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washburne and grant

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  • carlw4514
    http://www.washtimes.com/civilwar/20020928-71680056.htm
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 28, 2002
    • Will
      ... Good article. Who were the other 5 from IL? I think three of them were McClernand, Prentiss, and Pope. Who were the other two? Logan? WHL Wallace?
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 30, 2002
        --- In civilwarwest@y..., "carlw4514" <carlw4514@y...> wrote:
        > http://www.washtimes.com/civilwar/20020928-71680056.htm

        Good article.

        Who were the other 5 from IL?
        I think three of them were McClernand, Prentiss, and Pope.
        Who were the other two? Logan? WHL Wallace? Hurlbut?
      • Jfepperson@aol.com
        ... Logan and Wallace started out as colonels, and didn t get their stars until later. I m pretty sure Hurlbut was one, but I am drawing a blank on the last
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 30, 2002
          In a message dated Mon, 30 Sep 2002 3:19:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, wh_keene@... writes:

          >
          > Who were the other 5 from IL?
          > I think three of them were McClernand, Prentiss, and Pope.
          > Who were the other two? Logan? WHL Wallace? Hurlbut?

          Logan and Wallace started out as colonels, and didn't get
          their stars until later. I'm pretty sure Hurlbut was one,
          but I am drawing a blank on the last one.

          JFE
        • Will
          ... I became obssessed with finding an answer and did some poking around. What I found suggests that: A) Pope was not considered as one of the choices from
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 30, 2002
            --- In civilwarwest@y..., Jfepperson@a... wrote:
            > In a message dated Mon, 30 Sep 2002 3:19:56 PM Eastern Standard
            Time, wh_keene@y... writes:
            >
            > >
            > > Who were the other 5 from IL?
            > > I think three of them were McClernand, Prentiss, and Pope.
            > > Who were the other two? Logan? WHL Wallace? Hurlbut?
            >
            > Logan and Wallace started out as colonels, and didn't get
            > their stars until later. I'm pretty sure Hurlbut was one,
            > but I am drawing a blank on the last one.
            >
            > JFE

            I became obssessed with finding an answer and did some poking around.
            What I found suggests that:

            A) Pope was not considered as one of the choices from Illinois since
            he was in the regular army when the war began and was promoted to
            Brigadier General before the rush of congressionally-inspired choices.

            B) In the first round, with rank pre-dated to May 17, four were
            appointed from Illinois: Grant, Hurlbut, McClernand and Prentiss.
            Though the other three all had some military experience, Grant stands
            out as being the only West Pointer and non-politician.

            C) Later in 1861, with rank to date from September 3, two more were
            appointed from Illinois: Eleazer A Paine and William A Richardson.
            Richardson apparently declined to serve, kepping his seat as
            Congressman and later Senator [not to be confused with William A
            Richardson (of Mass.) who was Secretary of the Treasury during part
            of Grant's presidency].

            D) At the end of 1861, with rank to date from December 20, one more
            was appointed from Illinois: John M Palmer, bringing the number to
            six from Illinois during 1861. I did not look beyond 1861.
          • Pete Taylor
            Will, Although he wasn t from ILL. ther is another famous Washburne connection with Grant, and that is his brother Cadwalader (or C.C. Washburn - without the
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 30, 2002
              Will,

              Although he wasn't from ILL. ther is another famous Washburne
              connection with Grant, and that is his brother Cadwalader (or C.C.
              Washburn - without the "e") C.C. Washburn became Grant's "Chief of
              Cavalry" and later served in a number of District level command
              positions under Grant. C.C. Washburn was the General who lost his
              uniform to Forrest in Memphis when he was unceremoniously forced to
              flee his hotel at night to avoid being captured. C. C. Washburn
              raise the Second Wisconsin Cavalry Regiment, and to give you an idea
              of the Washburn(e) family political clout, Wisconsin had been
              direccted by Washington and the War Department NOT to raise another
              avalry regiment. C.C. Washburn did so anyway and got his regiment
              accepted by the War Department. All three of the Washburn(e) "boys"
              were political experts.

              Of course as mentioned Elihu was a political powerhouse in Illinois,
              while his other brother was the wartiime Governor of Maine. C.C. was
              elected Senator from Wisconsin and Governor of Wisconsin after the
              war, and at the beginning of the war was a member of the US House of
              Representatives from Wisconsin and served on the Peace Commission in
              1861 that tried to settle things down before the shooting began.

              C.C. Washburn was eventually promoted to Major General and served in
              the WTO until the end of the war. While he was not a part of the ILL
              Cabal he was, by brotherly relationships, a heavy player in that
              group.

              Pete Taylor
              Clarksburg, WV

              ,-- In civilwarwest@y..., "Will" <wh_keene@y...> wrote:
              > --- In civilwarwest@y..., Jfepperson@a... wrote:
              > > In a message dated Mon, 30 Sep 2002 3:19:56 PM Eastern Standard
              > Time, wh_keene@y... writes:
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Who were the other 5 from IL?
              > > > I think three of them were McClernand, Prentiss, and Pope.
              > > > Who were the other two? Logan? WHL Wallace? Hurlbut?
              > >
              > > Logan and Wallace started out as colonels, and didn't get
              > > their stars until later. I'm pretty sure Hurlbut was one,
              > > but I am drawing a blank on the last one.
              > >
              > > JFE
              >
              > I became obssessed with finding an answer and did some poking
              around.
              > What I found suggests that:
              >
              > A) Pope was not considered as one of the choices from Illinois
              since
              > he was in the regular army when the war began and was promoted to
              > Brigadier General before the rush of congressionally-inspired
              choices.
              >
              > B) In the first round, with rank pre-dated to May 17, four were
              > appointed from Illinois: Grant, Hurlbut, McClernand and Prentiss.
              > Though the other three all had some military experience, Grant
              stands
              > out as being the only West Pointer and non-politician.
              >
              > C) Later in 1861, with rank to date from September 3, two more were
              > appointed from Illinois: Eleazer A Paine and William A Richardson.
              > Richardson apparently declined to serve, kepping his seat as
              > Congressman and later Senator [not to be confused with William A
              > Richardson (of Mass.) who was Secretary of the Treasury during part
              > of Grant's presidency].
              >
              > D) At the end of 1861, with rank to date from December 20, one more
              > was appointed from Illinois: John M Palmer, bringing the number to
              > six from Illinois during 1861. I did not look beyond 1861.
            • Aurelie1999@aol.com
              Pete, I believe that you have the brothers somewhat confused. According to my research there were three brothers Israel, Elihu and Cadwallader. Israel was
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 30, 2002
                Pete,  I believe that you have the brothers somewhat confused.

                According to my research there were three brothers Israel, Elihu and Cadwallader.  Israel was the oldest and Congressmen and later the wartime governor of Maine.  Elihu the middle brother added the "E" to his last name.

                Cadwallader was the youngest of the three and moved to Wisconsin becoming a congressmen in 1855 and while serving joined the Union Army. 
                In 1866 he built a
                flour mill in Minneapolis and became governor of Wisconsin in 1872.

                In 1880 Cadwallader and his partner John Crosby had perfected a special process for refining flour and won a gold medal for their flour.  You guessed it, the famous Gold Medal Flour.  His mill merged with other mills to form General Mills, making him a very rich man. 

                Connie


              • Pete Taylor
                Exactly, I thought that s what I said? Cadwallader raised the 2nd WI Cavalry, his brother Elihu was Grant s political ally and the third brother was the
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
                  Exactly, I thought that's what I said? Cadwallader raised the 2nd WI
                  Cavalry, his brother Elihu was Grant's political ally and the third
                  brother was the wartime governor of Maine? C.C. Washburn's papers
                  are a hoot to read, if you get a chance they are in Madison in the
                  archives. Unfortunately there were not a lot of his wartime papers
                  most deal with his terms in Congress, his business interests and his
                  papers as Governor.

                  Pete Taylor
                  Clarksburg, WV

                  --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                  > Pete, I believe that you have the brothers somewhat confused.
                  >
                  > According to my research there were three brothers Israel, Elihu
                  and
                  > Cadwallader. Israel was the oldest and Congressmen and later the
                  wartime
                  > governor of Maine. Elihu the middle brother added the "E" to his
                  last name.
                  >
                  > Cadwallader was the youngest of the three and moved to Wisconsin
                  becoming a
                  > congressmen in 1855 and while serving joined the Union Army. > In
                  1866 he
                  > > built a flour mill in Minneapolis and became governor of
                  Wisconsin in 1872.
                  >
                  > In 1880 Cadwallader and his partner John Crosby had perfected a
                  special
                  > process for refining flour and won a gold medal for their flour.
                  You guessed
                  > it, the famous Gold Medal Flour. His mill merged with other mills
                  to form
                  > General Mills, making him a very rich man.
                  >
                  > Connie
                • Jfepperson@aol.com
                  In a message dated 9/30/02 11:24:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Why can t something like that happen to me? JFE PS: CC Washburn was not as supportive or
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
                    In a message dated 9/30/02 11:24:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    Aurelie1999@... writes:

                    > In 1880 Cadwallader and his partner John Crosby had perfected a special
                    > process for refining flour and won a gold medal for their flour. You
                    > guessed it, the famous Gold Medal Flour. His mill merged with
                    > other mills to form General Mills, making him a very rich man.

                    Why can't something like that happen to me?

                    <g>

                    JFE

                    PS: CC Washburn was not as supportive or close to Grant as
                    Elihu, IIRC.
                  • Aurelie1999@aol.com
                    In a message dated 10/1/2002 6:54:04 AM Central Daylight Time, ... I apologize Pete, I must have misread your original email. Had a hunch something was wrong
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
                      In a message dated 10/1/2002 6:54:04 AM Central Daylight Time, ltcpataylor@... writes:


                      Exactly, I thought that's what I said? Cadwallader raised the 2nd WI
                      Cavalry


                      I apologize Pete, I must have misread your original email.  Had a hunch something was wrong cuz I knew you knew.  The way I read it, I thought you were saying that Cadwallader was war time governor of Maine.  I must need a brush up course in Reading 101.

                      Connie
                    • Aurelie1999@aol.com
                      In a message dated 10/1/2002 7:01:34 AM Central Daylight Time, ... I believe your are right on that count. Of course, after Grant went to the White House and
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
                        In a message dated 10/1/2002 7:01:34 AM Central Daylight Time, Jfepperson@... writes:


                        PS:  CC Washburn was not as supportive or close to Grant as
                        Elihu, IIRC.


                        I believe your are right on that count.  Of course, after Grant went to the White House and Elihu also had a falling out that lasted for years. 

                        Connie
                      • Pete Taylor
                        Right Connie, C.C. Washburn was, at best, a marginal Cavalry Officer, not bad enough to get relieved not good enough to stay on board as Grant s Cavalry chief.
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
                          Right Connie,

                          C.C. Washburn was, at best, a marginal Cavalry Officer, not bad
                          enough to get relieved not good enough to stay on board as Grant's
                          Cavalry chief. He led an expedition in Nov-Dec 1862 from Helena,
                          Arkansas towards Grenada, Mississippi with the intention of cutting
                          the rail road between that place and Abbeyville. This action was to
                          support Grant' first push towards Vicksburg that was stalled when Van
                          Dorne hit Holly Springs in December. While Washburn's raid met with
                          little resistence it never accomplished its purpose. A part of
                          Washburn's brigade managed to cut a lot of telegraph lines and
                          disrupt communications for a few days, but it failed to burn the key
                          bridges or capture Grenada and the railhead there.

                          They fought a "major" skirmish at Coffeeville and placed that entire
                          portion of north central Mississippi in a state of panic, but they
                          really accomplished very little of lasting damage to the
                          Confederacy. Part of the problem was that the pontoon boats that
                          Washburn had were so badly built that most sank when being used to
                          cross the Coldwater River near Marks, MS. He was forced to send men
                          up and down stream to find boats and then used the bridging materials
                          he brought with him to improvise a pontoon bridge. This tied him up
                          for almost one extra day and alerted the Confederates at Grenada that
                          something was afoot and allowed them sufficient time to move trains
                          around so that even when he did strike the railline he did minimal
                          damage.

                          Sherman, in his OR report, did credit Washburn's force with causing
                          some panic but then went on to say that the raid was of little
                          consequence.

                          Washburn's command in Memphis was unremarkable except for the Forrest
                          incident and his final squabble over attaching his old command, a
                          brigade containing the 2nd Wisconsin Cavalry to MG Wilson's command
                          at the end of the war during his Selma raid, an action that cost his
                          old regiment dearly. THe units that went with Wilson were generally
                          allowed to muster out of the service at the end of the war, whereas
                          the cavalry under Washburn's command at Memphis were retained and
                          sent to Texas with MG George Armstrong Custer in August 1965, and
                          didn't muster out until November 1865 - January 1866. Meanwhile
                          Washburn, himself, got out as fast as he could to get back to
                          Wisconsin for the upcoming election season.

                          Probably the most telling indication of Washburn's lack of abilities
                          and Grant's recognition of this was the fact that MG Wilson who had
                          been a Lieutenant Colonel during the early days of the Vicksburg
                          Overland Campaign under Grant was selected to lead the Cavalry Corps
                          as opposed to C.C. Washburn who was a senior Major General in the
                          theater at the time.

                          Pete Taylor
                          Clarksburg, WV.

                          --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                          > In a message dated 10/1/2002 7:01:34 AM Central Daylight Time,
                          > Jfepperson@a... writes:
                          >
                          >
                          > > PS: CC Washburn was not as supportive or close to Grant as
                          > > Elihu, IIRC.
                          > >
                          >
                          > I believe your are right on that count. Of course, after Grant
                          went to the
                          > White House and Elihu also had a falling out that lasted for
                          years.
                          >
                          > Connie
                        • Aurelie1999@aol.com
                          In a message dated 10/1/02 10:17:15 AM, ltcpataylor@yahoo.com writes:
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
                            In a message dated 10/1/02 10:17:15 AM, ltcpataylor@... writes:

                            << Probably the most telling indication of Washburn's lack of abilities
                            and Grant's recognition of this was the fact that MG Wilson who had
                            been a Lieutenant Colonel during the early days of the Vicksburg
                            Overland Campaign under Grant was selected to lead the Cavalry Corps
                            as opposed to C.C. Washburn who was a senior Major General in the
                            theater at the time. >>

                            Goes to show that Bob Uecker's philosophy in Catcher in the Wry for staying
                            in the game was right-on. If you are mediocre no one pays much attention and
                            you slide by.

                            Thanks for the outline Pete. Good thing for my mother, the quintessential
                            apple pie mom who always insisted on Gold Medal Flour didn't care about Cad's
                            CW prowess, she only cared about the cake coming out perfect.

                            Connie
                          • carlw4514
                            Now wait a minute, we country-music/bluegrass fans happen to know there is a way to make better biscuits, cakes and pies: MARTHA WHITE! ... staying ...
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 1, 2002
                              Now wait a minute, we country-music/bluegrass fans happen to know
                              there is a way to make better biscuits, cakes and pies:
                              MARTHA WHITE!

                              --- In civilwarwest@y..., Aurelie1999@a... wrote:
                              >
                              > In a message dated 10/1/02 10:17:15 AM, ltcpataylor@y... writes:
                              >
                              > << Probably the most telling indication of Washburn's lack of abilities
                              > and Grant's recognition of this was the fact that MG Wilson who had
                              > been a Lieutenant Colonel during the early days of the Vicksburg
                              > Overland Campaign under Grant was selected to lead the Cavalry Corps
                              > as opposed to C.C. Washburn who was a senior Major General in the
                              > theater at the time. >>
                              >
                              > Goes to show that Bob Uecker's philosophy in Catcher in the Wry for
                              staying
                              > in the game was right-on. If you are mediocre no one pays much
                              attention and
                              > you slide by.
                              >
                              > Thanks for the outline Pete. Good thing for my mother, the
                              quintessential
                              > apple pie mom who always insisted on Gold Medal Flour didn't care
                              about Cad's
                              > CW prowess, she only cared about the cake coming out perfect.
                              >
                              > Connie
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