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Re: [civilwarwest] Re: What the historians say (Snake Creek Gap)

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  • David Woodbury
    ... With all due respect, it is meaningless to try to validate your comments about McMurry s credibility by claiming other well-known (and anonymous)
    Message 1 of 27 , Mar 31, 2002
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      >At 8:53 PM -0500 3/31/02, FLYNSWEDE@... wrote:
      >As for McMurray, the comments I made about him and his being biased
      >are not mine alone. I know several well known historians that have
      >stated comments very similiar to mine.

      With all due respect, it is meaningless to try to validate your
      comments about McMurry's credibility by claiming other well-known
      (and anonymous) historians share your views about McMurry's work. It
      would be far more compelling -- more credible -- if instead you
      presented something substantive to refute McMurry's research and
      conclusions.

      David
    • carlw4514
      The Atlanta campaign is not what I know a lot about, but I can see you are quite up on it, your input is appreciated. What do you think about Wheeler s
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 1, 2002
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        The Atlanta campaign is not what I know a lot about, but I can see you
        are quite up on it, your input is appreciated. What do you think about
        Wheeler's performance? Does he deserve criticism if not "scapegoat"
        status?
        carl
        --- In civilwarwest@y..., David Woodbury <woodbury@s...> wrote:
        > >At 3:08 PM +0000 3/31/02, carlw4514 wrote:
        > >I don't see any mention of Wheeler's role.
        >
        > I introduced the quotes by saying I had selectively chosen historians
        > who reject the Wheeler-as-scapegoat scenario.
        >
        > David
      • FLYNSWEDE@AOL.COM
        In a message dated 4/1/2002 9:36:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Carl, Wheeler does deserve some criticism but he should not be the scapegoat. I tend to
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 1, 2002
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          In a message dated 4/1/2002 9:36:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, carlw4514@... writes:


          What do you think about
          Wheeler's performance? Does he deserve criticism if not "scapegoat"
          status?
          carl


          Carl,
          Wheeler does deserve some criticism but he should not be the scapegoat.  I tend to think of Wheeler's age and the possibility of mistakes as a result of either immaturity or just as a result of faulty judgement.  Wheeler, like Forrest, liked to raid more than be the eyes of the army.  Apparently, his troops did keep JEJ informed fairly well on McPhersons movements.  Now according to what I have discovered, there were two gaps that would allow passage of McPherson's troops to Resaca, with SCG being the narrowist.  The other gap was fairly well fortifide (forgot the name of that gap) and I assume that the forces that were there were Wheeler's, in addition to other troops.
          It appears that Wheeler suddenly said to himself, Hey wait a minute, there are two gaps.  I had better send a brigade over to SCG just to be on the safe side.  Well that brigade did find out to their surprise that McPherson did indeed use SCG to transverse to Resaca.  The rest has been well discussed.

          JEJ was the overall commander, but the commanders at Tunnel Hill, Rockyface, Rome,  Calhoun, and Resaca had the responsibility to make sure that their area of command would be protected and secure without JEJ telling them what time to go to the outhouse.  If you are in command, then command.  JEJ was too far distant with respect to time to make each and every instant decision.  JEJ however, as Army commander, is blamed for everything,  just as Sherman is blamed for every fire set in the South.

          Wayne
        • dmercado
          ... Wayne, I am trying to get a copy of a paper entitled Why was Snake Creek Gap Left Unguarded? by Wilbur Kurtz, Sr. I think he was an Atlanta historian and
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 1, 2002
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            --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
            > In a message dated 4/1/2002 9:36:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,

            > JEJ was the overall commander, but the commanders at Tunnel Hill,
            >Rockyface, Rome, Calhoun, and Resaca had the responsibility to make
            >sure that their area of command would be protected and secure
            >without JEJ telling them what time to go to the outhouse.

            Wayne, I am trying to get a copy of a paper entitled "Why was Snake
            Creek Gap Left Unguarded?" by Wilbur Kurtz, Sr. I think he was an
            Atlanta historian and his papers belong to the Atlanta Historical
            Society. I sent them an email asking for a copy of this paper. Have
            you ever seen the paper? Best regards, Dave
          • josepharose
            An on-line edition of The Colonel s Diary by Oscar Jackson noted the following for May 9, 1864 concerning Mac s timid advance: It is my judgment we should
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 1, 2002
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              An on-line edition of "The Colonel's Diary" by Oscar Jackson noted
              the following for May 9, 1864 concerning Mac's timid advance: "It is
              my judgment we should have occupied the town [i.e., Resaca] at all
              hazards and thus destroyed the rebel use of the railroad and cut off
              their retreat. But time will tell who is right as I and Captain
              Fitzsimmons have just remarked to one another."

              Time has told: Jackson was right.

              Joseph
            • melchizedek22
              ... Wayne,I think it was Sherman,who sold Mrs O Leary her cow! The Baron
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 2, 2002
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                --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
                > In a message dated 4/1/2002 9:36:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                > carlw4514@y... writes:
                >
                >
                > > What do you think about
                > > Wheeler's performance? Does he deserve criticism if not "scapegoat"
                > > status?
                > > carl
                > >
                >
                > Carl,
                > Wheeler does deserve some criticism but he should not be the scapegoat. I
                > tend to think of Wheeler's age and the possibility of mistakes as a result of
                > either immaturity or just as a result of faulty judgement. Wheeler, like
                > Forrest, liked to raid more than be the eyes of the army. Apparently, his
                > troops did keep JEJ informed fairly well on McPhersons movements. Now
                > according to what I have discovered, there were two gaps that would allow
                > passage of McPherson's troops to Resaca, with SCG being the narrowist. The
                > other gap was fairly well fortifide (forgot the name of that gap) and I
                > assume that the forces that were there were Wheeler's, in addition to other
                > troops.
                > It appears that Wheeler suddenly said to himself, Hey wait a minute, there
                > are two gaps. I had better send a brigade over to SCG just to be on the safe
                > side. Well that brigade did find out to their surprise that McPherson did
                > indeed use SCG to transverse to Resaca. The rest has been well discussed.
                >
                > JEJ was the overall commander, but the commanders at Tunnel Hill, Rockyface,
                > Rome, Calhoun, and Resaca had the responsibility to make sure that their
                > area of command would be protected and secure without JEJ telling them what
                > time to go to the outhouse. If you are in command, then command. JEJ was
                > too far distant with respect to time to make each and every instant decision.
                > JEJ however, as Army commander, is blamed for everything, just as Sherman
                > is blamed for every fire set in the South.
                >
                > Wayne

                Wayne,I think it was Sherman,who sold Mrs O'Leary her cow!
                The Baron
              • melchizedek22
                ... Sherman,also taught Nero to play the fiddle/ The Baron
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 2, 2002
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                  --- In civilwarwest@y..., FLYNSWEDE@A... wrote:
                  > In a message dated 4/1/2002 9:36:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                  > carlw4514@y... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > > What do you think about
                  > > Wheeler's performance? Does he deserve criticism if not "scapegoat"
                  > > status?
                  > > carl
                  > >
                  >
                  > Carl,
                  > Wheeler does deserve some criticism but he should not be the scapegoat. I
                  > tend to think of Wheeler's age and the possibility of mistakes as a result of
                  > either immaturity or just as a result of faulty judgement. Wheeler, like
                  > Forrest, liked to raid more than be the eyes of the army. Apparently, his
                  > troops did keep JEJ informed fairly well on McPhersons movements. Now
                  > according to what I have discovered, there were two gaps that would allow
                  > passage of McPherson's troops to Resaca, with SCG being the narrowist. The
                  > other gap was fairly well fortifide (forgot the name of that gap) and I
                  > assume that the forces that were there were Wheeler's, in addition to other
                  > troops.
                  > It appears that Wheeler suddenly said to himself, Hey wait a minute, there
                  > are two gaps. I had better send a brigade over to SCG just to be on the safe
                  > side. Well that brigade did find out to their surprise that McPherson did
                  > indeed use SCG to transverse to Resaca. The rest has been well discussed.
                  >
                  > JEJ was the overall commander, but the commanders at Tunnel Hill, Rockyface,
                  > Rome, Calhoun, and Resaca had the responsibility to make sure that their
                  > area of command would be protected and secure without JEJ telling them what
                  > time to go to the outhouse. If you are in command, then command. JEJ was
                  > too far distant with respect to time to make each and every instant decision.
                  > JEJ however, as Army commander, is blamed for everything, just as Sherman
                  > is blamed for every fire set in the South.
                  >
                  > Wayne

                  Sherman,also taught Nero to play the fiddle/ The Baron
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