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Re: A partial defense of JEJ

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  • Dave Smith <dmsmith001@yahoo.com>
    ... From my research, there was no confusion in the names. The second order, or suggestion, is the one that Pemberton attempted to respond to by turning his
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 29 12:08 PM
      --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "theme_music <theme_music@y...>"
      <theme_music@y...> wrote:
      >
      > At one point, just after he'd been shoved out of Jackson, JEJ
      > orders, or possibly suggests, that Pemberton meet him in Clinton.
      > But after issuing this order, JEJ moves north to Canton instead of
      > west or southwest to Clinton. I've always wondered if there was
      > some confusion here, given the similarity of the names. How far off
      > base am I? I could see, with my lousy handwriting, someone reading
      > Canton as Clinton.

      From my research, there was no confusion in the names.

      The second order, or suggestion, is the one that Pemberton attempted
      to respond to by turning his army around the morning of May 16. It
      was a repeat of Johnston's May 13 order to attack Sherman at Clinton,
      and reflected an even worse understanding on the part of Johnston as
      to the tactical situation.

      Pemberton, at least, understood that in order to now comply, he had
      to back away to Edwards, move north to Brownsville, and circle around
      Grant. He got caught that day as Grant closed in.

      The killer in all this was the May 13 order. Johnston somehow got
      wind that Sherman was dangling out there, and told Pemberton to move
      against him. Johnston promised that he would approach from the other
      side, and they would catch him in their pincers.

      Johnston, instead of moving to get into position, moved away towards
      Canton. In effect, he would have sacrificed Pemberton's command had
      JCP continued.

      I dunno. I still think Jefferson Davis sent JEJ to Mississippi for
      all of the right reasons, but they all backfired in the execution -
      both by Johnston and Pemberton.

      Dave
      >
    • Dave Smith <dmsmith001@yahoo.com>
      ... Anyone ... a ... As is mine. Dave
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 29 12:10 PM
        --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Will <wh_keene@y...>"
        <wh_keene@y...> wrote:

        > > On a related topic, my copy Grabau has an error on map #50. The
        > > topographical info is there, but the troop data is missing.
        Anyone
        > > have the correct map? Any possibility I could get you to send me
        a
        > > copy?
        >
        > The copy I got from the library was the same way.

        As is mine.

        Dave
      • Dave Smith <dmsmith001@yahoo.com>
        ... to our nightmare ... :-) Dave
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 29 12:11 PM
          --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "hank9174 <clarkc@m...>"
          <clarkc@m...> wrote:
          >
          > Dang, go away for a long weekend and return to a 'museum of
          > carnage' as Ernie Pyle called it...

          to our nightmare ... :-)

          Dave
        • slippymississippi <slippymississippi@yah
          ... The ... me ... Grabau lives down the road from my dad s office. When my mom dropped in to get him to sign my copy, he stole the book and gave it back a
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 29 12:19 PM
            --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith <dmsmith001@y...>"
            <dmsmith001@y...> wrote:
            > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Will <wh_keene@y...>"
            > <wh_keene@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > > On a related topic, my copy Grabau has an error on map #50.
            The
            > > > topographical info is there, but the troop data is missing.
            > Anyone
            > > > have the correct map? Any possibility I could get you to send
            me
            > a
            > > > copy?
            > >
            > > The copy I got from the library was the same way.
            >
            > As is mine.

            Grabau lives down the road from my dad's office. When my mom dropped
            in to get him to sign my copy, he stole the book and gave it back a
            couple of weeks later with all the corrections taped in. I could
            probably scan map #50 and post it here. But I don't have a scanner
            and I'm pretty busy these days, so it may take awhile.
          • Will <wh_keene@yahoo.com>
            ... ... After pausing to reflect, I agree with Dave. ~Will
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 29 12:23 PM
              --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Smith <dmsmith001@y...>"
              <dmsmith001@y...> wrote:
              > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "theme_music
              <theme_music@y...>"
              > <theme_music@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > ...I've always wondered if there was
              > > some confusion here, given the similarity of the names...
              >
              > From my research, there was no confusion in the names.
              >


              After pausing to reflect, I agree with Dave.
              ~Will
            • slippymississippi <slippymississippi@yah
              ... ... base ... tired, ... It s hard to see how he could get the two confused. Clinton was where the enemy was, Canton was the only
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 29 12:26 PM
                --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Will <wh_keene@y...>"
                <wh_keene@y...> wrote:
                > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "theme_music
                <theme_music@y...>"
                > <theme_music@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > At one point, just after he'd been shoved out of Jackson, JEJ
                > orders,
                > > or possibly suggests, that Pemberton meet him in Clinton. But
                > after
                > > issuing this order, JEJ moves north to Canton instead of west or
                > > southwest to Clinton. I've always wondered if there was some
                > > confusion here, given the similarity of the names. How far off
                base
                > > am I? I could see, with my lousy handwriting, someone reading
                > Canton
                > > as Clinton.
                >
                > Interesting point. I could also see JEJ--not feeling so well,
                tired,
                > not 100% up on local geography--putting down the wrong name.

                It's hard to see how he could get the two confused. Clinton was
                where the enemy was, Canton was the only direction out of town not
                interdicted by federal forces. His escape would necessarily involve
                marching down Canton Road. Imagine if he issued marching orders for
                his troops to march in column down the "Clinton Road." That would
                have been amusing.

                In Johnston's mind, it was probably pretty simple to keep up with.
                Canton: good.
                Clinton: bad.
              • Will <wh_keene@yahoo.com>
                ... Are there a lot of corrections? Anything of substantive interest? ~Will
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 29 1:10 PM
                  --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "slippymississippi
                  <slippymississippi@y...>" <slippymississippi@y...> wrote:
                  > ...When my mom dropped
                  > in to get him to sign my copy, he stole the book and gave it back a
                  > couple of weeks later with all the corrections taped in...

                  Are there a lot of corrections?
                  Anything of substantive interest?

                  ~Will
                • slippymississippi <slippymississippi@yah
                  ... a ... To be honest, I don t know! The corrections that really struck my eye were the tiniest: he had actually printed out the word north on a sheet of
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 29 3:07 PM
                    --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "Will <wh_keene@y...>"
                    <wh_keene@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In civilwarwest@yahoogroups.com, "slippymississippi
                    > <slippymississippi@y...>" <slippymississippi@y...> wrote:
                    > > ...When my mom dropped
                    > > in to get him to sign my copy, he stole the book and gave it back
                    a
                    > > couple of weeks later with all the corrections taped in...
                    >
                    > Are there a lot of corrections?
                    > Anything of substantive interest?

                    To be honest, I don't know! The corrections that really struck my
                    eye were the tiniest: he had actually printed out the word "north" on
                    a sheet of paper, carefully xacto-knifed it into a tiny rectangle,
                    and glued it into the book over the word "south," or something like
                    that. Holy cow! I would have settled for an errata sheet.

                    =)
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