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Re: Ecelbarger's "Black Jack Logan"

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  • Tony Gunter
    ... Some authors absolutely nail certain portions of the campaign, but I haven t seen any author yet nail the entire campaign. The Battle of Raymond, however,
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 1, 2005
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      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@c...>
      wrote:
      > Just curious, Tony.
      >
      > Does anybody get it right? I mean, get any of the actions
      > surrounding Vicksburg right?

      Some authors absolutely nail certain portions of the campaign, but I
      haven't seen any author yet nail the entire campaign. The Battle of
      Raymond, however, is the most misunderstood and misinterpreted battle
      I have ever run across, hands down.

      I haven't yet run across an author who correctly attributes the first
      shots of the engagement to DeGolyer, nor an author who correctly
      pinpoints the start of the battle (everyone says 10 o'clock, but it
      was closer to noon), nor why the 23rd Indiana ended up alone on the
      other side of Fourteen Mile Creek, nor why the 20th Ohio ended up in
      the creek bed unsupported on either the right or left.

      These are pretty key points to understanding the battle.

      Ecelbarger is particularly bad, however. Logan's division
      (remember... the *entire* division) had time to deploy, stack arms,
      rest, redeploy, and break for lunch between the time that DeGolyer
      was called forward to disperse the "bait" that Gregg had planted on
      the bridge, and the time that McPherson ordered Logan to attack.
      Ecelbarger's take on this is:

      "3,000 Confederates caught Dennis' brigade by suprise... Hearing the
      artillery, but not knowing that Dennis' brigade was engaged, ...
      Smith's regiments deployed expecting to find the enemy well in front
      of them, closer to Raymond... Exiting the woods and entering a field
      in front of the creek, the Union infantry was clearly caught off
      guard... all was confusion as Logan's leading brigades struggled to
      deploy in the woods and open areas to return fire... Logan wheeled to
      Stevenson's men and spurred them [towards the battle] by
      bellowing 'Go in boys, and lift them out of that with cold steel.'"

      This makes it sound like Logan allowed Dennis to be attacked, then
      fed the remainder of this division into the battle brigade-by-
      brigade. That is the single most horrible misrepresentation of the
      battle imaginable.
    • Tony Gunter
      ... Well, if you re expecting a book heavy with information on Logan s ACW exploits, this book is a bit of a disappointment. Given that Logan s division
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 1, 2005
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        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
        > Well, that makes me feel better. It is a large book so I'm
        > glad it is an interesting read. I'm beginning if Raymond really
        > took place or was just a made up event on both sides.

        Well, if you're expecting a book heavy with information on Logan's ACW
        exploits, this book is a bit of a disappointment. Given that Logan's
        division carried the day at both Raymond and Champion Hill, I would
        have expected a detailed chapter on each. However, the entire
        Vicksburg campaign is lumped into a single chapter that concludes on
        May 5, 1864 with Logan writing to his wife about preparations for the
        Atlanta campaign.
      • Dave Smith
        From a Confederate command perspective - and especially during the May 1 thru May 18 perspective - not really. Dave ... surrounding ... any of ...
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 2, 2005
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          From a Confederate command perspective - and especially during the
          May 1 thru May 18 perspective - not really.

          Dave

          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@c...>
          wrote:
          > Just curious, Tony.
          >
          > Does anybody get it right? I mean, get any of the actions
          surrounding
          > Vicksburg right? It seems that no recently published author gets
          any of
          > this stuff right.
          >
          > Harry
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Tony Gunter
          > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:04 PM
          > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Ecelbarger's "Black Jack Logan"
          >
          > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
          > > Mine just arrived yesterday but I have not looked at Raymond
          yet. That
          > > does mot make me feel good about the investment ( cash or
          time ).
          >
          > Well, I flipped directly to the Raymond section to see another
          version
          > of the battle, and it was horrible. However, I moved back to the
          front
          > of the book, and it's fairly interesting with tidbits about
          Logan's
          > father, and his upbringing. So suffice it to say that Ecelbarger
          is a
          > biographer who slipped a little on the battlefield pieces (Raymond
          > analysis is completely wrong, and he somehow avoids even expending
          a
          > full paragraph on the battle of Jackson).
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Jfepperson@aol.com
          In a message dated 10/2/2005 5:22:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dmsmith001@yahoo.com writes: From a Confederate command perspective - and especially during
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 2, 2005
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            In a message dated 10/2/2005 5:22:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dmsmith001@... writes:
            From a Confederate command perspective - and especially during the
            May 1 thru May 18 perspective - not really.
            =====
            Well, I can think of *one* book that does a good job of it ;-)
             
            JFE
          • Jfepperson@aol.com
            In a message dated 10/2/2005 6:24:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, billgower@charter.net writes: I think that between the Bearss 3 volume set on the Vicksburg
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 2, 2005
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              In a message dated 10/2/2005 6:24:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, billgower@... writes:

              I think that between the Bearss 3 volume set on the Vicksburg Campaign and Warren Grabau’s Ninety-Eight Days, a person gets an excellent perspective from both sides on what occurred between May 1 and May 18.

              =====
              I understand both of those are good, but I was teasing Dave out his own
              contribution, "Compelled to Appear in Print..."
               
              JFE
            • Bill Gower
              I think that between the Bearss 3 volume set on the Vicksburg Campaign and Warren Grabau s Ninety-Eight Days, a person gets an excellent perspective from both
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 2, 2005
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                I think that between the Bearss 3 volume set on the Vicksburg Campaign and Warren Grabau’s Ninety-Eight Days, a person gets an excellent perspective from both sides on what occurred between May 1 and May 18.

                 

                Bill

                 

                 


                From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jfepperson@...
                Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 6:20 PM
                To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Ecelbarger's "Black Jack Logan"

                 

                In a message dated 10/2/2005 5:22:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dmsmith001@... writes:

                From a Confederate command perspective - and especially during the
                May 1 thru May 18 perspective - not really.

                =====

                Well, I can think of *one* book that does a good job of it ;-)

                 

                JFE

                 

              • Bill Gower
                Actually I really enjoyed that book too. _____ From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jfepperson@aol.com Sent:
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 2, 2005
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                  Actually I really enjoyed that book too.

                   


                  From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jfepperson@...
                  Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 6:27 PM
                  To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Ecelbarger's "Black Jack Logan"

                   

                  In a message dated 10/2/2005 6:24:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, billgower@... writes:

                  I think that between the Bearss 3 volume set on the Vicksburg Campaign and Warren Grabau’s Ninety-Eight Days, a person gets an excellent perspective from both sides on what occurred between May 1 and May 18.

                  =====

                  I understand both of those are good, but I was teasing Dave out his own

                  contribution, "Compelled to Appear in Print..."

                   

                  JFE

                   

                • Stanley Balsky
                  ... Don t be coy-Tell Stan __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 2, 2005
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                    --- Jfepperson@... wrote:

                    >
                    > In a message dated 10/2/2005 5:22:07 P.M. Eastern
                    > Standard Time,
                    > dmsmith001@... writes:
                    >
                    > >From a Confederate command perspective - and
                    > especially during the
                    > May 1 thru May 18 perspective - not really.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > =====
                    > Well, I can think of *one* book that does a good job
                    > of it ;-)
                    >
                    > JFE
                    >
                    Don't be coy-Tell
                    Stan



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