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145Fw: Re: Why breed? IVF facepalm

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  • aditmore@juno.com
    Jun 17, 2012
      --------- Forwarded message ----------
      From: "Beth" <beth_h8@...>
      To: Why_breed@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 05:31:34 -0000
      Subject: Re: Why breed? IVF facepalm
      Message-ID: <jofjrm+q7n9@egroups.com>

      There are too many women - including feminists - who believe that
      "choice" means a woman's fundamental right to give birth to children.

      The fact is that we don't NEED all of these children, and this uber-high
      and growing population is going to be the destruction - and death - of
      everything and everyone. You only have "rights" until they impinge upon
      more fundamental rights of other or more people. That's what this "right
      to give birth" is - it impinges upon other's rights, leaving alone for
      the moment of who pays for their upkeep?

      Oddly, I think on this, we could become "strange bedfellows" with the
      anti-choice, anti-abortion groups, for the mere reason that IVF destroys
      numerous foetuses, which are not implanted or implanted and later

      Recently, I've read that in-vitro fertilization (IVF) increases the risk
      of birth defects.
      -babies-study-finds/ I wonder if we could get an odd ally in groups
      such as the March of Dimes who fight birth defects?

      Of course, it costs more money to provide for someone with a serious
      birth defect than it costs for anyone else - in terms of money or


      --- In Why_breed@yahoogroups.com, "aditmore@..." <aditmore@...> wrote:
      > I agree wholeheartedly. But we must keep in mind that opposing IVF
      involves a truly fundamental political realignment against prochoice
      femminists and groups like NOW, NARAL, and Planned Parenthood? Is the
      overpopulation movement strong enough to stand on it's own without being
      part of this coalition????? Is ther a potential coalition with
      anti-immigration groups????
      > I think the answer is yes, we can survive without these
      coalitions, but ONLY if we are willing to migrate like the Mormons to
      concentrated, overpopulation movement towns, where overpopulation
      activists can elect our own mayors.
      > -Alan
      > ---------- Original Message ----------
      > From: "Beth" <beth_h8@...>
      > To: Why_breed@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Why breed? IVF facepalm
      > Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 00:34:22 -0000
      > On another group, someone and his wife have had some very negative
      things happen in regard to their current attempts to "have a family"
      (argh!) via in vitro fertilization.
      > It's the procedure known in the 1970s as a "test tube baby" which
      seemed almost science fictionish. Now, it's a common although very
      expensive procedure to create babies for those who could not otherwise
      have them. It's a several part procedure, involving a couple of invasive
      surgeries, egg harvesting, then fertilizing them and freezing them. The
      first two pose risks of injury or death to the would-be mother that she
      wouldn't have otherwise.
      > Unused embryos are discarded. All too often the woman gets pregnant
      with a large number of foetuses. "Selective abortions" are usually
      performed. The alternative is "octomom". This is at best morally
      questionable for anyone who is anti-abortion.
      > But, in their haste to have a baby... errr... a family, they often
      don't pay attention to any of this. Then, are upset when they find out
      that there are embryos out there frozen. "Custody" of these becomes an
      issue in divorce cases, as does the question of support in a few cases.
      > The problem at hand is when some of the realities of the procedure came
      up. Then, more and more of them came up. It seems that they initially
      thought this would be a "new term for artificial insemination". WRONG!
      > This can produce HUGE numbers of babies! And, then the "it's a life"
      thing comes up after it's too late. If things aren't labeled correctly,
      someone can end up with someone else's baby, or a baby that is the
      biological child of one parent but not the other. It causes all manner of
      problems. Of course, the possibilities for using it for eugenics abound.
      > There's the old "woman's right to start a family" argument. R-I-G-H-T.
      If she no longer has a husband to help support her. If said husband is in
      the process of divorcing her? If the procedure itself causes strain on
      the marriage and causes a divorce. These children then are weapons to use
      in court.
      > It would seem to me that the sensible thing to do is to prohibit this
      monstrous procedure for as long as there are unwanted babies and children
      around. Perhaps until humans are an endangered species. This is the
      ultimate in making a "designer baby".
      > How is this pro-life? How is it pro-choice (when your ex can force you
      to support these potential children?) How is this pro-ANYTHING?
      > The nonsense of the whole routine is bothering me. Why, when the whole
      human overpopulation is where it is, when the future of humanity itself
      is very much in question, when the ecology of the planet is in question
      threatening the whole biosphere, it seems completely immoral to use this
      > Why? Because we can????
      > Your healthcare dollars at work,
      > Beth
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