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Logistics

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  • keeno2@aol.com
    Keene wrote: I would love to learn more about the role of logistical constraints in civil war campaigns. Warren Grabua has a section in his book 98 Days
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 31, 2005
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      Keene wrote:
       
      "I would love to learn more about the role of logistical constraints in civil war campaigns.  
      Warren Grabua has a section in his book '98 Days' about the range and capacity of wagon
      trains.   I thought it was fascinating stuff.    I have also spent some time trying to grapple
      with the concepts of space, time and movement as it relates to roadway capacity, unit
      spacing on the march, etc.   I wish there were more resources to study on these subjects."
       
      Me to. Started a book by a former quartermaster in Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, etc. Had to quit. The detail made my hair hurt. And this was on the collection and allocation of supplies -- not particulary detailed in their delivery.
       
      Wagon trains were problematic and take a much different brain than I have. However, it all comes down to what they carry and how far they have to go. One wagonload of ammunition might require another two wagons carrying feed for the horses and food and camping equipment for the escort and drivers. The farther that wagon has to travel, the more wagons needed to cover provender for the train supporting it.
       
      And this example would be just a re-supply train. The train that travelled with the column would have the same difficulties plus officer accommodations, farriers, forges, sutlers, vets, and various other necessities. And the need to feed all those.
       
      Getting away from railroad or river supply lines involved mind-boggling detail, herds of horses to work and more herds to replace workers that broke down, and clement weather.
       
      There are snippets of information in many different books. I recall Stonewall Jackson issued an order limiting train size to a per-regiment figure. That probably helped with his speed and maneuverability. I've seen it in others, as well, but never exhaustively covered in a single place. How can you describe what seems to be impossible?
       
      One thing remains after I've tossed up my hands in total confusion: the commander who couldn't manage his supply didn't go very far.
       
      Just rambling. Keeno
    • amhistoryguy
      ... There is a bit in The American Civil War and The Origins of Modern Warfare, by Edward Hagerman. Hagerman includes such details as, from page 73,
      Message 2 of 23 , Aug 31, 2005
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        > I wish there were more resources to study on
        > these subjects."

        There is a bit in "The American Civil War and The Origins of Modern
        Warfare," by Edward Hagerman. Hagerman includes such details as,
        from page 73, "Ingalls, (Col. Rufus Ingalls of the QM Dept.) calculated
        at this time that with transportation and supply reforms, 'one wagon to
        every 50 men ought to carry 7 days subsistence, forage, ammunition,
        baggage, hospital stores, and everything else.' This translated into
        a standard of 20 wagons per 1,000 men. An army with total personnel
        of 140,000 (AoP) thus would need 2,800 wagons. But the Army of the
        Potomac did not cut down to Ingalls's prognosis of its logistical needs.
        It marched with 4,300 wagons, a standard of 30 wagons per 1,000 men,
        and with 21,628 mules, 8,889 horses, and 216 pack mules, a ratio of
        1 animal to 4 men."
        Lots of good logistical analysis in this book.

        In "Civil War Command and Strategy," by Archer Jones, page 128,
        Jones mentions, "A wagon drawn by a six mule team, on a macadamized
        road, could carry as much as 4,500 pounds at two-and-a-half miles per
        hour. On poorer roads...wagon loads averaged only 2,500 pounds, and
        at lower speeds. Even this was more efficient than a pack mule carrying
        200 pounds."
        Some really good information on logistics here too, but you will find it a
        bit spread out in the book. Worthwhile digging though, IMO.

        You are correct, it would be nice to have more specific resources on the
        subject. But, there is some stuff out there if a person is willing to devote
        some time to digging through a number of different sources for it.

        Regards, Dave Gorski
      • aot1952
        Very intresting stuff and I thank those who contributed information. FWIW I have felt for a very long time that most people and historians have never given
        Message 3 of 23 , Aug 31, 2005
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          Very intresting stuff and I thank those who contributed information.
          FWIW I have felt for a very long time that most people and historians
          have never given adequate attention to just what a total
          logistical 'black hole' the area south of Murfreesboro to the Coosa
          River was to 19th century armies. Even today driving down the
          interstates in this area I constantly marvel at how any large group of
          soldiers where able to cross this mountainous waste land.
          Regards-Wakefield
        • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
          Your remarks have merit, but we [all my compatriots] have never thought of our beautiful land as a waste. -- Respectfully, John Hooper [Boro to Horseshoe Bend]
          Message 4 of 23 , Aug 31, 2005
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            Your remarks have merit, but we [all my compatriots] have never thought of our beautiful land as a waste.
             
            --
            Respectfully,
            John Hooper [Boro to Horseshoe Bend] 
             
            -------------- Original message --------------
            Very intresting stuff and I thank those who contributed information.
            FWIW I have felt for a very long time that most people and historians
            have never given adequate attention to just what a total
            logistical 'black hole' the area south of Murfreesboro to the Coosa
            River was to 19th century armies. Even today driving down the
            interstates in this area I constantly marvel at how any large group of
            soldiers where able to cross this mountainous waste land.
            Regards-Wakefield


          • aot1952
            A LOGISTICAL waste land! I hope your post was made in jest, because I can assure you I did not say nor mean to imply any of the beautiful land is a waste.
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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              A LOGISTICAL waste land! I hope your post was made in jest, because
              I can assure you I did not say nor mean to imply any of the
              beautiful land is a waste.
              Wakefield

              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, hooperjwboro@c... wrote:
              > Your remarks have merit, but we [all my compatriots] have never
              thought of our beautiful land as a waste.
              >
              > --
              > Respectfully,
              > John Hooper [Boro to Horseshoe Bend]
              >
              > -------------- Original message --------------
              > Very intresting stuff and I thank those who contributed
              information.
              > FWIW I have felt for a very long time that most people and
              historians
              > have never given adequate attention to just what a total
              > logistical 'black hole' the area south of Murfreesboro to the
              Coosa
              > River was to 19th century armies. Even today driving down the
              > interstates in this area I constantly marvel at how any large
              group of
              > soldiers where able to cross this mountainous waste land.
              > Regards-Wakefield
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > Visit your group "civilwarwest" on the web.
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
            • hooperjwboro@comcast.net
              Wakefield, most certainly in jest. Just a wee bit of hurt feelings on the description. In seriousness, having traveled the route even before I-24 (Hwy 41 upand
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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                Wakefield, most certainly in jest. Just a wee bit of hurt feelings on the description.
                 In seriousness, having traveled the route even before I-24 (Hwy 41 upand around MontEagle Mtn), I would hear your take on those logistics. Eg's   Defence, supply train(wagons) , infant., cavalry. From MBoro to the river. 
                --
                Respectfully,
                John Hooper
                 
                -------------- Original message --------------
                A LOGISTICAL waste land! I hope your post was made in jest, because
                I can assure you I did not say nor mean to imply any of the
                beautiful land is a waste.
                Wakefield

                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, hooperjwboro@c... wrote:
                > Your remarks have merit, but we [all my compatriots] have never
                thought of our beautiful land as a waste.
                >
                > --
                > Respectfully,
                > John Hooper [Boro to Horseshoe Bend]
                >
                > -------------- Original message --------------
                > Very intresting stuff and I thank those who contributed
                information.
                > FWIW I have felt for a very long time that most people and
                historians
                > have never given adequate attention to just what a total
                > logistical 'black hole' the area south of Murfreesboro to the
                Coosa
                > River was to 19th century armies. Even today driving down the
                > interstates in this area I constantly marvel at how any large
                group of
                > soldiers where able to cross this mountainous waste land.
                > Regards-Wakefield
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >
                >  Visit your group "civilwarwest" on the web.
                >  
                >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >  civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >  
                >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.


              • Bob Huddleston
                Your first starting place should be the appendix to the Luvaas, Army War College Guide to the Battle of Antietam. Charles R. Shrader, “Field Logistics in the
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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                  Your first starting place should be the appendix to the Luvaas, Army War College Guide to the Battle of Antietam. Charles R. Shrader, “Field Logistics in the Civil War.”

                   

                  “Army Logistician,” the professional journal of US Army logistics  <http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/Back.html

                  > has a number of articles on Civil War logistics, although most are quite
                  short and simplistic. One good one is David Sabine, “The Role of Logistics in Confederate Defeat” (Jan-Feb 1982, pp. 12-16). Another is William Kyle, “The logistics of the Battle of Chickamauga,” (Sep-Oct 1986, pp. 26-30)

                   

                  Journal of Military History (and its various name changes) is available on line is you have access to JSTAR, but that usually means a good university library. Lots and lots of stuff in there!

                   

                  Henry Halleck devoted Chapter IV of his Military Art and Strategy to logistics. See http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7&c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc  for the text.

                   

                  Huston, James A. The Sinews of War: Army Logistics, 1775‑1953. is published by the Army as one of its historical volumes. Not on line, but worth digging out.

                   

                  USAMHIs reference bibliographies have excellent lists on practically any topic you want. The only limit is that the lists are of their holdings. Check http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usamhi/finding_aids.htm

                   

                  Take care,

                  Bob

                  Judy and Bob Huddleston
                  10643 Sperry Street
                  Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
                  303.451.6376  huddleston.r@...

                  “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.”
                  “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire

                   

                • Stanley Balsky
                  Is this my computer or is in the transmission Stan ... http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7 ...
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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                    Is this my computer or is in the transmission
                    Stan

                    --- Bob Huddleston <huddleston.r@...> wrote:

                    > Your first starting place should be the appendix to
                    > the Luvaas, Army War College Guide to the Battle of
                    > Antietam. Charles R. Shrader, “Field Logistics in
                    > the Civil War.”
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > “Army Logistician,” the professional journal of
                    > US Army logistics
                    > <http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/Back.html > has a
                    > number of articles on Civil War logistics, although
                    > most are quite short and simplistic. One good one is
                    > David Sabine, “The Role of Logistics in
                    > Confederate Defeat” (Jan-Feb 1982, pp. 12-16).
                    > Another is William Kyle, “The logistics of the
                    > Battle of Chickamauga,” (Sep-Oct 1986, pp. 26-30)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Journal of Military History (and its various name
                    > changes) is available on line is you have access to
                    > JSTAR, but that usually means a good university
                    > library. Lots and lots of stuff in there!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Henry Halleck devoted Chapter IV of his Military Art
                    > and Strategy to logistics. See
                    >
                    http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7
                    >
                    <http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7&c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc>
                    > &c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc for the text.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Huston, James A. The Sinews of War: Army Logistics,
                    > 1775‑1953. is published by the Army as one of its
                    > historical volumes. Not on line, but worth digging
                    > out.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > USAMHIs reference bibliographies have excellent
                    > lists on practically any topic you want. The only
                    > limit is that the lists are of their holdings. Check
                    > http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usamhi/finding_aids.htm
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Take care,
                    >
                    > Bob
                    >
                    > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                    > 10643 Sperry Street
                    > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                    > 303.451.6376 huddleston.r@...
                    >
                    > “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.”
                    > “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    ____________________________________________________
                    Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                    http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                  • Bob Huddleston
                    Are you referring to the butchered Voltaire quote? I think it your computer. The quote should be “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.” “Common sense is
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
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                      Are you referring to the butchered Voltaire quote? I think it your computer. The quote should be
                      “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.”
                      “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire
                       

                      Take care,

                      Bob

                      Judy and Bob Huddleston
                      10643 Sperry Street
                      Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
                      303.451.6376  huddleston.r@...

                      “Le sens communn’est pas si commun.”
                      “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire

                       


                      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stanley Balsky
                      Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:41 PM
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                      Is this my computer or is in the transmission
                      Stan

                      --- Bob Huddleston <huddleston.r@...> wrote:

                      > Your first
                      starting place should be the appendix to
                      > the Luvaas, Army War College
                      Guide to the Battle of
                      > Antietam. Charles R. Shrader, “Field Logistics
                      in
                      > the Civil War.”
                      >

                      >
                      > “Army
                      Logistician,” the professional journal of
                      > US Army logistics
                      >
                      <http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/Back.html
                      > has a
                      > number of articles on Civil War logistics, although
                      >
                      most are quite short and simplistic. One good one is
                      > David Sabine,
                      “The Role of Logistics in
                      > Confederate Defeat” (Jan-Feb 1982, pp.
                      12-16).
                      > Another is William Kyle, “The logistics of the
                      > Battle
                      of Chickamauga,” (Sep-Oct 1986, pp. 26-30)
                      >

                      >
                      > Journal of Military History (and its various name
                      > changes) is
                      available on line is you have access to
                      > JSTAR, but that usually means a
                      good university
                      > library. Lots and lots of stuff in there!
                      >

                      >
                      > Henry Halleck devoted Chapter IV of his
                      Military Art
                      > and Strategy to logistics. See
                      >
                      http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7
                      >
                      <http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=3bc84072168b07d7&c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc>
                      >
                      &c=moa&idno=AGN0334.0001.001&view=toc  for the text.
                      >

                      >
                      > Huston, James A. The Sinews of War: Army
                      Logistics,
                      > 1775‑1953. is published by the Army as one of its
                      >
                      historical volumes. Not on line, but worth digging
                      > out.
                      >

                      >
                      > USAMHIs reference bibliographies have
                      excellent
                      > lists on practically any topic you want. The only
                      >
                      limit is that the lists are of their holdings. Check
                      >
                      href="http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usamhi/finding_aids.htm">http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usamhi/finding_aids.htm
                      >
                      >

                      >
                      > Take care,
                      >
                      >
                      Bob
                      >
                      > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                      > 10643 Sperry Street
                      >
                      Northglenn, CO  80234-3612
                      > 303.451.6376 
                      huddleston.r@...
                      >
                      > “Le sens communn’est pas si
                      commun.”
                      > “Common sense is not so common.” Voltaire
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      >
                      >



                                 
                      ____________________________________________________
                      Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                      http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

                    • profgrimsley
                      One of the best introductions to the subject I have seen is an article that is now almost half a century old: John G. Moore, Mobility and Strategy in the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 2, 2005
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                        One of the best introductions to the subject I have seen is an article
                        that is now almost half a century old:

                        John G. Moore, "Mobility and Strategy in the Civil War" Military
                        Affairs, Vol. 24, No. 2, Civil War Issue. (Summer, 1960), pp. 68-77.

                        Stable URL:
                        http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-3931%2819602
                        2%2924%3A2%3C68%3AMASITC%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T

                        Its documentation is deceptively simple, but it has some pretty shrewd
                        calculations about the extent to which Civil War armies of a given
                        size could forage within a given area and, particularly, the demands
                        of supplying an army at increasing distances from a railhead.

                        The issue is available online (thus the Stable URL). But--so far as I
                        know-- it can only be accessed through
                        J-STOR (short for Journal Storage), and you'll need permission to
                        do so. However, many college libraries and even some secondary
                        schools subscribe to it, and you can get to it via their on-site
                        computers. You can find a list participating institutions here:

                        http://www.jstor.org/about/participants_na.html

                        It's not so much that this single article is worth the trouble of
                        gaining access to J-STOR, but there's such an abundance of scholarship
                        available once you do get access that it's worth looking into.

                        As an alternative, the Moore article is reprinted in _Military
                        Analysis of the Civil War_ (KTO Press, 1977).

                        Mark
                      • keeno2@aol.com
                        Wow! Thankss. The name sounded familiar, and fortunately, I have it. Will now take the time to read it. Ken
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 2, 2005
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                          Wow! Thankss. The name sounded familiar, and fortunately, I have it.  Will now take the time to read it.
                          Ken
                        • keeno2@aol.com
                          Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up on Moore s article. Given Grant s distaste for mathematics, I suspect he simply kept on his staff people who could reliably do
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 3, 2005
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                            Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up on Moore's article.
                             
                            Given Grant's distaste for mathematics, I suspect he simply kept on his staff people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His logistical "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what could not.
                             
                            Of course, when planning a move, he was not exactly starting from scratch. Where his armies were parked at any given moment were gathering points for supplies. To move any part of his army would be to move transportation to that part involved. To move all of his army would involve the gathering of extra wagons, horses, et al.
                             
                            As Moore pointed out, the speed of the march and the front it covered dictated the availability of foraged sustenance. The factors boggle. Bring in that genius Colonel. Tell him we're moving yesterday and I want the wherewithal to be ready the day before that.
                             
                            Thanks again.
                            Ken
                          • Harry Smeltzer
                            The old saying goes Amateurs study tactics - professionals study logistics. I think this is mostly because tactics lends itself more easily to sweeping,
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 3, 2005
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                              The old saying goes "Amateurs study tactics - professionals study
                              logistics." I think this is mostly because tactics lends itself more easily
                              to sweeping, romantic generalizations in relative vacuums. Logistics is
                              complicated and mind numbingly dull - most amateurs see it more often than
                              not as an "excuse" for the failure of tactics.

                              Harry

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of profgrimsley
                              Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:47 PM
                              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                              One of the best introductions to the subject I have seen is an article
                              that is now almost half a century old:

                              John G. Moore, "Mobility and Strategy in the Civil War" Military
                              Affairs, Vol. 24, No. 2, Civil War Issue. (Summer, 1960), pp. 68-77.

                              Stable URL:
                              http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-3931%2819602
                              2%2924%3A2%3C68%3AMASITC%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T

                              Its documentation is deceptively simple, but it has some pretty shrewd
                              calculations about the extent to which Civil War armies of a given
                              size could forage within a given area and, particularly, the demands
                              of supplying an army at increasing distances from a railhead.

                              The issue is available online (thus the Stable URL). But--so far as I
                              know-- it can only be accessed through
                              J-STOR (short for Journal Storage), and you'll need permission to
                              do so. However, many college libraries and even some secondary
                              schools subscribe to it, and you can get to it via their on-site
                              computers. You can find a list participating institutions here:

                              http://www.jstor.org/about/participants_na.html

                              It's not so much that this single article is worth the trouble of
                              gaining access to J-STOR, but there's such an abundance of scholarship
                              available once you do get access that it's worth looking into.

                              As an alternative, the Moore article is reprinted in _Military
                              Analysis of the Civil War_ (KTO Press, 1977).

                              Mark






                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • Norris Darrall
                              ... , I suspect he simply kept on his staff ... could not. ... Grant had about five years experience (47-52) as a Regimental Quartermaster and wartime
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                                , I suspect he simply kept on his staff
                                > people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His logistical
                                > "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what
                                could not.
                                >
                                Grant had about five years experience (47-52) as a Regimental
                                Quartermaster and wartime experience during the Mexican War. He had
                                first hand knowledge of lower level logistics requirements and
                                hands-on methods. His grasp of this field contributed to his efforts
                                as Army Commander.
                              • keeno2@aol.com
                                Thanks for pitching in, Norris. It s a given that Grant had some certifiably solid experience. I guess what I didn t make clear was that Moore s article was
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                                  Thanks for pitching in, Norris.
                                   
                                  It's a given that Grant had some certifiably solid experience. I guess what I didn't make clear was that Moore's article was frought with calculations that made my eyes cross, glaze, and eventually close. My intention was to suppose that he didn't personally make those calculations if, indeed, similar calculations were in use.
                                   
                                  Speed of the march and its front affect the ratio of human to animal food required for the movement. It is this sort of balance that I propose he intuitively knew.
                                • Tom Mix
                                  Plus he was an excellent mathematician having done well enough to have been offered a teaching position at the Point upon his graduation, according some
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                                    Plus he was an excellent mathematician having done well enough to have
                                    been offered a teaching position at the Point upon his graduation,
                                    according some objective Grant historians.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Norris Darrall
                                    Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 9:09 AM
                                    To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                                    , I suspect he simply kept on his staff
                                    > people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His
                                    logistical
                                    > "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what
                                    could not.
                                    >
                                    Grant had about five years experience (47-52) as a Regimental
                                    Quartermaster and wartime experience during the Mexican War. He had
                                    first hand knowledge of lower level logistics requirements and
                                    hands-on methods. His grasp of this field contributed to his efforts
                                    as Army Commander.







                                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  • josepharose
                                    ... his staff ... could not. As to Grant s mathematical/logistical skills, IIRC, he once ordered that a certain number of wagons carry a specified amount of
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                                      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                                      > Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up on Moore's article.
                                      >
                                      > Given Grant's distaste for mathematics, I suspect he simply kept on
                                      his staff
                                      > people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His logistical
                                      > "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what
                                      could not.

                                      As to Grant's mathematical/logistical skills, IIRC, he once ordered
                                      that a certain number of wagons carry a specified amount of
                                      ammunition. He had to be told that the weight of the ammo which he
                                      requested was much too much for each wagonload, and that the number of
                                      wagons would consequently have to be increased.

                                      Joseph

                                      > Of course, when planning a move, he was not exactly starting from
                                      scratch.
                                      > Where his armies were parked at any given moment were gathering
                                      points for
                                      > supplies. To move any part of his army would be to move
                                      transportation to that part
                                      > involved. To move all of his army would involve the gathering of extra
                                      > wagons, horses, et al.
                                      >
                                      > As Moore pointed out, the speed of the march and the front it covered
                                      > dictated the availability of foraged sustenance. The factors boggle.
                                      Bring in that
                                      > genius Colonel. Tell him we're moving yesterday and I want the
                                      wherewithal to be
                                      > ready the day before that.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks again.
                                      > Ken
                                    • Jfepperson@aol.com
                                      Given Grant s distaste for mathematics ===== This is one of the more ludicrous things I have seen here. Mathematics was one of Grant s favorite (and best)
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                                        Given Grant's distaste for mathematics
                                        =====
                                        This is one of the more ludicrous things I have seen here.  Mathematics
                                        was one of Grant's favorite (and best) subjects at West Point.
                                         
                                        JFE
                                         

                                        James F. Epperson
                                        http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/causes.html
                                        http://members.aol.com/siege1864
                                      • keeno2@aol.com
                                        Mr. Epperson. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that statement. It may be even more ludicrous to think that Grant sat up late
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Sep 5, 2005
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                                          Mr. Epperson. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to pick up on that statement. It may be even more ludicrous to think that Grant sat up late every night to relish the mathematical intricacies of calculating logistical necessities.
                                        • hank9174
                                          ... pick up ... sat up ... calculating logistical ... The tidbit on supply in the Moore article during a theoretical 1864 move on Gordonsville, Virginia is a
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                                            > Mr. Epperson. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to
                                            pick up
                                            > on that statement. It may be even more ludicrous to think that Grant
                                            sat up
                                            > late every night to relish the mathematical intricacies of
                                            calculating logistical
                                            > necessities.

                                            The tidbit on supply in the Moore article during a theoretical 1864
                                            move on Gordonsville, Virginia is a useful counterweight to Krick's
                                            assertion that the lack of such an 'obvious' move casts an aspersion on
                                            Grant's generalship.


                                            HankC
                                          • Tom Mix
                                            So? Kind of nit picky to me but what I have come to expect regarding any ANY comment on or about Grant. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                                              So?
                                              Kind of nit picky to me but what I have come to expect regarding any ANY
                                              comment on or about Grant.

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                                              On Behalf Of josepharose
                                              Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 10:17 PM
                                              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, keeno2@a... wrote:
                                              > Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up on Moore's article.
                                              >
                                              > Given Grant's distaste for mathematics, I suspect he simply kept on
                                              his staff
                                              > people who could reliably do those calculations for him. His
                                              logistical
                                              > "talent" was likely in intuitively knowing what could work and what
                                              could not.

                                              As to Grant's mathematical/logistical skills, IIRC, he once ordered
                                              that a certain number of wagons carry a specified amount of
                                              ammunition. He had to be told that the weight of the ammo which he
                                              requested was much too much for each wagonload, and that the number of
                                              wagons would consequently have to be increased.

                                              Joseph

                                              > Of course, when planning a move, he was not exactly starting from
                                              scratch.
                                              > Where his armies were parked at any given moment were gathering
                                              points for
                                              > supplies. To move any part of his army would be to move
                                              transportation to that part
                                              > involved. To move all of his army would involve the gathering of extra

                                              > wagons, horses, et al.
                                              >
                                              > As Moore pointed out, the speed of the march and the front it covered
                                              > dictated the availability of foraged sustenance. The factors boggle.
                                              Bring in that
                                              > genius Colonel. Tell him we're moving yesterday and I want the
                                              wherewithal to be
                                              > ready the day before that.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks again.
                                              > Ken






                                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            • Tom Mix
                                              No doubt about it, Jim. Grant was a great mathematician. ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Sep 6, 2005
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                                                No doubt about it, Jim. Grant was a great mathematician.

                                                 

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jfepperson@...
                                                Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 10:26 PM
                                                To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Logistics

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Given Grant's distaste for mathematics

                                                =====

                                                This is one of the more ludicrous things I have seen here.  Mathematics

                                                was one of Grant's favorite (and best) subjects at West Point.

                                                 

                                                JFE

                                                 


                                                James F. Epperson
                                                http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/causes.html
                                                http://members.aol.com/siege1864

                                                 

                                              • banbruner@aol.com
                                                In a message dated 9/6/2005 11:50:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tmix@insightbb.com writes: No doubt about it, Jim. Grant was a great mathematician and a grim
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Sep 8, 2005
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                                                  In a message dated 9/6/2005 11:50:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tmix@... writes:
                                                  No doubt about it, Jim. Grant was a great mathematician
                                                  and a grim mathematgician.
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