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Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Van Dorn at Holly Springs - Now mostly Vicksburg

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  • nickrelee@aol.com
    Rather than cut and paste the whole last post, but a few points. Sherman s force was not McClernand s force. Sherman had a force before that. When he went
    Message 1 of 36 , Jul 12, 2006
      Rather than cut and paste the whole last post, but a few points.
       
      Sherman's force was not McClernand's force.  Sherman had a force before that.  When he went down to Chickasaw Bluffs he took McClernand's force along but this was Halleck-Grant-Sherman's attempt to prevent McClernand from being the main guy on the river.
       
      Yes McClernand got the independent command because of his politcal connections but why give him an independent command if the operation is already in motion?  If Sherman is the main operation then putting a second command on the river seems a bit odd and cumbersome. 
       
      I believe Halleck made that comment about the command going to someone else if Grant didn't get moving as a way to alert/remind Grant that McClernand had approval for an independent command on the river. 
       
      I'll see if I can find some orders of battle or troop strengths because I don't believe your assertion that Grant and Sherman's forces were about equal.  Even if we call McClernand's force Sherman's I'm still not sure they are equal. 
       
      Also I'm not sure how Grant being at Grenada is going to pin down Pemberton so Sherman has less resistance at Vicksburg.  I thought Grenada was a long way from Vicksburg, again something else to look up tonight.
      --Nick Kurtz
    • theme_music
      ... moving ... large depot if ... Grant s district, and perhaps my meaning would have been clearer if I d used the term Department instead, in this time frame
      Message 36 of 36 , Jul 14, 2006
        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > I'd hardly classify a movement from Grand Junction to Oxford as
        moving
        > around in his district.

        >It looks like a movement south, Grant sounds like he's
        > planning on continuing marching south. Why make Holly Springs a
        large depot if
        > this is it?
        > --Nick Kurtz



        Grant's district, and perhaps my meaning would have been clearer if
        I'd used the term Department instead, in this time frame was
        defined as follows:

        GENERAL ORDERS NO. 1.
        HDQRS. DEPARTMENT OF THE TENNESSEE,
        Jackson, Tenn., October 25, 1862.
        I. In compliance with General Orders, No. 159, Adjutant-General's
        Office, War Department, of date October 16, 1862, the undersigned
        {Grant}hereby assumes command of the Department of the Tennessee,
        which includes Cairo, Fort Henry and Fort Donelson, Northern
        Mississippi, and the portions of Kentucky and Tennessee west of the
        Tennessee River.

        Clearly Holly Springs, about 15 or 20 miles from the MS-TN border
        falls within Grant's geographic area, Oxford probably does as well,
        however, I don't believe the Union advance reached Oxford till about
        2 weeks after the 11/15 date, on which I think we've all agreed
        Halleck's orders regarding the overland advance were clearly in
        place.

        It is important to understand that Grant has an amount of autonomy
        on dispositioning troops in within his Department. Vicksburg, about
        260 miles south into MS, would clearly _not_ be in his Department,
        and moving there, would require additional approvals from his chain
        of command. Is this somehow not clear to you?



        >
        > PS This should be my last post on this topic, this is starting to
        drift into
        > the absurd.


        As I originally stated, I wish to see these actions accurately
        portrayed within the confines of the available historical record.
        If you find that absurd, then so be it.


        Eric
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