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The Colt

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  • banbruner@aol.com
    I ve just finished watching a very good civil war movie, although a real tear jerker. called The Colt. It portrayed two small cavalry units, one reb, one
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 1, 2005
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      I've just finished watching a very good civil war movie, although a real tear jerker. called  The Colt.  It portrayed two small cavalry units, one reb, one yank, maneuvering and fighting against one another  You got to know and love troops on either side you hated it when either one got killed or wounded.
       
      Maybe it's just me but it seems that movie directors try their best to keep the audience from identifying the weapons used.  In this movie I swear I saw a trooper with a rifle with a lever action that I took at the time as a Spencer, but then he treated it as a single shot and I was never able to get another good look at it.  Do directors purposely not show these weapons clearly to avoid issues of authenticity.
      Bill Bruner
    • keeno2@aol.com
      In a message dated 10/1/2005 10:37:16 PM Central Daylight Time, banbruner@aol.com writes: Maybe it s just me but it seems that movie directors try their best
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 1, 2005
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        In a message dated 10/1/2005 10:37:16 PM Central Daylight Time, banbruner@... writes:
        Maybe it's just me but it seems that movie directors try their best to keep the audience from identifying the weapons used.  In this movie I swear I saw a trooper with a rifle with a lever action that I took at the time as a Spencer, but then he treated it as a single shot and I was never able to get another good look at it.  Do directors purposely not show these weapons clearly to avoid issues of authenticity.
        Bill:
         
        I saw only the Sharps carbines the Unon Troopers had. Did you see a Henry or Spencer? I wasn't paying that much attention. I would imagine that, were I a director without a full cast of Sharps, I'd have the editor pay close attention to what was clearly identifiable.
         
        It did have its sad moments -- what my wife would call a "chick flick" -- but I found it to be a good investment in time.
        Ken
      • keeno2@aol.com
        In a message dated 10/1/2005 10:51:35 PM Central Daylight Time, keeno2@aol.com writes: saw only the Sharps carbines the Unon Troopers had. Did you see a Henry
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 1, 2005
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          In a message dated 10/1/2005 10:51:35 PM Central Daylight Time, keeno2@... writes:
          saw only the Sharps carbines the Unon Troopers had. Did you see a Henry or Spencer? I wasn't paying that much attention. I would imagine that, were I a director without a full cast of Sharps, I'd have the editor pay close attention to what was clearly identifiable.
          Got to learn to read more closely. You, of course, said you thought you saw a Spencer. My bad. Ken
        • lilsteve68@aol.com
          The ending wasn t the best butover all I enjoyed it . steven
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 1, 2005
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            The ending  wasn't the best butover all  I enjoyed it .
             
            steven
          • banbruner@aol.com
            In a message dated 10/2/2005 12:01:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, keeno2@aol.com writes: saw only the Sharps carbines the Unon Troopers had. Did you see a Henry
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 1, 2005
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              In a message dated 10/2/2005 12:01:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, keeno2@... writes:
              saw only the Sharps carbines the Unon Troopers had. Did you see a Henry or Spencer? I wasn't paying that much attention. I would imagine that, were I a director without a full cast of Sharps, I'd have the editor pay close attention to what was clearly identifiable.
              I was referring to the main character, I think his name waw Rabb was that a Sharps?  Did sharps have a lever?
              Bill Bruner
            • banbruner@aol.com
              The kids were allowed to name the colt , the girl named him Silky and the boy named him Shadow. His natural name would have been Star. For both his status
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 1, 2005
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                The kids were allowed to name the colt ,  the girl named him Silky and the boy named him Shadow.  His natural name would have been Star. For both his status and his markings.
                Bill Bruner
              • keeno2@aol.com
                In a message dated 10/1/2005 11:12:58 PM Central Daylight Time, banbruner@aol.com writes: I was referring to the main character, I think his name waw Rabb was
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 1, 2005
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                  In a message dated 10/1/2005 11:12:58 PM Central Daylight Time, banbruner@... writes:
                  I was referring to the main character, I think his name waw Rabb was that a Sharps?  Did sharps have a lever?
                  The Sharps has a lever to jack open the breechblock. With just a brief glance, the two rifles are similar. I thought Rabb was using a Sharps but, like I said, I had only a glance as well. Historically, the Sharps carbine began to be issued to the US Cavalry shortly before Gettysburg. As this was in the Widerness, it is likely (if not probable) that they'd have had Sharps. However, some units did get Spencers. In one particular unit, Wilder's Blue Ligntning Brigade, Wilder personally armed his mounted infantry with Spencers.
                  Ken
                • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
                  In a message dated 10/1/2005 11:37:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, banbruner@aol.com writes: In this movie I swear I saw a trooper with a rifle with a lever
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                    In a message dated 10/1/2005 11:37:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, banbruner@... writes:
                    In this movie I swear I saw a trooper with a rifle with a lever action that I took at the time as a Spencer, but then he treated it as a single shot and I was never able to get another good look at it.  Do directors purposely not show these weapons clearly to avoid issues of authenticity.
                    Bill Bruner

                    There was a single shot lever action rifle, but I do not believe it came into play until after the CW.   I'll check on this with J. Bilby who just has finished his book on CW lever action weapons.
                     
                    JEJ
                  • DPowell334@AOL.COM
                    In a message dated 10/2/2005 4:50:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com writes: There was a single shot lever action rifle, but I do not
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                      In a message dated 10/2/2005 4:50:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, GnrlJEJohnston@... writes:

                      There was a single shot lever action rifle, but I do not believe it came into play until after the CW.   I'll check on this with J. Bilby who just has finished his book on CW lever action weapons.
                       
                      Later Spencers had a cut-off that allowed the firer to load a single round, thus preserving the magazine for when it was really needed. This appeared at the end of the war, IIRC. Joe would be the best bet for that info.
                       
                      Dave Powell
                    • Rick Moody
                      ... There was a magazine cut off designed in 1865 to allow single shot firing but that model was a 50 caliber and not the standard 52 caliber used in the ACW.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                        --- DPowell334@... wrote:

                        >
                        > Later Spencers had a cut-off that allowed the firer
                        > to load a single round,
                        > thus preserving the magazine for when it was really
                        > needed. This appeared at
                        > the end of the war, IIRC. Joe would be the best bet
                        > for that info.
                        >
                        > Dave Powell

                        There was a magazine cut off designed in 1865 to allow
                        single shot firing but that model was a 50 caliber and
                        not the standard 52 caliber used in the ACW.
                        Thousands of CW era Spensers were modified by
                        Springfield with the new magazine adding to the
                        already confusing caliber issues associated with these
                        rifles. If there was anything different used during
                        the war Joe would be the only person to know.

                        Rick Moody
                        r_moody@...


                        When you arise in the morning,
                        give thanks for the morning light,
                        for your life and strength.
                        Give thanks for your food,
                        and the joy of living.

                        If you see no reason for giving thanks,
                        the fault lies with yourself.

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                      • olddude33@aol.com
                        There was a single shot lever action rifle, but I do not believe it came into play until after the CW. I ll check on this with J. Bilby who just has finished
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 3, 2005
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                          There was a single shot lever action rifle, but I do not believe it came into play until after the CW.  I'll check on this with J. Bilby who just has finished his book on CW lever action weapons.

                          JEJ


                          The Ballard was a single shot lever action .44 cal. carbine. (some carbine... the thing weighed 17 lbs.) It came into use in 1864 when the state of Kentucky purchased 4600 of 'em for the 13th and 45th Kentucky Volunteer Cavalry.

                          The Oldster
                        • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
                          In a message dated 10/2/2005 8:43:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, r_moody@yahoo.com writes: Later Spencers had a cut-off that allowed the firer ... There was
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 3, 2005
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                            In a message dated 10/2/2005 8:43:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, r_moody@... writes:
                            Later Spencers had a cut-off that allowed the firer
                            > to load a single round,
                            > thus preserving the magazine for when it was really
                            > needed. This appeared at
                            > the end of the war, IIRC. Joe would be the best bet
                            > for that info.

                            > Dave Powell

                            There was a magazine cut off designed in 1865 to allow
                            single shot firing but that model was a 50 caliber and
                            not the standard 52 caliber used in the ACW.
                            Thousands of CW era Spensers were modified by
                            Springfield with the new magazine adding to the
                            already confusing caliber issues associated with these
                            rifles.  If there was anything different used during
                            the war Joe would be the only person to know.
                            Well, here is what Joe had to say. 
                             
                            As for the Stabler cutoff, it was not used on guns used in the war -- it was a postwar addition to the Model 1865 carbine.
                             
                            Joe
                             
                            JEJ
                          • Michael McKinnon
                            IIRC (and sometimes I don t :-) ), the Sharps rifle was used. This was also a single shot, breech loaded, lever action rifle. Michael olddude33@aol.com wrote:
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 3, 2005
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                              IIRC (and sometimes I don't :-) ), the Sharps rifle was used.  This was also a single shot, breech loaded, lever action rifle.
                               
                              Michael

                              olddude33@... wrote:
                              There was a single shot lever action rifle, but I do not believe it came into play until after the CW.  I'll check on this with J. Bilby who just has finished his book on CW lever action weapons.

                              JEJ


                              The Ballard was a single shot lever action .44 cal. carbine. (some carbine... the thing weighed 17 lbs.) It came into use in 1864 when the state of Kentucky purchased 4600 of 'em for the 13th and 45th Kentucky Volunteer Cavalry.

                              The Oldster


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                            • John O'Connor
                              17 pounds? Wow, bigger than a Garand. How about 7 pounds? Jack ... From: Michael McKinnon To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                17 pounds?  Wow, bigger than a Garand.  How about 7 pounds?   
                                Jack
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 11:23 PM
                                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] The Colt

                                IIRC (and sometimes I don't :-) ), the Sharps rifle was used.  This was also a single shot, breech loaded, lever action rifle.
                                 
                                Michael

                                olddude33@... wrote:
                                There was a single shot lever action rifle, but I do not believe it came into play until after the CW.  I'll check on this with J. Bilby who just has finished his book on CW lever action weapons.

                                JEJ


                                The Ballard was a single shot lever action .44 cal. carbine. (some carbine... the thing weighed 17 lbs.) It came into use in 1864 when the state of Kentucky purchased 4600 of 'em for the 13th and 45th Kentucky Volunteer Cavalry.

                                The Oldster


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                              • Rick Moody
                                ... The original Ballards rifle was very heavy. 17 pounds might be high but it is very close for what was considered a Buffalo rifle. They were single shot
                                Message 15 of 16 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                  --- John O'Connor <hvonbork@...> wrote:

                                  > 17 pounds? Wow, bigger than a Garand. How about 7
                                  > pounds?
                                  > Jack

                                  The original Ballards rifle was very heavy. 17 pounds
                                  might be high but it is very close for what was
                                  considered a Buffalo rifle. They were single shot
                                  with rimfire cartriges. It is very hard to find an
                                  original CW era Ballard. After the company went broke
                                  production was taken over by someone else and they
                                  were much lighter. The 1870 era Ballard still weighed
                                  over 10 lbs.

                                  Rick

                                  Rick Moody
                                  r_moody@...


                                  When you arise in the morning,
                                  give thanks for the morning light,
                                  for your life and strength.
                                  Give thanks for your food,
                                  and the joy of living.

                                  If you see no reason for giving thanks,
                                  the fault lies with yourself.

                                  Tecumseh, Shawnee (The Southern People)




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                                • olddude33@aol.com
                                  17 pounds? Wow, bigger than a Garand. How about 7 pounds? Jack I ll buy that........ not the first time I found questionable info in Time-Life ...
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Oct 5, 2005
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                                    17 pounds?  Wow, bigger than a Garand.  How about 7 pounds?   
                                    Jack

                                    I'll buy that........ not the first time I found questionable info in "Time-Life"...
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