Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Re: Books, one more time

Expand Messages
  • M. E. Heatherington
    Dear tristan4th : Please allow me one more pass at Books, or more precisely at citations. What you are asking are wonderful questions -- truly. Not joking
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 3, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear "tristan4th":
       
      Please allow me one more pass at "Books," or more precisely at citations.
       
      What you are asking are wonderful questions -- truly.  Not joking here.  These are precisely the kinds of questions that professionals-in-training, or interested amateurs, or anyone who wants to do serious, responsible work that is respected by other knowledgeable people in her/his field, MUST ask.  If a person does NOT ask, and does NOT attempt to learn how to answer, questions about how, when, why, and where to cite, then that person, I believe, is not really perceptive or responsible enough to grapple honorably with historical material.  So keep asking.
       
      Although I believe that there is no ONE right answer to the questions about citation, here is a rule of thumb that I use in my own research and when trying to help students learn how to do research, too.  It is not so different from Dave Powell's, to wit: If I did not think of it, then I must cite the author who gave me the idea.  That's all there is to it -- surprisingly simple, if a person is honorable and honest with him/herself.  Plagiarism is simple, too: it's the presenting of something that was NOT originally yours as if it WERE yours.  Think of plagiarism as theft and you will not be far wrong.
       
      After a while, you will learn what are the generally-known-and-accepted FACTS that do not need to be cited.  You will, I suspect, also learn that no THEORY (argument, thesis, supposition) should ever go un-cited.
       
      Regards,
      Madelon H
       
       
       

         Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:39:33 -0000
         From: "tristan4th" <
      tristan4th@...>
      Subject: Re: Books



      I hate to add on to this discussion, because I'm eager to get back to
      learning battles & the war...But one more "bone-headed" question for
      amatuer writers like myself..You, Mr. Powell being in the library
      field especially...With so so much that has been written, the
      question, how does one not help but "perform" some form
      of "plagiarism"? This has always been something that I try to
      avoid...But so much has been repeated...??

    • Harry Smeltzer
      And here there be monsters. Generally known and accepted facts are one thing (such as the date Ft. Sumter was fired upon by artillery near Charleston).
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 3, 2005
      • 0 Attachment

        And here there be monsters.

         

        Generally known and accepted facts are one thing (such as the date Ft. Sumter was fired upon by artillery near Charleston).  Generally known and accepted folklore is another.

         

        Sadly, there are plenty of accepted facts that can be traced to an earlier writer’s opinion.  That’s why any writer must be careful in identifying his/her opinion as such, and in citing as a reference another writer’s opinion.

         

        In fact, in the book chat last night Steve and I researched the sources of one passage of the author, to discover he asserted as fact an incident that was not proven to have occurred in his cited sources.  I’m sure that, somewhere out there, there is an article or book in which its author makes the same assertion, and cites this work as his source.  The more “respected” or at least “accepted” the author, the more likely his transgressions will be multiplied by others.

         

        Harry

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: M. E. Heatherington [mailto:meheath@...]
        Sent:
        Monday, January 03, 2005 11:52 AM
        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: Re: Books, one more time

         

        After a while, you will learn what are the generally-known-and-accepted FACTS that do not need to be cited.  You will, I suspect, also learn that no THEORY (argument, thesis, supposition) should ever go un-cited.

         

        Regards,

        Madelon H

         

         

         


           Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:39:33 -0000
           From: "tristan4th" <tristan4th@...>
        Subject: Re: Books



        I hate to add on to this discussion, because I'm eager to get back to
        learning battles & the war...But one more "bone-headed" question for
        amatuer writers like myself..You, Mr. Powell being in the library
        field especially...With so so much that has been written, the
        question, how does one not help but "perform" some form
        of "plagiarism"? This has always been something that I try to
        avoid...But so much has been repeated...??

         

      • tristan4th
        Thankyou Madelon very much...that is nice simple rule ...As we continue...I m sure I ll be asking more! Sincerely Your Humble Servant, 2nd Lt./Partisan
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 3, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Thankyou Madelon very much...that is nice simple "rule"...As we
          continue...I'm sure I'll be asking more!
          Sincerely Your Humble Servant,
          2nd Lt./Partisan Ranger,..Steve....--- In
          civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "M. E. Heatherington" <meheath@m...>
          wrote:
          > Dear "tristan4th":
          >
          > Please allow me one more pass at "Books," or more precisely at
          citations.
          >
          > What you are asking are wonderful questions -- truly. Not joking
          here. These are precisely the kinds of questions that professionals-
          in-training, or interested amateurs, or anyone who wants to do
          serious, responsible work that is respected by other knowledgeable
          people in her/his field, MUST ask. If a person does NOT ask, and
          does NOT attempt to learn how to answer, questions about how, when,
          why, and where to cite, then that person, I believe, is not really
          perceptive or responsible enough to grapple honorably with historical
          material. So keep asking.
          >
          > Although I believe that there is no ONE right answer to the
          questions about citation, here is a rule of thumb that I use in my
          own research and when trying to help students learn how to do
          research, too. It is not so different from Dave Powell's, to wit: If
          I did not think of it, then I must cite the author who gave me the
          idea. That's all there is to it -- surprisingly simple, if a person
          is honorable and honest with him/herself. Plagiarism is simple, too:
          it's the presenting of something that was NOT originally yours as if
          it WERE yours. Think of plagiarism as theft and you will not be far
          wrong.
          >
          > After a while, you will learn what are the generally-known-and-
          accepted FACTS that do not need to be cited. You will, I suspect,
          also learn that no THEORY (argument, thesis, supposition) should ever
          go un-cited.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Madelon H
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          ------------
          >
          > Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:39:33 -0000
          > From: "tristan4th" <tristan4th@y...>
          > Subject: Re: Books
          >
          >
          >
          > I hate to add on to this discussion, because I'm eager to get back
          to
          > learning battles & the war...But one more "bone-headed" question
          for
          > amatuer writers like myself..You, Mr. Powell being in the library
          > field especially...With so so much that has been written, the
          > question, how does one not help but "perform" some form
          > of "plagiarism"? This has always been something that I try to
          > avoid...But so much has been repeated...??
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.