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Perryville, KY

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  • Art Bagley
    Greetings Western Theater Enthusiasts... Have visited here for a while and posted intermitently; searched the archives for discussions on the battle @
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 1, 2004
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      Greetings Western Theater Enthusiasts...

      Have visited here for a while and posted intermitently; searched the
      archives for discussions on the battle @ Perryville, Kentucky but
      found very little. Is this a battle that's "old hat" on this site?
      Just wondering.

      I just recently "discovered" this overlooked battle, have read the
      Hafendorfer and Noe books [liked the Noe book better, still need to
      read THE CIVIL WAR IN KENTUCKY by Kent Masterson Brown], and even
      want to wargame it [6mm miniatures, Fire & Fury rules -- there are
      some scenarios in various magazines, but terrain maps are inaccurate
      in comparison to those in Hafendorfer and Noe -- it's pretty
      difficult terrain!]

      Anyhow, Perryville intrigues me and I'll have to refresh my memory
      by rereading then start something here. Anybody game?

      Art B.
    • Tom Mix
      Art, If you are looking for a good table top war game on it, try Perryville by The Gamers. It is excellent. I was at the battle field about 3 years ago and
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 1, 2004
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        Art,
        If you are looking for a good table top war game on it, try "Perryville"
        by The Gamers. It is excellent. I was at the battle field about 3 years
        ago and had a great time with the guide who showed me some very
        interesting sites.
        Tom Mix

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Art Bagley [mailto:abagley@...]
        Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 5:00 PM
        To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [civilwarwest] Perryville, KY

        Greetings Western Theater Enthusiasts...

        Have visited here for a while and posted intermitently; searched the
        archives for discussions on the battle @ Perryville, Kentucky but
        found very little. Is this a battle that's "old hat" on this site?
        Just wondering.

        I just recently "discovered" this overlooked battle, have read the
        Hafendorfer and Noe books [liked the Noe book better, still need to
        read THE CIVIL WAR IN KENTUCKY by Kent Masterson Brown], and even
        want to wargame it [6mm miniatures, Fire & Fury rules -- there are
        some scenarios in various magazines, but terrain maps are inaccurate
        in comparison to those in Hafendorfer and Noe -- it's pretty
        difficult terrain!]

        Anyhow, Perryville intrigues me and I'll have to refresh my memory
        by rereading then start something here. Anybody game?

        Art B.






        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • DPowell334@AOL.COM
        In a message dated 8/1/2004 5:46:05 PM Central Daylight Time, abagley@ut.edu ... Art, I think the Ken Noe book is the best of the bunch. A great battle, and
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 1, 2004
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          In a message dated 8/1/2004 5:46:05 PM Central Daylight Time, abagley@... writes:


          Greetings Western Theater Enthusiasts...

          Have visited here for a while and posted intermitently; searched the
          archives for discussions on the battle @ Perryville, Kentucky but
          found very little. Is this a battle that's "old hat" on this site?
          Just wondering.

          I just recently "discovered" this overlooked battle, have read the
          Hafendorfer and Noe books [liked the Noe book better, still need to
          read THE CIVIL WAR IN KENTUCKY by Kent Masterson Brown], and even
          want to wargame it [6mm miniatures, Fire &Fury rules -- there are
          some scenarios in various magazines, but terrain maps are inaccurate
          in comparison to those in Hafendorfer and Noe -- it's pretty
          difficult terrain!]

          Anyhow, Perryville intrigues me and I'll have to refresh my memory
          by rereading then start something here. Anybody game?

          Art B.






          Art,

          I think the Ken Noe book is the best of the bunch. A great battle, and almost a virgin park, which is rare, even though the State only has a hunk of the field.

          I do game, BTW, but not with lead:) I designed a game on Perryville some years ago, cardboard-type, at the brigade level - 200 yards per hex.

          The terrain is indeed interesting, but not that difficult, especially with the first rate maps in Ken's book.

          Dave Powell
        • DPowell334@AOL.COM
          In a message dated 8/1/2004 5:30:10 PM Central Daylight Time, ... Art, that would be my game, this came thru just as I finished typing. Tom, Who was your guide
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 1, 2004
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            In a message dated 8/1/2004 5:30:10 PM Central Daylight Time, tmix@... writes:


            Art,
            If you are looking for a good table top war game on it, try "Perryville"
            by The Gamers. It is excellent. I was at the battle field about 3 years
            ago and had a great time with the guide who showed me some very
            interesting sites.
            Tom Mix




            Art,

            that would be my game, this came thru just as I finished typing.

            Tom,

            Who was your guide - the park Historian, Kurt? Great guy.

            Dave Powell
          • Tom Mix
            Dave, Unfortunately I can t recall the gentleman s name nor locate his card. He was recommended to me by someone in the gift shop. They showed where his office
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 1, 2004
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              Dave,

              Unfortunately I can’t recall the gentleman’s name nor locate his card.  He was recommended to me by someone in the gift shop. They showed where his office was near the shop. If I recall correctly he was a retired military officer. An older gentleman. Since I have a disability license plate he had me drive all over the field. I’m sure we violated a few rules but he said not worry about it so I didn’t. He was very nice and very knowledgeable. I am embarrassed to admit that his name and card have escaped me. Later we left the battlefield and he directed me to a CSA grave yard that is a ways from the park area and quite isolated. It was quite moving. If I remember correctly, they had just bought control of the site. With out his guidance, it would never have been as enjoyable.

              Does this sound like Kurt, Dave?

              Tom

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: DPowell334@... [mailto:DPowell334@...]
              Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 6:53 PM
              To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Perryville, KY

               

              In a message dated 8/1/2004 5:30:10 PM Central Daylight Time, tmix@... writes:



              Art,
              If you are looking for a good table top war game on it, try "Perryville"
              by The Gamers. It is excellent. I was at the battle field about 3 years
              ago and had a great time with the guide who showed me some very
              interesting sites.
              Tom Mix




              Art,

              that would be my game, this came thru just as I finished typing.

              Tom,

              Who was your guide - the park Historian, Kurt? Great guy.

              Dave Powell


            • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/1/2004 6:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmix@insightbb.com writes: Anyhow, Perryville intrigues me and I ll have to refresh my memory by
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 1, 2004
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                In a message dated 8/1/2004 6:30:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, tmix@... writes:
                Anyhow, Perryville intrigues me and I'll have to refresh my memory
                by rereading then start something here. Anybody game?

                Art B.
                Not only Perryville Art, but also the battle of Richmond, KY.  The best book on that battle is "Where the Ripe Pears Fell."  It is only about thirty-five miles between Perryville and Richmond.  Two separate battles yet so close, and still, in a sense, tied to each other.
                 
                JEJ
              • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
                In a message dated 8/1/2004 7:53:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, DPowell334@AOL.COM writes: Who was your guide - the park Historian, Kurt? Great guy. Dave Powell
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 1, 2004
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                  In a message dated 8/1/2004 7:53:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, DPowell334@... writes:
                  Who was your guide - the park Historian, Kurt? Great guy.

                  Dave Powell
                  I met Kurt through Susan (CitznComp) and I agree, he is a great guy.  Susan also is another excellent person to act as a guide for Perryville.  You can always get ahold of her by calling Shaker Village where she is one of the supervisors.  She also tours the state talking to elementary kids not only on Shaker Village, but also on the Civil War and is well known in that area's Round Table.
                   
                  Wayne
                • DPowell334@AOL.COM
                  In a message dated 8/1/2004 7:29:21 PM Central Daylight Time, ... No, but I think I have met the gentleman you are describing. It sounds like a good tour. Kurt
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 2, 2004
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                    In a message dated 8/1/2004 7:29:21 PM Central Daylight Time, tmix@... writes:

                    Does this sound like Kurt, Dave?

                    No, but I think I have met the gentleman you are describing. It sounds like a good tour.

                    Kurt works for the park, but things are sometimes so quiet there that he can sneak out onto the field.

                    Dave Powell
                  • mobile_96
                    Does this sound like Kurt Kurt is much younger. The older gentleman doing tours a couple years ago was retired Navy. And I too am unable to remember his name
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 4, 2004
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                      "Does this sound like Kurt"
                      Kurt is much younger. The older gentleman doing tours a couple years
                      ago was retired Navy. And I too am unable to remember his name or find
                      his card. He was semi-retired from tours because of trouble with his
                      legs. IIRC said he was in his mid 70's. I found his pic. in some film
                      I finally had developed over the weekend. Will continue looking for
                      his card.
                      Anyway, he gave a grand tour for me in '02, taking me across the river
                      to Bragg's headquarters and the stream behind Bragg's HQ, and then to
                      the same Confederate burial spot. Before the day was out he got me
                      onto the property alongside Dug Road and said to go ahead and take a
                      walk down it. I did get some pics which will shortly be appearing on
                      my website. To date, still not sure I really had permission to walk
                      either site, but did get a few photos.
                      I've read both Ken's books on Perryville. For history use both, for
                      maps I prefer Hafendorfer's. Also read War in Kentucy by McDonough,
                      and parts of the OR's. Last year, when I visited with a friend of
                      mine, we split the field into 2 parts and spend 1 day on each half,
                      reading from both books and the OR's as we walked the ground. Did get
                      to spend some time with Kurt, looking for the site of a cemetery just
                      off the main battle area.
                      Was trying to help trace the path of the 121 OVI for someone doing a
                      regimental history.
                      I also enjoyed "When The Ripe Pears Fell" but todate have not run over
                      to visit the Richmond area. Maybe on another trip, although after 3
                      I'm not in a big hurry to go back.
                      For anyone going besure to try and include Bardstown as part of the
                      trip. They have a excellent CW musuem, and are building up a Frontier
                      Village. I have a few pics of the village on my website also, if
                      anyone is interesting in viewing them at http://mobile96.com
                      Chuck in Il.
                    • GnrlJEJohnston@aol.com
                      In a message dated 8/4/2004 11:16:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, carpmaster@colint.com writes: I also enjoyed When The Ripe Pears Fell but todate have not run
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 5, 2004
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                        In a message dated 8/4/2004 11:16:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, carpmaster@... writes:
                        I also enjoyed "When The Ripe Pears Fell" but todate have not run over
                        to visit the Richmond area.
                        If you have a copy of this book, hang on to it.  They are harder to find than teeth on a chicken, and there is no plan whatsoever to print any more copies.  I would venture to say, that someday, they will be quite valuable for it is not only the best for information on the Battle of Richmond, it is the only book written on that battle.  For those that are not aware, that is the battle that Cleburne got shot in the mouth and as a result, grew a beard to hide the scars.
                         
                        JEJ
                      • philbuckner
                        I was able to visit Perryville last month during the Kentucky Civil War Heritage Trail. I think it was Kurt I met at the visitors center. He gave me his card
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 5, 2004
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                          I was able to visit Perryville last month during the Kentucky Civil
                          War Heritage Trail. I think it was Kurt I met at the visitors
                          center. He gave me his card and I was going to contact him about
                          something by e-mail...naturally, I seem to have lost it.

                          Since I was there the day before the scheduled activities, I had the
                          battlefield almost to myself. Just walking around and following the
                          movements of both armies was stirring, and a bit eerie since few
                          visitors were around.

                          They have just purchased a section of land that contains the Dye
                          house, General S.B. Buckner's headquarters. It is not open to the
                          public yet, but they gave me permission to go up to the house and
                          take some pictures. Couldn't go inside, but I was glad they let me
                          go at all since I had to climb a gate to get there!

                          I grew up not far from Perryville and cannot believe I have not been
                          there more than I have. A much more significant battle than usually
                          credited. Definitely a high water mark for the Confederacy in the
                          West, IMO.

                          I also made it to Mill Springs. That's also an interesting battle
                          and deserves more attention than it usually gets.

                          Phil

                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "mobile_96" <carpmaster@c...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > "Does this sound like Kurt"
                          > Kurt is much younger. The older gentleman doing tours a couple years
                          > ago was retired Navy. And I too am unable to remember his name or
                          find
                          > his card. He was semi-retired from tours because of trouble with his
                          > legs. IIRC said he was in his mid 70's. I found his pic. in some
                          film
                          > I finally had developed over the weekend. Will continue looking for
                          > his card.
                          > Anyway, he gave a grand tour for me in '02, taking me across the
                          river
                          > to Bragg's headquarters and the stream behind Bragg's HQ, and then
                          to
                          > the same Confederate burial spot. Before the day was out he got me
                          > onto the property alongside Dug Road and said to go ahead and take a
                          > walk down it. I did get some pics which will shortly be appearing on
                          > my website. To date, still not sure I really had permission to walk
                          > either site, but did get a few photos.
                          > I've read both Ken's books on Perryville. For history use both, for
                          > maps I prefer Hafendorfer's. Also read War in Kentucy by McDonough,
                          > and parts of the OR's. Last year, when I visited with a friend of
                          > mine, we split the field into 2 parts and spend 1 day on each half,
                          > reading from both books and the OR's as we walked the ground. Did
                          get
                          > to spend some time with Kurt, looking for the site of a cemetery
                          just
                          > off the main battle area.
                          > Was trying to help trace the path of the 121 OVI for someone doing a
                          > regimental history.
                          > I also enjoyed "When The Ripe Pears Fell" but todate have not run
                          over
                          > to visit the Richmond area. Maybe on another trip, although after 3
                          > I'm not in a big hurry to go back.
                          > For anyone going besure to try and include Bardstown as part of the
                          > trip. They have a excellent CW musuem, and are building up a
                          Frontier
                          > Village. I have a few pics of the village on my website also, if
                          > anyone is interesting in viewing them at http://mobile96.com
                          > Chuck in Il.
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