Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

General George H. Thomas

Expand Messages
  • Bagtown@altavista.com
    I hope I am not at of place here but I am going to assume its ok to put a post here inquiring about General Thomas (I am a relatively new student to the
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 3, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      I hope I am not at of place here but I am going to assume its ok to
      put a post here inquiring about General Thomas (I am a relatively new
      student to the American Civil War). I just finished a magazine
      artilcle on this man and it appears to me he was very underated. What
      I would like to get some feedback on if possible is I would like to
      find a decent biography of this man. Also I would like to find a good
      book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely Richard J. Karns
    • Don Plezia
      Go to:- http://www.aotc.net/ and you ll find all you want to know. Your assumption that he was under-rated is correct. The man was without doubt the best
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 3, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        Go to:- http://www.aotc.net/

        and you'll find all you want to know. Your assumption that he was
        under-rated is correct. The man was without doubt the best General in
        the Civil War, including Lee!

        Don Plezia

        Cordially,


        D. W. Plezia
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <Bagtown@...>
        To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:23 AM
        Subject: [civilwarwest] General George H. Thomas


        > I hope I am not at of place here but I am going to assume its ok to
        > put a post here inquiring about General Thomas (I am a relatively new
        > student to the American Civil War). I just finished a magazine
        > artilcle on this man and it appears to me he was very underated. What
        > I would like to get some feedback on if possible is I would like to
        > find a decent biography of this man. Also I would like to find a good
        > book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely Richard J. Karns
        >
        >
        > -------------------------- eGroups
        Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
        > eGroups eLerts
        > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
        > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/14182/_/975853391/
        > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_
        ->
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Bagtown@altavista.com
        ... in ... Thanks Much excellent website I truly was disturbed when I read of some of General Thomas mistreatment at the hands of his superiors and peers. The
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 3, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, "Don Plezia" <oneplez@e...> wrote:
          > Go to:- http://www.aotc.net/
          >
          > and you'll find all you want to know. Your assumption that he was
          > under-rated is correct. The man was without doubt the best General
          in
          > the Civil War, including Lee!
          >
          > Don Plezia
          >
          > Cordially,
          >
          >
          > D. W. Plezia
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <Bagtown@a...>
          > To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
          > Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:23 AM
          > Subject: [civilwarwest] General George H. Thomas

          Thanks Much excellent website I truly was disturbed when I read of
          some of General Thomas' mistreatment at the hands of his superiors
          and peers. The Union was genuinely lucky to have had such a man. From
          what I have read he was a soldiers general and a great strategic as
          well as tactical commander. Once again thanks for the website.
          Sincerely Richard J. Karns
          >
          >
          > > I hope I am not at of place here but I am going to assume its ok
          to
          > > put a post here inquiring about General Thomas (I am a relatively
          new
          > > student to the American Civil War). I just finished a magazine
          > > artilcle on this man and it appears to me he was very underated.
          What
          > > I would like to get some feedback on if possible is I would like
          to
          > > find a decent biography of this man. Also I would like to find a
          good
          > > book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely Richard J. Karns
          > >
          > >
          > > -------------------------- eGroups
          > Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
          > > eGroups eLerts
          > > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
          > > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/14182/_/975853391/
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
          ---_
          > ->
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • Stepehen D. Wakefield
          You are definitely at the right place. Although we have had some spats here in the past as to exactly how great Thomas was as a general. I do think you will
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 3, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            You are definitely at the right place. Although we have had some "spats"
            here in the past as to exactly how great Thomas was as a general. I do think
            you will find that all here are of the opinion that Thomas was at the least
            one of the very best commanders of the war.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <Bagtown@...>
            To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 8:23 AM
            Subject: [civilwarwest] General George H. Thomas


            > I hope I am not at of place here but I am going to assume its ok to
            > put a post here inquiring about General Thomas (I am a relatively new
            > student to the American Civil War). I just finished a magazine
            > artilcle on this man and it appears to me he was very underated. What
            > I would like to get some feedback on if possible is I would like to
            > find a decent biography of this man. Also I would like to find a good
            > book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely Richard J. Karns
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Geoff Blankenmeyer
            IMO, the best treatments of Thomas and the AoC are the original treatments. Keep in mind that modern historians have the luxury of hindsight to reconstruct
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 3, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              IMO, the best treatments of Thomas and the AoC are the original
              treatments. Keep in mind that modern historians have the
              luxury of hindsight to reconstruct the annals listed below, but the
              ideas in the main from each of these three texts remains intact.
              Unfortunately all are out of print and you may have to travel to a
              well stocked library to find each. Good luck. The books I mentioned
              are:

              Bickham, William D. Rosecrans' Campaign with the Fourteenth Army
              Corps, or the Army of the Cumberland; Moore, Wilstach, Keys & Co.,
              1863.

              Fitch, John. Annals of the Army of the Cumberland; Lippincott, 1864.

              Van Horne, Thomas B. History of the Army of the Cumberland, Its
              Organization, Campaigns, and Battles. Written at the Request of
              Major General George H. Thomas; Cincinnati, 1875.

              Geoff
            • David Mercado
              ... like to find a good book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely Richard J. Karns
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 3, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, Bagtown@a... wrote:
                > I would like to find a decent biography of this man. Also I would
                like to find a good book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely
                Richard J. Karns<

                A fairly comprehensive annotated bibliography on Thomas is available
                at: http://home.att.net/~dmercado/biograph.htm

                Also there is some information on how to obtain some of the out of
                print books. Best regards, Dave
              • ppcattyrph@aol.com
                Richard, I have read three bios of Geo Thomas. You bet this man was underrated. I suggest Frank Palumbo s GEORGE HENRY THOMAS, THE DEPENDABLE GENERAL and
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 3, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  Richard,
                  I have read three bios of Geo Thomas. You bet this man was underrated.
                  I suggest Frank Palumbo's GEORGE HENRY THOMAS, THE DEPENDABLE GENERAL and
                  Cleaves' ROCK OF CHICKAMAUGA.
                  regards,
                  Peter Cohron
                • Don Plezia
                  Peter! Read Francis McKinney s Education in Violence . It s the best. Then read Grant s and Sherman s Memior s, to see how they slandered him to build up
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 3, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Peter!

                    Read Francis McKinney's "Education in Violence". It's the best. Then
                    read Grant's and Sherman's "Memior"s, to see how they slandered him to
                    build up themselves.

                    Then go to Bob Redman's site:- http://www.aotc.net/ and read Thomas
                    Budd Van Horne's Biography "Life of General George H. Thomas". This was
                    the only author able to use Thomas's personal paper's before he died and
                    the were destroyed by his wife per his wishes.

                    Don

                    Cordially,


                    D. W. Plezia
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <ppcattyrph@...>
                    To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
                    Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:00 PM
                    Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] General George H. Thomas


                    > Richard,
                    > I have read three bios of Geo Thomas. You bet this man was
                    underrated.
                    > I suggest Frank Palumbo's GEORGE HENRY THOMAS, THE DEPENDABLE
                    GENERAL and
                    > Cleaves' ROCK OF CHICKAMAUGA.
                    > regards,
                    > Peter Cohron
                    >
                    > -------------------------- eGroups
                    Sponsor -------------------------~-~>
                    > eGroups eLerts
                    > It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
                    > http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/14182/_/975895410/
                    > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_
                    ->
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • ppcattyrph@aol.com
                    Don, Thanks for the recommendations. Let me also suggest a recent bio of Sherman, THE WHITE TECUMSEH by Hirshson. he plays up the friendship between Sherman
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 4, 2000
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Don,
                      Thanks for the recommendations. Let me also suggest a recent bio of
                      Sherman, THE WHITE TECUMSEH by Hirshson. he plays up the friendship between
                      Sherman and Thomas, plays down the enmity. Is this revisionist history, or a
                      setting of things right?
                      regards,
                      Peter Cohron
                    • Brad Schall
                      David; Thank you for your website on George Thomas. In San Francisco there was a Thomas GAR post along with the GAR memorial in the National Cemetery deciated
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 4, 2000
                      • 0 Attachment
                        David;
                        Thank you for your website on George Thomas. In San Francisco there was a
                        Thomas GAR post along with the GAR memorial in the National Cemetery
                        deciated by the Thomas GAR post. My unit does Memorial day services in that
                        GAR post honor.
                        Great website.
                        Brad Schall

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: David Mercado <dmercado@...>
                        To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 1:10 PM
                        Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: General George H. Thomas


                        > --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, Bagtown@a... wrote:
                        > > I would like to find a decent biography of this man. Also I would
                        > like to find a good book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely
                        > Richard J. Karns<
                        >
                        > A fairly comprehensive annotated bibliography on Thomas is available
                        > at: http://home.att.net/~dmercado/biograph.htm
                        >
                        > Also there is some information on how to obtain some of the out of
                        > print books. Best regards, Dave
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • David Woodbury
                        ... As others have said, Thomas is almost universally regarded as one of the best general officers of the war. You ll be well served to do a lot of reading on
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 4, 2000
                        • 0 Attachment
                          At 4:37 PM +0000 12/3/00, Bagtown@... wrote:
                          >Thanks Much excellent website I truly was disturbed when I read of
                          >some of General Thomas' mistreatment at the hands of his superiors
                          >and peers.

                          As others have said, Thomas is almost universally regarded as one of
                          the best general officers of the war. You'll be well served to do a
                          lot of reading on the man if you're interested, and form your own
                          opinions. There is an unfortunate tendency among some Thomas admirers
                          to exalt him by tearing others down. Specifically, there is an
                          inclination to exaggeratedly denigrate Grant and Sherman by way of
                          casting Thomas in a better light. Classic examples of this kind of
                          Thomas hagiography are Buell's book, "Warrior Generals," and articles
                          such as "Politics in the Union army at the Battle for Chattanooga" at
                          the web site to which you were first directed.

                          All of this is to say it pays to keep reading.

                          David
                        • aldrichr@dsmo.com
                          ... there was a ... services in that ... would ... available ... My subjective take on Thomas, based on what little I have read (mostly Buell s Warrior
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 6, 2000
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, "Brad Schall" <bradschall@h...>
                            wrote:
                            > David;
                            > Thank you for your website on George Thomas. In San Francisco
                            there was a
                            > Thomas GAR post along with the GAR memorial in the National Cemetery
                            > deciated by the Thomas GAR post. My unit does Memorial day
                            services in that
                            > GAR post honor.
                            > Great website.
                            > Brad Schall
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: David Mercado <dmercado@w...>
                            > To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
                            > Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 1:10 PM
                            > Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: General George H. Thomas
                            >
                            >
                            > > --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, Bagtown@a... wrote:
                            > > > I would like to find a decent biography of this man. Also I
                            would
                            > > like to find a good book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely
                            > > Richard J. Karns<
                            > >
                            > > A fairly comprehensive annotated bibliography on Thomas is
                            available
                            > > at: http://home.att.net/~dmercado/biograph.htm
                            > >
                            > > Also there is some information on how to obtain some of the out of
                            > > print books. Best regards, Dave
                            > >
                            > >
                            My subjective take on Thomas, based on what little I have read (mostly
                            Buell's "Warrior Generals") is that he was a perfectionist, and his
                            perfectionist style clashed with Grant's "just do it" style. Who was
                            right from a military perspective? I'm not really qualified to say.
                            Regardless, Grant was under tremendous political pressure on both
                            occasions when he clashed with Thomas - first, the minor clash in the
                            Chattanooga campaign, and second, the major clash over the Nashville
                            campaign. Come to think of it, when was Grant NOT under tremendous
                            political pressure? But in this theater, the Washington leadership
                            was extremely nervous about having a Confederate army on the loose in
                            Tennessee. All the careful planning that marks Thomas as a pioneer
                            of modern military methods inevitably took time. The Washington
                            leadership, whether correctly or not, felt that time was not on their
                            side. IMO, Thomas' deliberate approach to preparing his army for
                            battle could not have been better designed to remind the federal
                            leadership of McClellan's "slows" and generate impatience.
                            I feel that the clash of leadership styles (as well as personalities,
                            as Buell discusses) and Thomas' seeming tonedeafness to political
                            exigencies explain their rocky relationship more than any conspiracy
                            or deliberate attempt by Grant to prevent Thomas from rising. All
                            this is my subjective opinion, based on the little that I have read.

                            Bob Aldrich
                          • aldrichr@dsmo.com
                            ... there was a ... services in that ... would ... available ... My subjective take on Thomas, based on what little I have read (mostly Buell s Warrior
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 6, 2000
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, "Brad Schall" <bradschall@h...>
                              wrote:
                              > David;
                              > Thank you for your website on George Thomas. In San Francisco
                              there was a
                              > Thomas GAR post along with the GAR memorial in the National Cemetery
                              > deciated by the Thomas GAR post. My unit does Memorial day
                              services in that
                              > GAR post honor.
                              > Great website.
                              > Brad Schall
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: David Mercado <dmercado@w...>
                              > To: <civilwarwest@egroups.com>
                              > Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 1:10 PM
                              > Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: General George H. Thomas
                              >
                              >
                              > > --- In civilwarwest@egroups.com, Bagtown@a... wrote:
                              > > > I would like to find a decent biography of this man. Also I
                              would
                              > > like to find a good book on The Army of the Cumberland. Sincerely
                              > > Richard J. Karns<
                              > >
                              > > A fairly comprehensive annotated bibliography on Thomas is
                              available
                              > > at: http://home.att.net/~dmercado/biograph.htm
                              > >
                              > > Also there is some information on how to obtain some of the out of
                              > > print books. Best regards, Dave
                              > >
                              > >
                              My subjective take on Thomas, based on what little I have read (mostly
                              Buell's "Warrior Generals") is that he was a perfectionist, and his
                              perfectionist style clashed with Grant's "just do it" style. Who was
                              right from a military perspective? I'm not really qualified to say.
                              Regardless, Grant was under tremendous political pressure on both
                              occasions when he clashed with Thomas - first, the minor clash in the
                              Chattanooga campaign, and second, the major clash over the Nashville
                              campaign. Come to think of it, when was Grant NOT under tremendous
                              political pressure? But in this theater, the Washington leadership
                              was extremely nervous about having a Confederate army on the loose in
                              Tennessee. All the careful planning that marks Thomas as a pioneer
                              of modern military methods inevitably took time. The Washington
                              leadership, whether correctly or not, felt that time was not on their
                              side. IMO, Thomas' deliberate approach to preparing his army for
                              battle could not have been better designed to remind the federal
                              leadership of McClellan's "slows" and generate impatience.
                              I feel that the clash of leadership styles (as well as personalities,
                              as Buell discusses) and Thomas' seeming tonedeafness to political
                              exigencies explain their rocky relationship more than any conspiracy
                              or deliberate attempt by Grant to prevent Thomas from rising. All
                              this is my subjective opinion, based on the little that I have read.

                              Bob Aldrich
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.