
                      > --- In civilwarwest@ yahoogroups. com, nickrelee@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > If Lyon could impersonate Blair's blind mother in law, does that
                      > mean that
                      > > she was a rather unattractive old lady?
                      > > --Nick
                      >


                    • Dave Smith
                      Phillips details Lyon s strict religious sense of right and wrong that had repeatedly (including in Missouri) landed him in trouble with superiors. Lyon was a
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 24, 2006
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                        Phillips details Lyon's strict religious sense of right and wrong
                        that had repeatedly (including in Missouri) landed him in trouble
                        with superiors.

                        Lyon was a time bomb waiting to explode, and I doubt he'd have
                        survived much into 1862 before someone like Halleck caught up with
                        him.

                        Dave

                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Steve Saultz <tristan4th@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks Dave...Much appreciated...I'll look for it.
                        >
                        > The
                        > concept of Lyons as the great military leader cut down early is
                        pretty
                        > well dispelled by Phillips.
                        > Interesting,.. IMHO, from my reads, I found him,
                        Lyons, to be a "cowboy", firecracker with short fuse...lol..somebody
                        wasnt careful they'd definately get burned, flamboyant and cocky as
                        Custer...
                        > Lesson in there somewhere..??? Look what happened to both of
                        them...lol..
                        >
                        > Again, I thankyou Dave......
                        > Respectfully Your Humble Servant,
                        > Capt. McCracken..............
                        >
                        > Dave Smith <dmsmith001@...> wrote:
                        > Chris Phillips, now at the University of Cincinnati and
                        author of a bio
                        > on Lyon, holds that it was indeed Lyon who made the reconnaisance.
                        >
                        > He confirmed the story at a presentation he made on Lyons at our
                        Round
                        > Table.
                        >
                        > The book is still available, I believe, and a very good read. The
                        > concept of Lyons as the great military leader cut down early is
                        pretty
                        > well dispelled by Phillips.
                        >
                        > Dave
                        >
                        > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Williams" <carlw4514@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I can't tell if you're expecting an answer or not. The old lady
                        was
                        > > blind and probably ugly, yeah. The story is she wore a veil etc.
                        So it
                        > > was easy to impersonate such a person, supposedly. Like I say,
                        you've
                        > > got me wondering, all right, about the whole thing.
                        > >
                        > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > If Lyon could impersonate Blair's blind mother in law, does that
                        > > mean that
                        > > > she was a rather unattractive old lady?
                        > > > --Nick
                        > >
                        >
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