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[Cheetahtemplate-discuss] Re: templetor and cheetah

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  • Tavis Rudd
    ... Isn t that just a style issue. Most cheetah coders use indentation to format their Cheetah code. Why force it? Btw, all of Cheetah s core syntax tokens
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 27 3:51 PM
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      On Monday 27 February 2006 2:54 pm, Aaron Swartz wrote:
      > > Aaron, why on Earth are you creating yet another template language?
      > > Cheetah, for one, meets all of your 6 stated requirements, although #1
      > > and #6 are matters of opinion. You wrote me just last month to say how
      > > much you liked Cheetah. What has changed since then?
      >
      > I do like Cheetah (the language) and that's why my templating system
      > looks so much like it -- most language changes I made were relatively
      > minor ones ($ instead of #, \ instead of #slurp). The only major
      > change was mandatory indenting and that was because I found that long
      > pieces of Cheetah code were unreadable because of indentation issues.
      Isn't that just a style issue. Most cheetah coders use indentation to format
      their Cheetah code. Why force it?

      Btw, all of Cheetah's core syntax tokens are configurable. If you don't like
      the # you can change it to something else. This also applies to #slurp.
      There is a single-char version of it, and it is configurable to any regex.

      > I do not, however, like Cheetah (the implementation). I don't
      > understand its conceptual model of subclassing and things, the code is
      > too complicated for me to follow or try to modify,

      Which begs the question, why do you need to modify it? If you have specific
      desires for things to be added or changed you could simply join the Cheetah
      mailing list and ask about them. If we agreed about those things I'd
      probably just code it myself. Otherwise, I'd either point you in the right
      direction or show you an example of how to do it without writing new code.

      > and converting
      > things to Python doesn't strike me as even potentially sandboxable
      > (requirement 5), since Python itself isn't sandboxable.

      This is already implemented in Cheetah. It does it by filtering code at
      compile time, not by sandboxing Python at run time. You can make it as
      restrictive or permissive as you wish. See my post about it on
      http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=106&thread=146606&start=45&msRange=15

      > On the other hand, I screwed up by not talking to you before I
      > started writing templetor. I hope it's not too late to come to some
      > sort of resolution. (Feel free to email me off-list.)
      Don't worry, I'm not pissed off. I'm just rather amazed that you'd blaze off
      and start from scratch before firing off an email to Cheetah list about any
      issues you have. It is a lot of work to complete a project like this! Sure
      your initial codebase is smaller and you understand it better. But what
      about unit tests, documentation, and the benefits of years of feedback and
      testing? As far as I can tell, you don't have a single line of documentation
      or automated test code yet. Wouldn't you rather spend your time on web.py or
      other projects?

      To put the codebase size/complexity issue in perspective, Cheetah's original
      implementation was a single module file with roughly same amount of code as
      your template.py.

      Tavis
      http://groups.google.com/group/webpy/browse_frm/thread/2f22dcb62cab8fee/5a5b846e35fcf161#5a5b846e35fcf161



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    • Shannon -jj Behrens
      We ve all thought about writing our own templating engine, especially if you re a perfectionist like me. The fact of the matter is, though, that Cheetah is
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 27 5:08 PM
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        We've all thought about writing our own templating engine, especially
        if you're a perfectionist like me. The fact of the matter is, though,
        that Cheetah is solid, mature, well written, well documented software.
        It's not perfect, but it's used in production all over the world, and
        any new problems get resolved *very* quickly.

        There's enough bad software in the world that it's a waste of time to
        rewrite the good software ;)

        -jj

        On 2/27/06, Tavis Rudd <tavis@...> wrote:
        > On Monday 27 February 2006 2:54 pm, Aaron Swartz wrote:
        > > > Aaron, why on Earth are you creating yet another template language?
        > > > Cheetah, for one, meets all of your 6 stated requirements, although #1
        > > > and #6 are matters of opinion. You wrote me just last month to say how
        > > > much you liked Cheetah. What has changed since then?
        > >
        > > I do like Cheetah (the language) and that's why my templating system
        > > looks so much like it -- most language changes I made were relatively
        > > minor ones ($ instead of #, \ instead of #slurp). The only major
        > > change was mandatory indenting and that was because I found that long
        > > pieces of Cheetah code were unreadable because of indentation issues.
        > Isn't that just a style issue. Most cheetah coders use indentation to format
        > their Cheetah code. Why force it?
        >
        > Btw, all of Cheetah's core syntax tokens are configurable. If you don't like
        > the # you can change it to something else. This also applies to #slurp.
        > There is a single-char version of it, and it is configurable to any regex.
        >
        > > I do not, however, like Cheetah (the implementation). I don't
        > > understand its conceptual model of subclassing and things, the code is
        > > too complicated for me to follow or try to modify,
        >
        > Which begs the question, why do you need to modify it? If you have specific
        > desires for things to be added or changed you could simply join the Cheetah
        > mailing list and ask about them. If we agreed about those things I'd
        > probably just code it myself. Otherwise, I'd either point you in the right
        > direction or show you an example of how to do it without writing new code.
        >
        > > and converting
        > > things to Python doesn't strike me as even potentially sandboxable
        > > (requirement 5), since Python itself isn't sandboxable.
        >
        > This is already implemented in Cheetah. It does it by filtering code at
        > compile time, not by sandboxing Python at run time. You can make it as
        > restrictive or permissive as you wish. See my post about it on
        > http://www.artima.com/forums/flat.jsp?forum=106&thread=146606&start=45&msRange=15
        >
        > > On the other hand, I screwed up by not talking to you before I
        > > started writing templetor. I hope it's not too late to come to some
        > > sort of resolution. (Feel free to email me off-list.)
        > Don't worry, I'm not pissed off. I'm just rather amazed that you'd blaze off
        > and start from scratch before firing off an email to Cheetah list about any
        > issues you have. It is a lot of work to complete a project like this! Sure
        > your initial codebase is smaller and you understand it better. But what
        > about unit tests, documentation, and the benefits of years of feedback and
        > testing? As far as I can tell, you don't have a single line of documentation
        > or automated test code yet. Wouldn't you rather spend your time on web.py or
        > other projects?
        >
        > To put the codebase size/complexity issue in perspective, Cheetah's original
        > implementation was a single module file with roughly same amount of code as
        > your template.py.
        >
        > Tavis
        > http://groups.google.com/group/webpy/browse_frm/thread/2f22dcb62cab8fee/5a5b846e35fcf161#5a5b846e35fcf161
        >
        >
        >
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        > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language
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        > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory!
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        > Cheetahtemplate-discuss mailing list
        > Cheetahtemplate-discuss@...
        > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cheetahtemplate-discuss
        >


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