Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Real Cavalry VS Real Dragoons... Something more...

Expand Messages
  • James L. Choron
    Mike, Being a Texan, I m fairly up on the Mexican War. The reason I mentioned it was because I know of several instances where cavalry, both United States
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 2, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Mike,
       
      Being a Texan, I'm fairly up on the Mexican War. The reason I mentioned it was because I know of several instances where cavalry, both United States regular troops and Texas Rangers, broke up charges by lancers and compeltely routed them, even though outnumbered significantly, simply because the Rangers and U.S. troops were armed with pistols.
       
      I can see where the 6th would take lances, because there was no other option, but I can't see them choosing that weapon as a "first choice". I would also tend to wonder how long the lances remained in service, once better weapons came available.
       
      Jim
    • NPeters102@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/2/2004 10:30:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, lordjim@rol.ru writes: I would also tend to wonder how long the lances remained in service, once
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 3, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        In a message dated 4/2/2004 10:30:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, lordjim@... writes:
        I would also tend to wonder how long the lances remained in service, once better weapons came available.
        Jim:
         
        The lances of the 6th PA Cavalry were exchanged for Sharps carbines prior to Gettysburg. Tom Smith of the unit wrote the following in a 2 June 1863 letter to his brother:
         
        "The regiment have turned in their lances and ordered carbines."
         
        The full letter is found in "We Have it Damned Hard Out Here" The Civil War Letters of Thomas W. Smith, 6th Pennsylvania Cavalry," edited by Eric Wittenberg.
         
         
        Sincerely,

        Mike Peters
        npeters102@...
      • jblake47
        One must also remember that the armament of the American Plains Indian consisted mostly of lance and bow. While there is a lot of discussion on this, it is a
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 3, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          One must also remember that the armament of the American Plains
          Indian consisted mostly of lance and bow. While there is a lot of
          discussion on this, it is a known fact that the Plains Indians were
          one of the best light cavalry ever produced in the world. One of
          the main reasons the Plains were the last to be conquered was
          because these horsemen could outfight the whites on most occasions.

          Inroads to the plains began in the southwest with the Texans moving
          into Apache and Commanche territories, somethings the Mexicans
          couldn't do. As they did so, they quickly found out that the
          armament they carried was inappropriate for the type of warfare the
          Indians capitalized upon. Once a single shot rifle or pistol was
          discharged, the person was unarmed for quite some time. In the
          meantime a well trained warrier could have as many as 3 - 4 arrows
          in the air at the same time. A definite advantage of firepower.
          The lance was the coup de gras to save arrows when the enemy had
          fired their weapon.

          The most significant change in plains warfare occured with the
          multiple round handgun. The Texas Rangers quickly found out that
          this weapon at least put them on equal footing with the superior
          weaponry of the Indian. Walker even went so far as to get his hands
          on as many revolvers that were available throughout the US,
          traveling east to collect as many as were available. He even
          designed one for specific use from the Colt Mfg company which was
          heavy enough to be used as a club when emptied.

          Only when the handgun was developed could the full use of cavalry be
          attained. This applied with the saber in Civil War combat and as
          time went on specialty handguns were developed to improve the life
          expectancy of the trooper. The LaMat was a classic example of such
          a weapon. It was too heavy to carry on a belt and had to be carried
          in a saddle holster. It fired 9 rounds of ball and a 20 guage
          shotgun round. This along with other side-arms began to change the
          tactics of cavalry operations. This was something that had been
          learned from the Texans the the earlier years dealing with the
          plains Indians. Off horseback, the shortened, repeating carbine
          held an advantage. The increase in firepower against mounted enemy
          again changed the face of the cavalry. The Lancers were on their
          way out as were the traditional saber armed troopers. Being mounted
          offered a quick manuvering ability, but until small, repeating
          weapons were developed, limited them the increased firepower of the
          enemy.

          Jeff

          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "James L. Choron"
          <lordjim@r...> wrote:
          > Mike,
          >
          > Being a Texan, I'm fairly up on the Mexican War. The reason I
          mentioned it was because I know of several instances where cavalry,
          both United States regular troops and Texas Rangers, broke up
          charges by lancers and compeltely routed them, even though
          outnumbered significantly, simply because the Rangers and U.S.
          troops were armed with pistols.
          >
          > I can see where the 6th would take lances, because there was no
          other option, but I can't see them choosing that weapon as a "first
          choice". I would also tend to wonder how long the lances remained in
          service, once better weapons came available.
          >
          > Jim
        • Mark Peters
          ... Don t patronise. War is not romantic, and if you have that vision ...
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 5, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, John Beatty <jdbeatty.geo@y...>
            wrote:
            > >The last cavalry charge in Europe, that I know of,
            > was by the Poles in an attempt to halt German tanks
            > in 1939.
            >
            > WAYYY off topic...the Polish cavalry that attacked the
            > German panzers were heavy infantry on horseback backed
            > by howitzers. The romantic vision most of us have
            > from that incident ain't quite right.

            Don't patronise. War is not romantic, and if you have that
            vision ...
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.