Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [chief-users] Re:Crooked dimensions

Expand Messages
  • Tim O'Donnell
    i don t have v!! on my system any longer...so it is possible the latest patches have addressed some of this..... the gif is left over from a solobug i sent
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      i don't have v!! on my system any longer...so it is possible the latest
      patches have addressed some of this.....

      the gif is left over from a solobug i sent in...

      its basis is in the core of how they have CAD and snaps implemented..and
      the change over to make everything in v!! behave like that aspect of the
      program (and to me the CAD engine is the weakest part of the program)

      this behavior is a result of angle snaps and grid INCREMENTS being tied
      together (do not confuse this with grid snaps)......that and the
      seemingly constant need to toggle the various snap setting on/off to get
      acceptable behavior...it is very(too) easy to forget which settings work
      best for what and to not reset them for the next edit...and if you do
      remember, it is a seemingly constant need for clicking to first prepare
      for what should be simple edits

      say you have drawn you building and you have moved a wall(s) off the
      grid for some reason and want to move it back on grid..

      so you turn the grid back on...but with angle snaps on the wall will not
      move back on grid because the programmers in their infinite wisdom,
      have made the assumption that when you want to edit in an ortho mode,
      you also want to move in the grid setting INCREMENTS (which for me is
      usually 12" for best use of materials when setting up the perimeter of
      the building)...so you can not move the wall back on grid until you
      turn off the angle snaps...so you turn them off

      then you move the wall(s) onto the grid...so now you have it back on
      grid and want to pull a quick dimension and forget to return to the
      angle snap setting to turn it back on...you pull the dimension like
      shown in the gif and voila that is what can happen...in v10 you could
      pull such a dimension by as much as 2' off angle and it would still
      straighten out and be correct...

      this problem is even worse when detailing a plan as you never really
      know what it is selecting as the dimension point, or if it will
      stick....v!! has added more steps to do manual dimensions consistently
      and accurately...unnecessary ones to me...but so far to me, they do not
      see it as a problem...after all users have requested the ability to pull
      dimensions at random angles to random points (why and for what reason
      escapes me, must be fun to build from those plans)...so if it is not
      seen as a problem it is ignored by the programmers and their minions...

      their attitude in this, as much as anything is a huge problem for
      me...they simply believe that current users will buy their product w/o
      even seeing it (ala the pre-order scheme, for only a few hundred
      dollars,be first to be paying beta testers for us)

      my take on it...users know little to nothing at all of value
      ...marketing/advertising are the real brains that drive product direction



      Larry Kumpost wrote:
      > Hi Jim;
      >
      > How do you reproduce it? I have been trying with Grid Snaps on and off for 15-20 min. and haven't been able to do it yet.
      >
      > Not being argumentative. I really want to know how so I don't do it that way. :-)
      >
      > >From what I have tried so far it is not just having Grid Snaps turned on. Though that may be part of the problem in conjunction with some other setting(s). I only use the Grid Snaps for the initial layout of the building. Based on past experience I think it is a good idea to have your basic wall layout on the Chief grid to start with. Then I turn off the Grid Snap and generally keep it off. From there I use direct entry to locate walls exactly.
      >
      > Larry K.
    • rrspeer
      Having been one who used to bash CA especially about dimensioning I must admit I am very pleased with version X1. I can dimension from any point to any other
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Having been one who used to bash CA especially about dimensioning I
        must admit I am very pleased with version X1. I can dimension from
        any point to any other point with very little effort.
        Bob

        --- In chief-users@yahoogroups.com, "Tim O'Donnell" <boa@...> wrote:
        >
        > i don't have v!! on my system any longer...so it is possible the
        latest
        > patches have addressed some of this.....
        >
        > the gif is left over from a solobug i sent in...
        >
        > its basis is in the core of how they have CAD and snaps
        implemented..and
        > the change over to make everything in v!! behave like that aspect
        of the
        > program (and to me the CAD engine is the weakest part of the
        program)
        >
        > this behavior is a result of angle snaps and grid INCREMENTS being
        tied
        > together (do not confuse this with grid snaps)......that and the
        > seemingly constant need to toggle the various snap setting on/off
        to get
        > acceptable behavior...it is very(too) easy to forget which settings
        work
        > best for what and to not reset them for the next edit...and if you
        do
        > remember, it is a seemingly constant need for clicking to first
        prepare
        > for what should be simple edits
        >
        > say you have drawn you building and you have moved a wall(s) off
        the
        > grid for some reason and want to move it back on grid..
        >
        > so you turn the grid back on...but with angle snaps on the wall
        will not
        > move back on grid because the programmers in their infinite
        wisdom,
        > have made the assumption that when you want to edit in an ortho
        mode,
        > you also want to move in the grid setting INCREMENTS (which for me
        is
        > usually 12" for best use of materials when setting up the perimeter
        of
        > the building)...so you can not move the wall back on grid until
        you
        > turn off the angle snaps...so you turn them off
        >
        > then you move the wall(s) onto the grid...so now you have it back
        on
        > grid and want to pull a quick dimension and forget to return to the
        > angle snap setting to turn it back on...you pull the dimension like
        > shown in the gif and voila that is what can happen...in v10 you
        could
        > pull such a dimension by as much as 2' off angle and it would still
        > straighten out and be correct...
        >
        > this problem is even worse when detailing a plan as you never
        really
        > know what it is selecting as the dimension point, or if it will
        > stick....v!! has added more steps to do manual dimensions
        consistently
        > and accurately...unnecessary ones to me...but so far to me, they do
        not
        > see it as a problem...after all users have requested the ability to
        pull
        > dimensions at random angles to random points (why and for what
        reason
        > escapes me, must be fun to build from those plans)...so if it is
        not
        > seen as a problem it is ignored by the programmers and their
        minions...
        >
        > their attitude in this, as much as anything is a huge problem for
        > me...they simply believe that current users will buy their product
        w/o
        > even seeing it (ala the pre-order scheme, for only a few hundred
        > dollars,be first to be paying beta testers for us)
        >
        > my take on it...users know little to nothing at all of value
        > ...marketing/advertising are the real brains that drive product
        direction
        >
        >
        >
        > Larry Kumpost wrote:
        > > Hi Jim;
        > >
        > > How do you reproduce it? I have been trying with Grid Snaps on
        and off for 15-20 min. and haven't been able to do it yet.
        > >
        > > Not being argumentative. I really want to know how so I don't do
        it that way. :-)
        > >
        > > >From what I have tried so far it is not just having Grid Snaps
        turned on. Though that may be part of the problem in conjunction with
        some other setting(s). I only use the Grid Snaps for the initial
        layout of the building. Based on past experience I think it is a good
        idea to have your basic wall layout on the Chief grid to start with.
        Then I turn off the Grid Snap and generally keep it off. From there I
        use direct entry to locate walls exactly.
        > >
        > > Larry K.
        >
      • mkdesignco@aol.com
        Hi Larry: What snap dim do you set your grid to? MattK In a message dated 10/31/2007 10:56:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, lark81432@yahoo.com writes: Hi Jim; How
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 4, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Larry:
          What snap dim do you set your grid to?
          MattK

          In a message dated 10/31/2007 10:56:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          lark81432@... writes:




          Hi Jim;

          How do you reproduce it? I have been trying with Grid Snaps on and off for
          15-20 min. and haven't been able to do it yet.

          Not being argumentative. I really want to know how so I don't do it that
          way. :-)

          From what I have tried so far it is not just having Grid Snaps turned on.
          Though that may be part of the problem in conjunction with some other
          setting(s). I only use the Grid Snaps for the initial layout of the building. Based on
          past experience I think it is a good idea to have your basic wall layout on
          the Chief grid to start with. Then I turn off the Grid Snap and generally
          keep it off. From there I use direct entry to locate walls exactly.









          ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Larry Kumpost
          Hi Matt: I use use both grids as design or layout grids. I set my Grid Sap to 24 and my Visible Grid to 48 . I use gray dots for the snap grid and light
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 4, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Matt:

            I use use both grids as "design" or layout grids. I set my Grid Sap to 24" and my Visible Grid to 48". I use gray dots for the snap grid and light blue lines for the visible grid. As a side note, I keep the plan southwest corner of my building at x 144" y 144" form the 0,0 point to ensure positive numbers for all building coordinates. If the design changes that point I can always move the building later if necessary.

            In general, I use the grids for the basic layout of the building when I start a new plan. Once I have a basic outline of the building I use auto dimensions and direct entry to move walls off grid as/if necessary. As I add new information I update the auto dimensions. Where necessary I add manual dimensions. I have a "Layout" layer that I use for both guide lines and dimensions as design aids. Once I have the basic layout complete I turn off the snap grid but leave the visible grid on. From there on it is all direct entry to adjust things. On larger homes I add a visible building grid on it's own layer.

            Everything you wanted to know about the way I use grids...and, probably, then some. ;o)

            Larry K.


            ----- Original Message ----
            From: "mkdesignco@..." <mkdesignco@...>
            To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2007 10:50:06 AM
            Subject: Re: [chief-users] Re:Crooked dimensions















            Hi Larry:

            What snap dim do you set your grid to?

            MattK



            In a message dated 10/31/2007 10:56:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,

            lark81432@yahoo. com writes:



            Hi Jim;



            How do you reproduce it? I have been trying with Grid Snaps on and off for

            15-20 min. and haven't been able to do it yet.



            Not being argumentative. I really want to know how so I don't do it that

            way. :-)



            From what I have tried so far it is not just having Grid Snaps turned on.

            Though that may be part of the problem in conjunction with some other

            setting(s). I only use the Grid Snaps for the initial layout of the building. Based on

            past experience I think it is a good idea to have your basic wall layout on

            the Chief grid to start with. Then I turn off the Grid Snap and generally

            keep it off. From there I use direct entry to locate walls exactly.










            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • rrspeer
            Hi Larry, Please excuse my stupidity but I do not understand I use use both grids as design or layout grids. I set my Grid Sap to 24 andmy Visible Grid to
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 4, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Larry,
              Please excuse my stupidity but I do not understand
              "I use use both grids as "design" or layout grids. I set my Grid Sap
              to 24" andmy Visible Grid to 48". "
              It sounds like great advise but I cant find these settings.
              Thanks,
              Bob




              --- In chief-users@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kumpost <lark81432@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi Matt:
              >
              > I use use both grids as "design" or layout grids. I set my Grid Sap
              to 24" and my Visible Grid to 48". I use gray dots for the snap grid
              and light blue lines for the visible grid. As a side note, I keep the
              plan southwest corner of my building at x 144" y 144" form the 0,0
              point to ensure positive numbers for all building coordinates. If the
              design changes that point I can always move the building later if
              necessary.
              >
              > In general, I use the grids for the basic layout of the building
              when I start a new plan. Once I have a basic outline of the building
              I use auto dimensions and direct entry to move walls off grid as/if
              necessary. As I add new information I update the auto dimensions.
              Where necessary I add manual dimensions. I have a "Layout" layer that
              I use for both guide lines and dimensions as design aids. Once I
              have the basic layout complete I turn off the snap grid but leave the
              visible grid on. From there on it is all direct entry to adjust
              things. On larger homes I add a visible building grid on it's own
              layer.
              >
              > Everything you wanted to know about the way I use grids...and,
              probably, then some. ;o)
              >
              > Larry K.
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: "mkdesignco@..." <mkdesignco@...>
              > To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2007 10:50:06 AM
              > Subject: Re: [chief-users] Re:Crooked dimensions
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Larry:
              >
              > What snap dim do you set your grid to?
              >
              > MattK
              >
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 10/31/2007 10:56:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
              >
              > lark81432@yahoo. com writes:
              >
              >
              >
              > Hi Jim;
              >
              >
              >
              > How do you reproduce it? I have been trying with Grid Snaps on and
              off for
              >
              > 15-20 min. and haven't been able to do it yet.
              >
              >
              >
              > Not being argumentative. I really want to know how so I don't do
              it that
              >
              > way. :-)
              >
              >
              >
              > From what I have tried so far it is not just having Grid Snaps
              turned on.
              >
              > Though that may be part of the problem in conjunction with some
              other
              >
              > setting(s). I only use the Grid Snaps for the initial layout of
              the building. Based on
              >
              > past experience I think it is a good idea to have your basic wall
              layout on
              >
              > the Chief grid to start with. Then I turn off the Grid Snap and
              generally
              >
              > keep it off. From there I use direct entry to locate walls exactly.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Larry Kumpost
              Bob: Sorry, the quote marks for the word design may have been misleading. That s just the way I use the grids, for the initial design or layout of a building,
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 4, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Bob:

                Sorry, the quote marks for the word design may have been misleading. That's just the way I use the grids, for the initial design or layout of a building, not the name of a specific setting.

                To do this you double click on the "Select Objects" tool (white arrow) to open the "Plan Defaults" DBX:

                For "Snap Grid/Snap Units:" I enter 24", check "Show Snap Grid", use a medium gray color and check "Display as dots".

                For "Reference Grid": I enter 48", check "Show Reference Grid", select a real light blue color, but do Not check "Display as dots".


                Looks like standard graph paper with light blue lines, plus the gray dots, and makes it easier for me to layout the basic building. :o)

                Larry K.


                ----- Original Message ----
                From: rrspeer <bob@...>
                To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2007 4:16:35 PM
                Subject: [chief-users] Re:Crooked dimensions













                Hi Larry,

                Please excuse my stupidity but I do not understand

                "I use use both grids as "design" or layout grids. I set my Grid Sap

                to 24" andmy Visible Grid to 48". "

                It sounds like great advise but I cant find these settings.

                Thanks,

                Bob



                --- In chief-users@ yahoogroups. com, Larry Kumpost <lark81432@. ..>

                wrote:

                >

                > Hi Matt:

                >

                > I use use both grids as "design" or layout grids. I set my Grid Sap

                to 24" and my Visible Grid to 48". I use gray dots for the snap grid

                and light blue lines for the visible grid. As a side note, I keep the

                plan southwest corner of my building at x 144" y 144" form the 0,0

                point to ensure positive numbers for all building coordinates. If the

                design changes that point I can always move the building later if

                necessary.

                >

                > In general, I use the grids for the basic layout of the building

                when I start a new plan. Once I have a basic outline of the building

                I use auto dimensions and direct entry to move walls off grid as/if

                necessary. As I add new information I update the auto dimensions.

                Where necessary I add manual dimensions. I have a "Layout" layer that

                I use for both guide lines and dimensions as design aids. Once I

                have the basic layout complete I turn off the snap grid but leave the

                visible grid on. From there on it is all direct entry to adjust

                things. On larger homes I add a visible building grid on it's own

                layer.

                >

                > Everything you wanted to know about the way I use grids...and,

                probably, then some. ;o)

                >

                > Larry K.









                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • rrspeer
                Thanks Larry I have it set and will give it a wrill Bob ... misleading. That s just the way I use the grids, for the initial design or layout of a building,
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 4, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks Larry I have it set and will give it a wrill
                  Bob

                  --- In chief-users@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kumpost <lark81432@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Bob:
                  >
                  > Sorry, the quote marks for the word design may have been
                  misleading. That's just the way I use the grids, for the initial
                  design or layout of a building, not the name of a specific setting.
                  >
                  > To do this you double click on the "Select Objects" tool (white
                  arrow) to open the "Plan Defaults" DBX:
                  >
                  > For "Snap Grid/Snap Units:" I enter 24", check "Show Snap Grid",
                  use a medium gray color and check "Display as dots".
                  >
                  > For "Reference Grid": I enter 48", check "Show Reference Grid",
                  select a real light blue color, but do Not check "Display as dots".
                  >
                  >
                  > Looks like standard graph paper with light blue lines, plus the
                  gray dots, and makes it easier for me to layout the basic
                  building. :o)
                  >
                  > Larry K.
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message ----
                  > From: rrspeer <bob@...>
                  > To: chief-users@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2007 4:16:35 PM
                  > Subject: [chief-users] Re:Crooked dimensions
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Larry,
                  >
                  > Please excuse my stupidity but I do not understand
                  >
                  > "I use use both grids as "design" or layout grids. I set my Grid
                  Sap
                  >
                  > to 24" andmy Visible Grid to 48". "
                  >
                  > It sounds like great advise but I cant find these settings.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Bob
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In chief-users@ yahoogroups. com, Larry Kumpost <lark81432@ ..>
                  >
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Hi Matt:
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > I use use both grids as "design" or layout grids. I set my Grid
                  Sap
                  >
                  > to 24" and my Visible Grid to 48". I use gray dots for the snap
                  grid
                  >
                  > and light blue lines for the visible grid. As a side note, I keep
                  the
                  >
                  > plan southwest corner of my building at x 144" y 144" form the
                  0,0
                  >
                  > point to ensure positive numbers for all building coordinates. If
                  the
                  >
                  > design changes that point I can always move the building later if
                  >
                  > necessary.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > In general, I use the grids for the basic layout of the building
                  >
                  > when I start a new plan. Once I have a basic outline of the
                  building
                  >
                  > I use auto dimensions and direct entry to move walls off grid as/if
                  >
                  > necessary. As I add new information I update the auto dimensions.
                  >
                  > Where necessary I add manual dimensions. I have a "Layout" layer
                  that
                  >
                  > I use for both guide lines and dimensions as design aids. Once I
                  >
                  > have the basic layout complete I turn off the snap grid but leave
                  the
                  >
                  > visible grid on. From there on it is all direct entry to adjust
                  >
                  > things. On larger homes I add a visible building grid on it's own
                  >
                  > layer.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Everything you wanted to know about the way I use grids...and,
                  >
                  > probably, then some. ;o)
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Larry K.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • mkdesignco@aol.com
                  L: Thanks, very informative. MattK In a message dated 11/4/2007 12:49:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, lark81432@yahoo.com writes: Hi Matt: I use use both grids as
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 9, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    L:
                    Thanks, very informative.
                    MattK

                    In a message dated 11/4/2007 12:49:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                    lark81432@... writes:




                    Hi Matt:

                    I use use both grids as "design" or layout grids. I set my Grid Sap to 24"
                    and my Visible Grid to 48". I use gray dots for the snap grid and light blue
                    lines for the visible grid. As a side note, I keep the plan southwest corner
                    of my building at x 144" y 144" form the 0,0 point to ensure positive numbers
                    for all building coordinates. If the design changes that point I can always
                    move the building later if necessary.

                    In general, I use the grids for the basic layout of the building when I
                    start a new plan. Once I have a basic outline of the building I use auto
                    dimensions and direct entry to move walls off grid as/if necessary. As I add new
                    information I update the auto dimensions. Where necessary I add manual
                    dimensions. I have a "Layout" layer that I use for both guide lines and dimensions as
                    design aids. Once I have the basic layout complete I turn off the snap grid
                    but leave the visible grid on. From there on it is all direct entry to adjust
                    things. On larger homes I add a visible building grid on it's own layer.

                    Everything you wanted to know about the way I use grids...and, probably,
                    then some. ;o)

                    Larry K.

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: "_mkdesignco@..._ (mailto:mkdesignco@...) "
                    <_mkdesignco@..._ (mailto:mkdesignco@...) >
                    To: _chief-users@chief-users@chi_ (mailto:chief-users@yahoogroups.com)
                    Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2007 10:50:06 AM
                    Subject: Re: [chief-users] Re:Crooked dimensions

                    Hi Larry:

                    What snap dim do you set your grid to?

                    MattK

                    In a message dated 10/31/2007 10:56:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,

                    lark81432@yahoo. com writes:

                    Hi Jim;

                    How do you reproduce it? I have been trying with Grid Snaps on and off for

                    15-20 min. and haven't been able to do it yet.

                    Not being argumentative. I really want to know how so I don't do it that

                    way. :-)

                    From what I have tried so far it is not just having Grid Snaps turned on.

                    Though that may be part of the problem in conjunction with some other

                    setting(s). I only use the Grid Snaps for the initial layout of the
                    building. Based on

                    past experience I think it is a good idea to have your basic wall layout on

                    the Chief grid to start with. Then I turn off the Grid Snap and generally

                    keep it off. From there I use direct entry to locate walls exactly.

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    _http://mail.http://ma_ (http://mail.yahoo.com/)

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









                    ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.