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RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic

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  • Tom Mix
    Gen. Joe, Any more info on the upcoming book you mentioned? Sounds interesting. Tom ... From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 27, 2005
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      Gen. Joe,

      Any more info on the upcoming book you mentioned? Sounds interesting.

      Tom

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of GnrlJEJohnston@...
      Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:14 PM
      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic

       

      Well, we have torn Grant, Sherman, Thomas, Rosecrans, and McPherson apart.  It seems we keep on bashing Union commanders and finding all their faults in one way or another.  We also, at the same time, have looked at their good points.  Since my s/n is of a Confederate leader, I feel that we Rebs have been discriminated upon.  May I suggest that we change the topic and look at the following Confederate leaders.

       

      Alexander Peter Stewart

      Wirt Adams

      Henry Morgan

      Cheatham

      Forrest  (especially the battle of Brice's Crossroads)

       

      Also, my good friend Joe Bilby is coming out with a new book with a look at how repeating rifles, such as the Spencer, Henry, and Colt were utilized in battles in the Western theater, and how effective they were.  This could be another topic.

       

      But then again, as our good friend Wakefield would say, "and then I could be wrong.)  

       

      JEJ

       

    • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/27/2005 6:34:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmix@insightbb.com writes: Gen. Joe, Any more info on the upcoming book you mentioned?
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 27, 2005
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        In a message dated 4/27/2005 6:34:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tmix@... writes:

        Gen. Joe,

        Any more info on the upcoming book you mentioned? Sounds interesting.

        Tom

        I believe that Joe will be taking the first galleys to the publisher around the latter part of June.  If you do not have one of his books in your library, you should get one.  He is one of the foremost experts on civil war weaponry that we have.
         
        JEJ
         
         
        civilwartalk.com/cwt_alt/resources/articles/guns.htm
         
        www.cwoodcock.com/forum/db_ TalkToMeV2.cgi?forum_name=newjboard
      • SDE80@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/27/2005 6:29:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmix@insightbb.com writes: Can you give a little detail as to what is in OR38(5);892 for those
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 27, 2005
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          In a message dated 4/27/2005 6:29:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmix@... writes:

          Can you give a little detail as to what is in OR38(5);892 for those of us with out access?

           
          Hope the link works.   In this communication to James Seddon dated July 19, 1864, Hood raises the issue of who should command his old corps now that he commands the AOT.  He does not deem the major generals with the corps at that time (Carter Stevenson, Thomas C. Hindman [who was sick] and Henry D. Clayton [in division command less than 3 weeks, having replaced A. P. Stewart]) to be "suitable," and "it was Hardee's opinion that Cheatham was the best man at my disposal, my corps commanders (Stewart was the only other one) concurring".   
           
          Hardee, of all people, Cleburne's sponser, the person who was, in the words of St. John R. Liddell, "very partial" to Cleburne, is saying Frank Cheatham was the best man at Hood's disposal to command Hood's old corps.   Not Cleburne.  
           
          No one here thinks Cleburne was a slouch.  Therefore, the original premise, that Cheatham is underrated, has some support from the men at the very top of the AOT.
           
          Sam Elliott
        • josepharose
          ... those of ... Mr. Mix: Cornell University s MoA Journal Collection offers great access: http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/moa/moa_browse.html Look toward the
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 27, 2005
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            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
            > Sam,
            >
            > Can you give a little detail as to what is in OR38(5);892 for
            those of
            > us with out access?
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Tom


            Mr. Mix:

            Cornell University's MoA Journal Collection offers great access:
            http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/moa/moa_browse.html

            Look toward the bottom of the page, but they have many mags and the
            Naval ORs, as well.

            Having a CD of the ORs is much better, but the Making of America
            site is a nice option for many.

            Joseph
          • Tom Mix
            Thanks, Sam, that sums it up very nicely. Cheatham is only under rated but under published as well. I don t know of any biography of him, do you? Tom ...
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 27, 2005
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              Thanks, Sam, that sums it up very nicely.  Cheatham is only under rated but under published as well. I don’t know of any biography of him, do you?

              Tom

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SDE80@...
              Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:24 PM
              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic

               

              In a message dated 4/27/2005 6:29:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmix@... writes:

              Can you give a little detail as to what is in OR38(5);892 for those of us with out access?

               

              Hope the link works.   In this communication to James Seddon dated July 19, 1864, Hood raises the issue of who should command his old corps now that he commands the AOT.  He does not deem the major generals with the corps at that time (Carter Stevenson, Thomas C. Hindman [who was sick] and Henry D. Clayton [in division command less than 3 weeks, having replaced A. P. Stewart]) to be "suitable," and "it was Hardee's opinion that Cheatham was the best man at my disposal, my corps commanders (Stewart was the only other one) concurring".   

               

              Hardee, of all people, Cleburne's sponser, the person who was, in the words of St. John R. Liddell, "very partial" to Cleburne, is saying Frank Cheatham was the best man at Hood's disposal to command Hood's old corps.   Not Cleburne.  

               

              No one here thinks Cleburne was a slouch.  Therefore, the original premise, that Cheatham is underrated, has some support from the men at the very top of the AOT.

               

              Sam Elliott

               

            • SDE80@aol.com
              In a message dated 4/27/2005 10:22:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmix@insightbb.com writes: Thanks, Sam, that sums it up very nicely. Cheatham is only under
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                In a message dated 4/27/2005 10:22:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmix@... writes:

                Thanks, Sam, that sums it up very nicely.  Cheatham is only under rated but under published as well. I don’t know of any biography of him, do you?

                Christopher Losson's "Tennessee's Forgotten Warriors", published by UT Press in 1989, is a very nice bio of Cheatham and his division.
                 
                Sam Elliott 
              • Tom Mix
                Sam, Thanks, I have that one in hard back and paper back forms. I bought the hard back with out realizing I already had it in paper. Any body else admit to
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                  Sam,

                  Thanks, I have that one in hard back and paper back forms.  I bought the hard back with out realizing I already had it in paper. Any body else admit to being in that club too? 

                  Tom

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of SDE80@...
                  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:42 AM
                  To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic

                   

                  In a message dated 4/27/2005 10:22:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmix@... writes:

                  Thanks, Sam, that sums it up very nicely.  Cheatham is only under rated but under published as well. I don’t know of any biography of him, do you?

                  Christopher Losson's "Tennessee's Forgotten Warriors", published by UT Press in 1989, is a very nice bio of Cheatham and his division.

                   

                  Sam Elliott 

                   

                • David Wall
                  I ll bet you get lots of yes replys, to that question. Here s another, Yes! However; it is not too serious a problem. One copy to markup and, one to put on
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                    I'll bet you get lots of yes replys, to that question. Here's another, Yes!
                    However; it is not too serious a problem. One copy to markup and, one to put
                    on your book shelf.
                    In my case, this means two bookcases. I sub-consiously name them, good
                    bookcase and, really good bookcase. O.K. guess which one has the marked up,
                    dog eared books?

                    Actually, it is easy to get two of the same book. A paperback usually has
                    one cover picture and, hardback another. Also, this can mean that you have
                    too many books, or that you can't read. You depend on the pictures to choose
                    a book. This from a guy that just confessed that he names his bookcases. I
                    need a hobby....wait, I already have one. I need a pet!

                    David

                    >From: "Tom Mix" <tmix@...>
                    >Reply-To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: <civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic
                    >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:55:27 -0500
                    >
                    >Sam,
                    >
                    >Thanks, I have that one in hard back and paper back forms. I bought the
                    >hard back with out realizing I already had it in paper. Any body else
                    >admit to being in that club too?
                    >
                    >Tom
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >-----Original Message-----
                    >From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                    >On Behalf Of SDE80@...
                    >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:42 AM
                    >To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >In a message dated 4/27/2005 10:22:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    >tmix@... writes:
                    >
                    >Thanks, Sam, that sums it up very nicely. Cheatham is only under rated
                    >but under published as well. I don't know of any biography of him, do
                    >you?
                    >
                    >Christopher Losson's "Tennessee's Forgotten Warriors", published by UT
                    >Press in 1989, is a very nice bio of Cheatham and his division.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Sam Elliott
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest/
                    >
                    >
                    >. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    ><mailto:civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                    >
                    >
                    >. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
                    >
                  • Tom Mix
                    Get a cat. Cats are cool and don t bug the books. It is nice to see that I m not alone. My book shelves are divided in one form the Civil War. One for
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                      Get a cat. Cats are cool and don't bug the books.
                      It is nice to see that I'm not alone. My book shelves are divided in one
                      form the Civil War. One for Napoleonic's. A third and fourth for
                      baseball with a fifth for football. And finally a sixth for WW I WWII
                      Korea, Vietnam with 2 shelves devoted to the Alamo. Oh, I forgot an 8th
                      for a hodge-podge collection. My Civil War is divided into bio by
                      alphabet and then battles by East and West.
                      Oh yes, obsessive/compulsive lives on. I have fried who has each book
                      cross referenced by subject, title and author with the ISBN number
                      logged into her computer. I have not gone that far yet. But I with I had
                      long ago when I had fewer books.
                      I saw and interesting discussion bibliophiles. Those of us who collect
                      books and go to extremes to protect. The key to me was when they said to
                      NEVER walk into a collector's home and pick up a book off the shelf and
                      thumb through it. Just the thought makes me cringe. I liked that and now
                      do not feel so bad by possibly being rude. THE BOOKS MATTER TO US!
                      Tom

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of David Wall
                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:53 AM
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic/another YES!

                      I'll bet you get lots of yes replys, to that question. Here's another,
                      Yes!
                      However; it is not too serious a problem. One copy to markup and, one to
                      put
                      on your book shelf.
                      In my case, this means two bookcases. I sub-consiously name them, good
                      bookcase and, really good bookcase. O.K. guess which one has the marked
                      up,
                      dog eared books?

                      Actually, it is easy to get two of the same book. A paperback usually
                      has
                      one cover picture and, hardback another. Also, this can mean that you
                      have
                      too many books, or that you can't read. You depend on the pictures to
                      choose
                      a book. This from a guy that just confessed that he names his bookcases.
                      I
                      need a hobby....wait, I already have one. I need a pet!

                      David

                      >From: "Tom Mix" <tmix@...>
                      >Reply-To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: <civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic
                      >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:55:27 -0500
                      >
                      >Sam,
                      >
                      >Thanks, I have that one in hard back and paper back forms. I bought
                      the
                      >hard back with out realizing I already had it in paper. Any body else
                      >admit to being in that club too?
                      >
                      >Tom
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >-----Original Message-----
                      >From: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com]
                      >On Behalf Of SDE80@...
                      >Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:42 AM
                      >To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Another Topic
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >In a message dated 4/27/2005 10:22:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      >tmix@... writes:
                      >
                      >Thanks, Sam, that sums it up very nicely. Cheatham is only under rated
                      >but under published as well. I don't know of any biography of him, do
                      >you?
                      >
                      >Christopher Losson's "Tennessee's Forgotten Warriors", published by UT
                      >Press in 1989, is a very nice bio of Cheatham and his division.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Sam Elliott
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest/
                      >
                      >
                      >. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      ><mailto:civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                      >
                      >
                      >. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.
                      >






                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • aot1952
                      Mr. Elliott I certainly agree Losson s book is a great read. The book also did a great job for me of making me understand Frank Cheatham as a person and
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                        Mr. Elliott
                        I certainly agree Losson's book is a great read. The book also did a
                        great job for me of making me understand Frank Cheatham as a person and
                        leader. Although I'm and have been for many years a strong Pat Cleburne
                        partisan I really do not feel Pat was done wrong when Cheatham received
                        the Corps command following Hardee's leaving of the Army after Atlanta.
                        Cheatham had previous Corps command on a few temporary occasions,
                        Cheatham's Major Generalship pre-dated Cleburne's, Cheatham record with
                        the possible exception of the morning of the first day at Murfreesboro
                        was certainly comparable to Cleburne's record of achievement,and "Old
                        Frank" was the darling in the eyes of the Tennessee contingent within
                        the Army of Tennessee.
                        Clearly Cheatham was a 'soldier's general and all contemporary accounts
                        that I have ever been exposed to indicate the average 'high private' in
                        the rear rank adored him.
                        My purely personal opinion is that Cheatham's popularity with the
                        Tennessee soldiers and politicans made his selection at the time and
                        place the correct one.
                        It should also be noted, by those that feel Cleburne's Enlist Black
                        proposal was what kept him from higher command, Frank Cheatham also
                        appears to have endorsed the same proposal. While Cheatham was not
                        present at the meeting where Cleburne read his proposal subseqent
                        actions by Cheatham indicate he was probably in favor of the proposal.
                        At least Wiiliam Walker thought so and reprted it to others who found
                        the proposal so offensive. It is also interesting to note that to the
                        extent Bragg may have been consulted it is pretty hard to believe that
                        Cheatham got his endorsement.
                        Of course Cheatham's role in the whole Spring Hill affair is subject to
                        never ending debate I have pretty well concluded that many where to
                        blame for that evening and for some reason, Cheatham and Hood just
                        never got on the same page that day. For this I ultimately have to
                        blame Hood and poor planning.
                        At any rate Cheatham is not under appreciated in my house, 14 years
                        ago when I got my little coon hound pup I named him "Old Frank" after
                        the good general. 14 years later "Old Frank" is still guarding the
                        place and he like the general likes a little nip of the sour mash every
                        now and again.
                        Regards-
                        Wakefield

                        > In a message dated 4/27/2005 10:22:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                        > tmix@i... writes:
                        > Thanks, Sam, that sums it up very nicely. Cheatham is only under
                        rated but
                        > under published as well. I don’t know of any biography of him, do
                        you?
                        > Christopher Losson's "Tennessee's Forgotten Warriors", published by
                        UT Press
                        > in 1989, is a very nice bio of Cheatham and his division.
                        >
                        > Sam Elliott
                      • keeno2@aol.com
                        Yes, Tom, I do the same thing. I have somewhere over 20 duplicates in my library of which a few are intentional (i.e., read the paperback, preserve the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                          Yes, Tom, I do the same thing. I have somewhere over 20 duplicates in my library of which a few are intentional (i.e., read the paperback, preserve the clothbound) but for the most part, it was forgetting that I already had one. For the most part, I know what I have, but that bargain book that is too good to pass up is all too often one I have.
                           
                          Example. A friend and I were discussing that there was no reason to buy Sears' "Gettysburg" because it had nothing new. So I resolved not to buy one. Checking through my database the other day, I found that I did have it. Oh well.
                           
                          Anybody interested in swapping duplicates?
                        • keeno2@aol.com
                          David: You really need a gigantic shot of oh be joyful. Then a long nap. After being thus refreshed. Forget about it. Move on, and see if you can get someone
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                            David:
                             
                            You really need a gigantic shot of "oh be joyful." Then a long nap.
                             
                            After being thus refreshed. Forget about it. Move on, and see if you can get someone to take the dupes off your hands.
                          • keeno2@aol.com
                            Mr. Mix: Another anal bibliophile! So glad to meet you. I thought I was the only one who regards a book -- any book -- as a sacred object to be worshipped. My
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                              Mr. Mix:
                               
                              Another anal bibliophile! So glad to meet you. I thought I was the only one who regards a book -- any book -- as a sacred object to be worshipped.
                               
                              My library is divided into eastern and western CW theaters, Socio/Political, Biographies, General Military and Miscellaneous. Then there's the fiction and non-fiction sections. Non-fiction is rather eclectic --- some of everything that is not CW.
                               
                              Going to have to print out your post to prove to my wife that I'm not insane (by myself).
                            • keeno2@aol.com
                              Mr. Wakefield, I certainly hope that dawg is actually employed occasionally hunting the wily coon. Last year, a friend and I visited Shiloh. We had a bit of a
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                                Mr. Wakefield, I certainly hope that dawg is actually employed occasionally hunting the wily 'coon. Last year, a friend and I visited Shiloh. We had a bit of a problem with accommodations because of 'coon hunting season in the area. When we found a place, it was heavily frequented with coon hunters from all over. What a bunch! $3000 pickups and $10,000 dogs. They were almost as interesting as the battlefield.
                              • SDE80@aol.com
                                In a message dated 4/28/2005 5:30:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, aot1952@yahoo.com writes: It should also be noted, by those that feel Cleburne s Enlist Black
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 28, 2005
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                                  In a message dated 4/28/2005 5:30:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, aot1952@... writes:
                                  It should also be noted, by those that feel Cleburne's Enlist Black
                                  proposal was what kept him from higher command, Frank Cheatham also
                                  appears to have endorsed the same proposal. While Cheatham was not
                                  present at the meeting where Cleburne read his proposal subseqent
                                  actions by Cheatham indicate he was probably in favor of the proposal.
                                  At least Wiiliam Walker thought so and reprted it to others who found
                                  the proposal so offensive. It is also interesting to note that to the
                                  extent Bragg may have been consulted it is pretty hard to believe that
                                  Cheatham got his endorsement.
                                  Well, if Cheatham was for it, he, like Hardee, had the good sense to lay low. 
                                   
                                  If Cheatham had any inherent advantage over Cleburne, besides his seniority, it was his good political connections.  
                                   
                                  Sam Elliott
                                   
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