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Re: [civilwarwest] Re: Longstreet & Bragg at Chickamauga [was Bragg's order t...

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  • DORR64OVI@aol.com
    Lee and Hank I dont disagree that a vigorous pursuit of Thomas etc given the circumstances was realisitic. My point is once Polk had failed and Longstreet
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 4, 2002
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      Lee and Hank
                           I dont disagree that a vigorous pursuit of Thomas etc given the circumstances was realisitic.  My point is once Polk had failed and Longstreet then turned the battle back to  Federal left, Braggs concept of the battle was gone and event tho he was victorious, he couldn't see it.  At that point I dont believe that Bragg would've considered a pursuit even with better circumstances.  
        Lee you are right that more study of the immediate aftermath of the battle is warranted.  

      Kent Dorr
    • SDE80@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/4/02 7:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Absolutly not. At that point, the AOT had launched powerful attacks at Shiloh and
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 5, 2002
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        In a message dated 12/4/02 7:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, carlw4514@... writes:


        -What about the fact these troops were AoNV? Is it possibly the case
        that a similar sized AoT contingent just wasnt going to pull this off,
        had they been the ones lined up to do so, an equal of Longstreet
        commanding?


        Absolutly not.  At that point, the AOT had launched powerful attacks at Shiloh and Murfreesboro.  And remember, the front echelon of the Chickamauga attack was AOT troops.

        Sam Elliott
      • hank9174
        ... case ... off, ... at ... Chickamauga ... My recollection of the left wing deployed in 3 division depth is incorrect. Longstreet s report details that the
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 5, 2002
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          --- In civilwarwest@y..., SDE80@a... wrote:
          > In a message dated 12/4/02 7:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          > carlw4514@y... writes:
          >
          >
          > > -What about the fact these troops were AoNV? Is it possibly the
          case
          > > that a similar sized AoT contingent just wasnt going to pull this
          off,
          > > had they been the ones lined up to do so, an equal of Longstreet
          > > commanding?
          > >
          >
          > Absolutly not. At that point, the AOT had launched powerful attacks
          at
          > Shiloh and Murfreesboro. And remember, the front echelon of the
          Chickamauga
          > attack was AOT troops.
          >
          > Sam Elliott

          My recollection of the left wing deployed in 3 division depth is
          incorrect. Longstreet's report details that the divisions were
          initially set in the manner following. Any updates are appreciated...

          North -->
          Preston Hindman Johnson Stewart

          Hood

          ^
          |
          Kershaw (McLaws)
          coming up


          During the morning deployment Stewart moved to right to cement the
          connection with Polk, Hood moved up and Preston moved into reserve:

          North -->
          Hindman Johnson Hood Stewart

          Preston Kershaw


          During the attack, Stewart halted at the Lafayette road. Hood made
          initial contact, broke the Federal line and wheeled to the right.
          Johnson and Hindman 'guided right' and wheeled as well. By experience,
          judgement or luck, Longstreet had his line deployed perfectly: 4
          divisions in position to exploit Hood's break...

          Longstreet reported 20,000 enlisted men in the ranks, which seems
          *about* right 6 divisions of 20 brigades, and losses of 8,000
          (wwwhew). If 2 July at Gettysburg represented the 'finest 3 hours of
          fighting by any troops anywhere', this must rank with the finest 6
          hours...

          Here is an interesting map, that my aging eyes cannot read, but it
          appears to superimpose monuments, towers and tablets on a map of the
          terrain and action.

          http://www.libs.uga.edu/darchive/hargrett/maps/1895m2.jpg


          HankC

          ps my 'map' above is lined up correctly in the 'preview pane'...will
          have to see what it looks like in the actual post...
        • hank9174
          ... Nope...didn t work let me try again...
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 5, 2002
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            --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:
            > HankC
            >
            > ps my 'map' above is lined up correctly in the 'preview pane'...will
            > have to see what it looks like in the actual post...

            Nope...didn't work let me try again...
          • hank9174
            ... case ... off, ... at ... Chickamauga ... Take 2: My recollection of the left wing deployed in 3 division depth is incorrect. Longstreet s report details
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 5, 2002
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              --- In civilwarwest@y..., SDE80@a... wrote:
              > In a message dated 12/4/02 7:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              > carlw4514@y... writes:
              >
              >
              > > -What about the fact these troops were AoNV? Is it possibly the
              case
              > > that a similar sized AoT contingent just wasnt going to pull this
              off,
              > > had they been the ones lined up to do so, an equal of Longstreet
              > > commanding?
              > >
              >
              > Absolutly not. At that point, the AOT had launched powerful attacks
              at
              > Shiloh and Murfreesboro. And remember, the front echelon of the
              Chickamauga
              > attack was AOT troops.
              >
              > Sam Elliott

              Take 2:

              My recollection of the left wing deployed in 3 division depth is
              incorrect. Longstreet's report details that the divisions were
              initially set in the manner following. Any updates are appreciated...


              North -->
              Preston Hindman Johnson Stewart

              Hood


              ^
              |
              Kershaw (McLaws)
              coming up


              During the morning deployment Stewart moved to right to cement the
              connection with Polk, Hood moved up and Preston moved into reserve:


              North -->
              Hindman Johnson Hood Stewart

              Preston Kershaw


              During the attack, Stewart halted at the Lafayette road. Hood made
              initial contact, broke the Federal line and wheeled to the right.
              Johnson and Hindman 'guided right' and wheeled as well...

              Longstreet reported 20,000 enlisted men in the ranks, which seems
              *about* right 6 divisions of 20 brigades, and losses of 8,000
              (wwwhew). If 2 July at Gettysburg represented the 'finest 3 hours of
              fighting by any troops anywhere', this must rank with the finest 6
              hours...

              Here is an interesting map, that my aging eyes cannot read, but it
              appears to superimpose monuments, towers and tablets on a map of the
              terrain and action.

              http://www.libs.uga.edu/darchive/hargrett/maps/1895m2.jpg


              HankC
            • hank9174
              ... dang, still not right...no leading blanks allowed...LOL...I ll try one more time, but after that you re on your own...one more cup of coffee should help...
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 5, 2002
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                --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:

                dang, still not right...no leading blanks allowed...LOL...I'll try one
                more time, but after that you're on your own...one more cup of coffee
                should help...


                HankC
              • hank9174
                Take 3: I think the browser strips out the leading balnks but the repositions them correctly... ... appreciated... ... of ... HankC
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 5, 2002
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                  Take 3: I think the browser strips out the leading balnks but the '>'
                  repositions them correctly...
                  >
                  > My recollection of the left wing deployed in 3 division depth is
                  > incorrect. Longstreet's report details that the divisions were
                  > initially set in the manner following. Any updates are
                  appreciated...
                  >
                  >
                  > North -->
                  > Preston Hindman Johnson Stewart
                  >
                  > Hood
                  >
                  >
                  > ^
                  > |
                  > Kershaw (McLaws)
                  > coming up
                  >
                  >
                  > During the morning deployment Stewart moved to right to cement the
                  > connection with Polk, Hood moved up and Preston moved into reserve:
                  >
                  >

                  > North -->
                  > Hindman Johnson Hood Stewart
                  >
                  > Preston Kershaw
                  >
                  >
                  > During the attack, Stewart halted at the Lafayette road. Hood made
                  > initial contact, broke the Federal line and wheeled to the right.
                  > Johnson and Hindman 'guided right' and wheeled as well...
                  >
                  > Longstreet reported 20,000 enlisted men in the ranks, which seems
                  > *about* right 6 divisions of 20 brigades, and losses of 8,000
                  > (wwwhew). If 2 July at Gettysburg represented the 'finest 3 hours
                  of
                  > fighting by any troops anywhere', this must rank with the finest 6
                  > hours...
                  >
                  > Here is an interesting map, that my aging eyes cannot read, but it
                  > appears to superimpose monuments, towers and tablets on a map of the
                  > terrain and action.
                  >
                  > http://www.libs.uga.edu/darchive/hargrett/maps/1895m2.jpg
                  >
                  >

                  HankC
                • hank9174
                  ... Take 4: I surrender...In the first diagram Hood and Kershaw should be coming up behind Johnson, not Preston... ... the
                  Message 8 of 8 , Dec 5, 2002
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                    --- In civilwarwest@y..., "hank9174" <clarkc@m...> wrote:
                    >
                    Take 4: I surrender...In the first diagram Hood and Kershaw should be
                    coming up behind Johnson, not Preston...
                    > >
                    > > My recollection of the left wing deployed in 3 division depth is
                    > > incorrect. Longstreet's report details that the divisions were
                    > > initially set in the manner following. Any updates are
                    > appreciated...
                    > >
                    > >

                    > > North -->
                    > > Preston Hindman Johnson Stewart
                    > >
                    > > Hood
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ^
                    > > |
                    > > Kershaw (McLaws)
                    > > coming up
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > During the morning deployment Stewart moved to right to cement the
                    > > connection with Polk, Hood moved up and Preston moved into
                    reserve:
                    > >
                    > >

                    >
                    > > North -->
                    > > Hindman Johnson Hood Stewart
                    > >
                    > > Preston Kershaw
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > During the attack, Stewart halted at the Lafayette road. Hood made
                    > > initial contact, broke the Federal line and wheeled to the right.
                    > > Johnson and Hindman 'guided right' and wheeled as well...
                    > >
                    > > Longstreet reported 20,000 enlisted men in the ranks, which seems
                    > > *about* right 6 divisions of 20 brigades, and losses of 8,000
                    > > (wwwhew). If 2 July at Gettysburg represented the 'finest 3 hours
                    > of
                    > > fighting by any troops anywhere', this must rank with the finest 6
                    > > hours...
                    > >
                    > > Here is an interesting map, that my aging eyes cannot read, but it
                    > > appears to superimpose monuments, towers and tablets on a map of
                    the
                    > > terrain and action.
                    > >
                    > > http://www.libs.uga.edu/darchive/hargrett/maps/1895m2.jpg
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > HankC
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