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Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

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  • mkdesignco@aol.com
    OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the ART website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It s like a ghost town in here! Over at
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
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      OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the ART
      website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in here!
      Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
      MattK



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jay malaspino (cad address)
      I spent 10 years drawing full time and 3 years part time.  I haven t drawn anything since last winter nor do I expect to for another year or two.  I would
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
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        I spent 10 years drawing full time and 3 years part time.  I haven't drawn anything since last winter nor do I expect to for another year or two.  I would prefer to design rather than sell home improvements but for now a 100% commission job is the only one I can find unless I want to dig out the tool belt again.

        jay

        --- On Sun, 1/3/10, mkdesignco@... <mkdesignco@...> wrote:

        From: mkdesignco@... <mkdesignco@...>
        Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...
        To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 4:54 AM







         









        OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the ART

        website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in here!

        Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....

        MattK





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tim O'Donnell
        i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well... i did not
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
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          i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded
          from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...

          i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in
          the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for
          me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the
          internet so the program could call home or it would disable
          itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,
          the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and
          support...

          so for me it was time to kiss them off.....



          On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@... wrote:
          >
          > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the ART
          > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in
          > here!
          > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
          > MattK
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ray, Plans That Work
          Matt IMHO 9.5 was one of the best releases of all times,,,, Some times I think I should have stayed there! X1 sucked! And I m using X2 with a hardware lock and
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
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            Matt

            IMHO 9.5 was one of the best releases of all times,,,,

            Some times I think I should have stayed there! X1 sucked! And I'm using X2
            with a hardware lock and ASA? Or is it SAS? Whatever!

            Working in a 3D world takes a little getting use to but is definitely a time
            saver.

            Work being slow for the last year of so didn't help with the learning curve
            either. You'll have a lot of catching up to do going from 9.5 to X2.

            Luckily I'm going full bore here now with design and construction projects
            and getting more accustom to the program.



            Recently received a notice from Chief that my subscription is about to run
            out to the tune of $395.00,,,,,, merry Christmas!



            Jay, 100% commission? Where do I sign up? :-)



            Tim, did you go the ArchiCad route?



            Still snowing here, Ray



            Ray Castano

            Castano Construction Co.

            God Bless America

            PlansThatWork.com <http://www.plansthatwork.com/>



            _____

            From: chief-users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:chief-users@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of mkdesignco@...
            Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:55 AM
            To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...





            OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the ART
            website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in here!
            Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
            MattK


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jay malaspino
            Ray,   Well, not quite 100% more like 7%.   100% of the time.....   Well since I have used the program (version 10) so infrequently when the economy turns
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
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              Ray,

                Well, not quite 100% more like 7%.   100% of the time.....

                Well since I have used the program (version 10) so infrequently when the economy turns around (what 3-5 years?) I'll have to relearn CA or just switch.   If the cad portion and CD portion of the program haven't been upgraded extensively from v. 10 then I will switch.

                Just using a simple program like BC Framer (1 step above a rock and chisel) made me realize the lacking cad tools in CA.

              Jay  (in Atlanta now)



              --- On Sun, 1/3/10, Ray, Plans That Work <R.Castano@...> wrote:

              From: Ray, Plans That Work <R.Castano@...>
              Subject: RE: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...
              To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 9:06 AM







               









              Matt



              IMHO 9.5 was one of the best releases of all times,,,,



              Some times I think I should have stayed there! X1 sucked! And I'm using X2

              with a hardware lock and ASA? Or is it SAS? Whatever!



              Working in a 3D world takes a little getting use to but is definitely a time

              saver.



              Work being slow for the last year of so didn't help with the learning curve

              either. You'll have a lot of catching up to do going from 9.5 to X2.



              Luckily I'm going full bore here now with design and construction projects

              and getting more accustom to the program.



              Recently received a notice from Chief that my subscription is about to run

              out to the tune of $395.00,,,,, , merry Christmas!



              Jay, 100% commission? Where do I sign up? :-)



              Tim, did you go the ArchiCad route?



              Still snowing here, Ray



              Ray Castano



              Castano Construction Co.



              God Bless America



              PlansThatWork. com <http://www.planstha twork.com/>



              _____



              From: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:chief-users@ yahoogroups. com] On

              Behalf Of mkdesignco@aol. com

              Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 4:55 AM

              To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

              Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



              OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the ART

              website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in here!

              Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....

              MattK



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mike Smith
              Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while We don t do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i go thru periods of deswign
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got X1 but took one look and stcuck with version 10

                then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took a long look at version 12
                version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....
                and the online training you get with SSA is worth the money....
                I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA .. the 2d license has a reduced fee

                Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that version 12 was a good thing to move to

                and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the laptop... i don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that I now prefer the software lock to the hardware

                when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your digital locker...
                so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in switching everything to online

                Mike Smith
                Design / Build ~ RI
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Tim O'Donnell
                To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM
                Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded
                from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...

                i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in
                the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for
                me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the
                internet so the program could call home or it would disable
                itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,
                the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and
                support...

                so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@... wrote:
                >
                > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the ART
                > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in
                > here!
                > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
                > MattK
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                No virus found in this incoming message.
                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2597 - Release Date: 01/02/10 03:22:00


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Browns
                I stuck with version 10 for ages ..... but began to realise that there was very little negative comment about X2 so did some investigation and finally bit the
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
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                  I stuck with version 10 for ages ..... but began to realise that there was very little negative comment about X2 so did some investigation and finally bit the bullet and upgraded .....

                  I must say that I have been enjoying using X2. There were some painful moments with text at the beginning, but that particular bug has been fixed (along with others). So much has been changed, but the functionality of the program is still similar enough to make the upgrade learning curve relatively easy (in my opinion, anyway).

                  X2 is definitely the best release so far, in my opinion. Our business is to prepare designs and working drawings ...... so I am using the program all day - and am very happy with it.

                  Hope that helps anyone teetering on the brink of decision!

                  Happy New Year to all!

                  Lenita

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Mike Smith
                  To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 3:18 AM
                  Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                  Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                  We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                  but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got X1 but took one look and stcuck with version 10

                  then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took a long look at version 12
                  version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....
                  and the online training you get with SSA is worth the money....
                  I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA .. the 2d license has a reduced fee

                  Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that version 12 was a good thing to move to

                  and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the laptop... i don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that I now prefer the software lock to the hardware

                  when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your digital locker...
                  so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in switching everything to online

                  Mike Smith
                  Design / Build ~ RI
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Tim O'Donnell
                  To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM
                  Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                  i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded
                  from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...

                  i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in
                  the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for
                  me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the
                  internet so the program could call home or it would disable
                  itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,
                  the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and
                  support...

                  so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                  On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@... wrote:
                  >
                  > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the ART
                  > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in
                  > here!
                  > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
                  > MattK
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ----------------------------------------------------------

                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2597 - Release Date: 01/02/10 03:22:00

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2598 - Release Date: 01/03/10 20:41:00


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • simplyplans@webryders.net
                  Mike, Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at a time when work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to be rationed). The
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
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                    Mike,

                    Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at a time when
                    work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to be rationed).

                    The biggest thing that has been holding me back from X2 (I'm still on
                    10.8)is trying to find out just WHAT has been done to improve the CAD side
                    of the coin. Construction documents (i.e., WORKING drawings and NOT "funny
                    papers" as are so many designer's drawings viewed by the guys in the field
                    who have to build from what we give them) are a big part of my work and the
                    3d part is really more of a "bonus" than anything. Text, dimensioning (to
                    the objects "I" want dimensioned and not what the program "thinks" I want
                    dimensioned and getting there without feeling as though I'm re-writing the
                    damn program on each set (if I have a dimension style I like I want it for
                    every set and 10 doesn't really give me that - the program makes up it's
                    "mind" first) and ease of working with lines (and not having to either keep
                    "breaking" a polyline or "re-converting" back to a polyline. If I want a
                    simple "line" I don't want the program to join it to ANYTHING unless I want
                    to join it to something. Sections (specific section for each particular
                    situation and not "generic" cross sections which really don't give the
                    field guys "real" answers that are generated and not five or six layers
                    deep (and all generated on the "default cad" layer) that need to be
                    painstakingly gone through so that these "hidden" lines don't all of a
                    sudden appear when you are in the process of printing a final set for the
                    job. The list goes on and I don't want to get into a pissing contest with
                    the "die-hard" Chief users vs the "other" CAD programs. I want to know what
                    Chief has done and has to offer and has improved (or corrected) from what
                    10.8 has.

                    Any takers??

                    Thanks in advance,

                    Ted Crombie, CPBD
                    New Hampshire

                    Original Message:
                    -----------------
                    From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@...
                    Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:18:44 -0500
                    To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...


                    Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                    We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i
                    go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                    but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got X1 but took
                    one look and stcuck with version 10

                    then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took a long look at
                    version 12
                    version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....
                    and the online training you get with SSA is worth the money....
                    I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA .. the 2d license
                    has a reduced fee

                    Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that version 12
                    was a good thing to move to

                    and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the laptop... i
                    don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that I now prefer
                    the software lock to the hardware

                    when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your digital locker...
                    so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in switching
                    everything to online

                    Mike Smith
                    Design / Build ~ RI
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Tim O'Donnell
                    To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM
                    Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                    i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded
                    from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...

                    i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in
                    the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for
                    me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the
                    internet so the program could call home or it would disable
                    itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,
                    the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and
                    support...

                    so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                    On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@... wrote:
                    >
                    > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the
                    ART
                    > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in
                    > here!
                    > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
                    > MattK
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                    Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2597 - Release Date:
                    01/02/10 03:22:00


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                  • Browns
                    Ted, I am an Australian user - and have been using CA since Version 6. My background is drafting by hand, then I took a course to learn Generic CAD and used
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
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                      Ted,

                      I am an Australian user - and have been using CA since Version 6.

                      My background is drafting by hand, then I took a course to learn Generic CAD and used that program for around 6-12 months, but decided I could still draw faster by hand so went back to my drawing board.

                      RSI prompted me to investigate CAD again, and I bought CA. It was a steep learning curve, but I perservered, and am still here.

                      I loved version 10, and was not interested in upgrading - particularly when Australian support was discontinued. However, I noticed very few user-complaints once X2 was brought out and began to consider the upgrade.

                      Our business is to produce working drawings for local government approval, and for builders to use on site. And we are pedantic about accuracy, dimensioning and notation in order to reduce builder's frustration, and misinterpretation.

                      I do not convert elevation views to CAD - I make use of the 3D view and add CAD as necessary. This tip was given to me by a user here in Australia - and I found Version 10 produced reasonable cross sections enabling me to add detail as necessary without too much frustration.

                      X2 produces superior 3D cross sections which require far less CAD detailing (bonus!). It is possible to set up individual line weights/colours for the 3D views (eg roof, windows, etc) as required. Roof framing can be customised better, thus producing better 3D cross sections, again eliminating the need for heaps of 2D work.

                      I don't use automatic dimensioning too much since most of our work involves additions to existing homes - and the manual dimensioning tools work for me. There are more options for customisation in X2 dimension dbx.

                      Polyline slabs are selectable in 3D views, and can be adjusted there as well.

                      2D CAD tools havent changed much ..... but I have always made use of layers to prevent lines changing properties as I require. I have made blocks out of my frequently used details, and try to keep 2D to a minimum - preferring instead to make the 3D model as 'clean' as possible .... and X2 is certainly making that an easier and more achievable task.

                      Hope this is of some assistance to you in your decision-making process!

                      Regards,

                      Lenita


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: simplyplans@...
                      To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:36 AM
                      Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                      Mike,

                      Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at a time when
                      work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to be rationed).

                      The biggest thing that has been holding me back from X2 (I'm still on
                      10.8)is trying to find out just WHAT has been done to improve the CAD side
                      of the coin. Construction documents (i.e., WORKING drawings and NOT "funny
                      papers" as are so many designer's drawings viewed by the guys in the field
                      who have to build from what we give them) are a big part of my work and the
                      3d part is really more of a "bonus" than anything. Text, dimensioning (to
                      the objects "I" want dimensioned and not what the program "thinks" I want
                      dimensioned and getting there without feeling as though I'm re-writing the
                      damn program on each set (if I have a dimension style I like I want it for
                      every set and 10 doesn't really give me that - the program makes up it's
                      "mind" first) and ease of working with lines (and not having to either keep
                      "breaking" a polyline or "re-converting" back to a polyline. If I want a
                      simple "line" I don't want the program to join it to ANYTHING unless I want
                      to join it to something. Sections (specific section for each particular
                      situation and not "generic" cross sections which really don't give the
                      field guys "real" answers that are generated and not five or six layers
                      deep (and all generated on the "default cad" layer) that need to be
                      painstakingly gone through so that these "hidden" lines don't all of a
                      sudden appear when you are in the process of printing a final set for the
                      job. The list goes on and I don't want to get into a pissing contest with
                      the "die-hard" Chief users vs the "other" CAD programs. I want to know what
                      Chief has done and has to offer and has improved (or corrected) from what
                      10.8 has.

                      Any takers??

                      Thanks in advance,

                      Ted Crombie, CPBD
                      New Hampshire

                      Original Message:
                      -----------------
                      From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@...
                      Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:18:44 -0500
                      To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                      Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                      We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i
                      go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                      but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got X1 but took
                      one look and stcuck with version 10

                      then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took a long look at
                      version 12
                      version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....
                      and the online training you get with SSA is worth the money....
                      I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA .. the 2d license
                      has a reduced fee

                      Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that version 12
                      was a good thing to move to

                      and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the laptop... i
                      don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that I now prefer
                      the software lock to the hardware

                      when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your digital locker...
                      so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in switching
                      everything to online

                      Mike Smith
                      Design / Build ~ RI
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Tim O'Donnell
                      To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM
                      Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                      i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded
                      from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...

                      i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in
                      the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for
                      me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the
                      internet so the program could call home or it would disable
                      itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,
                      the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and
                      support...

                      so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                      On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@... wrote:
                      >
                      > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the
                      ART
                      > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in
                      > here!
                      > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
                      > MattK
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      ----------------------------------------------------------
                      --

                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2597 - Release Date:
                      01/02/10 03:22:00

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2598 - Release Date: 01/03/10 20:41:00


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Mike Smith
                      Ted .. good questions... and i admit to some of the same frustrations Why don t you email Wendy Welton and ask her... I bet she d tell you just what you want
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ted .. good questions... and i admit to some of the same frustrations

                        Why don't you email Wendy Welton and ask her... I bet she'd tell you just what you want to know.. another power user in that group is Jim Rogers

                        me.. I still don't know what I don't know.
                        i do know this.. my prime concern is the same as yours--- construction drawings

                        but i also know from personal experience that my ability to show my client what is happening in 3d and section camera settles a lot of arguements

                        right now i'm doing the design work on a set of plans that is in it's 6th iteration.. the original designer is now the consultant.. and the only reason this is so is because i work in Chief and the original designer still works in pencil and paper

                        so.. i need BOTH 2d and 3d
                        and Version 12 is the best yet

                        and .. no way am i going to invest time and money in some other CAD program unless it can be demonstrated beyond a doubt that I would be better off...

                        My guess is that Chief is still the best solution for MY NEEDS.. i'm pretty sure it works better than SoftPlan

                        what would you be looking at ? Archicad ?
                        Mike



                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: simplyplans@...
                        To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:36 PM
                        Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                        Mike,

                        Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at a time when
                        work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to be rationed).

                        The biggest thing that has been holding me back from X2 (I'm still on
                        10.8)is trying to find out just WHAT has been done to improve the CAD side
                        of the coin. Construction documents (i.e., WORKING drawings and NOT "funny
                        papers" as are so many designer's drawings viewed by the guys in the field
                        who have to build from what we give them) are a big part of my work and the
                        3d part is really more of a "bonus" than anything. Text, dimensioning (to
                        the objects "I" want dimensioned and not what the program "thinks" I want
                        dimensioned and getting there without feeling as though I'm re-writing the
                        damn program on each set (if I have a dimension style I like I want it for
                        every set and 10 doesn't really give me that - the program makes up it's
                        "mind" first) and ease of working with lines (and not having to either keep
                        "breaking" a polyline or "re-converting" back to a polyline. If I want a
                        simple "line" I don't want the program to join it to ANYTHING unless I want
                        to join it to something. Sections (specific section for each particular
                        situation and not "generic" cross sections which really don't give the
                        field guys "real" answers that are generated and not five or six layers
                        deep (and all generated on the "default cad" layer) that need to be
                        painstakingly gone through so that these "hidden" lines don't all of a
                        sudden appear when you are in the process of printing a final set for the
                        job. The list goes on and I don't want to get into a pissing contest with
                        the "die-hard" Chief users vs the "other" CAD programs. I want to know what
                        Chief has done and has to offer and has improved (or corrected) from what
                        10.8 has.

                        Any takers??

                        Thanks in advance,

                        Ted Crombie, CPBD
                        New Hampshire

                        Original Message:
                        -----------------
                        From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@...
                        Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:18:44 -0500
                        To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                        Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                        We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i
                        go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                        but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got X1 but took
                        one look and stcuck with version 10

                        then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took a long look at
                        version 12
                        version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....
                        and the online training you get with SSA is worth the money....
                        I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA .. the 2d license
                        has a reduced fee

                        Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that version 12
                        was a good thing to move to

                        and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the laptop... i
                        don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that I now prefer
                        the software lock to the hardware

                        when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your digital locker...
                        so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in switching
                        everything to online

                        Mike Smith
                        Design / Build ~ RI
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Tim O'Donnell
                        To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM
                        Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                        i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded
                        from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...

                        i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in
                        the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for
                        me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the
                        internet so the program could call home or it would disable
                        itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,
                        the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and
                        support...

                        so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                        On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@... wrote:
                        >
                        > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the
                        ART
                        > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in
                        > here!
                        > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
                        > MattK
                        >

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                      • simplyplans@webryders.net
                        Mike, I am almost 70 years old and although Archicad is probably the best CAD (and 3d) program there is it is WAY out of my price range at this stage of the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mike,

                          I am "almost" 70 years old and although Archicad is probably the best CAD
                          (and 3d) program there is it is WAY out of my price range at this stage of
                          the "game" for me.

                          Your input is GREAT!!! FINALLY what I consider to be unbiased answers. I
                          will contact Wendy (I do hear from Jim from time to time but usually when
                          I'm busy and he isn't - I'm sure you know how that goes)(lol).

                          I'm not knocking chief's 3d (other than I'm STILL fighting with it on a
                          project where I KNOW how I want the roof to be framed and it keeps trying
                          to do somethng different!! (grrr)). This particular project came my way
                          because of the 3d ability (vs my "reasonable" competition in town) and it
                          has helped.

                          Thank you for your input!!

                          Ted

                          BTW, I LOVE your comment, "still don't know what I don't know"!! CLASSIC!!




                          Original Message:
                          -----------------
                          From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@...
                          Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 19:12:53 -0500
                          To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...


                          Ted .. good questions... and i admit to some of the same frustrations

                          Why don't you email Wendy Welton and ask her... I bet she'd tell you just
                          what you want to know.. another power user in that group is Jim Rogers

                          me.. I still don't know what I don't know.
                          i do know this.. my prime concern is the same as yours--- construction
                          drawings

                          but i also know from personal experience that my ability to show my
                          client what is happening in 3d and section camera settles a lot of
                          arguements

                          right now i'm doing the design work on a set of plans that is in it's 6th
                          iteration.. the original designer is now the consultant.. and the only
                          reason this is so is because i work in Chief and the original designer
                          still works in pencil and paper

                          so.. i need BOTH 2d and 3d
                          and Version 12 is the best yet

                          and .. no way am i going to invest time and money in some other CAD
                          program unless it can be demonstrated beyond a doubt that I would be
                          better off...

                          My guess is that Chief is still the best solution for MY NEEDS.. i'm
                          pretty sure it works better than SoftPlan

                          what would you be looking at ? Archicad ?
                          Mike



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: simplyplans@...
                          To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 5:36 PM
                          Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                          Mike,

                          Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at a time when
                          work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to be rationed).

                          The biggest thing that has been holding me back from X2 (I'm still on
                          10.8)is trying to find out just WHAT has been done to improve the CAD side
                          of the coin. Construction documents (i.e., WORKING drawings and NOT "funny
                          papers" as are so many designer's drawings viewed by the guys in the field
                          who have to build from what we give them) are a big part of my work and
                          the
                          3d part is really more of a "bonus" than anything. Text, dimensioning (to
                          the objects "I" want dimensioned and not what the program "thinks" I want
                          dimensioned and getting there without feeling as though I'm re-writing the
                          damn program on each set (if I have a dimension style I like I want it for
                          every set and 10 doesn't really give me that - the program makes up it's
                          "mind" first) and ease of working with lines (and not having to either
                          keep
                          "breaking" a polyline or "re-converting" back to a polyline. If I want a
                          simple "line" I don't want the program to join it to ANYTHING unless I
                          want
                          to join it to something. Sections (specific section for each particular
                          situation and not "generic" cross sections which really don't give the
                          field guys "real" answers that are generated and not five or six layers
                          deep (and all generated on the "default cad" layer) that need to be
                          painstakingly gone through so that these "hidden" lines don't all of a
                          sudden appear when you are in the process of printing a final set for the
                          job. The list goes on and I don't want to get into a pissing contest with
                          the "die-hard" Chief users vs the "other" CAD programs. I want to know
                          what
                          Chief has done and has to offer and has improved (or corrected) from what
                          10.8 has.

                          Any takers??

                          Thanks in advance,

                          Ted Crombie, CPBD
                          New Hampshire

                          Original Message:
                          -----------------
                          From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@...
                          Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:18:44 -0500
                          To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                          Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                          We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i
                          go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                          but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got X1 but took
                          one look and stcuck with version 10

                          then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took a long look at
                          version 12
                          version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....
                          and the online training you get with SSA is worth the money....
                          I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA .. the 2d
                          license
                          has a reduced fee

                          Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that version 12
                          was a good thing to move to

                          and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the laptop... i
                          don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that I now prefer
                          the software lock to the hardware

                          when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your digital locker...
                          so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in switching
                          everything to online

                          Mike Smith
                          Design / Build ~ RI
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Tim O'Donnell
                          To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM
                          Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                          i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded
                          from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...

                          i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in
                          the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for
                          me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the
                          internet so the program could call home or it would disable
                          itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,
                          the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and
                          support...

                          so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                          On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@... wrote:
                          >
                          > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the
                          ART
                          > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in
                          > here!
                          > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
                          > MattK
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                        • simplyplans@webryders.net
                          Hi Lenita, Like yourslf I started into this fild back in 1967 (after returning from a lovely - NOT! - tour of SE Asia) and, of course, CAD was not even
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 3, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Lenita,

                            Like yourslf I started into this fild back in 1967 (after returning from a
                            "lovely" - NOT! - tour of SE Asia) and, of course, CAD was not even
                            anything more than dream in someone's mind. I worked my way up through the
                            ranks in an architectural office (Royal Barry Wills Associates, Boston) as
                            a draftsman and going to the BAC (Boston Architectural Center) nights. The
                            firm I worked for did custom authentic colonial residential and, needless
                            to say, detailing was a PRIMARY concern and I took (and still do) a great
                            deal of pride in the work thta leaves my office. I have always had a "rule"
                            that if I don't know how the structure is going to be able to be built and
                            can SHOW the contractor (either on paper or, if need be, in the field) how
                            things are going to go together then the documents are not ready to be sent
                            out.

                            I "fought" transitioning to CAD (AutoCAD R4, I believe) for a long time
                            mainly because I wasn't all the impressed with it and felt my hand work was
                            far superior and certainly a lot faster. With the improvements in computer
                            technology and in the architectural field of CAD I finally bit the bullet
                            and put away the parallel edge, the adjustable triangles, french curves and
                            compasses for good.

                            I transitioned from Autocad more because of their holier than thou attitude
                            more than any problems with the program (except that the learning curve for
                            each new release was extremely time consuming and frustrating) and
                            discovered Chief while serving as a small NH town's code enforcement
                            officer and building inspector part time. I was looking for a program that
                            had a decent 3d program that wasn't a nightmare to use (i.e., Autocad) and
                            yet could produce a good set of construction documents as well. Chief
                            "appeared" to have these qualities and jumped into the fray. I soon found
                            myself using both programs - Chief for 3d and Autocad for the working
                            drawings - which was also very, very frustrating and time consuming.

                            I guess the BIGGEST problem I have with Chief is that once you have created
                            a "CAD" (2d) drawing you have severed ALL ties back to the plan drawings
                            and when the owner wants to make changes you are basically back to square
                            one!! GRRRR! (Clients will never understand that it is teir RESPONSIBILITY
                            to be closely studying their project during the design stage and not
                            waiting until the last minute to make the comment, "Oh, btw, we want to
                            change this room around and eliminate these windows and add these, etc.,
                            etc., etc..)(lol) The ONLY program I'm aware of that does not sever the 2d
                            from the 3d is Archicad and that is a VERY sophisticated (and expensive)
                            program.

                            I have NEVER used Chief's auto dimensioning program (well, maybe once and
                            found it was basically useless) but really get extremely upset when I have
                            to add construction lines to a drawing in order to be able to dimension
                            some things because Chief's dimensioning Czar inside the program doesn't
                            think I need to know the dimension I am trying to see isn't needed!

                            Your comments and input are also EXTREMELY helpful and certainly are to be
                            considered in my decision making. Of course the EASIEST thing would be to
                            simply retire and put all the frustrations behind me but Hell, who can
                            afford to retire these days?!!

                            Thank you for your input!!

                            Ted

                            Original Message:
                            -----------------
                            From: Browns bluemist@...
                            Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:26 +1100
                            To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...


                            Ted,

                            I am an Australian user - and have been using CA since Version 6.

                            My background is drafting by hand, then I took a course to learn Generic
                            CAD and used that program for around 6-12 months, but decided I could still
                            draw faster by hand so went back to my drawing board.

                            RSI prompted me to investigate CAD again, and I bought CA. It was a steep
                            learning curve, but I perservered, and am still here.

                            I loved version 10, and was not interested in upgrading - particularly when
                            Australian support was discontinued. However, I noticed very few
                            user-complaints once X2 was brought out and began to consider the upgrade.

                            Our business is to produce working drawings for local government approval,
                            and for builders to use on site. And we are pedantic about accuracy,
                            dimensioning and notation in order to reduce builder's frustration, and
                            misinterpretation.

                            I do not convert elevation views to CAD - I make use of the 3D view and add
                            CAD as necessary. This tip was given to me by a user here in Australia -
                            and I found Version 10 produced reasonable cross sections enabling me to
                            add detail as necessary without too much frustration.

                            X2 produces superior 3D cross sections which require far less CAD detailing
                            (bonus!). It is possible to set up individual line weights/colours for the
                            3D views (eg roof, windows, etc) as required. Roof framing can be
                            customised better, thus producing better 3D cross sections, again
                            eliminating the need for heaps of 2D work.

                            I don't use automatic dimensioning too much since most of our work involves
                            additions to existing homes - and the manual dimensioning tools work for
                            me. There are more options for customisation in X2 dimension dbx.

                            Polyline slabs are selectable in 3D views, and can be adjusted there as
                            well.

                            2D CAD tools havent changed much ..... but I have always made use of layers
                            to prevent lines changing properties as I require. I have made blocks out
                            of my frequently used details, and try to keep 2D to a minimum - preferring
                            instead to make the 3D model as 'clean' as possible .... and X2 is
                            certainly making that an easier and more achievable task.

                            Hope this is of some assistance to you in your decision-making process!

                            Regards,

                            Lenita


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: simplyplans@...
                            To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:36 AM
                            Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                            Mike,

                            Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at a time when
                            work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to be rationed).

                            The biggest thing that has been holding me back from X2 (I'm still on
                            10.8)is trying to find out just WHAT has been done to improve the CAD side
                            of the coin. Construction documents (i.e., WORKING drawings and NOT "funny
                            papers" as are so many designer's drawings viewed by the guys in the field
                            who have to build from what we give them) are a big part of my work and
                            the
                            3d part is really more of a "bonus" than anything. Text, dimensioning (to
                            the objects "I" want dimensioned and not what the program "thinks" I want
                            dimensioned and getting there without feeling as though I'm re-writing the
                            damn program on each set (if I have a dimension style I like I want it for
                            every set and 10 doesn't really give me that - the program makes up it's
                            "mind" first) and ease of working with lines (and not having to either
                            keep
                            "breaking" a polyline or "re-converting" back to a polyline. If I want a
                            simple "line" I don't want the program to join it to ANYTHING unless I
                            want
                            to join it to something. Sections (specific section for each particular
                            situation and not "generic" cross sections which really don't give the
                            field guys "real" answers that are generated and not five or six layers
                            deep (and all generated on the "default cad" layer) that need to be
                            painstakingly gone through so that these "hidden" lines don't all of a
                            sudden appear when you are in the process of printing a final set for the
                            job. The list goes on and I don't want to get into a pissing contest with
                            the "die-hard" Chief users vs the "other" CAD programs. I want to know
                            what
                            Chief has done and has to offer and has improved (or corrected) from what
                            10.8 has.

                            Any takers??

                            Thanks in advance,

                            Ted Crombie, CPBD
                            New Hampshire

                            Original Message:
                            -----------------
                            From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@...
                            Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:18:44 -0500
                            To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                            Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                            We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i
                            go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                            but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got X1 but took
                            one look and stcuck with version 10

                            then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took a long look at
                            version 12
                            version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....
                            and the online training you get with SSA is worth the money....
                            I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA .. the 2d
                            license
                            has a reduced fee

                            Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that version 12
                            was a good thing to move to

                            and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the laptop... i
                            don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that I now prefer
                            the software lock to the hardware

                            when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your digital locker...
                            so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in switching
                            everything to online

                            Mike Smith
                            Design / Build ~ RI
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Tim O'Donnell
                            To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM
                            Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                            i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded
                            from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...

                            i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in
                            the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for
                            me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the
                            internet so the program could call home or it would disable
                            itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,
                            the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and
                            support...

                            so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                            On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@... wrote:
                            >
                            > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the
                            ART
                            > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in
                            > here!
                            > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....
                            > MattK
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                          • jay malaspino
                            Ted,   Royal Barry Wills?  As recently as a few years ago I had about 1/2 dozen plans come across my desk from one of his sons.  He drew by hand still.  I
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 4, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Ted,

                                Royal Barry Wills?  As recently as a few years ago I had about 1/2 dozen plans come across my desk from one of his sons.  He drew by hand still.  I am 45 years old and I've never seen anything so astounding in my life.......

                              Jay

                              --- On Sun, 1/3/10, simplyplans@... <simplyplans@...> wrote:

                              From: simplyplans@... <simplyplans@...>
                              Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...
                              To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 8:48 PM







                               









                              Hi Lenita,



                              Like yourslf I started into this fild back in 1967 (after returning from a

                              "lovely" - NOT! - tour of SE Asia) and, of course, CAD was not even

                              anything more than dream in someone's mind. I worked my way up through the

                              ranks in an architectural office (Royal Barry Wills Associates, Boston) as

                              a draftsman and going to the BAC (Boston Architectural Center) nights. The

                              firm I worked for did custom authentic colonial residential and, needless

                              to say, detailing was a PRIMARY concern and I took (and still do) a great

                              deal of pride in the work thta leaves my office. I have always had a "rule"

                              that if I don't know how the structure is going to be able to be built and

                              can SHOW the contractor (either on paper or, if need be, in the field) how

                              things are going to go together then the documents are not ready to be sent

                              out.



                              I "fought" transitioning to CAD (AutoCAD R4, I believe) for a long time

                              mainly because I wasn't all the impressed with it and felt my hand work was

                              far superior and certainly a lot faster. With the improvements in computer

                              technology and in the architectural field of CAD I finally bit the bullet

                              and put away the parallel edge, the adjustable triangles, french curves and

                              compasses for good.



                              I transitioned from Autocad more because of their holier than thou attitude

                              more than any problems with the program (except that the learning curve for

                              each new release was extremely time consuming and frustrating) and

                              discovered Chief while serving as a small NH town's code enforcement

                              officer and building inspector part time. I was looking for a program that

                              had a decent 3d program that wasn't a nightmare to use (i.e., Autocad) and

                              yet could produce a good set of construction documents as well. Chief

                              "appeared" to have these qualities and jumped into the fray. I soon found

                              myself using both programs - Chief for 3d and Autocad for the working

                              drawings - which was also very, very frustrating and time consuming.



                              I guess the BIGGEST problem I have with Chief is that once you have created

                              a "CAD" (2d) drawing you have severed ALL ties back to the plan drawings

                              and when the owner wants to make changes you are basically back to square

                              one!! GRRRR! (Clients will never understand that it is teir RESPONSIBILITY

                              to be closely studying their project during the design stage and not

                              waiting until the last minute to make the comment, "Oh, btw, we want to

                              change this room around and eliminate these windows and add these, etc.,

                              etc., etc..)(lol) The ONLY program I'm aware of that does not sever the 2d

                              from the 3d is Archicad and that is a VERY sophisticated (and expensive)

                              program.



                              I have NEVER used Chief's auto dimensioning program (well, maybe once and

                              found it was basically useless) but really get extremely upset when I have

                              to add construction lines to a drawing in order to be able to dimension

                              some things because Chief's dimensioning Czar inside the program doesn't

                              think I need to know the dimension I am trying to see isn't needed!



                              Your comments and input are also EXTREMELY helpful and certainly are to be

                              considered in my decision making. Of course the EASIEST thing would be to

                              simply retire and put all the frustrations behind me but Hell, who can

                              afford to retire these days?!!



                              Thank you for your input!!



                              Ted



                              Original Message:

                              ------------ -----

                              From: Browns bluemist@netspace. net.au

                              Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:26 +1100

                              To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                              Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                              Ted,



                              I am an Australian user - and have been using CA since Version 6.



                              My background is drafting by hand, then I took a course to learn Generic

                              CAD and used that program for around 6-12 months, but decided I could still

                              draw faster by hand so went back to my drawing board.



                              RSI prompted me to investigate CAD again, and I bought CA. It was a steep

                              learning curve, but I perservered, and am still here.



                              I loved version 10, and was not interested in upgrading - particularly when

                              Australian support was discontinued. However, I noticed very few

                              user-complaints once X2 was brought out and began to consider the upgrade.



                              Our business is to produce working drawings for local government approval,

                              and for builders to use on site. And we are pedantic about accuracy,

                              dimensioning and notation in order to reduce builder's frustration, and

                              misinterpretation.



                              I do not convert elevation views to CAD - I make use of the 3D view and add

                              CAD as necessary. This tip was given to me by a user here in Australia -

                              and I found Version 10 produced reasonable cross sections enabling me to

                              add detail as necessary without too much frustration.



                              X2 produces superior 3D cross sections which require far less CAD detailing

                              (bonus!). It is possible to set up individual line weights/colours for the

                              3D views (eg roof, windows, etc) as required. Roof framing can be

                              customised better, thus producing better 3D cross sections, again

                              eliminating the need for heaps of 2D work.



                              I don't use automatic dimensioning too much since most of our work involves

                              additions to existing homes - and the manual dimensioning tools work for

                              me. There are more options for customisation in X2 dimension dbx.



                              Polyline slabs are selectable in 3D views, and can be adjusted there as

                              well.



                              2D CAD tools havent changed much ..... but I have always made use of layers

                              to prevent lines changing properties as I require. I have made blocks out

                              of my frequently used details, and try to keep 2D to a minimum - preferring

                              instead to make the 3D model as 'clean' as possible .... and X2 is

                              certainly making that an easier and more achievable task.



                              Hope this is of some assistance to you in your decision-making process!



                              Regards,



                              Lenita





                              ----- Original Message -----

                              From: simplyplans@ webryders. net

                              To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                              Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:36 AM

                              Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                              Mike,



                              Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at a time when

                              work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to be rationed).



                              The biggest thing that has been holding me back from X2 (I'm still on

                              10.8)is trying to find out just WHAT has been done to improve the CAD side

                              of the coin. Construction documents (i.e., WORKING drawings and NOT "funny

                              papers" as are so many designer's drawings viewed by the guys in the field

                              who have to build from what we give them) are a big part of my work and

                              the

                              3d part is really more of a "bonus" than anything. Text, dimensioning (to

                              the objects "I" want dimensioned and not what the program "thinks" I want

                              dimensioned and getting there without feeling as though I'm re-writing the

                              damn program on each set (if I have a dimension style I like I want it for

                              every set and 10 doesn't really give me that - the program makes up it's

                              "mind" first) and ease of working with lines (and not having to either

                              keep

                              "breaking" a polyline or "re-converting" back to a polyline. If I want a

                              simple "line" I don't want the program to join it to ANYTHING unless I

                              want

                              to join it to something. Sections (specific section for each particular

                              situation and not "generic" cross sections which really don't give the

                              field guys "real" answers that are generated and not five or six layers

                              deep (and all generated on the "default cad" layer) that need to be

                              painstakingly gone through so that these "hidden" lines don't all of a

                              sudden appear when you are in the process of printing a final set for the

                              job. The list goes on and I don't want to get into a pissing contest with

                              the "die-hard" Chief users vs the "other" CAD programs. I want to know

                              what

                              Chief has done and has to offer and has improved (or corrected) from what

                              10.8 has.



                              Any takers??



                              Thanks in advance,



                              Ted Crombie, CPBD

                              New Hampshire



                              Original Message:

                              ------------ -----

                              From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@cox. net

                              Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:18:44 -0500

                              To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                              Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                              Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while



                              We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient with Chief.. i

                              go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc



                              but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got X1 but took

                              one look and stcuck with version 10



                              then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took a long look at

                              version 12

                              version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....

                              and the online training you get with SSA is worth the money....

                              I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA .. the 2d

                              license

                              has a reduced fee



                              Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that version 12

                              was a good thing to move to



                              and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the laptop... i

                              don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that I now prefer

                              the software lock to the hardware



                              when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your digital locker...

                              so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in switching

                              everything to online



                              Mike Smith

                              Design / Build ~ RI

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              From: Tim O'Donnell

                              To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                              Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM

                              Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...



                              i did not reply to your request of new features as I have not upgraded

                              from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have not as well...



                              i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it behaved and in

                              the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for

                              me...especially the concept of needing to have constant access to the

                              internet so the program could call home or it would disable

                              itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the internet,

                              the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less content and

                              support...



                              so for me it was time to kiss them off.....



                              On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@aol. com wrote:

                              >

                              > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good list at the

                              ART

                              > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a ghost town in

                              > here!

                              > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet there.....

                              > MattK

                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ted C
                              Jay, Back in the days when I worked there Richard Wills had taken over the firm s reins after Royal had passed on. Royal s only other son was Charlie who was a
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 4, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Jay,

                                Back in the days when I worked there Richard Wills had taken
                                over the firm's reins after Royal had passed on. Royal's
                                only other son was Charlie who was a builder in the area
                                (and an excellent one at that). As far as I knew Richard had
                                retired (or should have - since he was in his mid forties
                                back in the 60's) but he had a daughter who is a registered
                                architect and was with the firm. Richard may have had sons
                                but I'm not sure.

                                A LOT of their drawings (details) were always kept in very
                                well organized files and one of the first projects I was
                                given (as a "newbie" to the firm) was to take details to be
                                archived and to redraw them on linen (and in ink) so that
                                they could be preserved. There were some extremely talented
                                draftsmen working there back then and the quality of the
                                details was, to say the least, astonishing. We each had our
                                own "style" and it didn't take too long to be able to
                                recognize who had drawn any particular detail, or set of
                                plans, just by the style of the notes, pensil weights, etc..


                                It was quite a learning experience and I gained more
                                knowledge there than in my years at the BAC.

                                Ted

                                "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of
                                arriving in a
                                pretty and well preserved body, but rather, to skid in
                                broadside, thoroughly
                                used up, totally worn out, and yelling "WHOA! What a ride!"


                                _____

                                From: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:chief-users@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jay
                                malaspino
                                Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 7:25 AM
                                To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...




                                Ted,

                                Royal Barry Wills? As recently as a few years ago I had
                                about 1/2 dozen plans come across my desk from one of his
                                sons. He drew by hand still. I am 45 years old and I've
                                never seen anything so astounding in my life.......

                                Jay

                                --- On Sun, 1/3/10, simplyplans@
                                <mailto:simplyplans%40webryders.net> webryders.net
                                <simplyplans@ <mailto:simplyplans%40webryders.net>
                                webryders.net> wrote:

                                From: simplyplans@ <mailto:simplyplans%40webryders.net>
                                webryders.net <simplyplans@
                                <mailto:simplyplans%40webryders.net> webryders.net>
                                Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...
                                To: chief-users@ <mailto:chief-users%40yahoogroups.com>
                                yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 8:48 PM



                                Hi Lenita,

                                Like yourslf I started into this fild back in 1967 (after
                                returning from a

                                "lovely" - NOT! - tour of SE Asia) and, of course, CAD was
                                not even

                                anything more than dream in someone's mind. I worked my way
                                up through the

                                ranks in an architectural office (Royal Barry Wills
                                Associates, Boston) as

                                a draftsman and going to the BAC (Boston Architectural
                                Center) nights. The

                                firm I worked for did custom authentic colonial residential
                                and, needless

                                to say, detailing was a PRIMARY concern and I took (and
                                still do) a great

                                deal of pride in the work thta leaves my office. I have
                                always had a "rule"

                                that if I don't know how the structure is going to be able
                                to be built and

                                can SHOW the contractor (either on paper or, if need be, in
                                the field) how

                                things are going to go together then the documents are not
                                ready to be sent

                                out.

                                I "fought" transitioning to CAD (AutoCAD R4, I believe) for
                                a long time

                                mainly because I wasn't all the impressed with it and felt
                                my hand work was

                                far superior and certainly a lot faster. With the
                                improvements in computer

                                technology and in the architectural field of CAD I finally
                                bit the bullet

                                and put away the parallel edge, the adjustable triangles,
                                french curves and

                                compasses for good.

                                I transitioned from Autocad more because of their holier
                                than thou attitude

                                more than any problems with the program (except that the
                                learning curve for

                                each new release was extremely time consuming and
                                frustrating) and

                                discovered Chief while serving as a small NH town's code
                                enforcement

                                officer and building inspector part time. I was looking for
                                a program that

                                had a decent 3d program that wasn't a nightmare to use
                                (i.e., Autocad) and

                                yet could produce a good set of construction documents as
                                well. Chief

                                "appeared" to have these qualities and jumped into the fray.
                                I soon found

                                myself using both programs - Chief for 3d and Autocad for
                                the working

                                drawings - which was also very, very frustrating and time
                                consuming.

                                I guess the BIGGEST problem I have with Chief is that once
                                you have created

                                a "CAD" (2d) drawing you have severed ALL ties back to the
                                plan drawings

                                and when the owner wants to make changes you are basically
                                back to square

                                one!! GRRRR! (Clients will never understand that it is teir
                                RESPONSIBILITY

                                to be closely studying their project during the design stage
                                and not

                                waiting until the last minute to make the comment, "Oh, btw,
                                we want to

                                change this room around and eliminate these windows and add
                                these, etc.,

                                etc., etc..)(lol) The ONLY program I'm aware of that does
                                not sever the 2d

                                from the 3d is Archicad and that is a VERY sophisticated
                                (and expensive)

                                program.

                                I have NEVER used Chief's auto dimensioning program (well,
                                maybe once and

                                found it was basically useless) but really get extremely
                                upset when I have

                                to add construction lines to a drawing in order to be able
                                to dimension

                                some things because Chief's dimensioning Czar inside the
                                program doesn't

                                think I need to know the dimension I am trying to see isn't
                                needed!

                                Your comments and input are also EXTREMELY helpful and
                                certainly are to be

                                considered in my decision making. Of course the EASIEST
                                thing would be to

                                simply retire and put all the frustrations behind me but
                                Hell, who can

                                afford to retire these days?!!

                                Thank you for your input!!

                                Ted

                                Original Message:

                                ------------ -----

                                From: Browns bluemist@netspace. net.au

                                Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:26 +1100

                                To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                                Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                Ted,

                                I am an Australian user - and have been using CA since
                                Version 6.

                                My background is drafting by hand, then I took a course to
                                learn Generic

                                CAD and used that program for around 6-12 months, but
                                decided I could still

                                draw faster by hand so went back to my drawing board.

                                RSI prompted me to investigate CAD again, and I bought CA.
                                It was a steep

                                learning curve, but I perservered, and am still here.

                                I loved version 10, and was not interested in upgrading -
                                particularly when

                                Australian support was discontinued. However, I noticed very
                                few

                                user-complaints once X2 was brought out and began to
                                consider the upgrade.

                                Our business is to produce working drawings for local
                                government approval,

                                and for builders to use on site. And we are pedantic about
                                accuracy,

                                dimensioning and notation in order to reduce builder's
                                frustration, and

                                misinterpretation.

                                I do not convert elevation views to CAD - I make use of the
                                3D view and add

                                CAD as necessary. This tip was given to me by a user here in
                                Australia -

                                and I found Version 10 produced reasonable cross sections
                                enabling me to

                                add detail as necessary without too much frustration.

                                X2 produces superior 3D cross sections which require far
                                less CAD detailing

                                (bonus!). It is possible to set up individual line
                                weights/colours for the

                                3D views (eg roof, windows, etc) as required. Roof framing
                                can be

                                customised better, thus producing better 3D cross sections,
                                again

                                eliminating the need for heaps of 2D work.

                                I don't use automatic dimensioning too much since most of
                                our work involves

                                additions to existing homes - and the manual dimensioning
                                tools work for

                                me. There are more options for customisation in X2 dimension
                                dbx.

                                Polyline slabs are selectable in 3D views, and can be
                                adjusted there as

                                well.

                                2D CAD tools havent changed much ..... but I have always
                                made use of layers

                                to prevent lines changing properties as I require. I have
                                made blocks out

                                of my frequently used details, and try to keep 2D to a
                                minimum - preferring

                                instead to make the 3D model as 'clean' as possible .... and
                                X2 is

                                certainly making that an easier and more achievable task.

                                Hope this is of some assistance to you in your
                                decision-making process!

                                Regards,

                                Lenita

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                From: simplyplans@ webryders. net

                                To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                                Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:36 AM

                                Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                Mike,

                                Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at
                                a time when

                                work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to
                                be rationed).

                                The biggest thing that has been holding me back from X2 (I'm
                                still on

                                10.8)is trying to find out just WHAT has been done to
                                improve the CAD side

                                of the coin. Construction documents (i.e., WORKING drawings
                                and NOT "funny

                                papers" as are so many designer's drawings viewed by the
                                guys in the field

                                who have to build from what we give them) are a big part of
                                my work and

                                the

                                3d part is really more of a "bonus" than anything. Text,
                                dimensioning (to

                                the objects "I" want dimensioned and not what the program
                                "thinks" I want

                                dimensioned and getting there without feeling as though I'm
                                re-writing the

                                damn program on each set (if I have a dimension style I like
                                I want it for

                                every set and 10 doesn't really give me that - the program
                                makes up it's

                                "mind" first) and ease of working with lines (and not having
                                to either

                                keep

                                "breaking" a polyline or "re-converting" back to a polyline.
                                If I want a

                                simple "line" I don't want the program to join it to
                                ANYTHING unless I

                                want

                                to join it to something. Sections (specific section for each
                                particular

                                situation and not "generic" cross sections which really
                                don't give the

                                field guys "real" answers that are generated and not five or
                                six layers

                                deep (and all generated on the "default cad" layer) that
                                need to be

                                painstakingly gone through so that these "hidden" lines
                                don't all of a

                                sudden appear when you are in the process of printing a
                                final set for the

                                job. The list goes on and I don't want to get into a pissing
                                contest with

                                the "die-hard" Chief users vs the "other" CAD programs. I
                                want to know

                                what

                                Chief has done and has to offer and has improved (or
                                corrected) from what

                                10.8 has.

                                Any takers??

                                Thanks in advance,

                                Ted Crombie, CPBD

                                New Hampshire

                                Original Message:

                                ------------ -----

                                From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@cox. net

                                Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:18:44 -0500

                                To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                                Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                                We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient
                                with Chief.. i

                                go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                                but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got
                                X1 but took

                                one look and stcuck with version 10

                                then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took
                                a long look at

                                version 12

                                version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....

                                and the online training you get with SSA is worth the
                                money....

                                I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA ..
                                the 2d

                                license

                                has a reduced fee

                                Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that
                                version 12

                                was a good thing to move to

                                and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the
                                laptop... i

                                don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that
                                I now prefer

                                the software lock to the hardware

                                when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your
                                digital locker...

                                so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in
                                switching

                                everything to online

                                Mike Smith

                                Design / Build ~ RI

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                From: Tim O'Donnell

                                To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                                Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM

                                Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                i did not reply to your request of new features as I have
                                not upgraded

                                from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have
                                not as well...

                                i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it
                                behaved and in

                                the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for

                                me...especially the concept of needing to have constant
                                access to the

                                internet so the program could call home or it would disable

                                itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the
                                internet,

                                the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less
                                content and

                                support...

                                so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                                On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@aol. com wrote:

                                >

                                > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good
                                list at the

                                ART

                                > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a
                                ghost town in

                                > here!

                                > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet
                                there.....

                                > MattK

                                >

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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • jay malaspino
                                Ted,     It was Richard.  He has (or did in the past few years) have an office or home in Osterville.  The plans I had seen were preliminary at best. 
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 4, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ted,
                                   
                                    It was Richard.  He has (or did in the past few years) have an office or home in Osterville.  The plans I had seen were preliminary at best.  They were very crude hand drawn plans with no thought for any structural concerns. Pretty much unbuildable.
                                   
                                    I had actually framed a few homes from Royal Barry Wills designs back in the late 70's early 80's and when the plans came into the engineering department with the name of the son I was surprised to see the connection. 
                                   
                                    Sometimes I wish I had the chance to work in an architectural studio.  I realize that I don't have the design flair for it.  The structural understanding I do but I'm just not cut out to be an architect. 
                                   
                                    Hope all is well in snow country?
                                   
                                  jay

                                  --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Ted C <simplyplans@...> wrote:


                                  From: Ted C <simplyplans@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...
                                  To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 8:31 AM


                                   



                                  Jay,

                                  Back in the days when I worked there Richard Wills had taken
                                  over the firm's reins after Royal had passed on. Royal's
                                  only other son was Charlie who was a builder in the area
                                  (and an excellent one at that). As far as I knew Richard had
                                  retired (or should have - since he was in his mid forties
                                  back in the 60's) but he had a daughter who is a registered
                                  architect and was with the firm. Richard may have had sons
                                  but I'm not sure.

                                  A LOT of their drawings (details) were always kept in very
                                  well organized files and one of the first projects I was
                                  given (as a "newbie" to the firm) was to take details to be
                                  archived and to redraw them on linen (and in ink) so that
                                  they could be preserved. There were some extremely talented
                                  draftsmen working there back then and the quality of the
                                  details was, to say the least, astonishing. We each had our
                                  own "style" and it didn't take too long to be able to
                                  recognize who had drawn any particular detail, or set of
                                  plans, just by the style of the notes, pensil weights, etc..

                                  It was quite a learning experience and I gained more
                                  knowledge there than in my years at the BAC.

                                  Ted

                                  "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of
                                  arriving in a
                                  pretty and well preserved body, but rather, to skid in
                                  broadside, thoroughly
                                  used up, totally worn out, and yelling "WHOA! What a ride!"


                                  _____

                                  From: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com
                                  [mailto:chief-users@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jay
                                  malaspino
                                  Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 7:25 AM
                                  To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                  Ted,

                                  Royal Barry Wills? As recently as a few years ago I had
                                  about 1/2 dozen plans come across my desk from one of his
                                  sons. He drew by hand still. I am 45 years old and I've
                                  never seen anything so astounding in my life.......

                                  Jay

                                  --- On Sun, 1/3/10, simplyplans@
                                  <mailto:simplyplans %40webryders. net> webryders.net
                                  <simplyplans@ <mailto:simplyplans %40webryders. net>
                                  webryders.net> wrote:

                                  From: simplyplans@ <mailto:simplyplans %40webryders. net>
                                  webryders.net <simplyplans@
                                  <mailto:simplyplans %40webryders. net> webryders.net>
                                  Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...
                                  To: chief-users@ <mailto:chief- users%40yahoogro ups.com>
                                  yahoogroups. com
                                  Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 8:48 PM

                                  Hi Lenita,

                                  Like yourslf I started into this fild back in 1967 (after
                                  returning from a

                                  "lovely" - NOT! - tour of SE Asia) and, of course, CAD was
                                  not even

                                  anything more than dream in someone's mind. I worked my way
                                  up through the

                                  ranks in an architectural office (Royal Barry Wills
                                  Associates, Boston) as

                                  a draftsman and going to the BAC (Boston Architectural
                                  Center) nights. The

                                  firm I worked for did custom authentic colonial residential
                                  and, needless

                                  to say, detailing was a PRIMARY concern and I took (and
                                  still do) a great

                                  deal of pride in the work thta leaves my office. I have
                                  always had a "rule"

                                  that if I don't know how the structure is going to be able
                                  to be built and

                                  can SHOW the contractor (either on paper or, if need be, in
                                  the field) how

                                  things are going to go together then the documents are not
                                  ready to be sent

                                  out.

                                  I "fought" transitioning to CAD (AutoCAD R4, I believe) for
                                  a long time

                                  mainly because I wasn't all the impressed with it and felt
                                  my hand work was

                                  far superior and certainly a lot faster. With the
                                  improvements in computer

                                  technology and in the architectural field of CAD I finally
                                  bit the bullet

                                  and put away the parallel edge, the adjustable triangles,
                                  french curves and

                                  compasses for good.

                                  I transitioned from Autocad more because of their holier
                                  than thou attitude

                                  more than any problems with the program (except that the
                                  learning curve for

                                  each new release was extremely time consuming and
                                  frustrating) and

                                  discovered Chief while serving as a small NH town's code
                                  enforcement

                                  officer and building inspector part time. I was looking for
                                  a program that

                                  had a decent 3d program that wasn't a nightmare to use
                                  (i.e., Autocad) and

                                  yet could produce a good set of construction documents as
                                  well. Chief

                                  "appeared" to have these qualities and jumped into the fray.
                                  I soon found

                                  myself using both programs - Chief for 3d and Autocad for
                                  the working

                                  drawings - which was also very, very frustrating and time
                                  consuming.

                                  I guess the BIGGEST problem I have with Chief is that once
                                  you have created

                                  a "CAD" (2d) drawing you have severed ALL ties back to the
                                  plan drawings

                                  and when the owner wants to make changes you are basically
                                  back to square

                                  one!! GRRRR! (Clients will never understand that it is teir
                                  RESPONSIBILITY

                                  to be closely studying their project during the design stage
                                  and not

                                  waiting until the last minute to make the comment, "Oh, btw,
                                  we want to

                                  change this room around and eliminate these windows and add
                                  these, etc.,

                                  etc., etc..)(lol) The ONLY program I'm aware of that does
                                  not sever the 2d

                                  from the 3d is Archicad and that is a VERY sophisticated
                                  (and expensive)

                                  program.

                                  I have NEVER used Chief's auto dimensioning program (well,
                                  maybe once and

                                  found it was basically useless) but really get extremely
                                  upset when I have

                                  to add construction lines to a drawing in order to be able
                                  to dimension

                                  some things because Chief's dimensioning Czar inside the
                                  program doesn't

                                  think I need to know the dimension I am trying to see isn't
                                  needed!

                                  Your comments and input are also EXTREMELY helpful and
                                  certainly are to be

                                  considered in my decision making. Of course the EASIEST
                                  thing would be to

                                  simply retire and put all the frustrations behind me but
                                  Hell, who can

                                  afford to retire these days?!!

                                  Thank you for your input!!

                                  Ted

                                  Original Message:

                                  ------------ -----

                                  From: Browns bluemist@netspace. net.au

                                  Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:26 +1100

                                  To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                                  Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                  Ted,

                                  I am an Australian user - and have been using CA since
                                  Version 6.

                                  My background is drafting by hand, then I took a course to
                                  learn Generic

                                  CAD and used that program for around 6-12 months, but
                                  decided I could still

                                  draw faster by hand so went back to my drawing board.

                                  RSI prompted me to investigate CAD again, and I bought CA.
                                  It was a steep

                                  learning curve, but I perservered, and am still here.

                                  I loved version 10, and was not interested in upgrading -
                                  particularly when

                                  Australian support was discontinued. However, I noticed very
                                  few

                                  user-complaints once X2 was brought out and began to
                                  consider the upgrade.

                                  Our business is to produce working drawings for local
                                  government approval,

                                  and for builders to use on site. And we are pedantic about
                                  accuracy,

                                  dimensioning and notation in order to reduce builder's
                                  frustration, and

                                  misinterpretation.

                                  I do not convert elevation views to CAD - I make use of the
                                  3D view and add

                                  CAD as necessary. This tip was given to me by a user here in
                                  Australia -

                                  and I found Version 10 produced reasonable cross sections
                                  enabling me to

                                  add detail as necessary without too much frustration.

                                  X2 produces superior 3D cross sections which require far
                                  less CAD detailing

                                  (bonus!). It is possible to set up individual line
                                  weights/colours for the

                                  3D views (eg roof, windows, etc) as required. Roof framing
                                  can be

                                  customised better, thus producing better 3D cross sections,
                                  again

                                  eliminating the need for heaps of 2D work.

                                  I don't use automatic dimensioning too much since most of
                                  our work involves

                                  additions to existing homes - and the manual dimensioning
                                  tools work for

                                  me. There are more options for customisation in X2 dimension
                                  dbx.

                                  Polyline slabs are selectable in 3D views, and can be
                                  adjusted there as

                                  well.

                                  2D CAD tools havent changed much ..... but I have always
                                  made use of layers

                                  to prevent lines changing properties as I require. I have
                                  made blocks out

                                  of my frequently used details, and try to keep 2D to a
                                  minimum - preferring

                                  instead to make the 3D model as 'clean' as possible .... and
                                  X2 is

                                  certainly making that an easier and more achievable task.

                                  Hope this is of some assistance to you in your
                                  decision-making process!

                                  Regards,

                                  Lenita

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  From: simplyplans@ webryders. net

                                  To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                                  Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:36 AM

                                  Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                  Mike,

                                  Guess that user-group meeting was over near the coast (or at
                                  a time when

                                  work was freaking slow that gas to commute was beginning to
                                  be rationed).

                                  The biggest thing that has been holding me back from X2 (I'm
                                  still on

                                  10.8)is trying to find out just WHAT has been done to
                                  improve the CAD side

                                  of the coin. Construction documents (i.e., WORKING drawings
                                  and NOT "funny

                                  papers" as are so many designer's drawings viewed by the
                                  guys in the field

                                  who have to build from what we give them) are a big part of
                                  my work and

                                  the

                                  3d part is really more of a "bonus" than anything. Text,
                                  dimensioning (to

                                  the objects "I" want dimensioned and not what the program
                                  "thinks" I want

                                  dimensioned and getting there without feeling as though I'm
                                  re-writing the

                                  damn program on each set (if I have a dimension style I like
                                  I want it for

                                  every set and 10 doesn't really give me that - the program
                                  makes up it's

                                  "mind" first) and ease of working with lines (and not having
                                  to either

                                  keep

                                  "breaking" a polyline or "re-converting" back to a polyline.
                                  If I want a

                                  simple "line" I don't want the program to join it to
                                  ANYTHING unless I

                                  want

                                  to join it to something. Sections (specific section for each
                                  particular

                                  situation and not "generic" cross sections which really
                                  don't give the

                                  field guys "real" answers that are generated and not five or
                                  six layers

                                  deep (and all generated on the "default cad" layer) that
                                  need to be

                                  painstakingly gone through so that these "hidden" lines
                                  don't all of a

                                  sudden appear when you are in the process of printing a
                                  final set for the

                                  job. The list goes on and I don't want to get into a pissing
                                  contest with

                                  the "die-hard" Chief users vs the "other" CAD programs. I
                                  want to know

                                  what

                                  Chief has done and has to offer and has improved (or
                                  corrected) from what

                                  10.8 has.

                                  Any takers??

                                  Thanks in advance,

                                  Ted Crombie, CPBD

                                  New Hampshire

                                  Original Message:

                                  ------------ -----

                                  From: Mike Smith mfsmith1@cox. net

                                  Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 11:18:44 -0500

                                  To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                                  Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                  Tim: I hung around with version 10 for quite a while

                                  We don't do enough design work to become REALLY proficient
                                  with Chief.. i

                                  go thru periods of deswign then 6 months of no design.. etc

                                  but I've struggled thru version 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.5, 10... i got
                                  X1 but took

                                  one look and stcuck with version 10

                                  then i went to user group meeting in New Hampshire and took
                                  a long look at

                                  version 12

                                  version 12 iswithout a doubt , the best version to date....

                                  and the online training you get with SSA is worth the
                                  money....

                                  I just renewed both of our remaining licences for the SSA ..
                                  the 2d

                                  license

                                  has a reduced fee

                                  Anyways.. if you intend to remain ... my experience was that
                                  version 12

                                  was a good thing to move to

                                  and i keep one license on the office machine and one on the
                                  laptop... i

                                  don't miss my hasp one single bit.. so I was surprised that
                                  I now prefer

                                  the software lock to the hardware

                                  when you get SSA, everything you need is online in your
                                  digital locker...

                                  so , bottom line.. I think Chief has made some good moves in
                                  switching

                                  everything to online

                                  Mike Smith

                                  Design / Build ~ RI

                                  ----- Original Message -----

                                  From: Tim O'Donnell

                                  To: chief-users@ yahoogroups. com

                                  Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 8:26 AM

                                  Subject: Re: [chief-users] Features added since v9.5...

                                  i did not reply to your request of new features as I have
                                  not upgraded

                                  from v10...and i suspect many, if not most, users here have
                                  not as well...

                                  i did not like v11 when it was released, both in how it
                                  behaved and in

                                  the new pricing/licensing which i found to be onerous for

                                  me...especially the concept of needing to have constant
                                  access to the

                                  internet so the program could call home or it would disable

                                  itself....and if one had the need to be untethered from the
                                  internet,

                                  the substantial extra charges and fees they imposed for less
                                  content and

                                  support...

                                  so for me it was time to kiss them off.....

                                  On 1/3/2010 3:54 AM, mkdesignco@aol. com wrote:

                                  >

                                  > OK, I got a little more energetic and found a pretty good
                                  list at the

                                  ART

                                  > website. Wow, where is everyone these days? It's like a
                                  ghost town in

                                  > here!

                                  > Over at ChiefTalk also, but maybe not quite as quiet
                                  there.....

                                  > MattK

                                  >

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