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General Sir Arthur Lyon Fremantle

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  • Mark Peters
    I have witten a short summary of Arthur Lyon Fremantle s military career. I hope it proves interesting as a guide to the type of person that this observer of
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 27, 2003
      I have witten a short summary of Arthur Lyon Fremantle's military
      career. I hope it proves interesting as a guide to the type of
      person that this observer of the Confederacy, in early 1863, might
      have been. I suggest that it is at odds with the 'posh buffoon'
      characterised in the film 'Gettysburg'.

      I am aware that some Americans view the British aristocracy with some
      scepticism. I would like to note, that the knighthoods bestowed upon
      Fremantle were for services to the crown. As such, this should be
      viewed as a meritous award, rather than a hereditary title. I would
      also like to note that Fremantle came from a military family and, as
      such, was a professional soldier in the Guards Regiment.


      General Sir Arthur Lyon Fremantle KCMG CB (1835-1901)

      1. Freemantle's Early Life & Career

      Arthur James Lyon Fremantle was born in November 1835, eldest son of
      Major-General John Fremantle. Major-General Fremantle had commanded
      a battalion of the Coldstream Guards, and served in Wellington's
      Peninsular Campaign with distinction. Major-General Fremantle died
      in 1845.

      At 17, Fremantle was commissioned, as an ensign, with the 70th
      Regiment of Foot. He soon transferred to the 52nd Regiment of Foot.
      A year later, he was again transferred. This time, to the Coldstream
      Gurads as ensign and Lieutenant (please see note below). In 1854,
      Fremantle attained promotion to Lieutenant and Captain. By 1860, at
      the age of 25, he was further promoted. This time, to Captain (in
      his Regiment) and Lieutenant Colonel (in the army).

      Later in 1860, he took the post of Assistant Secretary to the
      Governor of Gibraltar. It was in 1862, whilst serving in Gibraltar,
      that he met Raphael Semmes. Despite his sympathies laying with the
      North, due to his recorded opposition of the "South's peculiar
      institution", he took a leave of absence to visit America as
      an 'unofficial observer'.

      2. Fremantle In, and On, the Civil War

      Fremantle arrived in Texas, via Mexico, in April 1863. He then
      proceded through Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee,
      South Carolina, North Carolina and then up to Virginia. He
      encountered many of the prominent southern figures of the time such
      as Davis, Bragg and Lee.

      He, and 'The Times' reporter Charles Lawley, had reached the Army of
      Northern Virginia by mid-June, thus observing the invasion of
      Pennsylvania and Gettysburg.

      After the battle, Fremantle made his way through Federal lines and
      onto new York. He then witnessed the Draft Riots before arriving
      back in England on 15th July 1863. His memoirs of the journey, based
      on entries from his diary, were published the following year.

      The Fremantle Diary observed many of the difficulties facing the
      southern population and their soldiers. He also made cutting
      comments about several leading officers, notably Bragg! However, he
      did commend Davis on the quality of tea served, at their meeting, and
      the hospitality shown by the southern people in general.

      3. Fremantle's Later Career

      He married in September 1863, and continued regimental duties until
      1880. From 1877 to 1880, he was given command of a battalion of the
      Guards. From 1881 to 1882, Fremantle served as ADC on the staff of
      Duke of Cambridge, whereupon he was promoted to the rank of Major
      General. In 1884, he was again given command of a battalion, as part
      of the Sudan expedition. This was an attempt to relieve General
      Gordon, besieged at Khartoum.

      From 1884 to 1885, he first became Governor of North Eastern Sudan,
      took command of the Brigade of Guards and then became Chief of
      Staff. His actions were to earn him a mention in despatches and a CB.

      From 1886, Fremantle served as Deputy Adjutant-General for Militia,
      Yeomany and Volunteers. From 1893 to 1894 he was appointed to the
      command of the Scottish District. He then served as Governor of
      Malta for five years, having been created a KCMG in 1894. On his
      return, in 1898, he was created GCMG.

      He was Justice of the Peace for Middlesex and London, until his death
      on 25th september 1901. He died at 64 years of age.


      Note 1: Due to the seniority of the Guards Regiment, an officer was
      accorded the status of one rank senior to the commission held. Thus
      whilst commissoned as ensign, Fremantle was entitled to be addressed
      as Lieutenant. This practice is not not followed within the British
      Army.
    • hartshje
      Mark, Thank you for your bio. It was interesting and informative. It s been about 20 yrs since I read Killer Angels, so I don t remember how Fremantle was
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 27, 2003
        Mark,

        Thank you for your bio. It was interesting and informative. It's
        been about 20 yrs since I read Killer Angels, so I don't remember how
        Fremantle was portrayed in the book, but I think most of the
        characters were over sentimentalized, which carried over into the
        movies. I was rather sure that the real Fremantle was
        more "soldierly" than what I saw in the movie. One last question
        though; what does "KCMG" and "GCMG" stand for?

        Regards,
        Joe

        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Peters"
        <col_freemantle@y...> wrote:
        > I have witten a short summary of Arthur Lyon Fremantle's military
        > career. I hope it proves interesting as a guide to the type of
        > person that this observer of the Confederacy, in early 1863, might
        > have been. I suggest that it is at odds with the 'posh buffoon'
        > characterised in the film 'Gettysburg'.
        >
        > I am aware that some Americans view the British aristocracy with
        some
        > scepticism. I would like to note, that the knighthoods bestowed
        upon
        > Fremantle were for services to the crown. As such, this should be
        > viewed as a meritous award, rather than a hereditary title. I
        would
        > also like to note that Fremantle came from a military family and,
        as
        > such, was a professional soldier in the Guards Regiment.
        >
        >
        > General Sir Arthur Lyon Fremantle KCMG CB (1835-1901)
        >
        > 1. Freemantle's Early Life & Career
        >
        > Arthur James Lyon Fremantle was born in November 1835, eldest son
        of
        > Major-General John Fremantle. Major-General Fremantle had
        commanded
        > a battalion of the Coldstream Guards, and served in Wellington's
        > Peninsular Campaign with distinction. Major-General Fremantle died
        > in 1845.
        >
        > At 17, Fremantle was commissioned, as an ensign, with the 70th
        > Regiment of Foot. He soon transferred to the 52nd Regiment of
        Foot.
        > A year later, he was again transferred. This time, to the
        Coldstream
        > Gurads as ensign and Lieutenant (please see note below). In 1854,
        > Fremantle attained promotion to Lieutenant and Captain. By 1860,
        at
        > the age of 25, he was further promoted. This time, to Captain (in
        > his Regiment) and Lieutenant Colonel (in the army).
        >
        > Later in 1860, he took the post of Assistant Secretary to the
        > Governor of Gibraltar. It was in 1862, whilst serving in
        Gibraltar,
        > that he met Raphael Semmes. Despite his sympathies laying with the
        > North, due to his recorded opposition of the "South's peculiar
        > institution", he took a leave of absence to visit America as
        > an 'unofficial observer'.
        >
        > 2. Fremantle In, and On, the Civil War
        >
        > Fremantle arrived in Texas, via Mexico, in April 1863. He then
        > proceded through Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee,
        > South Carolina, North Carolina and then up to Virginia. He
        > encountered many of the prominent southern figures of the time such
        > as Davis, Bragg and Lee.
        >
        > He, and 'The Times' reporter Charles Lawley, had reached the Army
        of
        > Northern Virginia by mid-June, thus observing the invasion of
        > Pennsylvania and Gettysburg.
        >
        > After the battle, Fremantle made his way through Federal lines and
        > onto new York. He then witnessed the Draft Riots before arriving
        > back in England on 15th July 1863. His memoirs of the journey,
        based
        > on entries from his diary, were published the following year.
        >
        > The Fremantle Diary observed many of the difficulties facing the
        > southern population and their soldiers. He also made cutting
        > comments about several leading officers, notably Bragg! However,
        he
        > did commend Davis on the quality of tea served, at their meeting,
        and
        > the hospitality shown by the southern people in general.
        >
        > 3. Fremantle's Later Career
        >
        > He married in September 1863, and continued regimental duties until
        > 1880. From 1877 to 1880, he was given command of a battalion of
        the
        > Guards. From 1881 to 1882, Fremantle served as ADC on the staff of
        > Duke of Cambridge, whereupon he was promoted to the rank of Major
        > General. In 1884, he was again given command of a battalion, as
        part
        > of the Sudan expedition. This was an attempt to relieve General
        > Gordon, besieged at Khartoum.
        >
        > From 1884 to 1885, he first became Governor of North Eastern Sudan,
        > took command of the Brigade of Guards and then became Chief of
        > Staff. His actions were to earn him a mention in despatches and a
        CB.
        >
        > From 1886, Fremantle served as Deputy Adjutant-General for Militia,
        > Yeomany and Volunteers. From 1893 to 1894 he was appointed to the
        > command of the Scottish District. He then served as Governor of
        > Malta for five years, having been created a KCMG in 1894. On his
        > return, in 1898, he was created GCMG.
        >
        > He was Justice of the Peace for Middlesex and London, until his
        death
        > on 25th september 1901. He died at 64 years of age.
        >
        >
        > Note 1: Due to the seniority of the Guards Regiment, an officer
        was
        > accorded the status of one rank senior to the commission held.
        Thus
        > whilst commissoned as ensign, Fremantle was entitled to be
        addressed
        > as Lieutenant. This practice is not not followed within the
        British
        > Army.
      • P. B. Jones
        I look forward to Mark s answer on this as well since what I find on the web varies somewhat on exact titles. See:
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 27, 2003
          I look forward to Mark's answer on this as well since what I find on the web varies somewhat on exact titles. 
          See: 
          http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/knighthoods.htm  on Orders of Knighthood as they apply to Military men and
           
          Best regards.
           
          Pat
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: hartshje
          Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:59 PM
          Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: General Sir Arthur Lyon Fremantle

          *snip*
          One last question
          though;  what does "KCMG" and "GCMG" stand for?


        • pbjdesigns
          I replied to this post hours ago, but yahoo tells me I m bouncing big time. Will send my response through the board. Pardon the repetition later should the
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 27, 2003
            I replied to this post hours ago, but yahoo tells me I'm bouncing big
            time. Will send my response through the board. Pardon the
            repetition later should the original ever appear from the deep, dark
            depths of cyberspace. ;)

            I look forward to Mark's answer on this as well since what I find on
            the web varies somewhat on exact titles.
            See:
            http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/knighthoods.htm on Orders
            of Knighthood as they apply to Military men and
            http://www.halifax-
            today.co.uk/specialfeatures/triviatrail/mmm215.html#13

            Best regards.

            Pat




            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hartshje" <Hartshje@a...> wrote:
            > Mark,
            >
            > Thank you for your bio. It was interesting and informative. It's
            > been about 20 yrs since I read Killer Angels, so I don't remember
            how
            > Fremantle was portrayed in the book, but I think most of the
            > characters were over sentimentalized, which carried over into the
            > movies. I was rather sure that the real Fremantle was
            > more "soldierly" than what I saw in the movie. One last question
            > though; what does "KCMG" and "GCMG" stand for?
            >
            > Regards,
            > Joe
          • hartshje
            Pat, Very intriguing site you referenced about Knighthoods. It appears that KCMG stands for Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael and St. George, and
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 27, 2003
              Pat,

              Very intriguing site you referenced about Knighthoods. It appears
              that KCMG stands for Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael and
              St. George, and that GCMG stands for Grand Cross same Order. There
              were (are still?) two Orders, the other being Order of Bath. This
              last sounds like Saturday night at the Walton's residence :-)
              Thanks for listing it.

              Joe

              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "pbjdesigns" <jones@p...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I look forward to Mark's answer on this as well since what I find
              > on the web varies somewhat on exact titles.
              > See:
              > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/knighthoods.htm on
              > Orders of Knighthood as they apply to Military men, and
              > http://www.halifax-
              today.co.uk/specialfeatures/triviatrail/mmm215.html#13
              >
              > Best regards.
              >
              > Pat
              >
              >
              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hartshje" <Hartshje@a...>
              wrote:
              > > Mark,
              > >
              > > Thank you for your bio. It was interesting and informative.
              > > It's been about 20 yrs since I read Killer Angels, so I don't
              > > remember how Fremantle was portrayed in the book, but I think
              > > most of the characters were over sentimentalized, which carried
              > > over into the movies. I was rather sure that the real Fremantle
              > > was more "soldierly" than what I saw in the movie. One last
              > > question though; what does "KCMG" and "GCMG" stand for?
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > > Joe
            • Mark Peters
              ... Joe and Pat, I m pleased that you found the information of some interest. The web sites Pat suggested are Commonwealth, rather than British, and rules are
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 28, 2003
                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hartshje" <Hartshje@a...> wrote:

                Joe and Pat,

                I'm pleased that you found the information of some interest. The web
                sites Pat suggested are Commonwealth, rather than British, and rules
                are a little different with the honours accorded.

                May I suggest the following English web site, that deals with all
                issues of "wealth and snobbery". The two sections that, I believe,
                will provide most use are 'Peerage' and 'Baronetage and Etiquette'.
                It does provide a pretty good description of the history and rewards
                associated with services to the crown.

                http://www.debretts.co.uk/index.html

                I will try to clarify the situation with regards to the awards.
                Fremantle received his CB (Companion of the Bath - 3rd Grade of 'The
                Most Honourable Order of the Bath') for his services in the Sudan. I
                believe that the Bath, named in the title, is related to the spa
                City, of the same name, in the west of England. Very popular with
                the rich during the Georgian era!

                Joe was correct in the full names of the KCMG and GCMG. These would
                have been awarded for his latter administrative duties, on behalf of
                the crown.

                Best wishes,

                Mark



                > Pat,
                >
                > Very intriguing site you referenced about Knighthoods. It appears
                > that KCMG stands for Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael
                and
                > St. George, and that GCMG stands for Grand Cross same Order. There
                > were (are still?) two Orders, the other being Order of Bath. This
                > last sounds like Saturday night at the Walton's residence :-)
                > Thanks for listing it.
                >
                > Joe
                >
                > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "pbjdesigns" <jones@p...>
                wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > I look forward to Mark's answer on this as well since what I find
                > > on the web varies somewhat on exact titles.
                > > See:
                > > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/knighthoods.htm on
                > > Orders of Knighthood as they apply to Military men, and
                > > http://www.halifax-
                > today.co.uk/specialfeatures/triviatrail/mmm215.html#13
                > >
                > > Best regards.
                > >
                > > Pat
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hartshje" <Hartshje@a...>
                > wrote:
                > > > Mark,
                > > >
                > > > Thank you for your bio. It was interesting and informative.
                > > > It's been about 20 yrs since I read Killer Angels, so I don't
                > > > remember how Fremantle was portrayed in the book, but I think
                > > > most of the characters were over sentimentalized, which carried
                > > > over into the movies. I was rather sure that the real
                Fremantle
                > > > was more "soldierly" than what I saw in the movie. One last
                > > > question though; what does "KCMG" and "GCMG" stand for?
                > > >
                > > > Regards,
                > > > Joe
              • hartshje
                Mark, Thank you for responding to our queries. I m always ready to learn about something new and interesting. Two of your replies (identical ones) came
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 28, 2003
                  Mark,

                  Thank you for responding to our queries. I'm always ready to learn
                  about something new and interesting. Two of your replies (identical
                  ones) came through to my private email, which is fine. I tried to
                  reply to you but my email was returned. I will try again at
                  your "mark-peters" address. Some other subjects were included that
                  are not relevant here.

                  Regards,
                  Joe

                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Peters" <mark-peters@m...>
                  wrote:
                  > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hartshje" <Hartshje@a...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Joe and Pat,
                  >
                  > I'm pleased that you found the information of some interest. The
                  web
                  > sites Pat suggested are Commonwealth, rather than British, and
                  rules
                  > are a little different with the honours accorded.
                  >
                  > May I suggest the following English web site, that deals with all
                  > issues of "wealth and snobbery". The two sections that, I believe,
                  > will provide most use are 'Peerage' and 'Baronetage and
                  Etiquette'.
                  > It does provide a pretty good description of the history and
                  rewards
                  > associated with services to the crown.
                  >
                  > http://www.debretts.co.uk/index.html
                  >
                  > I will try to clarify the situation with regards to the awards.
                  > Fremantle received his CB (Companion of the Bath - 3rd Grade
                  of 'The
                  > Most Honourable Order of the Bath') for his services in the Sudan.
                  I
                  > believe that the Bath, named in the title, is related to the spa
                  > City, of the same name, in the west of England. Very popular with
                  > the rich during the Georgian era!
                  >
                  > Joe was correct in the full names of the KCMG and GCMG. These
                  would
                  > have been awarded for his latter administrative duties, on behalf
                  of
                  > the crown.
                  >
                  > Best wishes,
                  >
                  > Mark
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > Pat,
                  > >
                  > > Very intriguing site you referenced about Knighthoods. It
                  appears
                  > > that KCMG stands for Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael
                  > and
                  > > St. George, and that GCMG stands for Grand Cross same Order.
                  There
                  > > were (are still?) two Orders, the other being Order of Bath.
                  This
                  > > last sounds like Saturday night at the Walton's residence :-)
                  > > Thanks for listing it.
                  > >
                  > > Joe
                  > >
                  > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "pbjdesigns" <jones@p...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I look forward to Mark's answer on this as well since what I
                  find
                  > > > on the web varies somewhat on exact titles.
                  > > > See:
                  > > > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/knighthoods.htm on
                  > > > Orders of Knighthood as they apply to Military men, and
                  > > > http://www.halifax-
                  > > today.co.uk/specialfeatures/triviatrail/mmm215.html#13
                  > > >
                  > > > Best regards.
                  > > >
                  > > > Pat
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hartshje" <Hartshje@a...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > > Mark,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thank you for your bio. It was interesting and informative.
                  > > > > It's been about 20 yrs since I read Killer Angels, so I don't
                  > > > > remember how Fremantle was portrayed in the book, but I think
                  > > > > most of the characters were over sentimentalized, which
                  carried
                  > > > > over into the movies. I was rather sure that the real
                  > Fremantle
                  > > > > was more "soldierly" than what I saw in the movie. One last
                  > > > > question though; what does "KCMG" and "GCMG" stand for?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Regards,
                  > > > > Joe
                • seophas@aol.com
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 28, 2003
                  • seophas@aol.com
                    The Order of the Bath is exactly as the name implies. In Norman society members of the peerage were assigned certain tasks in the service of the ruler. The
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 28, 2003
                      The Order of the Bath is exactly as the name implies. In Norman society
                      members
                      of the peerage were assigned certain tasks in the service of the ruler. The
                      most
                      trusted accompanied him while performing his personal needs, thus Knight
                      Companion of the Bath. (I believe the Privy Council has a different derivation)
                      The highest Order is, of course, that of the Garter. Membership is so
                      exclusive
                      that a Garter Knight must die before another is created.
                      An interesting tale is told regarding the creation of this Order by Edward l
                      l l.
                      During a ball a certain Countess is said to have lost one of her garters,
                      causing
                      a great deal of shock to the assemblage. To relieve her discomfort the King
                      picked up the offending strip of cloth and wrapped it around his own thigh,
                      saying
                      "Honi Soit Que Mal Pense" (Evil to he who evil thinks). It is difficult to
                      understand
                      why, in the rather loose morality of those times, the simple dropping of an
                      article
                      of clothing would create a stir. The explanation is that it was a red garter,
                      only
                      worn by the concubine of the leader of a witches coven. By placing it around
                      his
                      thigh Edward was serving notice that this was something the court did not want
                      to involve itself in.
                    • P. B. Jones
                      Thank you, Mark. Not a subject I expected to be encountering on CWWT. ;) I think the link within yours that was most helpful was:
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 28, 2003
                        Thank you, Mark.  Not a subject I expected to be encountering on CWWT.  ;)
                         
                        I think the link within yours that was most helpful was:
                        http://www.debretts.co.uk/etiquette/orders_and_decorations.html concerning British Orders and Decorations.  . 
                         
                        Best regards.
                         
                        Pat
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 4:37 AM
                        Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: General Sir Arthur Lyon Fremantle

                        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hartshje" <Hartshje@a...> wrote:

                        Joe and Pat,

                        I'm pleased that you found the information of some interest.  The web
                        sites Pat suggested are Commonwealth, rather than British, and rules
                        are a little different with the honours accorded.

                        May I suggest the following English web site, that deals with all
                        issues of "wealth and snobbery".  The two sections that, I believe,
                        will provide most use are 'Peerage' and 'Baronetage and Etiquette'. 
                        It does provide a pretty good description of the history and rewards
                        associated with services to the crown.

                        http://www.debretts.co.uk/index.html

                        I will try to clarify the situation with regards to the awards. 
                        Fremantle received his CB (Companion of the Bath - 3rd Grade of 'The
                        Most Honourable Order of the Bath') for his services in the Sudan.  I
                        believe that the Bath, named in the title, is related to the spa
                        City, of the same name, in the west of England.  Very popular with
                        the rich during the Georgian era!

                        Joe was correct in the full names of the KCMG and GCMG.  These would
                        have been awarded for his latter administrative duties, on behalf of
                        the crown.   

                        Best wishes,
                         
                        Mark
                      • pbjdesigns
                        Hope this doesn t/didn t confuse anyone. Obviously it s been bouncing somewhere in cyberspace since August 27th. ... on the web varies somewhat on exact
                        Message 11 of 11 , Sep 7 6:46 PM
                          Hope this doesn't/didn't confuse anyone. Obviously it's been
                          bouncing somewhere in cyberspace since August 27th.

                          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "P. B. Jones" <jones@p...> wrote:
                          > I look forward to Mark's answer on this as well since what I find
                          on the web varies somewhat on exact titles.
                          > See:
                          > http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/knighthoods.htm on
                          Orders of Knighthood as they apply to Military men and
                          > http://www.halifax-
                          today.co.uk/specialfeatures/triviatrail/mmm215.html#13
                          >
                          > Best regards.
                          >
                          > Pat
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: hartshje
                          > To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:59 PM
                          > Subject: [civilwarwest] Re: General Sir Arthur Lyon Fremantle
                          >
                          >
                          > *snip*
                          > One last question
                          > though; what does "KCMG" and "GCMG" stand for?
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