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RE: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

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  • Harry Smeltzer
    Dick, Sherman wrote a letter to his brother John from Memphis dated 9-3-62. The first sentence reads: I have your letter and Still think you are wrong in
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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      Dick,
       
      Sherman wrote a letter to his brother John from Memphis dated 9-3-62.  The first sentence reads:
       
      "I have your letter and Still think you are wrong in saying that Negroes are free & entitled to be treated accordingly by simple declaration of Congress"  This letter is on page 292 of Simpson's "Sherman's Civil War", and is primarily concerned with this topic.
       
      If you can give me a time frame in which you think the letter was written, I can go through Simpson and see what I can find.
       
      Harry
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dick Weeks [mailto:shotgun@...]
      Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 7:28 PM
      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

      Good evening,

      I don’t want to open up a can of worms here (remember the only way to re-can a can of worms once opened is to get a bigger can) but I have a question. I got an email concerning "Sherman’s Negro Letter" and I am having trouble finding it. I have been bouncing around the Ors and found this reference to it but have not found anything that I would consider to be a "Negro Letter." I have Sherman’s memoirs but they are not indexed and I don’t want to go digging through them unless I have to.

      ". . . .I hope anything I may have said or done will not be construed unfriendly to Mr. Lincoln or Stanton. That negro letter of mine I never designed for publication, but I am honest in my belief that it is not fair to our men to count negroes as equals. Cannot we at this day drop theories, and be reasonable men? Let us capture negroes, of course, and use them to the best advantage. My quartermaster now could give employment to 3,200, and relieve that number of soldiers who are now used to unload and dispatch trains, whereas those recruiting agents take them back to Nashville, where, so far as my experience goes, they disappear. When I call for expeditions at distant points, the answer invariably comes that they have not sufficient troops. All count the negroes out. On the Mississippi, where Thomas talked about 100,000 negro troops, I find I cannot draw away a white soldier, because they are indispensable to the safety of the river. I am willing to use them as far as possible, but object to fighting with "paper" men. Occasionally an exception occurs, which simply deceives. We want the best young white men of the land, and they should be inspired with the pride of freemen to fight for their country. If Mr. Lincoln or Stanton could walk through the camps of this army and hear the soldiers talk they would hear new ideas. I have had the question put to me often: "Is not a negro as good as a white man to stop a bullet?" Yes, and a sand-bag is better; but can a negro do our skirmishing and picket duty? Can they improvise roads, bridges, sorties, flank movements, &c., like the white man? I say no. . . ."

      By the way, in this same OR Sherman describes some of the folks we have been discussing recently and I thought some of you might be interested:

      ". . . . My army is now in the very condition to be supplied with recruits. We have good corporals and sergeants, and some good lieutenants and captains, and those are far more important than good generals. They all seem to have implicit confidence in me. They observe success at points remote, as in this case of Atlanta, and they naturally say that the old man knows what he is about. They think I know where every road and by-path is in Georgia, and one soldier swore that I was born on Kenesaw Mountain. George Thomas, you know, is slow, but as true as steel; Schofield is also slow and leaves too much to others; Howard is a Christian, elegant gentleman, and conscientious soldier. In him I made no mistake. Hooker was a fool. Had he staid a couple of weeks he could have marched into Atlanta and claimed all the honors. I therefore think I have the army on which you may safely build. Grant has the perseverance of a Scotch terrier. Let him alone, and he will overcome Lee by untiring and unceasing efforts. The Mobile column is the one that needs a head, and no time should be wasted on the city. The river, Montgomery, and Columbus, Ga., are the strategic points. The latter has a double line by Montgomery and the Appalachicola River. It will not be safe to push this line farther until that is done, but stores and supplies may be accumulated here, and the country behind Chattahoochee purged a little more.. .

      Anyway, if someone has four or fives words from the letter in question, I might be able to search on it on some of the data bases I have and find it. Thanks. 

      Oh, one last thing.  Some folks are walking on a mighty thin line on that "Seeing the Elephant" thread.  I surely would hate to lose any more fine historians from the group, but lose them I will if that line is crossed.  Just a thought.

      I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
      Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
      http://www.civilwarhome.com


      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
    • VFLOYDREL@aol.com
      In a message dated 3/2/2003 4:33:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... This is in OR s and may be the one you want, it s from Guild Press Vol. 79 Page 428 HDQRS.
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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        In a message dated 3/2/2003 4:33:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, shotgun@... writes:


        "Sherman’s Negro Letter" and I am having trouble finding it. I have been bouncing around the Ors and found this reference to it but have not found anything that I would consider to be a "Negro Letter."


          This is in OR's and may be the one you want, it's from Guild Press Vol. 79 Page 428
        HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI,
        In the Field, Gaylesville, Ala., October 25, 1864.
        Hon. E. M. STANTON,
        Secretary of War, Washington, D.C.:
        SIR: I do not wish to be considered as in any way adverse to the organization of negro regiments, further than as to its effects on the white race. I do wish the fine race of men that people our Northern States should rule and determine the future destiny of America; but if they prefer trade and gain, and leave to bought substitutes and negroes the fighting (the actual conflict), of course the question is settled, for those who hold the swords and muskets at the end of this war (which has but fairly begun) will have something to say. If negroes are to fight, they, too, will not be content with sliding back into the status of slave or free negro. I much prefer to keep negroes yet for some time to come in a subordinate state, for our prejudices, yours as well as mine, are not yet schooled for absolute equality. Jeff. Davis has succeeded perfectly in inspiring his people with the truth that liberty and government are worth fighting for, that pay and pensions are silly nothings compared to the prize fought for. Now, I would aim to inspire our people also with the same idea--that it is not right to pay $1,000 to some fellow, who will run away, to do his fighting, or to some poor negro, who is thinking of the day of jubilee, but that every young and middle-aged man should be proud of the chance to fight for the stability of his country, without profit and without price; and I would like to see all trade, commerce, and manufactures absolutely cease until this fight is over, and I have no hesitation or concealment in saying that there is not, and should not be, the remotest chance of peace again on this continent  till all this is realized, save the peace which would result from the base and cowardly submittal to Jeff. Davis' terms. I would use negroes as surplus, but not spare a single white man, not one. Any white man who don't or won't fight now should be killed, banished, or denationalized, and then we would discriminate among the noisy patriots and see who really should vote. If the negroes fight and the whites don't, of course the negroes will govern. They won't ask you or me for the privilege, but will simply take it, and probably reverse the relation hitherto existing, and they would do right. If, however, the Government has determined to push the policy to the end, it is both my duty and pleasure to assist, and in that event I should like to have Colonel Bowman, now commanding the District of Wilmington, Del., to organize and equip such as may fall into the custody of the army I command.
        I am, with respect, your obedient servant,
        W. T. SHERMAN,
        Major-General, Commanding."
                                                                               Van

        " you might as well rail against the thunderstorm as against these horrors of war"...W.T. Sherman
      • carpmaster
        ... The Shermans letter to Halleck was written Sept 4, 1864. Sherman s Civil War, pg. 698 The negro letter refers to a letter written to John A. Spooner
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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          Dick Weeks wrote:
          Thanks Harry.  I have no idea of the time frame.  I suspect the letter was written to Halleck just by the wording of the excerpt from the OR that I posted.  Not sure at all.  Danged if I don't hate these emails that ask for help and don't give me the info to work with.  Thanks for your help, its a start.
          The Shermans  letter to Halleck was written Sept 4, 1864. Sherman's Civil War, pg. 698
          The 'negro letter' refers to a letter written to John  A. Spooner Esq. Agent for the Commonwealth
          of Massachusetts, written July 30, 1864  in Sherman's Civil War. pg 677.  The letter was made public
          by Spooner  in the August 18, 1864 Chicago Tribune and soon appeared in other papers both North
          and South. There is also a reference to material in John F.Marazalek's Sherman's Other War: The General and the
          Civil War press, pg 168-69. (which I don't have)
          Hope this helps,
          Chuck in IL.

        • VFLOYDREL@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/2/2003 5:59:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... In my case mostly luck..I read this passage a few years ago, and was so impressed with it, I
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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            In a message dated 3/2/2003 5:59:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, shotgun@... writes:


            I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge in this group.


              In my case mostly luck..I read this passage a few years ago, and was so impressed with it, I kept it copied in a file,and even used it in my online trivia with ehistory.
                                                                                         Van
            " you might as well rail against the thunderstorm as against these horrors of war"...W.T. Sherman
          • Darrell Harkey
            I am suprised that you are suprised that sherman was a racist. ... From: VFLOYDREL@aol.com To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:03
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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              I am suprised that you are suprised that sherman was a racist.
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:03 PM
              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

              In a message dated 3/2/2003 5:59:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, shotgun@... writes:


              I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge in this group.


                In my case mostly luck..I read this passage a few years ago, and was so impressed with it, I kept it copied in a file,and even used it in my online trivia with ehistory.
                                                                                           Van
              " you might as well rail against the thunderstorm as against these horrors of war"...W.T. Sherman


              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Harry Smeltzer
              What prompted this statement? Did I miss a post? Who said they were surprised that Sherman was a racist ? Harry ... From: Darrell Harkey
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                What prompted this statement?  Did I miss a post?  Who said they were "surprised that Sherman was a racist"?
                 
                Harry
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Darrell Harkey [mailto:hiscord@...]
                Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:18 PM
                To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

                I am suprised that you are suprised that sherman was a racist.
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:03 PM
                Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

                In a message dated 3/2/2003 5:59:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, shotgun@... writes:


                I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge in this group.


                  In my case mostly luck..I read this passage a few years ago, and was so impressed with it, I kept it copied in a file,and even used it in my online trivia with ehistory.
                                                                                             Van
                " you might as well rail against the thunderstorm as against these horrors of war"...W.T. Sherman


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • VFLOYDREL@aol.com
                In a message dated 3/2/2003 6:16:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... I don t see that I was surprised he was a racist..and never said so..I noted I was impressed
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                  In a message dated 3/2/2003 6:16:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, hiscord@... writes:


                  I am suprised that you are suprised that sherman was a racist.


                    I don't see that I was surprised he was a racist..and never said so..I noted I was impressed by the letter...I already knew his proclivities...
                  "
                  I read this passage a few years ago, and was so impressed with it,"


                                                                                        Van
                  " you might as well rail against the thunderstorm as against these horrors of war"...W.T. Sherman
                • Dick Weeks
                  Good evening, I don t want to open up a can of worms here (remember the only way to re-can a can of worms once opened is to get a bigger can) but I have a
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                    Good evening,

                    I don’t want to open up a can of worms here (remember the only way to re-can a can of worms once opened is to get a bigger can) but I have a question. I got an email concerning "Sherman’s Negro Letter" and I am having trouble finding it. I have been bouncing around the Ors and found this reference to it but have not found anything that I would consider to be a "Negro Letter." I have Sherman’s memoirs but they are not indexed and I don’t want to go digging through them unless I have to.

                    ". . . .I hope anything I may have said or done will not be construed unfriendly to Mr. Lincoln or Stanton. That negro letter of mine I never designed for publication, but I am honest in my belief that it is not fair to our men to count negroes as equals. Cannot we at this day drop theories, and be reasonable men? Let us capture negroes, of course, and use them to the best advantage. My quartermaster now could give employment to 3,200, and relieve that number of soldiers who are now used to unload and dispatch trains, whereas those recruiting agents take them back to Nashville, where, so far as my experience goes, they disappear. When I call for expeditions at distant points, the answer invariably comes that they have not sufficient troops. All count the negroes out. On the Mississippi, where Thomas talked about 100,000 negro troops, I find I cannot draw away a white soldier, because they are indispensable to the safety of the river. I am willing to use them as far as possible, but object to fighting with "paper" men. Occasionally an exception occurs, which simply deceives. We want the best young white men of the land, and they should be inspired with the pride of freemen to fight for their country. If Mr. Lincoln or Stanton could walk through the camps of this army and hear the soldiers talk they would hear new ideas. I have had the question put to me often: "Is not a negro as good as a white man to stop a bullet?" Yes, and a sand-bag is better; but can a negro do our skirmishing and picket duty? Can they improvise roads, bridges, sorties, flank movements, &c., like the white man? I say no. . . ."

                    By the way, in this same OR Sherman describes some of the folks we have been discussing recently and I thought some of you might be interested:

                    ". . . . My army is now in the very condition to be supplied with recruits. We have good corporals and sergeants, and some good lieutenants and captains, and those are far more important than good generals. They all seem to have implicit confidence in me. They observe success at points remote, as in this case of Atlanta, and they naturally say that the old man knows what he is about. They think I know where every road and by-path is in Georgia, and one soldier swore that I was born on Kenesaw Mountain. George Thomas, you know, is slow, but as true as steel; Schofield is also slow and leaves too much to others; Howard is a Christian, elegant gentleman, and conscientious soldier. In him I made no mistake. Hooker was a fool. Had he staid a couple of weeks he could have marched into Atlanta and claimed all the honors. I therefore think I have the army on which you may safely build. Grant has the perseverance of a Scotch terrier. Let him alone, and he will overcome Lee by untiring and unceasing efforts. The Mobile column is the one that needs a head, and no time should be wasted on the city. The river, Montgomery, and Columbus, Ga., are the strategic points. The latter has a double line by Montgomery and the Appalachicola River. It will not be safe to push this line farther until that is done, but stores and supplies may be accumulated here, and the country behind Chattahoochee purged a little more.. .

                    Anyway, if someone has four or fives words from the letter in question, I might be able to search on it on some of the data bases I have and find it. Thanks. 

                    Oh, one last thing.  Some folks are walking on a mighty thin line on that "Seeing the Elephant" thread.  I surely would hate to lose any more fine historians from the group, but lose them I will if that line is crossed.  Just a thought.

                    I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                    Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                    http://www.civilwarhome.com
                  • Dick Weeks
                    Thanks Harry. I have no idea of the time frame. I suspect the letter was written to Halleck just by the wording of the excerpt from the OR that I posted.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                      Thanks Harry.  I have no idea of the time frame.  I suspect the letter was written to Halleck just by the wording of the excerpt from the OR that I posted.  Not sure at all.  Danged if I don't hate these emails that ask for help and don't give me the info to work with.  Thanks for your help, its a start.
                       
                      I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                      Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                      http://www.civilwarhome.com
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:43 PM
                      Subject: RE: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

                      Dick,
                       
                      Sherman wrote a letter to his brother John from Memphis dated 9-3-62.  The first sentence reads:
                       
                      "I have your letter and Still think you are wrong in saying that Negroes are free & entitled to be treated accordingly by simple declaration of Congress"  This letter is on page 292 of Simpson's "Sherman's Civil War", and is primarily concerned with this topic.
                       
                      If you can give me a time frame in which you think the letter was written, I can go through Simpson and see what I can find.
                       
                      Harry
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Dick Weeks [mailto:shotgun@...]
                      Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 7:28 PM
                      To: civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

                      Good evening,

                      I don’t want to open up a can of worms here (remember the only way to re-can a can of worms once opened is to get a bigger can) but I have a question. I got an email concerning "Sherman’s Negro Letter" and I am having trouble finding it. I have been bouncing around the Ors and found this reference to it but have not found anything that I would consider to be a "Negro Letter." I have Sherman’s memoirs but they are not indexed and I don’t want to go digging through them unless I have to.

                      ". . . .I hope anything I may have said or done will not be construed unfriendly to Mr. Lincoln or Stanton. That negro letter of mine I never designed for publication, but I am honest in my belief that it is not fair to our men to count negroes as equals. Cannot we at this day drop theories, and be reasonable men? Let us capture negroes, of course, and use them to the best advantage. My quartermaster now could give employment to 3,200, and relieve that number of soldiers who are now used to unload and dispatch trains, whereas those recruiting agents take them back to Nashville, where, so far as my experience goes, they disappear. When I call for expeditions at distant points, the answer invariably comes that they have not sufficient troops. All count the negroes out. On the Mississippi, where Thomas talked about 100,000 negro troops, I find I cannot draw away a white soldier, because they are indispensable to the safety of the river. I am willing to use them as far as possible, but object to fighting with "paper" men. Occasionally an exception occurs, which simply deceives. We want the best young white men of the land, and they should be inspired with the pride of freemen to fight for their country. If Mr. Lincoln or Stanton could walk through the camps of this army and hear the soldiers talk they would hear new ideas. I have had the question put to me often: "Is not a negro as good as a white man to stop a bullet?" Yes, and a sand-bag is better; but can a negro do our skirmishing and picket duty? Can they improvise roads, bridges, sorties, flank movements, &c., like the white man? I say no. . . ."

                      By the way, in this same OR Sherman describes some of the folks we have been discussing recently and I thought some of you might be interested:

                      ". . . . My army is now in the very condition to be supplied with recruits. We have good corporals and sergeants, and some good lieutenants and captains, and those are far more important than good generals. They all seem to have implicit confidence in me. They observe success at points remote, as in this case of Atlanta, and they naturally say that the old man knows what he is about. They think I know where every road and by-path is in Georgia, and one soldier swore that I was born on Kenesaw Mountain. George Thomas, you know, is slow, but as true as steel; Schofield is also slow and leaves too much to others; Howard is a Christian, elegant gentleman, and conscientious soldier. In him I made no mistake. Hooker was a fool. Had he staid a couple of weeks he could have marched into Atlanta and claimed all the honors. I therefore think I have the army on which you may safely build. Grant has the perseverance of a Scotch terrier. Let him alone, and he will overcome Lee by untiring and unceasing efforts. The Mobile column is the one that needs a head, and no time should be wasted on the city. The river, Montgomery, and Columbus, Ga., are the strategic points. The latter has a double line by Montgomery and the Appalachicola River. It will not be safe to push this line farther until that is done, but stores and supplies may be accumulated here, and the country behind Chattahoochee purged a little more.. .

                      Anyway, if someone has four or fives words from the letter in question, I might be able to search on it on some of the data bases I have and find it. Thanks. 

                      Oh, one last thing.  Some folks are walking on a mighty thin line on that "Seeing the Elephant" thread.  I surely would hate to lose any more fine historians from the group, but lose them I will if that line is crossed.  Just a thought.

                      I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                      Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                      http://www.civilwarhome.com


                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    • Dick Weeks
                      Chuck, you are just a dandy. Thank you very much. I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant, Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun) http://www.civilwarhome.com ... From:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                        Chuck, you are just a dandy.  Thank you very much. 
                         
                        I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                        Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                        http://www.civilwarhome.com
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:01 PM
                        Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"



                        Dick Weeks wrote:
                        Thanks Harry.  I have no idea of the time frame.  I suspect the letter was written to Halleck just by the wording of the excerpt from the OR that I posted.  Not sure at all.  Danged if I don't hate these emails that ask for help and don't give me the info to work with.  Thanks for your help, its a start.
                        The Shermans  letter to Halleck was written Sept 4, 1864. Sherman's Civil War, pg. 698
                        The 'negro letter' refers to a letter written to John  A. Spooner Esq. Agent for the Commonwealth
                        of Massachusetts, written July 30, 1864  in Sherman's Civil War. pg 677.  The letter was made public
                        by Spooner  in the August 18, 1864 Chicago Tribune and soon appeared in other papers both North
                        and South. There is also a reference to material in John F.Marazalek's Sherman's Other War: The General and the
                        Civil War press, pg 168-69. (which I don't have)
                        Hope this helps,
                        Chuck in IL.



                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      • james2044 <james2044@hotmail.com>
                        Sherman was not intrested in having USCT regiments. That was not an uncommon feeling up to and including WWII. When you consider the times, even considering
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                          Sherman was not intrested in having USCT regiments. That was not an
                          uncommon feeling up to and including WWII. When you consider the
                          times, even considering the idea made him a liberal.

                          Now how did that make him a racist?
                        • Dick Weeks
                          Van, thank you very much. I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge in this group. I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant, Dick (a.k.a.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                            Van, thank you very much.  I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge in this group.
                             
                             
                            I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                            Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                            http://www.civilwarhome.com
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 2:40 PM
                            Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

                            In a message dated 3/2/2003 4:33:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, shotgun@... writes:


                            "Sherman’s Negro Letter" and I am having trouble finding it. I have been bouncing around the Ors and found this reference to it but have not found anything that I would consider to be a "Negro Letter."


                              This is in OR's and may be the one you want, it's from Guild Press Vol. 79 Page 428
                            HDQRS. MILITARY DIVISION OF THE MISSISSIPPI,
                            In the Field, Gaylesville, Ala., October 25, 1864.
                            Hon. E. M. STANTON,
                            Secretary of War, Washington, D.C.:
                            SIR: I do not wish to be considered as in any way adverse to the organization of negro regiments, further than as to its effects on the white race. I do wish the fine race of men that people our Northern States should rule and determine the future destiny of America; but if they prefer trade and gain, and leave to bought substitutes and negroes the fighting (the actual conflict), of course the question is settled, for those who hold the swords and muskets at the end of this war (which has but fairly begun) will have something to say. If negroes are to fight, they, too, will not be content with sliding back into the status of slave or free negro. I much prefer to keep negroes yet for some time to come in a subordinate state, for our prejudices, yours as well as mine, are not yet schooled for absolute equality. Jeff. Davis has succeeded perfectly in inspiring his people with the truth that liberty and government are worth fighting for, that pay and pensions are silly nothings compared to the prize fought for. Now, I would aim to inspire our people also with the same idea--that it is not right to pay $1,000 to some fellow, who will run away, to do his fighting, or to some poor negro, who is thinking of the day of jubilee, but that every young and middle-aged man should be proud of the chance to fight for the stability of his country, without profit and without price; and I would like to see all trade, commerce, and manufactures absolutely cease until this fight is over, and I have no hesitation or concealment in saying that there is not, and should not be, the remotest chance of peace again on this continent  till all this is realized, save the peace which would result from the base and cowardly submittal to Jeff. Davis' terms. I would use negroes as surplus, but not spare a single white man, not one. Any white man who don't or won't fight now should be killed, banished, or denationalized, and then we would discriminate among the noisy patriots and see who really should vote. If the negroes fight and the whites don't, of course the negroes will govern. They won't ask you or me for the privilege, but will simply take it, and probably reverse the relation hitherto existing, and they would do right. If, however, the Government has determined to push the policy to the end, it is both my duty and pleasure to assist, and in that event I should like to have Colonel Bowman, now commanding the District of Wilmington, Del., to organize and equip such as may fall into the custody of the army I command.
                            I am, with respect, your obedient servant,
                            W. T. SHERMAN,
                            Major-General, Commanding."
                                                                                                   Van

                            " you might as well rail against the thunderstorm as against these horrors of war"...W.T. Sherman


                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          • Dick Weeks
                            This is just the kind of post that I feared when I made the request for info. That is what I meant by the can of worms statement. I want everyone to be
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 2, 2003
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                              This is just the kind of post that I feared when I made the request for info.  That is what I meant by the "can of worms" statement.  I want everyone to be aware that there will be no discussion of Bias, Racism, Bigotry, or Causes of the war in this group.  As for me, I was born and raised in the deep South.  My ancestors owned slaves.  One took one into battle with him.  However, my time of seeing the elephant showed me very quickly that whatever the color of your skin, when you were hit by an enemy round, you would bleed just as red, and die just as dead as anyone else.  There will be no answers to this email to the group.  Those that do will belong to another group shortly, trust me on this one.  If you feel you must respond, please do so by private email.  I answer them all.
                               
                              I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
                              Dick (a.k.a. Shotgun)
                              http://www.civilwarhome.com
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:18 PM
                              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

                              I am suprised that you are suprised that sherman was a racist.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 6:03 PM
                              Subject: Re: [civilwarwest] Sherman's "Negro Letter"

                              In a message dated 3/2/2003 5:59:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, shotgun@... writes:


                              I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge in this group.


                                In my case mostly luck..I read this passage a few years ago, and was so impressed with it, I kept it copied in a file,and even used it in my online trivia with ehistory.
                                                                                                           Van
                              " you might as well rail against the thunderstorm as against these horrors of war"...W.T. Sherman


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                            • Daniel F. Giallombardo
                              Yep, it s purt near amazin. ... ADVERTISEMENT
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 3, 2003
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                                                                    Yep, it's "purt "near amazin.'

                                VFLOYDREL@... wrote:

                                 In a message dated 3/2/2003 5:59:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, shotgun@... writes:
                                 
                                 
                                I never cease to be amazed at the wealth of knowledge in this group.

                                  In my case mostly luck..I read this passage a few years ago, and was so impressed with it, I kept it copied in a file,and even used it in my online trivia with ehistory.
                                                                                                             Van
                                " you might as well rail against the thunderstorm as against these horrors of war"...W.T. Sherman

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                              • Daniel F. Giallombardo
                                Chuck, Once again you amaze - even me. ... ADVERTISEMENT
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 3, 2003
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                                                                              Chuck,
                                                                 Once again you amaze - even me.

                                  carpmaster wrote:

                                   

                                  Dick Weeks wrote:

                                  Thanks Harry.  I have no idea of the time frame.  I suspect the letter was written to Halleck just by the wording of the excerpt from the OR that I posted.  Not sure at all.  Danged if I don't hate these emails that ask for help and don't give me the info to work with.  Thanks for your help, its a start.
                                  The Shermans  letter to Halleck was written Sept 4, 1864. Sherman's Civil War, pg. 698
                                  The 'negro letter' refers to a letter written to John  A. Spooner Esq. Agent for the Commonwealth
                                  of Massachusetts, written July 30, 1864  in Sherman's Civil War. pg 677.  The letter was made public
                                  by Spooner  in the August 18, 1864 Chicago Tribune and soon appeared in other papers both North
                                  and South. There is also a reference to material in John F.Marazalek's Sherman's Other War: The General and the
                                  Civil War press, pg 168-69. (which I don't have)
                                  Hope this helps,
                                  Chuck in IL.
                                   


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                                • carpmaster
                                  ... Would have replied earlier but just got off work Thank you Dan. Actually I believe this was the 1st time I was able to amaze anyone in this great group.
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                    Daniel F. Giallombardo wrote:
                                                                                Chuck,
                                                                   Once again you amaze - even me.
                                    Would have replied earlier but just got off work
                                     Thank you Dan. Actually I believe this was the 1st time I was able to amaze anyone in this
                                    great group. Even amazed myself in beating all the much more knowledgeable people in locating
                                    the material Dick was looking for. Especially when considering my meager library.
                                    Chuck in Il.

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