Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [civilwarwest] Re: victory&defeat

Expand Messages
  • Steve Saultz
    ...LMAO......
    Message 1 of 27 , May 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      ...LMAO......
    • melchizedek22
      ... to have defeated Forrest,but their mission was to keep Forrest off of Sherman s supply line,that they did do. ... as ... he ... attack ... do ... Or ...
      Message 2 of 27 , May 2, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Giallombardo"
        <DanGiallo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Correct! They completed their mission,sure it would have been great
        to have defeated Forrest,but their mission was to keep Forrest off of
        Sherman's supply line,that they did do.


        > Perhaps, it's me, but I read that as meaning as long
        as
        > Forrest was kept occupied the mission was a sucess.--Dan
        >
        > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > So you're basically saying that by Smith marching out of Memphis
        he
        > had
        > > already won victory? Or at least once he convinced Forrest that
        > Forrest should
        > > attack smith he had won? That if Smith can't make Forrest
        attack
        > him then its
        > > a loss because Forrest can do as he pleases. All Smith had to
        do
        > was
        > > prevent the total destruction of his army and he was a winner?
        Or
        > better yet, if
        > > he had surrendered his whole force that would have tied up
        Forrest
        > with
        > > paroles and such, all that paperwork takes time.
        > > --Nick
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In a message dated 5/1/2006 10:49:37 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
        > > melchizedek22@ writes:
        > >
        > > The point of my Brice Crossroads post was,that the unions mission
        > > was to keep Forrest off of Sherman's supply line.By being
        defeated
        > > at Brice Crossroads,the union had,completed their mission.
        > > By completeing their mission they managed to can a victory by
        > being
        > > defeated.
        > > Kind of like Milo Minderbinder bombing his own base,and
        > everybody
        > > gained,because everybody had a "Share" in M&M enterprises
        > >
        >
      • melchizedek22
        ... at the ... left. ... [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On ... raiding and ... Forrest ... keep ... time when ... about ... losing 500 ... victories ...
        Message 3 of 27 , May 2, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
          >
          > By that definition of "victory" I guess Custer had a smashing one
          at the
          > Little Big Horn. Heck, Reno even held the field while the Indians
          left.
          >
          > Tom
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of nickrelee@...
          > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:10 PM
          > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: victory&defeat
          >
          >
          >
          > I can understand wanting to keep Forrest occupied, keep him from
          raiding and
          > recruiting, etc. But the idea of just going out there to have
          Forrest
          > hammer you and claim it as a victory seems very odd. If you just
          keep
          > sending guys out to get hammered you run the risk of reaching a
          time when
          > you don't have the guys to stop Forrest from doing what he wants.
          >
          >
          >
          > To put it another way, Forrest had roughly 5000 men and Sturgis had
          about
          > 8000. If Forrest wins battles by inflicting 2600 casualties and
          losing 500
          > (which was the approximate total at Brice's) then how many such
          victories
          > can the Union win before they are unable to stop Forrest at all?
          >
          > --Nick
          >
          > They completed their mission,and the reality is,the Union could
          afford the 2600 casualties,more than the so called confederacy could
          afford the 500!
          Just as the Russians could afford insane losses more than the
          Germans in WW2
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 5/1/2006 1:23:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
          > DanGiallo@... writes:
          >
          > Perhaps, it's me, but I read that as meaning as long
          as
          > Forrest was kept occupied the mission was a sucess.--Dan
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          >
          >
          > American
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=American+civil+war&w1=American+civil+wa
          >
          r&w2=Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+w
          ar&w6=
          > United+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=PLhSD0RGhooh2tXWQrpA1w> civil war
          >
          > Civil
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Civil+war&w1=American+civil+war&w2=Civi
          >
          l+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+war&w6=Uni
          ted+st
          > ate+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=rEnWOoAzy2uXEjwEqbvKQw> war
          >
          > United
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=United+states&w1=American+civil+war&w2=
          >
          Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+war&w6
          =Unite
          > d+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=iLfklVD4PyvX0P-TPXBdyQ> states
          >
          >
          > Civil
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Civil+war+history&w1=American+civil+war
          >
          &w2=Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+wa
          r&w6=U
          > nited+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=5ubNl6PEd3y2Dmlp5shYpg> war
          history
          >
          > Of
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=Of+the+civil+war&w1=American+civil+war&
          >
          w2=Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+war
          &w6=Un
          > ited+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=xGDN2KXuQrheRYzvZoUVcQ> the civil
          war
          >
          > United
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
          t=ms&k=United+state+army&w1=American+civil+war
          >
          &w2=Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+wa
          r&w6=U
          > nited+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=yF_kwbpG9O-0SNRFfNB27g> state army
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          >
          > * Visit your group "civilwarwest
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest> " on the web.
          >
          >
          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
          subject=Unsubscribe>
          >
          >
          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
        • pvtjessett
          Gentlemen, Compliments I realize I m a little late on this debate but in my small mind the bottom line is that Forrest was turned loose on W.T. Shermans supply
          Message 4 of 27 , May 6, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Gentlemen, Compliments

            I realize I'm a little late on this debate but in my small mind the
            bottom line is that Forrest was turned loose on W.T. Shermans supply
            line several months late. By the time he was sent to do what he
            could as far as disruption of lines of comm. "Billy" Sherman had
            already decided to go it alone, "live off the country" so to speak.
            Grant had proved in the Vicksburg campaign this was possible and the
            lesson was well learned. Forrest had advocated this disruption
            earlier but was poo-pooed by Wheeler if not higher up at the time.
            Another fine move by the CSA Command in the west.
            Brice's Cross roads whether a distracting move on Forrest or not was
            a brillantly fought engagement and to this day still taught in any
            Military Academy worth its salt. West Point included.

            Paul

            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > So you're basically saying that by Smith marching out of Memphis
            he had
            > already won victory? Or at least once he convinced Forrest that
            Forrest should
            > attack smith he had won? That if Smith can't make Forrest attack
            him then its
            > a loss because Forrest can do as he pleases. All Smith had to do
            was
            > prevent the total destruction of his army and he was a winner?
            Or better yet, if
            > he had surrendered his whole force that would have tied up
            Forrest with
            > paroles and such, all that paperwork takes time.
            > --Nick
            >
            >
            >
            > In a message dated 5/1/2006 10:49:37 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
            > melchizedek22@... writes:
            >
            > The point of my Brice Crossroads post was,that the unions mission
            > was to keep Forrest off of Sherman's supply line.By being defeated
            > at Brice Crossroads,the union had,completed their mission.
            > By completeing their mission they managed to can a victory by
            being
            > defeated.
            > Kind of like Milo Minderbinder bombing his own base,and
            everybody
            > gained,because everybody had a "Share" in M&M enterprises
            >
          • pvtjessett
            Mr. Nick Compliments, Is it just me or do I detect a small note of sarcasism. No couldn t possibly be. Paul ... he had ... Forrest should ... him then its ...
            Message 5 of 27 , May 6, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Mr. Nick Compliments,

              Is it just me or do I detect a small note of sarcasism. No couldn't
              possibly be.

              Paul


              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > So you're basically saying that by Smith marching out of Memphis
              he had
              > already won victory? Or at least once he convinced Forrest that
              Forrest should
              > attack smith he had won? That if Smith can't make Forrest attack
              him then its
              > a loss because Forrest can do as he pleases. All Smith had to do
              was
              > prevent the total destruction of his army and he was a winner?
              Or better yet, if
              > he had surrendered his whole force that would have tied up
              Forrest with
              > paroles and such, all that paperwork takes time.
              > --Nick
              >
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 5/1/2006 10:49:37 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
              > melchizedek22@... writes:
              >
              > The point of my Brice Crossroads post was,that the unions mission
              > was to keep Forrest off of Sherman's supply line.By being defeated
              > at Brice Crossroads,the union had,completed their mission.
              > By completeing their mission they managed to can a victory by
              being
              > defeated.
              > Kind of like Milo Minderbinder bombing his own base,and
              everybody
              > gained,because everybody had a "Share" in M&M enterprises
              >
            • pvtjessett
              Tom Compliments, I detected a little sarcasism in Nicks post but Sir, I believe yours drips it. I wonder if Sitting Bull (or whomever the Chief was) looked at
              Message 6 of 27 , May 6, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Tom Compliments,

                I detected a little sarcasism in Nicks post but Sir, I believe yours
                drips it. I wonder if Sitting Bull (or whomever the Chief was)
                looked at it like that. I can hear him now---"Reno that rascal" got
                me!!

                Paul

                -- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
                >
                > By that definition of "victory" I guess Custer had a smashing one
                at the
                > Little Big Horn. Heck, Reno even held the field while the Indians
                left.
                >
                > Tom
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of nickrelee@...
                > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:10 PM
                > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: victory&defeat
                >
                >
                >
                > I can understand wanting to keep Forrest occupied, keep him from
                raiding and
                > recruiting, etc. But the idea of just going out there to have
                Forrest
                > hammer you and claim it as a victory seems very odd. If you just
                keep
                > sending guys out to get hammered you run the risk of reaching a
                time when
                > you don't have the guys to stop Forrest from doing what he wants.
                >
                >
                >
                > To put it another way, Forrest had roughly 5000 men and Sturgis
                had about
                > 8000. If Forrest wins battles by inflicting 2600 casualties and
                losing 500
                > (which was the approximate total at Brice's) then how many such
                victories
                > can the Union win before they are unable to stop Forrest at all?
                >
                > --Nick
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > In a message dated 5/1/2006 1:23:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
                > DanGiallo@... writes:
                >
                > Perhaps, it's me, but I read that as meaning as long
                as
                > Forrest was kept occupied the mission was a sucess.--Dan
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > SPONSORED LINKS
                >
                >
                > American
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                t=ms&k=American+civil+war&w1=American+civil+wa
                >
                r&w2=Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+
                war&w6=
                > United+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=PLhSD0RGhooh2tXWQrpA1w> civil
                war
                >
                > Civil
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                t=ms&k=Civil+war&w1=American+civil+war&w2=Civi
                >
                l+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+war&w6=Un
                ited+st
                > ate+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=rEnWOoAzy2uXEjwEqbvKQw> war
                >
                > United
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                t=ms&k=United+states&w1=American+civil+war&w2=
                >
                Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+war&w
                6=Unite
                > d+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=iLfklVD4PyvX0P-TPXBdyQ> states
                >
                >
                > Civil
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                t=ms&k=Civil+war+history&w1=American+civil+war
                >
                &w2=Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+w
                ar&w6=U
                > nited+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=5ubNl6PEd3y2Dmlp5shYpg> war
                history
                >
                > Of
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                t=ms&k=Of+the+civil+war&w1=American+civil+war&
                >
                w2=Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+wa
                r&w6=Un
                > ited+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=xGDN2KXuQrheRYzvZoUVcQ> the civil
                war
                >
                > United
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
                t=ms&k=United+state+army&w1=American+civil+war
                >
                &w2=Civil+war&w3=United+states&w4=Civil+war+history&w5=Of+the+civil+w
                ar&w6=U
                > nited+state+army&c=6&s=126&.sig=yF_kwbpG9O-0SNRFfNB27g> state
                army
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                >
                >
                > * Visit your group "civilwarwest
                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest> " on the web.
                >
                >
                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                subject=Unsubscribe>
                >
                >
                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > _____
                >
              • nickrelee@aol.com
                Just a bit of sarcasam. A wee tiny bit. --Nick
                Message 7 of 27 , May 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Just a bit of sarcasam.  A wee tiny bit.
                  --Nick
                • pvtjessett
                  Nick Compliments Again Sir, My Spidey senses felt that. LOF Paul
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Nick Compliments Again Sir,

                    My Spidey senses felt that.
                    LOF

                    Paul

                    -- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Just a bit of sarcasam. A wee tiny bit.
                    > --Nick
                    >
                  • Bob Huddleston
                    Sorry, Paul, it does not appear that there is much interest in the Army on Brice s Crossroads. Civil War staff rides are conducted on Antietam, Gettysburg, and
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 7, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Sorry, Paul, it does not appear that there is much interest in the Army on Brice's Crossroads.

                       

                      Civil War staff rides are conducted on Antietam,Gettysburg , and the Red River Campaign, but at present, there are no staff rides of Brice’s Crossroads. And the Crossroad’s site, http://www.bricescrossroads.com/main.htm does not mention any West Point study of the battle . In times past, the U.S.M.A has run staff rides of Chickamauga/Chattanooga (the US Army’s first staff ride, in 1906, was of Chickamauga ), Cedar Creek and various other battle fields in Virginia . Grabau’s _Ninety-Eight Days _ was originally n Army (but non-U.S.M.A.) staff ride.

                       

                      The Army’s Combat Studies  Institute at Leavenworth has prepared a number of staff rides < http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/csi.asp#staff > but none on Brice’s Crossroads.

                       

                      A search of the West Point web site finds no mention of either Forrest or Brice’s Cross Roads, nor does the West Point Atlas even mention Brice’s Crossroads.

                       

                      It would appear that the modern Army has no interest in either Bedford Forrest or Brice’s Cross Roads.

                      Take care,

                      Bob

                      Judy and Bob Huddleston
                      10643 Sperry Street
                      Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
                      303.451.6376  Huddleston.r@...

                      "Don't argue with someone who claims the earth is flat. You haven't given it a second thought, whereas he has spent 20 years thinking about and obsessing over why it is flat."

                       


                      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pvtjessett
                      Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 2:27 PM
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: victory&defeat

                      Gentlemen, Compliments

                       SNIP 
                      Brice's Cross roads whether a distracting move on Forrest or not was a brillantly fought engagement and to this day still taught in any Military Academy worth its salt. West Point included.

                      Paul

                    • nickrelee@aol.com
                      I have a bibliography that lists a 1991 publication of a Brice s Crossroads staff ride. Also there are probably military units that do a staff ride there (or
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 7, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I have a bibliography that lists a 1991 publication of a Brice's Crossroads staff ride.  Also there are probably military units that do a staff ride there (or any other battlefield) without leaving documents for us to see.  Maybe the Brice's visitor's center keeps records of groups that make a staff ride there.
                        --Nick
                      • Tom Mix
                        Test. Again. Sorry, Tom ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 7:53
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 12, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Test. Again.

                          Sorry,

                          Tom

                           

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Saultz
                          Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 7:53 PM
                          To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: victory&defeat

                           

                          ...LMAO......

                        • hank9174
                          ... Tom, an even better test is to send a message to mickey_mouse@microsoft.com or mickey_mouse@aol.com. Not only will the message go out but you ll receive a
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 12, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Test. Again.
                            >
                            > Sorry,
                            >

                            Tom,

                            an even better test is to send a message to mickey_mouse@...
                            or mickey_mouse@....

                            Not only will the message go out but you'll receive a return message
                            along the lines of 'the recipient cannot be found' confirming round-
                            trip message delivery...


                            HankC
                          • Jimmy Bell
                            worked again. Regards, Jimmy
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 12, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              worked again.

                              Regards,
                              Jimmy

                              --- hank9174 <clarkc@...> wrote:

                              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix"
                              > <tmix@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Test. Again.
                              > >
                              > > Sorry,
                              > >
                              >
                              > Tom,
                              >
                              > an even better test is to send a message to
                              > mickey_mouse@...
                              > or mickey_mouse@....
                              >
                              > Not only will the message go out but you'll receive
                              > a return message
                              > along the lines of 'the recipient cannot be found'
                              > confirming round-
                              > trip message delivery...
                              >
                              >
                              > HankC
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.