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That " Devil" Forest

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  • tlind1@yahoo.com
    Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just picked it up at Borders...got through the foreward by Albert Castel...he rates the book pretty high but does
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 4, 2005
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      Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just picked it up at
      Borders...got through the foreward by Albert Castel...he rates the
      book pretty high but does make note that Forest is Wyeth's hero and
      is a little biased...Just wondering waht everyone thought of this..

      Kindest Regards,
      Tracey
    • DPowell334@AOL.COM
      In a message dated 3/4/2005 12:31:53 PM Central Standard Time, ... All of the Forrest Bios are pretty complimentary, and tend to focus on 1862 and 64-5. Wyeth
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 4, 2005
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        In a message dated 3/4/2005 12:31:53 PM Central Standard Time, tlind1@... writes:


        Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just picked it up at
        Borders...got through the foreward by Albert Castel...he rates the
        book pretty high but does make note that Forest is Wyeth's hero and
        is a little biased...Just wondering waht everyone thought of this..

        Kindest Regards,
        Tracey




        All of the Forrest Bios are pretty complimentary, and tend to focus on 1862 and 64-5. Wyeth is no exception. The critical  last half of 1863 period, when Forrest was in charge of one of Bragg's two Cav Corps, is glossed over quickly, with little critical analysis.

        IMO, none of the Forrest Bios are really a balanced treatment. They all, to a greater or lesser extent, simply tell the same back-slapping stories about him.

        Dave Powell
      • Rielle
        What I really would like to know about Nathan Bedford Forest is [according to the list members and your sources] why did he act as he did at Fort Pillow? What
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 4, 2005
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          What I really would like to know about Nathan Bedford Forest is [according to the list members and your sources] why did he act as he did at Fort Pillow? What do the historical sources say about it. I've read at least part of Forest' report on the affair to his superiors, but ...it seems to me that this might be another case like Andersonville, where Wirz claimed innocence, and claimed he did all he could there [which might be true] and the Committee on the Conduct of the War wouldn't listen to him at all.

          I'm genuinely interested and curious about this, what sources can you suggest?



          How body from spirit does unwind, until we are pure spirit at the end
          "Infirmity" by Theodore Roethke
          American poet, 1908-1963


          --- DPowell334@... wrote:

          From: DPowell334@...
          Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:42:22 EST
          To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
          In a message dated 3/4/2005 12:31:53 PM Central Standard Time,
          tlind1@... writes:

          Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just picked it
          up at
          Borders...got through the foreward by Albert Castel...he
          rates the
          book pretty high but does make note that Forest is Wyeth's
          hero and
          is a little biased...Just wondering waht everyone thought of
          this..
          Kindest Regards,
          Tracey

          All of the Forrest Bios are pretty complimentary, and tend to
          focus on 1862 and 64-5. Wyeth is no exception. The critical
          last half of 1863 period, when Forrest was in charge of one of
          Bragg's two Cav Corps, is glossed over quickly, with little
          critical analysis.
          IMO, none of the Forrest Bios are really a balanced treatment.
          They all, to a greater or lesser extent, simply tell the same
          back-slapping stories about him.
          Dave Powell

          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT
          click here
          __________________________________________________________

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          civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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        • Tom Mix
          That is a very controversial topic but from what I know Forrest had the upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high ground looking into the fort . The
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 4, 2005
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            That is a very controversial topic but from what I know Forrest had the
            upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high ground looking into the
            "fort". The fort was really some earth works created with in the
            original previously built by Confederates. The inhabitants were not just
            Black soldiers but also white Union supporters from Western Tennessee.
            The fort had an open rear inviting envelopment. Forrest was in position
            to over run the fort and did what he always did; inform the Union
            commander that if he did not surrender the inhabitants would be put to
            the sword. He meant the Union soldiers in general not just the Black
            Union soldiers. In the past that had been enough for a quick surrender
            but this time his terms were rejected. This surprised Forrest but he
            ordered the attack. It ended up being a shooting gallery. They quickly
            over ran the earth works and fired down upon the Union troops. It was
            virtually impossible to not kill their targets. The Union commander died
            early leaving the Union command structure in a mess. No one really
            assumed command. The US troops were like fish in barrel. Forrest and his
            officers rode down to the battle and ordered the firing to cease.
            Eventually the firing stopped but it was too late. A horrible and
            inaccurate legend had been born.
            Grant ordered Sherman to investigate the fight after the war. Sherman
            exonerated Forrest. The troops had simply got out of control. Confusion
            reigned until Forrest arrived personally to put a stop to it which he
            did.

            After the war Forrest worked to increase the rights of the newly freed
            slaves. He especially worked hard in the area of elections. The pre and
            post war Forrest's were two different men all together.

            We won't discuss the Klan here but suffice it to note that he resigned
            when they became a hate group. No more should be said on this forum
            regarding it per our rules which I respect and agree with.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Rielle [mailto:RielleBhaer@...]
            Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:51 PM
            To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest


            What I really would like to know about Nathan Bedford Forest is
            [according to the list members and your sources] why did he act as he
            did at Fort Pillow? What do the historical sources say about it. I've
            read at least part of Forest' report on the affair to his superiors, but
            ...it seems to me that this might be another case like Andersonville,
            where Wirz claimed innocence, and claimed he did all he could there
            [which might be true] and the Committee on the Conduct of the War
            wouldn't listen to him at all.

            I'm genuinely interested and curious about this, what sources can you
            suggest?



            How body from spirit does unwind, until we are pure spirit at the end
            "Infirmity" by Theodore Roethke
            American poet, 1908-1963


            --- DPowell334@... wrote:

            From: DPowell334@...
            Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:42:22 EST
            To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
            In a message dated 3/4/2005 12:31:53 PM Central Standard Time,
            tlind1@... writes:

            Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just picked it
            up at
            Borders...got through the foreward by Albert Castel...he
            rates the
            book pretty high but does make note that Forest is Wyeth's
            hero and
            is a little biased...Just wondering waht everyone thought of
            this..
            Kindest Regards,
            Tracey

            All of the Forrest Bios are pretty complimentary, and tend to
            focus on 1862 and 64-5. Wyeth is no exception. The critical
            last half of 1863 period, when Forrest was in charge of one of
            Bragg's two Cav Corps, is glossed over quickly, with little
            critical analysis.
            IMO, none of the Forrest Bios are really a balanced treatment.
            They all, to a greater or lesser extent, simply tell the same
            back-slapping stories about him.
            Dave Powell

            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            ADVERTISEMENT
            click here
            __________________________________________________________

            Yahoo! Groups Links
            * To visit your group on the web, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest/

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            civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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            Service.


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          • Tom Mix
            Let me recommend another book. The Confederacy s Greatest General Nathan Bedford Forrest by Brian Steel Wills. Tom ... From: Rielle
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 4, 2005
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              Let me recommend another book. "The Confederacy's Greatest General
              Nathan Bedford Forrest" by Brian Steel Wills.
              Tom

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Rielle [mailto:RielleBhaer@...]
              Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:51 PM
              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest


              What I really would like to know about Nathan Bedford Forest is
              [according to the list members and your sources] why did he act as he
              did at Fort Pillow? What do the historical sources say about it. I've
              read at least part of Forest' report on the affair to his superiors, but
              ...it seems to me that this might be another case like Andersonville,
              where Wirz claimed innocence, and claimed he did all he could there
              [which might be true] and the Committee on the Conduct of the War
              wouldn't listen to him at all.

              I'm genuinely interested and curious about this, what sources can you
              suggest?



              How body from spirit does unwind, until we are pure spirit at the end
              "Infirmity" by Theodore Roethke
              American poet, 1908-1963


              --- DPowell334@... wrote:

              From: DPowell334@...
              Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:42:22 EST
              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
              In a message dated 3/4/2005 12:31:53 PM Central Standard Time,
              tlind1@... writes:

              Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just picked it
              up at
              Borders...got through the foreward by Albert Castel...he
              rates the
              book pretty high but does make note that Forest is Wyeth's
              hero and
              is a little biased...Just wondering waht everyone thought of
              this..
              Kindest Regards,
              Tracey

              All of the Forrest Bios are pretty complimentary, and tend to
              focus on 1862 and 64-5. Wyeth is no exception. The critical
              last half of 1863 period, when Forrest was in charge of one of
              Bragg's two Cav Corps, is glossed over quickly, with little
              critical analysis.
              IMO, none of the Forrest Bios are really a balanced treatment.
              They all, to a greater or lesser extent, simply tell the same
              back-slapping stories about him.
              Dave Powell

              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT
              click here
              __________________________________________________________

              Yahoo! Groups Links
              * To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest/

              * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

              * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.


              _____________________________________________________________
              Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
              As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at
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            • Ricky Washburn
              Thank you Tom, Very well stated! ... .....Eternally..... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 4, 2005
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                Thank you Tom, Very well stated!

                --- Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:

                > That is a very controversial topic but from what I
                > know Forrest had the
                > upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high
                > ground looking into the
                > "fort". The fort was really some earth works created
                > with in the
                > original previously built by Confederates. The
                > inhabitants were not just
                > Black soldiers but also white Union supporters from
                > Western Tennessee.
                > The fort had an open rear inviting envelopment.
                > Forrest was in position
                > to over run the fort and did what he always did;
                > inform the Union
                > commander that if he did not surrender the
                > inhabitants would be put to
                > the sword. He meant the Union soldiers in general
                > not just the Black
                > Union soldiers. In the past that had been enough for
                > a quick surrender
                > but this time his terms were rejected. This
                > surprised Forrest but he
                > ordered the attack. It ended up being a shooting
                > gallery. They quickly
                > over ran the earth works and fired down upon the
                > Union troops. It was
                > virtually impossible to not kill their targets. The
                > Union commander died
                > early leaving the Union command structure in a mess.
                > No one really
                > assumed command. The US troops were like fish in
                > barrel. Forrest and his
                > officers rode down to the battle and ordered the
                > firing to cease.
                > Eventually the firing stopped but it was too late. A
                > horrible and
                > inaccurate legend had been born.
                > Grant ordered Sherman to investigate the fight after
                > the war. Sherman
                > exonerated Forrest. The troops had simply got out of
                > control. Confusion
                > reigned until Forrest arrived personally to put a
                > stop to it which he
                > did.
                >
                > After the war Forrest worked to increase the rights
                > of the newly freed
                > slaves. He especially worked hard in the area of
                > elections. The pre and
                > post war Forrest's were two different men all
                > together.
                >
                > We won't discuss the Klan here but suffice it to
                > note that he resigned
                > when they became a hate group. No more should be
                > said on this forum
                > regarding it per our rules which I respect and agree
                > with.
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Rielle [mailto:RielleBhaer@...]
                > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:51 PM
                > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                >
                >
                > What I really would like to know about Nathan
                > Bedford Forest is
                > [according to the list members and your sources] why
                > did he act as he
                > did at Fort Pillow? What do the historical sources
                > say about it. I've
                > read at least part of Forest' report on the affair
                > to his superiors, but
                > ...it seems to me that this might be another case
                > like Andersonville,
                > where Wirz claimed innocence, and claimed he did all
                > he could there
                > [which might be true] and the Committee on the
                > Conduct of the War
                > wouldn't listen to him at all.
                >
                > I'm genuinely interested and curious about this,
                > what sources can you
                > suggest?
                >
                >
                >
                > How body from spirit does unwind, until we are pure
                > spirit at the end
                > "Infirmity" by Theodore Roethke
                > American poet, 1908-1963
                >
                >
                > --- DPowell334@... wrote:
                >
                > From: DPowell334@...
                > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:42:22 EST
                > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                > In a message dated 3/4/2005 12:31:53 PM Central
                > Standard Time,
                > tlind1@... writes:
                >
                > Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just
                > picked it
                > up at
                > Borders...got through the foreward by Albert
                > Castel...he
                > rates the
                > book pretty high but does make note that Forest
                > is Wyeth's
                > hero and
                > is a little biased...Just wondering waht everyone
                > thought of
                > this..
                > Kindest Regards,
                > Tracey
                >
                > All of the Forrest Bios are pretty complimentary,
                > and tend to
                > focus on 1862 and 64-5. Wyeth is no exception.
                > The critical
                > last half of 1863 period, when Forrest was in
                > charge of one of
                > Bragg's two Cav Corps, is glossed over quickly,
                > with little
                > critical analysis.
                > IMO, none of the Forrest Bios are really a balanced
                > treatment.
                > They all, to a greater or lesser extent, simply
                > tell the same
                > back-slapping stories about him.
                > Dave Powell
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                > click here
                >
                >
                __________________________________________________________
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest/
                >
                > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                > to:
                > civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                > Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service.
                >
                >
                >
                _____________________________________________________________
                > Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
                > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at
                > http://isp.netscape.com/emreg
                >
                > Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



                .....Eternally.....



                __________________________________________________
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                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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              • Tom Mix
                Ricky, For a long time I despised Forrest but that was due to my ignorance. Since then he has become a favorite of mine. A man who took control of his life and
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 4, 2005
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                  Ricky,
                  For a long time I despised Forrest but that was due to my ignorance.
                  Since then he has become a favorite of mine. A man who took control of
                  his life and changed himself for the better. After the war he also
                  became a devout Christian.
                  tom

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ricky Washburn [mailto:rwwiv@...]
                  Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 7:19 PM
                  To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest



                  Thank you Tom, Very well stated!

                  --- Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:

                  > That is a very controversial topic but from what I
                  > know Forrest had the
                  > upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high
                  > ground looking into the
                  > "fort". The fort was really some earth works created
                  > with in the
                  > original previously built by Confederates. The
                  > inhabitants were not just
                  > Black soldiers but also white Union supporters from
                  > Western Tennessee.
                  > The fort had an open rear inviting envelopment.
                  > Forrest was in position
                  > to over run the fort and did what he always did;
                  > inform the Union
                  > commander that if he did not surrender the
                  > inhabitants would be put to
                  > the sword. He meant the Union soldiers in general
                  > not just the Black
                  > Union soldiers. In the past that had been enough for
                  > a quick surrender
                  > but this time his terms were rejected. This
                  > surprised Forrest but he
                  > ordered the attack. It ended up being a shooting
                  > gallery. They quickly
                  > over ran the earth works and fired down upon the
                  > Union troops. It was
                  > virtually impossible to not kill their targets. The
                  > Union commander died
                  > early leaving the Union command structure in a mess.
                  > No one really
                  > assumed command. The US troops were like fish in
                  > barrel. Forrest and his
                  > officers rode down to the battle and ordered the
                  > firing to cease.
                  > Eventually the firing stopped but it was too late. A
                  > horrible and
                  > inaccurate legend had been born.
                  > Grant ordered Sherman to investigate the fight after
                  > the war. Sherman
                  > exonerated Forrest. The troops had simply got out of
                  > control. Confusion
                  > reigned until Forrest arrived personally to put a
                  > stop to it which he
                  > did.
                  >
                  > After the war Forrest worked to increase the rights
                  > of the newly freed
                  > slaves. He especially worked hard in the area of
                  > elections. The pre and
                  > post war Forrest's were two different men all
                  > together.
                  >
                  > We won't discuss the Klan here but suffice it to
                  > note that he resigned
                  > when they became a hate group. No more should be
                  > said on this forum
                  > regarding it per our rules which I respect and agree
                  > with.
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Rielle [mailto:RielleBhaer@...]
                  > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:51 PM
                  > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                  >
                  >
                  > What I really would like to know about Nathan
                  > Bedford Forest is
                  > [according to the list members and your sources] why
                  > did he act as he
                  > did at Fort Pillow? What do the historical sources
                  > say about it. I've
                  > read at least part of Forest' report on the affair
                  > to his superiors, but
                  > ...it seems to me that this might be another case
                  > like Andersonville,
                  > where Wirz claimed innocence, and claimed he did all
                  > he could there
                  > [which might be true] and the Committee on the
                  > Conduct of the War
                  > wouldn't listen to him at all.
                  >
                  > I'm genuinely interested and curious about this,
                  > what sources can you
                  > suggest?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > How body from spirit does unwind, until we are pure
                  > spirit at the end
                  > "Infirmity" by Theodore Roethke
                  > American poet, 1908-1963
                  >
                  >
                  > --- DPowell334@... wrote:
                  >
                  > From: DPowell334@...
                  > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:42:22 EST
                  > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                  > In a message dated 3/4/2005 12:31:53 PM Central
                  > Standard Time,
                  > tlind1@... writes:
                  >
                  > Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just
                  > picked it
                  > up at
                  > Borders...got through the foreward by Albert
                  > Castel...he
                  > rates the
                  > book pretty high but does make note that Forest
                  > is Wyeth's
                  > hero and
                  > is a little biased...Just wondering waht everyone
                  > thought of
                  > this..
                  > Kindest Regards,
                  > Tracey
                  >
                  > All of the Forrest Bios are pretty complimentary,
                  > and tend to
                  > focus on 1862 and 64-5. Wyeth is no exception.
                  > The critical
                  > last half of 1863 period, when Forrest was in
                  > charge of one of
                  > Bragg's two Cav Corps, is glossed over quickly,
                  > with little
                  > critical analysis.
                  > IMO, none of the Forrest Bios are really a balanced
                  > treatment.
                  > They all, to a greater or lesser extent, simply
                  > tell the same
                  > back-slapping stories about him.
                  > Dave Powell
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  > click here
                  >
                  >
                  __________________________________________________________
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/civilwarwest/
                  >
                  > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
                  > to:
                  > civilwarwest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                  > Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  _____________________________________________________________
                  > Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
                  > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at
                  > http://isp.netscape.com/emreg
                  >
                  > Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  .....Eternally.....



                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                • brainbent
                  Very well said. Troops many times got out of hand in the heat of battle and this was just another case of the same. Almost every battle account has troops of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 5, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Very well said.

                    Troops many times got out of hand in the heat of battle and this was
                    just another case of the same.

                    Almost every battle account has troops of either side firing into the
                    back of those retreating, whether orderly or fleeing in panic.


                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
                    > That is a very controversial topic but from what I know Forrest had
                    the
                    > upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high ground looking
                    into the
                    > "fort". The fort was really some earth works created with in the
                    > original previously built by Confederates. The inhabitants were not
                    just
                    > Black soldiers but also white Union supporters from Western
                    Tennessee.
                    > The fort had an open rear inviting envelopment. Forrest was in
                    position
                    > to over run the fort and did what he always did; inform the Union
                    > commander that if he did not surrender the inhabitants would be put
                    to
                    > the sword. He meant the Union soldiers in general not just the Black
                    > Union soldiers. In the past that had been enough for a quick
                    surrender
                    > but this time his terms were rejected. This surprised Forrest but he
                    > ordered the attack. It ended up being a shooting gallery. They
                    quickly
                    > over ran the earth works and fired down upon the Union troops. It
                    was
                    > virtually impossible to not kill their targets. The Union commander
                    died
                    > early leaving the Union command structure in a mess. No one really
                    > assumed command. The US troops were like fish in barrel. Forrest
                    and his
                    > officers rode down to the battle and ordered the firing to cease.
                    > Eventually the firing stopped but it was too late. A horrible and
                    > inaccurate legend had been born.
                    > Grant ordered Sherman to investigate the fight after the war.
                    Sherman
                    > exonerated Forrest. The troops had simply got out of control.
                    Confusion
                    > reigned until Forrest arrived personally to put a stop to it which
                    he
                    > did.
                    >
                    > After the war Forrest worked to increase the rights of the newly
                    freed
                    > slaves. He especially worked hard in the area of elections. The pre
                    and
                    > post war Forrest's were two different men all together.
                    >
                    > We won't discuss the Klan here but suffice it to note that he
                    resigned
                    > when they became a hate group. No more should be said on this forum
                    > regarding it per our rules which I respect and agree with.
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Rielle [mailto:RielleBhaer@n...]
                    > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:51 PM
                    > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                    >
                    >
                    > What I really would like to know about Nathan Bedford Forest is
                    > [according to the list members and your sources] why did he act as
                    he
                    > did at Fort Pillow? What do the historical sources say about it.
                    I've
                    > read at least part of Forest' report on the affair to his
                    superiors, but
                    > ...it seems to me that this might be another case like
                    Andersonville,
                    > where Wirz claimed innocence, and claimed he did all he could there
                    > [which might be true] and the Committee on the Conduct of the War
                    > wouldn't listen to him at all.
                    >
                    > I'm genuinely interested and curious about this, what sources can
                    you
                    > suggest?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > How body from spirit does unwind, until we are pure spirit at the
                    end
                    > "Infirmity" by Theodore Roethke
                    > American poet, 1908-1963
                    >
                    >
                    > --- DPowell334@A... wrote:
                    >
                    > From: DPowell334@A...
                    > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:42:22 EST
                    > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                    > In a message dated 3/4/2005 12:31:53 PM Central Standard Time,
                    > tlind1@y... writes:
                    >
                    > Anyone read this book by John Allan Wyeth?? I just picked it
                    > up at
                    > Borders...got through the foreward by Albert Castel...he
                    > rates the
                    > book pretty high but does make note that Forest is Wyeth's
                    > hero and
                    > is a little biased...Just wondering waht everyone thought of
                    > this..
                    > Kindest Regards,
                    > Tracey
                    >
                    > All of the Forrest Bios are pretty complimentary, and tend to
                    > focus on 1862 and 64-5. Wyeth is no exception. The critical
                    > last half of 1863 period, when Forrest was in charge of one of
                    > Bragg's two Cav Corps, is glossed over quickly, with little
                    > critical analysis.
                    > IMO, none of the Forrest Bios are really a balanced treatment.
                    > They all, to a greater or lesser extent, simply tell the same
                    > back-slapping stories about him.
                    > Dave Powell
                    >
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                  • huddleston.r@comcast.net
                    No, Tom, it is not well stated: you make unsupported statements about NBF s postwar career, and then blandly comment that the topic is off limits. A good way
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 5, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      No, Tom, it is not "well stated: you make unsupported statements about NBF's postwar career, and then blandly comment that the topic is off limits. A good way to start an argument, while waiting for the moderators to step in.

                      Take care,

                      Bob

                      Judy and Bob Huddleston
                      10643 Sperry Street
                      Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                      303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Ricky Washburn [mailto:rwwiv@...]
                      Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 6:19 PM
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                      Thank you Tom, Very well stated!

                      --- Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:

                      > That is a very controversial topic but from what I know Forrest had
                      > the upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high ground looking
                      > into the "fort". The fort was really some earth works created with in
                      > the original previously built by Confederates. The inhabitants were
                      > not just Black soldiers but also white Union supporters from Western
                      > Tennessee.
                      > The fort had an open rear inviting envelopment.
                      > Forrest was in position
                      > to over run the fort and did what he always did; inform the Union
                      > commander that if he did not surrender the inhabitants would be put to
                      > the sword. He meant the Union soldiers in general not just the Black
                      > Union soldiers. In the past that had been enough for a quick surrender
                      > but this time his terms were rejected. This surprised Forrest but he
                      > ordered the attack. It ended up being a shooting gallery. They quickly
                      > over ran the earth works and fired down upon the Union troops. It was
                      > virtually impossible to not kill their targets. The Union commander
                      > died early leaving the Union command structure in a mess.
                      > No one really
                      > assumed command. The US troops were like fish in barrel. Forrest and
                      > his officers rode down to the battle and ordered the firing to cease.
                      > Eventually the firing stopped but it was too late. A horrible and
                      > inaccurate legend had been born.
                      > Grant ordered Sherman to investigate the fight after the war. Sherman
                      > exonerated Forrest. The troops had simply got out of control.
                      > Confusion reigned until Forrest arrived personally to put a stop to it
                      > which he did.
                      >
                      > After the war Forrest worked to increase the rights of the newly freed
                      > slaves. He especially worked hard in the area of elections. The pre
                      > and post war Forrest's were two different men all together.
                      >
                      > We won't discuss the Klan here but suffice it to note that he resigned
                      > when they became a hate group. No more should be said on this forum
                      > regarding it per our rules which I respect and agree with.
                    • Tom Mix
                      Bob, I know the rules of how this moderated and plan to follow them. How you view them is up to you. I m not about to begin foot noting my comments, so deal
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 5, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Bob,
                        I know the rules of how this moderated and plan to follow them. How you
                        view them is up to you.
                        I'm not about to begin foot noting my comments, so deal with it.
                        tom

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: huddleston.r@... [mailto:huddleston.r@...]
                        Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:07 PM
                        To: Civil War West
                        Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest


                        No, Tom, it is not "well stated: you make unsupported statements about
                        NBF's postwar career, and then blandly comment that the topic is off
                        limits. A good way to start an argument, while waiting for the
                        moderators to step in.

                        Take care,

                        Bob

                        Judy and Bob Huddleston
                        10643 Sperry Street
                        Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                        303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ricky Washburn [mailto:rwwiv@...]
                        Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 6:19 PM
                        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                        Thank you Tom, Very well stated!

                        --- Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:

                        > That is a very controversial topic but from what I know Forrest had
                        > the upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high ground looking
                        > into the "fort". The fort was really some earth works created with in
                        > the original previously built by Confederates. The inhabitants were
                        > not just Black soldiers but also white Union supporters from Western
                        > Tennessee.
                        > The fort had an open rear inviting envelopment.
                        > Forrest was in position
                        > to over run the fort and did what he always did; inform the Union
                        > commander that if he did not surrender the inhabitants would be put to

                        > the sword. He meant the Union soldiers in general not just the Black
                        > Union soldiers. In the past that had been enough for a quick surrender

                        > but this time his terms were rejected. This surprised Forrest but he
                        > ordered the attack. It ended up being a shooting gallery. They quickly

                        > over ran the earth works and fired down upon the Union troops. It was
                        > virtually impossible to not kill their targets. The Union commander
                        > died early leaving the Union command structure in a mess.
                        > No one really
                        > assumed command. The US troops were like fish in barrel. Forrest and
                        > his officers rode down to the battle and ordered the firing to cease.
                        > Eventually the firing stopped but it was too late. A horrible and
                        > inaccurate legend had been born.
                        > Grant ordered Sherman to investigate the fight after the war. Sherman
                        > exonerated Forrest. The troops had simply got out of control.
                        > Confusion reigned until Forrest arrived personally to put a stop to it

                        > which he did.
                        >
                        > After the war Forrest worked to increase the rights of the newly freed

                        > slaves. He especially worked hard in the area of elections. The pre
                        > and post war Forrest's were two different men all together.
                        >
                        > We won't discuss the Klan here but suffice it to note that he resigned

                        > when they became a hate group. No more should be said on this forum
                        > regarding it per our rules which I respect and agree with.




                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Dick Weeks
                        Well, the moderator just stepped in. Take this beauty to private email. Now. I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant, Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 5, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well, the moderator just stepped in. Take this beauty to private email.
                          Now.

                          I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                          Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                          http://www.civilwarhome.com

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <huddleston.r@...>
                          To: "Civil War West" <civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 1:06 PM
                          Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest


                          > No, Tom, it is not "well stated: you make unsupported statements about
                          NBF's postwar career, and then blandly comment that the topic is off limits.
                          A good way to start an argument, while waiting for the moderators to step
                          in.
                          >
                          > Take care,
                          >
                          > Bob
                          >
                          > Judy and Bob Huddleston
                          > 10643 Sperry Street
                          > Northglenn, CO 80234-3612
                          > 303.451.6376 Huddleston.r@...
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Ricky Washburn [mailto:rwwiv@...]
                          > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 6:19 PM
                          > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] That " Devil" Forest
                          > Thank you Tom, Very well stated!
                          >
                          > --- Tom Mix <tmix@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > That is a very controversial topic but from what I know Forrest had
                          > > the upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high ground looking
                          > > into the "fort". The fort was really some earth works created with in
                          > > the original previously built by Confederates. The inhabitants were
                          > > not just Black soldiers but also white Union supporters from Western
                          > > Tennessee.
                          > > The fort had an open rear inviting envelopment.
                          > > Forrest was in position
                          > > to over run the fort and did what he always did; inform the Union
                          > > commander that if he did not surrender the inhabitants would be put to
                          > > the sword. He meant the Union soldiers in general not just the Black
                          > > Union soldiers. In the past that had been enough for a quick surrender
                          > > but this time his terms were rejected. This surprised Forrest but he
                          > > ordered the attack. It ended up being a shooting gallery. They quickly
                          > > over ran the earth works and fired down upon the Union troops. It was
                          > > virtually impossible to not kill their targets. The Union commander
                          > > died early leaving the Union command structure in a mess.
                          > > No one really
                          > > assumed command. The US troops were like fish in barrel. Forrest and
                          > > his officers rode down to the battle and ordered the firing to cease.
                          > > Eventually the firing stopped but it was too late. A horrible and
                          > > inaccurate legend had been born.
                          > > Grant ordered Sherman to investigate the fight after the war. Sherman
                          > > exonerated Forrest. The troops had simply got out of control.
                          > > Confusion reigned until Forrest arrived personally to put a stop to it
                          > > which he did.
                          > >
                          > > After the war Forrest worked to increase the rights of the newly freed
                          > > slaves. He especially worked hard in the area of elections. The pre
                          > > and post war Forrest's were two different men all together.
                          > >
                          > > We won't discuss the Klan here but suffice it to note that he resigned
                          > > when they became a hate group. No more should be said on this forum
                          > > regarding it per our rules which I respect and agree with.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • James2044
                          ... had the ... into the ... not just ... Tennessee. ... position ... put to ... Black ... surrender ... he ... quickly ... was ... commander died ... and his
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 5, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Mix" <tmix@i...> wrote:
                            > That is a very controversial topic but from what I know Forrest
                            had the
                            > upper hand in the battle. He controlled the high ground looking
                            into the
                            > "fort". The fort was really some earth works created with in the
                            > original previously built by Confederates. The inhabitants were
                            not just
                            > Black soldiers but also white Union supporters from Western
                            Tennessee.
                            > The fort had an open rear inviting envelopment. Forrest was in
                            position
                            > to over run the fort and did what he always did; inform the Union
                            > commander that if he did not surrender the inhabitants would be
                            put to
                            > the sword. He meant the Union soldiers in general not just the
                            Black
                            > Union soldiers. In the past that had been enough for a quick
                            surrender
                            > but this time his terms were rejected. This surprised Forrest but
                            he
                            > ordered the attack. It ended up being a shooting gallery. They
                            quickly
                            > over ran the earth works and fired down upon the Union troops. It
                            was
                            > virtually impossible to not kill their targets. The Union
                            commander died
                            > early leaving the Union command structure in a mess. No one really
                            > assumed command. The US troops were like fish in barrel. Forrest
                            and his
                            > officers rode down to the battle and ordered the firing to cease.
                            > Eventually the firing stopped but it was too late. A horrible and
                            > inaccurate legend had been born.
                            > Grant ordered Sherman to investigate the fight after the war.
                            Sherman
                            > exonerated Forrest. The troops had simply got out of control.
                            Confusion
                            > reigned until Forrest arrived personally to put a stop to it which
                            he
                            > did.
                            >
                            > After the war Forrest worked to increase the rights of the newly
                            freed
                            > slaves. He especially worked hard in the area of elections. The
                            pre and
                            > post war Forrest's were two different men all together.
                            >
                            > We won't discuss the Klan here but suffice it to note that he
                            resigned
                            > when they became a hate group. No more should be said on this forum
                            > regarding it per our rules which I respect and agree with.
                            >
                            *******************************************************************

                            Tom has presented a very good overall description of the "battle".
                            I would like to add that the loss of command & control on the Union
                            side made a general surrender impossible. More than once, Union
                            troops fired on men accepting a surrender of other Union troops.
                            Regional & racial hate did play into the problems but the loss of
                            C&C was the major reason.

                            For an excellent discussion of the surrender process during battle,
                            see John Keegan's "The Face of Battle".

                            James2044
                          • James2044
                            ... the ... That is a legal action in either case. They should be considered a target. James2044
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 5, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "brainbent" <brainbent@y...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Almost every battle account has troops of either side firing into
                              the
                              > back of those retreating, whether orderly or fleeing in panic.
                              >

                              That is a legal action in either case. They should be considered a
                              target.

                              James2044
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