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partially OT - Army of the West vs. Army of the East

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  • Bill Gower
    I am reading The Battles for Spotsylvania Court House and The Road to Yellow Tavern by Gordon Rhea. In the intro, he talks about Grant having to adjust his
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005

      I am reading “The Battles for Spotsylvania Court House and The Road to Yellow Tavern” by Gordon Rhea.  In the intro, he talks about Grant having to adjust his tactics somewhat to fit the style of the AOP.  I can see one big difference between the armies in the west vs. the east, the armies in the west were psychologically used to winning and did not feel inferior to the Rebel army.  How else was the army of the west different from the army in the east?  Certainly history of leadership was a big factor.  What else?

       

      Bill

       

    • keeno2@aol.com
      Bill: A most interesting examination ... how did the western armies differ from the eastern? We should immediately acknowledge that the AotP had its
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
        Bill:
         
        A most interesting examination ... how did the western armies differ from the eastern? We should immediately acknowledge that the AotP had its representation of western units -- most notably, the Iron Brigade, among others.
         
        Next, we must agree that east and west did, in fact, have some cultural disparity. The east was more settled, the west was new and rough--and peopled by bold, aggresive personalities.
         
        However, between the two, and I suspect Grant picked up on it, was a commonality: you will not sunder this nation. Loosely interpreted, the Westerner was more likely to swing on you if he disagreed with your premise. The Easterner would talk and discuss a bit more before he drew a weapon.
         
        Upshot? There wasn't that much substantial difference between the reasons either end of the country fought. It might have been earthier from the western perspective, but in the end, it was the same as the easterners.
         
        Ken
      • Ricky Washburn
        Have any of yall read the three altenrate history books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call retreat? Opinions?
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
          Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
          books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
          retreat? Opinions?







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        • Tom Mix
          I do not recall where I read it but I did read once where Longstreet s men commented on what they viewed as more fierceness in the West. That resolve struck
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005

            I do not recall where I read it but I did read once where Longstreet’s men commented on what they viewed as more “fierceness” in the West.  That resolve struck them as a bit more pronounced in the West.  Right or wrong that is what some thought after running up against the Western armies.  

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of keeno2@...
            Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:22 PM
            To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] partially OT - Army of the West vs. Army of the East

             

            Bill:

             

            A most interesting examination ... how did the western armies differ from the eastern? We should immediately acknowledge that the AotP had its representation of western units -- most notably, the Iron Brigade, among others.

             

            Next, we must agree that east and west did, in fact, have some cultural disparity. The east was more settled, the west was new and rough--and peopled by bold, aggresive personalities.

             

            However, between the two, and I suspect Grant picked up on it, was a commonality: you will not sunder this nation. Loosely interpreted, the Westerner was more likely to swing on you if he disagreed with your premise. The Easterner would talk and discuss a bit more before he drew a weapon.

             

            Upshot? There wasn't that much substantial difference between the reasons either end of the country fought. It might have been earthier from the western perspective, but in the end, it was the same as the easterners.

             

            Ken

             

          • Harry Smeltzer
            By the time Grant came east, I don t think the AotP felt in anyway inferior to the rebel army, apologies to Michael Adams. I think the rank and file did feel
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005

              By the time Grant came east, I don’t think the AotP felt in anyway inferior to the rebel army, apologies to Michael Adams.  I think the rank and file did feel that they were “on their own” against their enemy, and that they were not getting support form the powers that be.

               

              I think Rhea was a little too easy on Grant’s failures during the Wilderness Campaign (though he did stick his neck out and say that the AotP and 9th Corps lacked the firm, guiding hand necessary to defeat Lee OWTTE), but he is a little tougher on HUG in the Spotsy book.  But that’s OT, and MO.

               

              In addition to a different opponent, different and less favorable topography, and unfamiliar subordinates, Grant necessarily had to adjust for the concerns part and parcel to operating in such proximity to Washington and the administration.

               

              Harry

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gower
              Sent:
              Monday, September 05, 2005 3:55 PM
              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [civilwarwest] partially OT - Army of the West vs. Army of the East

               

              I am reading “The Battles for Spotsylvania Court House and The Road to Yellow Tavern” by Gordon Rhea.  In the intro, he talks about Grant having to adjust his tactics somewhat to fit the style of the AOP.  I can see one big difference between the armies in the west vs. the east, the armies in the west were psychologically used to winning and did not feel inferior to the Rebel army.  How else was the army of the west different from the army in the east?  Certainly history of leadership was a big factor.  What else?

               

              Bill

               

               

            • James2044
              ... Ricky, I started out wanting nothing to do with Gettysburg and disliking the idea of the book. One afternoon I picked it up in Borders, nothing else to
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@y...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
                > books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
                > retreat? Opinions?
                >

                Ricky, I started out wanting nothing to do with "Gettysburg" and
                disliking the idea of the book. One afternoon I picked it up in
                Borders, nothing else to look at, Knowing I would hate it and ready to
                pick it apart. LOVED IT! Brought it home and was totally hooked!
                Bought the others the 1st day and read them ASAP.

                Newt knows his history and much of the fun is seeing how he brings real
                events into "his history". The more you know, the more fun the books
                are and the more you see and understand.

                James2044
              • Ricky Washburn
                I have not yet finished the third book but i see how it is coming together or apart whichever way you want to see it. i am frustrated at a couple part but over
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
                  I have not yet finished the third book but i see how
                  it is coming together or apart whichever way you want
                  to see it. i am frustrated at a couple part but over
                  all i would definently recommend it.
                  My issues are with how quickly the yankees transport
                  people. And jeff davis coming down on Lee like he did.
                  James any thught on those?

                  --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:

                  > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Ricky Washburn
                  > <rwwiv@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
                  > > books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
                  > > retreat? Opinions?
                  > >
                  >
                  > Ricky, I started out wanting nothing to do with
                  > "Gettysburg" and
                  > disliking the idea of the book. One afternoon I
                  > picked it up in
                  > Borders, nothing else to look at, Knowing I would
                  > hate it and ready to
                  > pick it apart. LOVED IT! Brought it home and was
                  > totally hooked!
                  > Bought the others the 1st day and read them ASAP.
                  >
                  > Newt knows his history and much of the fun is seeing
                  > how he brings real
                  > events into "his history". The more you know, the
                  > more fun the books
                  > are and the more you see and understand.
                  >
                  > James2044
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >








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                • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
                  RICKY ,JAMES, Read all three ASAP. Agree that Union movements on river and wagon were grossly exagerated on speed. But I enjoyed all 3 books immensely. The
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
                    RICKY ,JAMES,
                       Read all three ASAP. Agree that Union movements on river and wagon were grossly exagerated on speed.  But I enjoyed all 3 books immensely. The 1st my favorite. Of course I grew up and live next to Stones River Battfld. And GGgrandfather fought at Richmond KY under Cleburne.
                       As for Lee, by July1863, I truly believe that he began to believe that the cause was becoming a slavery issue and less the wishes of Virginia and the Confederacy in his mind. I think that explains his assault via Picket and and disregarding Longstreet's advise. He placed the result with God.  To me [Gettisburg] in July of 1862 under all the same circumstances , Lee would not have attacked the heights and would have acted more like the Gingrich and Forstchen books   MO
                     
                         Not an alternate history book, but a new read is Bright Starry Banner  
                     about Sheridan, Polk , Bragg, Rosy and others at the battle of Stones River.

                    Respectfully,
                    John Hooper
                     
                    -------------- Original message --------------

                    I have not yet finished the third book but i see how
                    it is coming together or apart whichever way you want
                    to see it. i am frustrated at a couple part but over
                    all i would definently recommend it.
                    My issues are with how quickly the yankees transport
                    people. And jeff davis coming down on Lee like he did.
                    James any thught on those?

                    --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:

                    > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Ricky Washburn
                    > <rwwiv@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
                    > > books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
                    > > retreat? Opinions?
                    > >
                    >
                    > Ricky, I started out wanting nothing to do with
                    > "Gettysburg" and
                    > disliking the idea of the book.  One afternoon I
                    > picked it up in
                    > Borders, nothing else to look at, Knowing I would
                    > hate it and ready to
                    > pick it apart.  LOVED IT!  Brought it home and was
                    > totally hooked! 
                    > Bought the others the 1st day and read them ASAP.
                    >
                    > Newt knows his history and much of the fun is seeing
                    > how he brings real
                    > events into "his history".  The more you know, the
                    > more fun the books
                    > are and the more you see and understand.
                    >
                    > James2044
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >








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                  • josepharose
                    ... having to ... one big ... in the ... to the ... army in ... I also was looking at that book recently and, IIRC, Rhea stated that a major difference between
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Gower" <billgower@c...> wrote:
                      > I am reading "The Battles for Spotsylvania Court House and The Road to
                      > Yellow Tavern" by Gordon Rhea. In the intro, he talks about Grant
                      having to
                      > adjust his tactics somewhat to fit the style of the AOP. I can see
                      one big
                      > difference between the armies in the west vs. the east, the armies
                      in the
                      > west were psychologically used to winning and did not feel inferior
                      to the
                      > Rebel army. How else was the army of the west different from the
                      army in
                      > the east? Certainly history of leadership was a big factor. What else?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Bill


                      I also was looking at that book recently and, IIRC, Rhea stated that a
                      major difference between the two was the presence of geographical
                      obstacles in the East compared to the West.

                      I would submit that, aside from the Union control of the sea, the AotP
                      had a much more difficult route than the AotT [1862-3], which could
                      very effectively use the major rivers running north and south. The
                      AotC at this time may have had it worse than either of the two others;
                      the rivers ran across their direction of advance, the territory was
                      much rougher, and the waterways were much less advantageous--and often
                      were a positive hindrance--to the Union's forces.

                      Joseph
                    • Steve Saultz
                      Gettysburg Sear s? or Shaara s?? never call retreat Catton s? Excellent!! In fact, personal opinion, Both Gettysburgs are excellent as well. Of course
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
                        Gettysburg
                            Sear's? or Shaara's??

                        never call
                        retreat
                           Catton's?  Excellent!!
                            In fact, personal opinion, Both Gettysburgs are excellent as well. Of course Shaara's is alot like are late beloved Mr. Foote, "fiction" based on historic facts with non-fictual characters..
                           Mr. Catton's series are of the best, again personal opinion, he stays under the shade of northern trees somewhat, but covers alot of interesting things in both theaters...He is a very good "base" to start off from.
                             Your Humble Servant,
                             Capt.McCracken / Partisan
                        Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@...> wrote:


                        Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
                        books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
                        retreat? Opinions?







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                      • Steve Saultz
                        Soory Rick.... Totally missread the posts....My sincere apologies!! No, dad-gummet, I have not read any.... Respectfully, Capt.McCracken......... Ricky
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
                                    Soory Rick....  Totally missread the posts....My sincere apologies!!  No, dad-gummet, I have not read any....
                                 Respectfully, Capt.McCracken.........

                          Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@...> wrote:


                          Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
                          books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
                          retreat? Opinions?







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                        • Ricky Washburn
                          That is truly alright, you should read them if you get the oppurtunity. i will take the advice and look into the book about stones river. ...
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
                            That is truly alright, you should read them if you get
                            the oppurtunity. i will take the advice and look into
                            the book about stones river.

                            --- Steve Saultz <tristan4th@...> wrote:

                            > Soory Rick.... Totally missread the
                            > posts....My sincere apologies!! No, dad-gummet, I
                            > have not read any....
                            > Respectfully, Capt.McCracken.........
                            >
                            > Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
                            > books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
                            > retreat? Opinions?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                          • hank9174
                            Part of the mission of the AotP was defensive - the defense of Washington. The western armies had no defense in their missions. The eastern US army leaders
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                              Part of the mission of the AotP was defensive - the defense of
                              Washington. The western armies had no 'defense' in their missions.

                              The eastern US army leaders were frequently looking over their
                              shoulders to the safety of the nation's capital...


                              HankC

                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
                              > I do not recall where I read it but I did read once where
                              Longstreet's
                              > men commented on what they viewed as more "fierceness" in the West.
                              > That resolve struck them as a bit more pronounced in the West.
                              Right or
                              > wrong that is what some thought after running up against the Western
                              > armies.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                              > On Behalf Of keeno2@a...
                              > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:22 PM
                              > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] partially OT - Army of the West vs.
                              Army of
                              > the East
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Bill:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > A most interesting examination ... how did the western armies differ
                              > from the eastern? We should immediately acknowledge that the AotP
                              had
                              > its representation of western units -- most notably, the Iron
                              Brigade,
                              > among others.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Next, we must agree that east and west did, in fact, have some
                              cultural
                              > disparity. The east was more settled, the west was new and rough--
                              and
                              > peopled by bold, aggresive personalities.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > However, between the two, and I suspect Grant picked up on it, was a
                              > commonality: you will not sunder this nation. Loosely interpreted,
                              the
                              > Westerner was more likely to swing on you if he disagreed with your
                              > premise. The Easterner would talk and discuss a bit more before he
                              drew
                              > a weapon.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Upshot? There wasn't that much substantial difference between the
                              > reasons either end of the country fought. It might have been
                              earthier
                              > from the western perspective, but in the end, it was the same as the
                              > easterners.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Ken
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > * Visit your group "civilwarwest
                              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest> " on the web.
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                            • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
                              Greetings Hank, I will throw these facts in the equation. _AoNV also defended their Capital[ a real discussion on importance and outcome of capturing enemy
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                                Greetings Hank, I will throw these facts in the equation.
                                 
                                _AoNV also defended their Capital[ a real discussion on importance and outcome of capturing enemy capital ] but that is an Eastern argument.
                                _ Also their were western units in the AoNV 
                                _I believe the biggest problem the Western Confederate forces faced was the lack of a concentrated defence of all forces early. e.g.  Bragg's numbers loss to Vicksburg and Cavalry spread. Interesting to debate the South giving up one of the river systems and the Union responce.
                                --
                                Respectfully,
                                John Hooper
                                 
                                -------------- Original message --------------

                                Part of the mission of the AotP was defensive - the defense of
                                Washington. The western armies had no 'defense' in their missions.

                                The eastern US army leaders were frequently looking over their
                                shoulders to the safety of the nation's capital...


                                HankC

                                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
                                > I do not recall where I read it but I did read once where
                                Longstreet's
                                > men commented on what they viewed as more "fierceness" in the West.
                                > That resolve struck them as a bit more pronounced in the West. 
                                Right or
                                > wrong that is what some thought after running up against the Western
                                > armies. 
                                >

                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                                > On Behalf Of keeno2@a...
                                > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:22 PM
                                > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] partially OT - Army of the West vs.
                                Army of
                                > the East
                                >

                                >
                                > Bill:
                                >

                                >
                                > A most interesting examination ... how did the western armies differ
                                > from the eastern? We should immediately acknowledge that the AotP
                                had
                                > its representation of western units -- most notably, the Iron
                                Brigade,
                                > among others.
                                >

                                >
                                > Next, we must agree that east and west did, in fact, have some
                                cultural
                                > disparity. The east was more settled, the west was new and rough--
                                and
                                > peopled by bold, aggresive personalities.
                                >

                                >
                                > However, between the two, and I suspect Grant picked up on it, was a
                                > commonality: you will not sunder this nation. Loosely interpreted,
                                the
                                > Westerner was more likely to swing on you if he disagreed with your
                                > premise. The Easterner would talk and discuss a bit more before he
                                drew
                                > a weapon.
                                >

                                >
                                > Upshot? There wasn't that much substantial difference between the
                                > reasons either end of the country fought. It might have been
                                earthier
                                > from the western perspective, but in the end, it was the same as the
                                > easterners.
                                >

                                >
                                > Ken
                                >

                                >
                                >   _____ 
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                                >

                                >
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                              • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
                                In a message dated 9/6/2005 1:37:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tristan4th@yahoo.com writes: Ricky Washburn wrote: Have any of yall read the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                                  In a message dated 9/6/2005 1:37:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tristan4th@... writes:
                                  Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@...> wrote:


                                  Have any of yall read the three altenrate history
                                  books- Gettysburg, grant comes east, never call
                                  retreat? Opinions?
                                  Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion group.  IIRC, this is a discussion group on the war within the Western Theater, not the Eastern Theater of operation.
                                   
                                  JEJ    East is least and West is Best
                                • CAMPAIGN62@AOL.COM
                                  The stated mission of the AoP was to protect the Caoital. No one wanted to have it captured and burned as in the war of 1812. i submit that the reason they
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                                    The stated mission of the AoP was to protect the Caoital. No one wanted to
                                    have it captured and burned as in the war of 1812. i submit that the reason they
                                    were looking over their shoulders was because of the Radicals in Congress. If
                                    a General made a mistake, they were ready to pounce.
                                    This is why USG chose to establish his headquartes with the Army, rather than
                                    in DC. If the Capital was at Nashville, for instance, the Western Generals
                                    would have faced similar concerns.

                                    Best regards,

                                    JimH
                                  • James2044
                                    ... this is a ... Eastern ... If I may be indulged general, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/ is an excellent place to take this
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion group. IIRC,
                                      this is a
                                      > discussion group on the war within the Western Theater, not the
                                      Eastern
                                      > Theater of operation.
                                      >
                                      > JEJ East is least and West is Best

                                      If I may be indulged general,

                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/ is an excellent
                                      place to take this discussion andy ou will be very welcome there.

                                      Thank You sir.

                                      James2044
                                    • Ricky Washburn
                                      you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl let it
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                                        you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                                        group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                                        the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                                        let it rest.

                                        --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:

                                        > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion
                                        > group. IIRC,
                                        > this is a
                                        > > discussion group on the war within the Western
                                        > Theater, not the
                                        > Eastern
                                        > > Theater of operation.
                                        > >
                                        > > JEJ East is least and West is Best
                                        >
                                        > If I may be indulged general,
                                        >
                                        >
                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/
                                        > is an excellent
                                        > place to take this discussion andy ou will be very
                                        > welcome there.
                                        >
                                        > Thank You sir.
                                        >
                                        > James2044
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >











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                                      • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
                                        Methinks with all the private wars going on involving Grant then the Newt Trilogy is very relevent to Western discussion. Newt and Forstchen involve the
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                                          Methinks with all the private wars going on involving Grant then the Newt Trilogy is very relevent to Western discussion.
                                           Newt and Forstchen involve the Western Union Army as a big key to final victory over Lee's Army.
                                          It is apparent that the authors studied the Western theater.
                                           
                                          --
                                          Respectfully,
                                          John Hooper
                                           
                                          -------------- Original message --------------

                                          you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                                          group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                                          the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                                          let it rest.

                                          --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:

                                          > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com,
                                          > GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                                          > > 
                                          > >
                                          > > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion
                                          > group.  IIRC,
                                          > this  is a
                                          > > discussion group on the war within the Western
                                          > Theater, not the
                                          > Eastern 
                                          > > Theater of operation.
                                          > > 
                                          > > JEJ    East is least and West is  Best
                                          >
                                          > If I may be indulged general,
                                          >
                                          >
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/
                                          > is an excellent
                                          > place to take this discussion andy ou will be very
                                          > welcome there.
                                          >
                                          > Thank You sir.
                                          >
                                          > James2044
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >









                                               
                                                     
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                                        • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
                                          In a message dated 9/6/2005 9:53:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rwwiv@yahoo.com writes: you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong group, but i am
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                                            In a message dated 9/6/2005 9:53:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rwwiv@... writes:
                                            you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                                            group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                                            the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                                            let it rest.
                                            My post relating to talk on the Eastern theater, whether on books or not, I hope that it did not offend anyone.  My concern is the Western theater for I feel that it was crucial for the Union to win in that theater of operations, if the war was to be one.  Except for a few instances, the war in the East was mainly a war over the State of Virginia and Richmond.  But the CSA government could move from Richmond and it did.  In 1812, the US government did the same and fled the capitol.  But in the West, the CSA depended on so much of its existence from supplies and goods that the West provided.  Without that supply, the CSA government was doomed.  The majority of the CSA's rail transportation was in the West.  Without that system, the government was doomed.  What is ironic, the CSA had its best military leadership in the East and the Union had its best military leadership in the West.  Up to March 1864, that is one of the reasons that the Confederacy was so successful in the East and unsuccessful in the West.  In March, as you all know, is when Grant went East and then the Confederacy began losing in both theaters.  Rich McMurry covers this extremely well in his book, Two Great Rebel Armies.
                                             
                                            If I did offend anyone, I apologize.
                                             
                                            Your humble and obedient servant
                                             
                                            Gnrl J.E. Johnston
                                          • Tom Mix
                                            How does it portray the West? ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ricky Washburn Sent: Tuesday, September
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
                                              How does it portray the West?

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                                              On Behalf Of Ricky Washburn
                                              Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:52 PM
                                              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Newt Gingrichs Triology


                                              you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                                              group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                                              the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                                              let it rest.

                                              --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:

                                              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com,
                                              > GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong discussion
                                              > group. IIRC,
                                              > this is a
                                              > > discussion group on the war within the Western
                                              > Theater, not the
                                              > Eastern
                                              > > Theater of operation.
                                              > >
                                              > > JEJ East is least and West is Best
                                              >
                                              > If I may be indulged general,
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/
                                              > is an excellent
                                              > place to take this discussion andy ou will be very
                                              > welcome there.
                                              >
                                              > Thank You sir.
                                              >
                                              > James2044
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >











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                                            • Ricky Washburn
                                              Sherman with two corps has complete domination over Johnston, Bragg, Forrest, Taylor. i think that might be a little two much, cause even though the wester CS
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Sep 7, 2005
                                                Sherman with two corps has complete domination over
                                                Johnston, Bragg, Forrest, Taylor. i think that might
                                                be a little two much, cause even though the wester CS
                                                army of Tenn. lost most the time they could still
                                                fight, and deal casualties.

                                                --- Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:

                                                > How does it portray the West?
                                                >
                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                                > [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                                                > On Behalf Of Ricky Washburn
                                                > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:52 PM
                                                > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Newt Gingrichs
                                                > Triology
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > you are right genrl, i was posting in the wrong
                                                > group, but i am offended by the way the book portrys
                                                > the war in the west but unless that is okay i willl
                                                > let it rest.
                                                >
                                                > --- James2044 <james2044@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com,
                                                > > GnrlJEJohnston@a... wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Methinks that he sent this to the wrong
                                                > discussion
                                                > > group. IIRC,
                                                > > this is a
                                                > > > discussion group on the war within the Western
                                                > > Theater, not the
                                                > > Eastern
                                                > > > Theater of operation.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > JEJ East is least and West is Best
                                                > >
                                                > > If I may be indulged general,
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/recommended_ACW_reading/
                                                > > is an excellent
                                                > > place to take this discussion andy ou will be very
                                                > > welcome there.
                                                > >
                                                > > Thank You sir.
                                                > >
                                                > > James2044
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
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                                                > effort.
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                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >











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                                              • James2044
                                                ... I don t think the series says they could not fight. The CSA is putting everything into the AoNV trying to win the war with a KO. The West becomes a
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Sep 8, 2005
                                                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, Ricky Washburn <rwwiv@y...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Sherman with two corps has complete domination over
                                                  > Johnston, Bragg, Forrest, Taylor. i think that might
                                                  > be a little two much, cause even though the wester CS
                                                  > army of Tenn. lost most the time they could still
                                                  > fight, and deal casualties.
                                                  >

                                                  I don't think the series says they could not fight. The CSA is putting
                                                  everything into the AoNV trying to win the war with a KO. The West
                                                  becomes a holding operation as resources are shipped East by both
                                                  sides. I don't think that is out of line given the AoNV had won such a
                                                  victory.

                                                  James2044
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