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Re: Logistics

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  • aot1952
    A LOGISTICAL waste land! I hope your post was made in jest, because I can assure you I did not say nor mean to imply any of the beautiful land is a waste.
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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      A LOGISTICAL waste land! I hope your post was made in jest, because
      I can assure you I did not say nor mean to imply any of the
      beautiful land is a waste.
      Wakefield

      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, hooperjwboro@c... wrote:
      > Your remarks have merit, but we [all my compatriots] have never
      thought of our beautiful land as a waste.
      >
      > --
      > Respectfully,
      > John Hooper [Boro to Horseshoe Bend]
      >
      > -------------- Original message --------------
      > Very intresting stuff and I thank those who contributed
      information.
      > FWIW I have felt for a very long time that most people and
      historians
      > have never given adequate attention to just what a total
      > logistical 'black hole' the area south of Murfreesboro to the
      Coosa
      > River was to 19th century armies. Even today driving down the
      > interstates in this area I constantly marvel at how any large
      group of
      > soldiers where able to cross this mountainous waste land.
      > Regards-Wakefield
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      > Visit your group "civilwarwest" on the web.
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      Service.
    • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
      Wakefield, most certainly in jest. Just a wee bit of hurt feelings on the description. In seriousness, having traveled the route even before I-24 (Hwy 41 upand
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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        Wakefield, most certainly in jest. Just a wee bit of hurt feelings on the description.
         In seriousness, having traveled the route even before I-24 (Hwy 41 upand around MontEagle Mtn), I would hear your take on those logistics. Eg's   Defence, supply train(wagons) , infant., cavalry. From MBoro to the river. 
        --
        Respectfully,
        John Hooper
         
        -------------- Original message --------------
        A LOGISTICAL waste land! I hope your post was made in jest, because
        I can assure you I did not say nor mean to imply any of the
        beautiful land is a waste.
        Wakefield

        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, hooperjwboro@c... wrote:
        > Your remarks have merit, but we [all my compatriots] have never
        thought of our beautiful land as a waste.
        >
        > --
        > Respectfully,
        > John Hooper [Boro to Horseshoe Bend]
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        > Very intresting stuff and I thank those who contributed
        information.
        > FWIW I have felt for a very long time that most people and
        historians
        > have never given adequate attention to just what a total
        > logistical 'black hole' the area south of Murfreesboro to the
        Coosa
        > River was to 19th century armies. Even today driving down the
        > interstates in this area I constantly marvel at how any large
        group of
        > soldiers where able to cross this mountainous waste land.
        > Regards-Wakefield
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        >  Visit your group "civilwarwest" on the web.
        >  
        >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >  civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.


      • Bob Huddleston
        Your first starting place should be the appendix to the Luvaas, Army War College Guide to the Battle of Antietam. Charles R. Shrader, “Field Logistics in the
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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          Your first starting place should be the appendix to the Luvaas, Army War College Guide to the Battle of Antietam. Charles R. Shrader, “Field Logistics in the Civil War.”

           

          “Army Logistician,” the professional journal of US Army logistics  <http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/Back.html

          > has a number of articles on Civil War logistics, although most are quite
          short and simplistic. One good one is David Sabine, “The Role of Logistics in Confederate Defeat” (Jan-Feb 1982, pp. 12-16). Another is William Kyle, “The logistics of the Battle of Chickamauga,” (Sep-Oct 1986, pp. 26-30)

           

          Journal of Military History (and its various name changes) is available on line is you have access to JSTAR, but that usually means a good university library. Lots and lots of stuff in there!

           

          Henry Halleck devoted Chapter IV of his Military Art and Strategy to logistics. See http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7&c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc  for the text.

           

          Huston, James A. The Sinews of War: Army Logistics, 1775‑1953. is published by the Army as one of its historical volumes. Not on line, but worth digging out.

           

          USAMHIs reference bibliographies have excellent lists on practically any topic you want. The only limit is that the lists are of their holdings. Check http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usamhi/finding_aids.htm

           

          Take care,

          Bob

          Judy and Bob Huddleston
          10643 Sperry Street
          Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
          303.451.6376  huddleston.r@...

          “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.”
          “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire

           

        • Stanley Balsky
          Is this my computer or is in the transmission Stan ... http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7 ...
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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            Is this my computer or is in the transmission
            Stan

            --- Bob Huddleston <huddleston.r@...> wrote:

            > Your first starting place should be the appendix to
            > the Luvaas, Army War College Guide to the Battle of
            > Antietam. Charles R. Shrader, “Field Logistics in
            > the Civil War.”
            >
            >
            >
            > “Army Logistician,” the professional journal of
            > US Army logistics
            > <http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/Back.html > has a
            > number of articles on Civil War logistics, although
            > most are quite short and simplistic. One good one is
            > David Sabine, “The Role of Logistics in
            > Confederate Defeat” (Jan-Feb 1982, pp. 12-16).
            > Another is William Kyle, “The logistics of the
            > Battle of Chickamauga,” (Sep-Oct 1986, pp. 26-30)
            >
            >
            >
            > Journal of Military History (and its various name
            > changes) is available on line is you have access to
            > JSTAR, but that usually means a good university
            > library. Lots and lots of stuff in there!
            >
            >
            >
            > Henry Halleck devoted Chapter IV of his Military Art
            > and Strategy to logistics. See
            >
            http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7
            >
            <http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7&c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc>
            > &c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc for the text.
            >
            >
            >
            > Huston, James A. The Sinews of War: Army Logistics,
            > 1775‑1953. is published by the Army as one of its
            > historical volumes. Not on line, but worth digging
            > out.
            >
            >
            >
            > USAMHIs reference bibliographies have excellent
            > lists on practically any topic you want. The only
            > limit is that the lists are of their holdings. Check
            > http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usamhi/finding_aids.htm
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Take care,
            >
            > Bob
            >
            > Judy and Bob Huddleston
            > 10643 Sperry Street
            > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
            > 303.451.6376 huddleston.r@...
            >
            > “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.”
            > “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




            ____________________________________________________
            Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
            http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
          • Bob Huddleston
            Are you referring to the butchered Voltaire quote? I think it your computer. The quote should be “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.” “Common sense is
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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              Are you referring to the butchered Voltaire quote? I think it your computer. The quote should be
              “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.”
              “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire
               

              Take care,

              Bob

              Judy and Bob Huddleston
              10643 Sperry Street
              Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
              303.451.6376  huddleston.r@...

              “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.”
              “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire

               


              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stanley Balsky
              Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:41 PM
              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

              Is this my computer or is in the transmission
              Stan

              --- Bob Huddleston <huddleston.r@...> wrote:

              > Your first
              starting place should be the appendix to
              > the Luvaas, Army War College
              Guide to the Battle of
              > Antietam. Charles R. Shrader, “Field Logistics
              in
              > the Civil War.”
              >

              >
              > “Army
              Logistician,” the professional journal of
              > US Army logistics
              >
              <http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/Back.html
              > has a
              > number of articles on Civil War logistics, although
              >
              most are quite short and simplistic. One good one is
              > David Sabine,
              “The Role of Logistics in
              > Confederate Defeat” (Jan-Feb 1982, pp.
              12-16).
              > Another is William Kyle, “The logistics of the
              > Battle
              of Chickamauga,” (Sep-Oct 1986, pp. 26-30)
              >

              >
              > Journal of Military History (and its various name
              > changes) is
              available on line is you have access to
              > JSTAR, but that usually means a
              good university
              > library. Lots and lots of stuff in there!
              >

              >
              > Henry Halleck devoted Chapter IV of his
              Military Art
              > and Strategy to logistics. See
              >
              http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7
              >
              <http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7&c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc>
              >
              &c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc  for the text.
              >

              >
              > Huston, James A. The Sinews of War: Army
              Logistics,
              > 1775‑1953. is published by the Army as one of its
              >
              historical volumes. Not on line, but worth digging
              > out.
              >

              >
              > USAMHIs reference bibliographies have
              excellent
              > lists on practically any topic you want. The only
              >
              limit is that the lists are of their holdings. Check
              >
              href="http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usamhi/finding_aids.htm">http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usamhi/finding_aids.htm
              >
              >

              >
              > Take care,
              >
              >
              Bob
              >
              > Judy and Bob Huddleston
              > 10643 Sperry Street
              >
              Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
              > 303.451.6376 
              huddleston.r@...
              >
              > “Le sens communn’est pas si
              commun.”
              > “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire
              >
              >
              >

              >
              >



                         
              ____________________________________________________
              Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
              http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

            • profgrimsley
              One of the best introductions to the subject I have seen is an article that is now almost half a century old: John G. Moore, Mobility and Strategy in the
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 2, 2005
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                One of the best introductions to the subject I have seen is an article
                that is now almost half a century old:

                John G. Moore, "Mobility and Strategy in the Civil War" Military
                Affairs, Vol. 24, No. 2, Civil War Issue. (Summer, 1960), pp. 68-77.

                Stable URL:
                http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-3931%2819602
                2%2924%3A2%3C68%3AMASITC%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T

                Its documentation is deceptively simple, but it has some pretty shrewd
                calculations about the extent to which Civil War armies of a given
                size could forage within a given area and, particularly, the demands
                of supplying an army at increasing distances from a railhead.

                The issue is available online (thus the Stable URL). But--so far as I
                know-- it can only be accessed through
                J-STOR (short for Journal Storage), and you'll need permission to
                do so. However, many college libraries and even some secondary
                schools subscribe to it, and you can get to it via their on-site
                computers. You can find a list participating institutions here:

                http://www.jstor.org/about/participants_na.html

                It's not so much that this single article is worth the trouble of
                gaining access to J-STOR, but there's such an abundance of scholarship
                available once you do get access that it's worth looking into.

                As an alternative, the Moore article is reprinted in _Military
                Analysis of the Civil War_ (KTO Press, 1977).

                Mark
              • keeno2@aol.com
                Wow! Thankss. The name sounded familiar, and fortunately, I have it. Will now take the time to read it. Ken
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 2, 2005
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                  Wow! Thankss. The name sounded familiar, and fortunately, I have it.  Will now take the time to read it.
                  Ken
                • keeno2@aol.com
                  Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up on Moore s article. Given Grant s distaste for mathematics, I suspect he simply kept on his staff people who could reliably do
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 3, 2005
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                    Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up on Moore's article.
                     
                    Given Grant's distaste for mathematics, I suspect he simply kept on his staff people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His logistical "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what could not.
                     
                    Of course, when planning a move, he was not exactly starting from scratch. Where his armies were parked at any given moment were gathering points for supplies. To move any part of his army would be to move transportation to that part involved. To move all of his army would involve the gathering of extra wagons, horses, et al.
                     
                    As Moore pointed out, the speed of the march and the front it covered dictated the availability of foraged sustenance. The factors boggle. Bring in that genius Colonel. Tell him we're moving yesterday and I want the wherewithal to be ready the day before that.
                     
                    Thanks again.
                    Ken
                  • Harry Smeltzer
                    The old saying goes Amateurs study tactics - professionals study logistics. I think this is mostly because tactics lends itself more easily to sweeping,
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 3, 2005
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                      The old saying goes "Amateurs study tactics - professionals study
                      logistics." I think this is mostly because tactics lends itself more easily
                      to sweeping, romantic generalizations in relative vacuums. Logistics is
                      complicated and mind numbingly dull - most amateurs see it more often than
                      not as an "excuse" for the failure of tactics.

                      Harry

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of profgrimsley
                      Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:47 PM
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                      One of the best introductions to the subject I have seen is an article
                      that is now almost half a century old:

                      John G. Moore, "Mobility and Strategy in the Civil War" Military
                      Affairs, Vol. 24, No. 2, Civil War Issue. (Summer, 1960), pp. 68-77.

                      Stable URL:
                      http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-3931%2819602
                      2%2924%3A2%3C68%3AMASITC%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T

                      Its documentation is deceptively simple, but it has some pretty shrewd
                      calculations about the extent to which Civil War armies of a given
                      size could forage within a given area and, particularly, the demands
                      of supplying an army at increasing distances from a railhead.

                      The issue is available online (thus the Stable URL). But--so far as I
                      know-- it can only be accessed through
                      J-STOR (short for Journal Storage), and you'll need permission to
                      do so. However, many college libraries and even some secondary
                      schools subscribe to it, and you can get to it via their on-site
                      computers. You can find a list participating institutions here:

                      http://www.jstor.org/about/participants_na.html

                      It's not so much that this single article is worth the trouble of
                      gaining access to J-STOR, but there's such an abundance of scholarship
                      available once you do get access that it's worth looking into.

                      As an alternative, the Moore article is reprinted in _Military
                      Analysis of the Civil War_ (KTO Press, 1977).

                      Mark






                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Norris Darrall
                      ... , I suspect he simply kept on his staff ... could not. ... Grant had about five years experience (47-52) as a Regimental Quartermaster and wartime
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                        , I suspect he simply kept on his staff
                        > people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His logistical
                        > "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what
                        could not.
                        >
                        Grant had about five years experience (47-52) as a Regimental
                        Quartermaster and wartime experience during the Mexican War. He had
                        first hand knowledge of lower level logistics requirements and
                        hands-on methods. His grasp of this field contributed to his efforts
                        as Army Commander.
                      • keeno2@aol.com
                        Thanks for pitching in, Norris. It s a given that Grant had some certifiably solid experience. I guess what I didn t make clear was that Moore s article was
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                          Thanks for pitching in, Norris.
                           
                          It's a given that Grant had some certifiably solid experience. I guess what I didn't make clear was that Moore's article was frought with calculations that made my eyes cross, glaze, and eventually close. My intention was to suppose that he didn't personally make those calculations if, indeed, similar calculations were in use.
                           
                          Speed of the march and its front affect the ratio of human to animal food required for the movement. It is this sort of balance that I propose he intuitively knew.
                        • Tom Mix
                          Plus he was an excellent mathematician having done well enough to have been offered a teaching position at the Point upon his graduation, according some
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                            Plus he was an excellent mathematician having done well enough to have
                            been offered a teaching position at the Point upon his graduation,
                            according some objective Grant historians.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Norris Darrall
                            Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 9:09 AM
                            To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                            , I suspect he simply kept on his staff
                            > people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His
                            logistical
                            > "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what
                            could not.
                            >
                            Grant had about five years experience (47-52) as a Regimental
                            Quartermaster and wartime experience during the Mexican War. He had
                            first hand knowledge of lower level logistics requirements and
                            hands-on methods. His grasp of this field contributed to his efforts
                            as Army Commander.







                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • josepharose
                            ... his staff ... could not. As to Grant s mathematical/logistical skills, IIRC, he once ordered that a certain number of wagons carry a specified amount of
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                              > Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up on Moore's article.
                              >
                              > Given Grant's distaste for mathematics, I suspect he simply kept on
                              his staff
                              > people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His logistical
                              > "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what
                              could not.

                              As to Grant's mathematical/logistical skills, IIRC, he once ordered
                              that a certain number of wagons carry a specified amount of
                              ammunition. He had to be told that the weight of the ammo which he
                              requested was much too much for each wagonload, and that the number of
                              wagons would consequently have to be increased.

                              Joseph

                              > Of course, when planning a move, he was not exactly starting from
                              scratch.
                              > Where his armies were parked at any given moment were gathering
                              points for
                              > supplies. To move any part of his army would be to move
                              transportation to that part
                              > involved. To move all of his army would involve the gathering of extra
                              > wagons, horses, et al.
                              >
                              > As Moore pointed out, the speed of the march and the front it covered
                              > dictated the availability of foraged sustenance. The factors boggle.
                              Bring in that
                              > genius Colonel. Tell him we're moving yesterday and I want the
                              wherewithal to be
                              > ready the day before that.
                              >
                              > Thanks again.
                              > Ken
                            • Jfepperson@aol.com
                              Given Grant s distaste for mathematics ===== This is one of the more ludicrous things I have seen here. Mathematics was one of Grant s favorite (and best)
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                                Given Grant's distaste for mathematics
                                =====
                                This is one of the more ludicrous things I have seen here.  Mathematics
                                was one of Grant's favorite (and best) subjects at West Point.
                                 
                                JFE
                                 

                                James F. Epperson
                                http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/causes.html
                                http://members.aol.com/siege1864
                              • keeno2@aol.com
                                Mr. Epperson. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that statement. It may be even more ludicrous to think that Grant sat up late
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                                  Mr. Epperson. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that statement. It may be even more ludicrous to think that Grant sat up late every night to relish the mathematical intricacies of calculating logistical necessities.
                                • hank9174
                                  ... pick up ... sat up ... calculating logistical ... The tidbit on supply in the Moore article during a theoretical 1864 move on Gordonsville, Virginia is a
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                                    > Mr. Epperson. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to
                                    pick up
                                    > on that statement. It may be even more ludicrous to think that Grant
                                    sat up
                                    > late every night to relish the mathematical intricacies of
                                    calculating logistical
                                    > necessities.

                                    The tidbit on supply in the Moore article during a theoretical 1864
                                    move on Gordonsville, Virginia is a useful counterweight to Krick's
                                    assertion that the lack of such an 'obvious' move casts an aspersion on
                                    Grant's generalship.


                                    HankC
                                  • Tom Mix
                                    So? Kind of nit picky to me but what I have come to expect regarding any ANY comment on or about Grant. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                                      So?
                                      Kind of nit picky to me but what I have come to expect regarding any ANY
                                      comment on or about Grant.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                                      On Behalf Of josepharose
                                      Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 10:17 PM
                                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                                      > Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up on Moore's article.
                                      >
                                      > Given Grant's distaste for mathematics, I suspect he simply kept on
                                      his staff
                                      > people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His
                                      logistical
                                      > "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what
                                      could not.

                                      As to Grant's mathematical/logistical skills, IIRC, he once ordered
                                      that a certain number of wagons carry a specified amount of
                                      ammunition. He had to be told that the weight of the ammo which he
                                      requested was much too much for each wagonload, and that the number of
                                      wagons would consequently have to be increased.

                                      Joseph

                                      > Of course, when planning a move, he was not exactly starting from
                                      scratch.
                                      > Where his armies were parked at any given moment were gathering
                                      points for
                                      > supplies. To move any part of his army would be to move
                                      transportation to that part
                                      > involved. To move all of his army would involve the gathering of extra

                                      > wagons, horses, et al.
                                      >
                                      > As Moore pointed out, the speed of the march and the front it covered
                                      > dictated the availability of foraged sustenance. The factors boggle.
                                      Bring in that
                                      > genius Colonel. Tell him we're moving yesterday and I want the
                                      wherewithal to be
                                      > ready the day before that.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks again.
                                      > Ken






                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    • Tom Mix
                                      No doubt about it, Jim. Grant was a great mathematician. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                                        No doubt about it, Jim. Grant was a great mathematician.

                                         

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jfepperson@...
                                        Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 10:26 PM
                                        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                                         

                                         

                                        Given Grant's distaste for mathematics

                                        =====

                                        This is one of the more ludicrous things I have seen here.  Mathematics

                                        was one of Grant's favorite (and best) subjects at West Point.

                                         

                                        JFE

                                         


                                        James F. Epperson
                                        http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/causes.html
                                        http://members.aol.com/siege1864

                                         

                                      • banbruner@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 9/6/2005 11:50:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tmix@insightbb.com writes: No doubt about it, Jim. Grant was a great mathematician and a grim
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Sep 8, 2005
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                                          In a message dated 9/6/2005 11:50:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tmix@... writes:
                                          No doubt about it, Jim. Grant was a great mathematician
                                          and a grim mathematgician.
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