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Re: [*CCM*] another angry pedestrian at the BLT

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  • Limber, Jim
    ... How about a real-time survey? Make a few signs to raise when blocking intersections- like HONK IF YOU LOVE BIKES! Count the different horn-sounds and
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 9, 2008
      On Tue, September 9, 2008 4:30 pm, heather stratton wrote:
      >>
      >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Benjamin Schneider
      >> <bensch_@...>wrote:
      >>
      >> Do you think
      >> everyone else who has encountered CCM is "happy or at
      >> least neutral"?
      >>
      >>
      > Yeah, I do. But my point is that most people, even those
      > who get annoyed by
      > being stopped in traffic, know how to just let it go.

      How about a real-time survey? Make a few signs to raise when
      blocking intersections- like "HONK IF YOU LOVE BIKES!"
      Count the different horn-sounds and subtract from the
      estimated number of motor-vehicles....


      jl

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    • Anne Alt
      On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM, heather stratton ... Exactly. Most people have some ability to let go of the momentary things and not obsess to the point of
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 9, 2008
        On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM, heather stratton
        <heather.stratton@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Benjamin Schneider <bensch_@...>wrote:
        >> And this is exactly the type of driver that I don't want to encounter on my
        >> bike during a neighborhood ride with friends or my commute to
        >> work.....That's two complaints registered to the website. Do you think
        >> everyone else who has encountered CCM is "happy or at least neutral"?
        >>
        >>
        > Yeah, I do. But my point is that most people, even those who get annoyed by
        > being stopped in traffic, know how to just let it go. After all, they don't
        > hate other drivers despite being stuck behind other cars every day -- for
        > some bizarre reason, they just accept gridlock as part of life when it is
        > caused, for example, by a car crash.

        Exactly. Most people have some ability to let go of the momentary
        things and not obsess to the point of yelling obscenities, screaming
        threats or using their vehicles as 4-wheeled lethal weapons.

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      • Eric Pancer
        ... And those that don t are probably the same types who make those same threats in person. I don t believe cars really make Assholes out of people; it s the
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 9, 2008
          On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Anne Alt <anne.alt@...> wrote:
          > Exactly. Most people have some ability to let go of the momentary
          > things and not obsess to the point of yelling obscenities, screaming
          > threats or using their vehicles as 4-wheeled lethal weapons.

          And those that don't are probably the same types who make those same
          threats in person.

          I don't believe cars really make Assholes out of people; it's the
          person that lives up to that in their everyday life.

          - Eric

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        • Jane Healy
          ... You can always reiterate to angry pedestrians with you know, it really IS criminal how many drivers almost run down pedestrians every day ... just keep
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 9, 2008
            In a message dated 9/9/08 2:30:31 AM, dkorn@... writes:


            > You know, I hear lots of stories from people who claim to have been 
            > nearly run down by cyclists, or almost hit, or had close calls.  It 
            > seems that cyclists *almost* get into crashes with pedestrians all the 
            > time.  It's an epidemic of almosts!
            >
            > Yet despite all these anecdotal near misses, I very rarely hear of a 
            > case where someone walking is actually hit by a cyclist, and it's even 
            > rarer to hear of serious injuries or fatalities.
            >
            > On the other hand, more than one pedestrian is killed by a car in 
            > Chicago every week (on average), and many more are injured.  So I 
            > wonder why everyone seems to get more riled up by the cyclists who 
            > "almost" hit them than by the car drivers who actually do hit them, 
            > and all too often kill them.  Maybe some of the victims simply don't 
            > live to tell their stories.
            >

            You can always reiterate to angry pedestrians with "you know, it really IS
            criminal how many drivers almost run down pedestrians every day"... just keep
            switching cyclist to car driver and parrot them back. Most people have no idea
            how to respond to this when you do it.

            Jane








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          • T.S. Collins
            ... From: Steven Lane To: CHI-CRIT-MASS@UIC.EDU Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2008 1:44:37 PM Subject: Re: [*CCM*] another angry
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 9, 2008
              ----- Original Message ----

              From: Steven Lane <thestevenlane@...>
              To: CHI-CRIT-MASS@...
              Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2008 1:44:37 PM
              Subject: Re: [*CCM*] another angry pedestrian at the BLT

              >I think that refers to the fact we have always heard the complaint,
              >"CM only makes things worse for cyclists."

              I first learned of CM when I was living in S.F. and was always told that it was the reason for all the great and clearly marked bike lanes and signs around the city. I was also told it was a protest ride to show the politicians, thus why it begins at City Hall, and drivers that we, cyclists that is, are here and that there are enough of us that you have to account for us when designing and driving the streets. I would suggest that if someone wants to learn more about CM try and find a copy of Chris Carlsson's book Critical Mass: Bicycling's Defiant Celebration.

              Personal note, it's eazy to criticize things when you don't understand all the complexities and history of a thing but there are those who have taken time to think and look into things and if they see something isn't right or what it really should be the can atleast offer constructive criticism and sometimes even personal sacrifice and time to make things right or better. Let's not take the easy way out our country's politicians have been doing that for far to long and look it the mess our nation is in.





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            • Todd Gee
              ... I disagree. I can t believe that all those folks who drive aggressively, who pull stunts like jackrabbit starts out of the right hand turn space to cut
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 10, 2008
                --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Eric Pancer <epancer@...> wrote:

                > I don't believe cars really make Assholes out
                > of people; it's the person that lives up to
                > that in their everyday life.

                I disagree.

                I can't believe that all those folks who drive aggressively, who pull stunts like jackrabbit starts out of the right hand turn space to "cut" in front of other motorists would do the same thing, say in line at the bank.

                It's the relative anonymity that gives people the license they feel.

                Maybe these people are assholes that just don't act it in public -- in which case you'd be right. My point is that being in a car makes people act worse than they generally would.

                t

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              • Eric T Cormack
                I remember reading an article on the correlation between the size of a primate s brain and the size of its social group. It suggested that beyond 150 people,
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 10, 2008
                  I remember reading an article on the correlation between the size of a
                  primate's brain and the size of its social group. It suggested that beyond
                  150 people, a person doesn't have the biological mental capacity to treat
                  complete stranger with as much respect as they would a friend or even an
                  acquaintance, and therefore they are far more forgiving of friends the same
                  grievances for which they would deck another person. It doesn't excuse
                  their behaviour; I'm just positing it as an alternate explanation for why
                  motorists and pedestrians will call one an asshole.

                  2008/9/10 Jym Dyer <jym@...>

                  > >> "Maybe these people are assholes that just don't act it in
                  > >> public -- in which case you'd be right. My point is that
                  > >> being in a car makes people act worse than they generally
                  > >> would."
                  >
                  > =v= Anonymity and lack of accountability does that.
                  >
                  > > Perhaps, but until I see evidence published by a legitimate
                  > > research endeavor, I will kindly disagree.
                  >
                  > =v= Here's the landmark 1950 study by Walker, Wheeler _et_al_:
                  >
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgiVicpZGk
                  >
                  > It doesn't get any more legit than that.
                  > <_Jym_>
                  >
                  > --
                  > Green Bay Steelers for Truth
                  >
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                  >

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