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[Cheetahtemplate-discuss] Systemwide Cheetah installation

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  • Edmund Lian
    I notice that Cheetah now installs itself in ~/site-packages/Webware/Cheetah rather than ~/site-packages/Cheetah as it used to. This makes sense for me since I
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 11, 2002
      I notice that Cheetah now installs itself in
      ~/site-packages/Webware/Cheetah rather than ~/site-packages/Cheetah as it
      used to.

      This makes sense for me since I currently use Cheetah (or at least, am
      trying to!) with Webware. However, shouldn't Cheetah really be installed in
      ~/site-packages/Cheetah since it is nominally independent of Webware?


      ...Edmund.


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    • Mike Orr
      ... Why does Cheetah have to go inside the Webware/ directory? The imports should work the same whether it s in site-packages/Webware/ or site-packages/, no?
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 11, 2002
        On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:19:46AM -0800, Tavis Rudd wrote:
        > Ah, did I forget to post a note about that?? Yes, it's installing to
        > .../site-packages/Webware/Cheetah now. This is to make it work
        > seemlessly with the experimental version of Webware I've been working
        > on, and the official Webware when the transition is finally made to a
        > distutils install.

        Why does Cheetah have to go inside the Webware/ directory? The imports
        should work the same whether it's in site-packages/Webware/ or
        site-packages/, no?

        --
        -Mike (Iron) Orr, iron@... (if mail problems: mso@...)
        http://iron.cx/ English * Esperanto * Russkiy * Deutsch * Espan~ol

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      • Mike Orr
        ... In other words, Cheetah is being put in a suboptimal location (which makes no sense to sites who use Cheetah without Webware) because of a limitation in
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 11, 2002
          On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 12:00:24PM -0800, Tavis Rudd wrote:
          > On Monday 11 March 2002 10:50, Mike Orr wrote:
          > > On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:19:46AM -0800, Tavis Rudd wrote:
          > > > Ah, did I forget to post a note about that?? Yes, it's installing
          > > > to .../site-packages/Webware/Cheetah now. This is to make it work
          > > > seemlessly with the experimental version of Webware I've been
          > > > working on, and the official Webware when the transition is
          > > > finally made to a distutils install.
          > >
          > > Why does Cheetah have to go inside the Webware/ directory? The
          > > imports should work the same whether it's in site-packages/Webware/
          > > or site-packages/, no?
          >
          > Correct, however Webware needs some way of detecting installed
          > components (i.e. Kits). The current release of Webware just looks in
          > the ./Webware/ dir. The future distutils-based release (and the
          > current experimental release) will look in .../site-packages/Webware/
          > (and any other Webware/ dir along the user's PYTHONPATH). I argued
          > against this when Chuck proposed it originally, but it makes things
          > like online help and example applications very easy.

          In other words, Cheetah is being put in a suboptimal location (which
          makes no sense to sites who use Cheetah without Webware) because of
          a limitation in Webware's kit-detection mechanism. Perhaps we should
          focus on that problem instead.

          How about putting Cheetah in site-packages/ and a symlink pointing to
          it in Webware/ ? That would put Cheetah where it belongs (as a general
          Python package) while still allowing Webware to work with it. And the
          existence of the ugly symlink would be an incentive to improve Webware's
          kit situation so that the link is not needed.

          Why does Cheetah need to be a kit anyway? Is it just for the automatic
          serving of *.tmpl files, which is disabled now? (BTW, what's the status
          on that? I am finding again that, the more I use Cheetah servlets, the
          more my opinions are beginning to change. Being able to run a *.tmpl
          servlet directly *would* be convenient..)

          Perhaps Webware can ship with directories for all known kits, even if
          the kit is not installed, and just ignore the directories if they don't
          exist. Or the sysadmin can explicitly put Cheetah's location into the
          kit search path. Or we can come up with some better mechanism for
          automatically registering kits wherever they are located.

          --
          -Mike (Iron) Orr, iron@... (if mail problems: mso@...)
          http://iron.cx/ English * Esperanto * Russkiy * Deutsch * Espan~ol

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        • Tavis Rudd
          Ah, did I forget to post a note about that?? Yes, it s installing to .../site-packages/Webware/Cheetah now. This is to make it work seemlessly with the
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 11, 2002
            Ah, did I forget to post a note about that?? Yes, it's installing to
            .../site-packages/Webware/Cheetah now. This is to make it work
            seemlessly with the experimental version of Webware I've been working
            on, and the official Webware when the transition is finally made to a
            distutils install.


            On Monday 11 March 2002 10:02, Edmund Lian wrote:
            > I notice that Cheetah now installs itself in
            > ~/site-packages/Webware/Cheetah rather than ~/site-packages/Cheetah
            > as it used to.
            >
            > This makes sense for me since I currently use Cheetah (or at least,
            > am trying to!) with Webware. However, shouldn't Cheetah really be
            > installed in ~/site-packages/Cheetah since it is nominally
            > independent of Webware?

            There's nothing lost by putting it there. It will still work fine,
            even if Webware is not installed on the system.

            Tavis

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          • Mike Orr
            ... It just means that Why do I have this funny Webware/ directory when I m not using Webware? will become a FAQ. -- -Mike (Iron) Orr, iron@mso.oz.net (if
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 11, 2002
              On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 12:36:33PM -0800, Tavis Rudd wrote:
              > On Monday 11 March 2002 11:14, Mike Orr wrote:
              > > In other words, Cheetah is being put in a suboptimal location
              > > (which makes no sense to sites who use Cheetah without Webware)
              > > because of a limitation in Webware's kit-detection mechanism.
              > > Perhaps we should focus on that problem instead.
              >
              > How is this this a suboptimal location??? It has absolutely no
              > effect on how Cheetah is used.

              It just means that "Why do I have this funny Webware/ directory when I'm
              not using Webware?" will become a FAQ.

              --
              -Mike (Iron) Orr, iron@... (if mail problems: mso@...)
              http://iron.cx/ English * Esperanto * Russkiy * Deutsch * Espan~ol

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            • Tavis Rudd
              ... Correct, however Webware needs some way of detecting installed components (i.e. Kits). The current release of Webware just looks in the ./Webware/ dir.
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 11, 2002
                On Monday 11 March 2002 10:50, Mike Orr wrote:
                > On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 11:19:46AM -0800, Tavis Rudd wrote:
                > > Ah, did I forget to post a note about that?? Yes, it's installing
                > > to .../site-packages/Webware/Cheetah now. This is to make it work
                > > seemlessly with the experimental version of Webware I've been
                > > working on, and the official Webware when the transition is
                > > finally made to a distutils install.
                >
                > Why does Cheetah have to go inside the Webware/ directory? The
                > imports should work the same whether it's in site-packages/Webware/
                > or site-packages/, no?

                Correct, however Webware needs some way of detecting installed
                components (i.e. Kits). The current release of Webware just looks in
                the ./Webware/ dir. The future distutils-based release (and the
                current experimental release) will look in .../site-packages/Webware/
                (and any other Webware/ dir along the user's PYTHONPATH). I argued
                against this when Chuck proposed it originally, but it makes things
                like online help and example applications very easy.

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              • Tavis Rudd
                ... How is this this a suboptimal location??? It has absolutely no effect on how Cheetah is used. ... Symlinks aren t available on Windows so we can t do
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 11, 2002
                  On Monday 11 March 2002 11:14, Mike Orr wrote:
                  > In other words, Cheetah is being put in a suboptimal location
                  > (which makes no sense to sites who use Cheetah without Webware)
                  > because of a limitation in Webware's kit-detection mechanism.
                  > Perhaps we should focus on that problem instead.

                  How is this this a suboptimal location??? It has absolutely no
                  effect on how Cheetah is used.

                  > How about putting Cheetah in site-packages/ and a symlink pointing
                  > to it in Webware/ ? That would put Cheetah where it belongs (as a
                  > general Python package) while still allowing Webware to work with
                  > it. And the existence of the ugly symlink would be an incentive to
                  > improve Webware's kit situation so that the link is not needed.

                  Symlinks aren't available on Windows so we can't do that.

                  > Why does Cheetah need to be a kit anyway? Is it just for the
                  > automatic serving of *.tmpl files, which is disabled now? (BTW,
                  > what's the status on that? I am finding again that, the more I use
                  > Cheetah servlets, the more my opinions are beginning to change.
                  > Being able to run a *.tmpl servlet directly *would* be
                  > convenient..)

                  I agree. Now we just need to find someone with the time and
                  motivation to implement it.


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                • Tavis Rudd
                  ... So what? _______________________________________________ Cheetahtemplate-discuss mailing list Cheetahtemplate-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 11, 2002
                    On Monday 11 March 2002 11:40, Mike Orr wrote:
                    > On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 12:36:33PM -0800, Tavis Rudd wrote:
                    > > On Monday 11 March 2002 11:14, Mike Orr wrote:
                    > > > In other words, Cheetah is being put in a suboptimal location
                    > > > (which makes no sense to sites who use Cheetah without Webware)
                    > > > because of a limitation in Webware's kit-detection mechanism.
                    > > > Perhaps we should focus on that problem instead.
                    > >
                    > > How is this this a suboptimal location??? It has absolutely no
                    > > effect on how Cheetah is used.
                    >
                    > It just means that "Why do I have this funny Webware/ directory
                    > when I'm not using Webware?" will become a FAQ.

                    So what?

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