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Re: [civilwarwest] Newt Gingrichs Triology

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  • Steve Saultz
    Soory Rick.... Totally missread the posts....My sincere apologies!! No, dad-gummet, I have not read any.... Respectfully, Capt.McCracken......... Ricky
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                Soory Rick....  Totally missread the posts....My sincere apologies!!  No, dad-gummet, I have not read any....
             Respectfully, Capt.McCracken.........

      Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@...> wrote:


      Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
      books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
      retreat? Opinions?







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    • Ricky Washburn
      That is truly alright, you should read them if you get the oppurtunity. i will take the advice and look into the book about stones river. ...
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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        That is truly alright, you should read them if you get
        the oppurtunity. i will take the advice and look into
        the book about stones river.

        --- Steve Saultz <tristan4th@...> wrote:

        > Soory Rick.... Totally missread the
        > posts....My sincere apologies!! No, dad-gummet, I
        > have not read any....
        > Respectfully, Capt.McCracken.........
        >
        > Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
        > books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
        > retreat? Opinions?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • hank9174
        Part of the mission of the AotP was defensive - the defense of Washington. The western armies had no defense in their missions. The eastern US army leaders
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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          Part of the mission of the AotP was defensive - the defense of
          Washington. The western armies had no 'defense' in their missions.

          The eastern US army leaders were frequently looking over their
          shoulders to the safety of the nation's capital...


          HankC

          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
          > I do not recall where I read it but I did read once where
          Longstreet's
          > men commented on what they viewed as more "fierceness" in the West.
          > That resolve struck them as a bit more pronounced in the West.
          Right or
          > wrong that is what some thought after running up against the Western
          > armies.
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
          > On Behalf Of keeno2@a...
          > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:22 PM
          > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] partially OT - Army of the West vs.
          Army of
          > the East
          >
          >
          >
          > Bill:
          >
          >
          >
          > A most interesting examination ... how did the western armies differ
          > from the eastern? We should immediately acknowledge that the AotP
          had
          > its representation of western units -- most notably, the Iron
          Brigade,
          > among others.
          >
          >
          >
          > Next, we must agree that east and west did, in fact, have some
          cultural
          > disparity. The east was more settled, the west was new and rough--
          and
          > peopled by bold, aggresive personalities.
          >
          >
          >
          > However, between the two, and I suspect Grant picked up on it, was a
          > commonality: you will not sunder this nation. Loosely interpreted,
          the
          > Westerner was more likely to swing on you if he disagreed with your
          > premise. The Easterner would talk and discuss a bit more before he
          drew
          > a weapon.
          >
          >
          >
          > Upshot? There wasn't that much substantial difference between the
          > reasons either end of the country fought. It might have been
          earthier
          > from the western perspective, but in the end, it was the same as the
          > easterners.
          >
          >
          >
          > Ken
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
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          >
          > * Visit your group "civilwarwest
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        • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
          Greetings Hank, I will throw these facts in the equation. _AoNV also defended their Capital[ a real discussion on importance and outcome of capturing enemy
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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            Greetings Hank, I will throw these facts in the equation.
             
            _AoNV also defended their Capital[ a real discussion on importance and outcome of capturing enemy capital ] but that is an Eastern argument.
            _ Also their were western units in the AoNV 
            _I believe the biggest problem the Western Confederate forces faced was the lack of a concentrated defence of all forces early. e.g.  Bragg's numbers loss to Vicksburg and Cavalry spread. Interesting to debate the South giving up one of the river systems and the Union responce.
            --
            Respectfully,
            John Hooper
             
            -------------- Original message --------------

            Part of the mission of the AotP was defensive - the defense of
            Washington. The western armies had no 'defense' in their missions.

            The eastern US army leaders were frequently looking over their
            shoulders to the safety of the nation's capital...


            HankC

            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
            > I do not recall where I read it but I did read once where
            Longstreet's
            > men commented on what they viewed as more "fierceness" in the West.
            > That resolve struck them as a bit more pronounced in the West. 
            Right or
            > wrong that is what some thought after running up against the Western
            > armies. 
            >

            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of keeno2@a...
            > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:22 PM
            > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] partially OT - Army of the West vs.
            Army of
            > the East
            >

            >
            > Bill:
            >

            >
            > A most interesting examination ... how did the western armies differ
            > from the eastern? We should immediately acknowledge that the AotP
            had
            > its representation of western units -- most notably, the Iron
            Brigade,
            > among others.
            >

            >
            > Next, we must agree that east and west did, in fact, have some
            cultural
            > disparity. The east was more settled, the west was new and rough--
            and
            > peopled by bold, aggresive personalities.
            >

            >
            > However, between the two, and I suspect Grant picked up on it, was a
            > commonality: you will not sunder this nation. Loosely interpreted,
            the
            > Westerner was more likely to swing on you if he disagreed with your
            > premise. The Easterner would talk and discuss a bit more before he
            drew
            > a weapon.
            >

            >
            > Upshot? There wasn't that much substantial difference between the
            > reasons either end of the country fought. It might have been
            earthier
            > from the western perspective, but in the end, it was the same as the
            > easterners.
            >

            >
            > Ken
            >

            >
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            >
            >   _____


          • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
            In a message dated 9/6/2005 1:37:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tristan4th@yahoo.com writes: Ricky Washburn wrote: Have any of yall read the
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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              In a message dated 9/6/2005 1:37:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tristan4th@... writes:
              Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@...> wrote:


              Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
              books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
              retreat? Opinions?
              Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion group.  IIRC, this is a discussion group on the war within the Western Theater, not the Eastern Theater of operation.
               
              JEJ    East is least and West is Best
            • CAMPAIGN62@AOL.COM
              The stated mission of the AoP was to protect the Caoital. No one wanted to have it captured and burned as in the war of 1812. i submit that the reason they
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                The stated mission of the AoP was to protect the Caoital. No one wanted to
                have it captured and burned as in the war of 1812. i submit that the reason they
                were looking over their shoulders was because of the Radicals in Congress. If
                a General made a mistake, they were ready to pounce.
                This is why USG chose to establish his headquartes with the Army, rather than
                in DC. If the Capital was at Nashville, for instance, the Western Generals
                would have faced similar concerns.

                Best regards,

                JimH
              • James2044
                ... this is a ... Eastern ... If I may be indulged general, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/ is an excellent place to take this
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion group. IIRC,
                  this is a
                  > discussion group on the war within the Western Theater, not the
                  Eastern
                  > Theater of operation.
                  >
                  > JEJ East is least and West is Best

                  If I may be indulged general,

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/ is an excellent
                  place to take this discussion andy ou will be very welcome there.

                  Thank You sir.

                  James2044
                • Ricky Washburn
                  you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl let it
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                    you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                    group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                    the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                    let it rest.

                    --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:

                    > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com,
                    > GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion
                    > group. IIRC,
                    > this is a
                    > > discussion group on the war within the Western
                    > Theater, not the
                    > Eastern
                    > > Theater of operation.
                    > >
                    > > JEJ East is least and West is Best
                    >
                    > If I may be indulged general,
                    >
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/
                    > is an excellent
                    > place to take this discussion andy ou will be very
                    > welcome there.
                    >
                    > Thank You sir.
                    >
                    > James2044
                    >
                    >
                    >











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                  • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
                    Methinks with all the private wars going on involving Grant then the Newt Trilogy is very relevent to Western discussion. Newt and Forstchen involve the
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                      Methinks with all the private wars going on involving Grant then the Newt Trilogy is very relevent to Western discussion.
                       Newt and Forstchen involve the Western Union Army as a big key to final victory over Lee's Army.
                      It is apparent that the authors studied the Western theater.
                       
                      --
                      Respectfully,
                      John Hooper
                       
                      -------------- Original message --------------

                      you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                      group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                      the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                      let it rest.

                      --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:

                      > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com,
                      > GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                      > > 
                      > >
                      > > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion
                      > group.  IIRC,
                      > this  is a
                      > > discussion group on the war within the Western
                      > Theater, not the
                      > Eastern 
                      > > Theater of operation.
                      > > 
                      > > JEJ    East is least and West is  Best
                      >
                      > If I may be indulged general,
                      >
                      >
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/
                      > is an excellent
                      > place to take this discussion andy ou will be very
                      > welcome there.
                      >
                      > Thank You sir.
                      >
                      > James2044
                      >
                      >
                      >









                           
                                 
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                    • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
                      In a message dated 9/6/2005 9:53:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rwwiv@yahoo.com writes: you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong group, but i am
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                        In a message dated 9/6/2005 9:53:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rwwiv@... writes:
                        you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                        group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                        the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                        let it rest.
                        My post relating to talk on the Eastern theater, whether on books or not, I hope that it did not offend anyone.  My concern is the Western theater for I feel that it was crucial for the Union to win in that theater of operations, if the war was to be one.  Except for a few instances, the war in the East was mainly a war over the State of Virginia and Richmond.  But the CSA government could move from Richmond and it did.  In 1812, the US government did the same and fled the capitol.  But in the West, the CSA depended on so much of its existence from supplies and goods that the West provided.  Without that supply, the CSA government was doomed.  The majority of the CSA's rail transportation was in the West.  Without that system, the government was doomed.  What is ironic, the CSA had its best military leadership in the East and the Union had its best military leadership in the West.  Up to March 1864, that is one of the reasons that the Confederacy was so successful in the East and unsuccessful in the West.  In March, as you all know, is when Grant went East and then the Confederacy began losing in both theaters.  Rich McMurry covers this extremely well in his book, Two Great Rebel Armies.
                         
                        If I did offend anyone, I apologize.
                         
                        Your humble and obedient servant
                         
                        Gnrl J.E. Johnston
                      • Tom Mix
                        How does it portray the West? ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricky Washburn Sent: Tuesday, September
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                          How does it portray the West?

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Ricky Washburn
                          Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:52 PM
                          To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Newt Gingrichs Triology


                          you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                          group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                          the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                          let it rest.

                          --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:

                          > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com,
                          > GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion
                          > group. IIRC,
                          > this is a
                          > > discussion group on the war within the Western
                          > Theater, not the
                          > Eastern
                          > > Theater of operation.
                          > >
                          > > JEJ East is least and West is Best
                          >
                          > If I may be indulged general,
                          >
                          >
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/
                          > is an excellent
                          > place to take this discussion andy ou will be very
                          > welcome there.
                          >
                          > Thank You sir.
                          >
                          > James2044
                          >
                          >
                          >











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                        • Ricky Washburn
                          Sherman with two corps has complete domination over Johnston, Bragg, Forrest, Taylor. i think that might be a little two much, cause even though the wester CS
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 7, 2005
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                            Sherman with two corps has complete domination over
                            Johnston, Bragg, Forrest, Taylor. i think that might
                            be a little two much, cause even though the wester CS
                            army of Tenn. lost most the time they could still
                            fight, and deal casualties.

                            --- Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:

                            > How does it portray the West?
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                            > On Behalf Of Ricky Washburn
                            > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:52 PM
                            > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Newt Gingrichs
                            > Triology
                            >
                            >
                            > you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                            > group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                            > the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                            > let it rest.
                            >
                            > --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong
                            > discussion
                            > > group. IIRC,
                            > > this is a
                            > > > discussion group on the war within the Western
                            > > Theater, not the
                            > > Eastern
                            > > > Theater of operation.
                            > > >
                            > > > JEJ East is least and West is Best
                            > >
                            > > If I may be indulged general,
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/
                            > > is an excellent
                            > > place to take this discussion andy ou will be very
                            > > welcome there.
                            > >
                            > > Thank You sir.
                            > >
                            > > James2044
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            > effort.
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                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >











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                          • James2044
                            ... I don t think the series says they could not fight. The CSA is putting everything into the AoNV trying to win the war with a KO. The West becomes a
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 8, 2005
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                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Sherman with two corps has complete domination over
                              > Johnston, Bragg, Forrest, Taylor. i think that might
                              > be a little two much, cause even though the wester CS
                              > army of Tenn. lost most the time they could still
                              > fight, and deal casualties.
                              >

                              I don't think the series says they could not fight. The CSA is putting
                              everything into the AoNV trying to win the war with a KO. The West
                              becomes a holding operation as resources are shipped East by both
                              sides. I don't think that is out of line given the AoNV had won such a
                              victory.

                              James2044
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