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Re: Grant's lies about Chattanooga

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  • bjer50010
    ... support ... that? ... Obviously ... morning ... a ... I m sorry to reply to my own post, but I forgot that the quote to which I referred was in a different
    Message 1 of 267 , Aug 1, 2002
      --- In civilwarwest@y..., "bjer50010" <bjewell@i...> wrote:
      > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "josepharose" <josepharose@y...> wrote:
      > > --- In civilwarwest@y..., "bjer50010" <bjewell@i...> wrote:
      > > >
      > So your argument is that Grant ordered Hooker to send most of his
      > force up Lookout Mt. in some strange strategic move, but Thomas, on
      > his on initiative, orders him to move instead to Rossville to
      support
      > Thomas's right flank? Where would he get the authority to do
      that?
      > That totally changes the intent of Grant's supposed order.
      Obviously
      > Grant and Thomas changed Hooker's orders sometime before the
      morning
      > assaults were to begin. Thomas did not have that authority to do
      > that on his own. Reread the passage from Cozzens that I posted in
      a
      > previous discussion and even he writes that Thomas had to get Grant
      > to agree to the changed battle plan.

      I'm sorry to reply to my own post, but I forgot that the quote to
      which I referred was in a different forum. I am repeating it below.

      "Hooker was dismayed but determined to push on. Once again fate had
      handed him a chance to play a prominent role in the battle. As
      earlier related, Sherman's delay in getting underway against Tunnel
      Hill had convinced Grant acquiesce in Thomas's desire to send Hooker
      against Bragg's left. To recapitulate, Thomas was absolutely
      convinced that both of the enemy's flanks must be crushed before he
      dare send his AotC - reduced by detachments to Sherman and Hooker to
      slightly under 25,000 men - against the enemy rifle pits at the base
      of and atop Missionary Ridge. Thomas had no reserves on hand; every
      soldier was in the battle line of four divisions, and the rebels
      across the valley enjoyed numerical parity - bad odds for an attack
      across a partially open, mile-wide valley. So, while Grant placed his
      hopes for victory in his friend Sherman, Thomas, who shared little of
      Grant's enthuasism for the Ohioan, looked southward to Hooker for
      decisive results."

      A couple of points to make. Thomas may have come up with the idea of
      using Hooker to support the assault on Missionary Ridge, but note
      the "had convinced Grant to acquiesce in Thomas's desire to send
      Hooker against Bragg's left." Even Cozzens agrees that Thomas did
      not have the authority to issue such orders to Hooker without Grant's
      consent. Also note the "against the enemy rifle pits at the base of
      and atop Missionary Ridge". So did Thomas actually realize that
      Grant's intention was to take the top of the ridge? Was Dana wrong?

      I will also point out the subtle anti-Grant and Sherman bias.
      Note "while Grant placed his hopes for victory in his friend
      Sherman". This completely ignores the fact that the original orders
      called for a cooperative assault between Thomas and Sherman. Hardly
      sounds like Grant "placing his hopes for victory in his friend
      Sherman".

      " Thomas' anxiety was apparent. At 10:00 am, just as Hooker was
      starting down Lookout Mountain, Thomas amended his order of two hours
      earlier, which had told Hooker simply to move across the valley the
      Rossville road toward Missionary Ridge, while taking care to protect
      his right flank. Now, with the enemy evidently long since off the
      mountain, Thomas threw caution aside. He exhorted Hooker to "move
      firmly and steadily upon the enemy's works in front of Missionary
      Ridge." Palmer's 14th Corps would cooperate in the assault once
      Hooker came up."

      Now this paragraph is interesting. What happened to the Reynolds
      message telling Hooker to proceed to Rossville as per his orders of
      the previous evening? Also note, although Grant has been censured
      for giving Hooker little or no role in the assaults, Thomas's orders
      as described by Cozzens, also make him a spectator, albeit at
      Rossville rather than on Lookout Mt.

      JB Jewell
    • Aurelie1999@aol.com
      In a message dated 8/8/02 4:25:02 PM, josepharose@yahoo.com writes:
      Message 267 of 267 , Aug 8, 2002
        In a message dated 8/8/02 4:25:02 PM, josepharose@... writes:

        << Now, which of the two men, Wood or Grant, had been bending the truth
        (if not breaking it)? I think that the evidence heavily points to
        Grant. Because I think that he did so, I question his integrity,
        here and elsewhere. >>

        Mr. Rose,

        It appears to me that you cherry pick data to support your presumption that
        Grant was a worthless fool. Grant's contemporaries - even enemies - praised
        his integrity to the max. So how come that by standing in the dim hindsight
        of 150 years you are able to see what they did not see?

        Finally please explain why Thomas is incapable of standing on his own merit
        and can only be praised by faulting Grant?

        Connie Boone
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