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Re: Uniforms - but not made in Russia

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  • bir46
    Hi Dave&all, The outlines of Gelayev s reunion with the resistance was reported on the Kavkaz, and also re-reported here, message # 25569, too. That far, the
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 1, 2002
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      Hi Dave&all,

      The outlines of Gelayev's reunion with the resistance was reported on
      the Kavkaz, and also re-reported here, message # 25569, too.

      That far, the resistance obviously hadn't ties nor knew about
      Gelayev's whereabouts, just according to these clips pasted here every
      now and then, during these years.

      Here after, it looks like that the united resistance just made
      groundless, even ridiculous, the so-far Russian statement, e.g. a
      pretext to continue this unsuccessful military adventure, that "it's
      no use to negotiate for a political solution because not Mashhadov nor
      anyone is in charge on the Chechen side".

      Dave, do you see any other way or prospect to put an end to this
      peculiar war exept negotiations ?

      Because it's quite clear that in the so-called military way the
      Russians are able to do nothing but ridicule further on themselves in
      the NATO meetings etc. places and that's however quite comic from an
      ex-super power by any standard - even by a vivid NATO standard.

      Just sincerely, BIR

      --------------------------------------------
      >
      > Hi Dave,
      >
      > There was a short description of Gelayev's encounter with Maskhadov
      > after his arrival in Chechnya (cf. message # 25692), which the
      Viktor
      > Popkov Centre claims it has received directly from Gelayev's
      > environment:
      >
      > " (snip)
      >
      > According to Viktor Popkov IAC sources from the environment of
      Gelayev,
      > the Chechen commander, on his return to Chechnya, contacted and
      possibly
      > personally met with ChRI President Aslan Maskhadov. Maskhadov
      inquired
      > Ruslan Gelayev which post he wanted to take. Gelayev answered that
      he
      > wasn't interested in posts and had come to fight. "If you want to
      fight,
      > I'll fight with you", the Chechen commander said literally.
      >
      > (snip) "
      >
      > Best regards,
      > Norbert
    • d_robinet
      First of all, Norbert & BIR: Thanks for the replies in pointing the right message out. I appreciate it. RE: The reacceptance of Gelayev Those examples are good
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 1, 2002
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        First of all, Norbert & BIR: Thanks for the replies in pointing the
        right message out. I appreciate it.

        RE: The reacceptance of Gelayev

        Those examples are good in that they mention when he first came
        back, but it doesn't speak as to the reason for the change of heart -
        if, in fact, Maskhadov was the one who welcomed him back or if it was
        a directive from the "council" or whatever. I doubt we'll see that,
        for obvious reasons.

        I suppose what I'm saying is... someone who is summarily dismissed
        doesn't just "come back" when they feel like it. They need to either
        approach the contacts first and be forgiven, or be sought out by
        someone and re-admitted. The messages quoted don't really speak of
        this - only that he did, in fact, come back.

        BIR:

        No, there is no other way to end this conflict other than
        negotiations and a prolonged period of peace. I think the conflict
        has now reached a complete stalemate, in as much as the Basque issue
        has. Neither the Chechens nor the Basques would be able to mount a
        campaign to simply take control - but neither of them can be
        completely crushed. Given the state of the Chechen fighters, and the
        likely shifting of the focus in command, there will ALWAYS be people
        to fight on the territory of Chechnya and the surrounding areas -
        even if they're not Chechens. So, while the Russians can (and do)
        control the territory, and for all intents and purposes they've
        actually achieved their goals of having it a part of Russia, they'll
        never have a peaceful existence. The control doesn't really extend
        beyond what a police squad can do in the midst of riots - they can
        disperse the rioters, they can arrest or kill certain leaders, but if
        the rioters spread out, there is no way to stop them all.

        Even if 15 fighters decided to plant the occasional landmine in the
        road, that is likely to represent weekly casualties for Russian
        forces.

        What has to happen for negotiations to succeed is that an
        alternative must be put forward that - to put it callously - makes it
        more attractive for the Russians to withdraw rather than to continue
        losing 10 troops per week and keep control. My personal opinion has
        always been - and always continue to be - that neither side has
        proven themselves even remotely capable (or willing) to guarantee
        security for themselves and the opposing side and therefore can't be
        trusted to do the policing. Only an international force can do that.
        However, an international force is unlikely to be welcomed by either
        side, given the Russian history of their openness to an international
        presence, or (what I believe) is a fundamental shift in the focus of
        a sizeable amount of the Chechen forces towards a more Islamic (and
        less "free Chechnya") ideal.

        The unified Chechen resistance doesn't increase the possibility of
        peace, by any means. You either believe that the Russian command is
        willing to continue to suffer ongoing casualties, or you don't - and
        the amount of Chechen resistance doesn't affect this belief. I've
        seen it said several times here that many of you believe that the
        Russian generals and chain of command don't care how many soldiers
        die if an objective is taken - if you truly believe that, then the
        only reason to cheer the unified Chechen resistance is that they'll
        inflict more casualties. Not that they'll win back Chechen territory.
        MAYBE they can encourage the Russians to hit civilians less...

        Negotiations are a must, yes.

        Dave

        --- In chechnya-sl@y..., "bir46" <bir46@y...> wrote:
        > Hi Dave&all,
        >
        > The outlines of Gelayev's reunion with the resistance was reported
        on
        > the Kavkaz, and also re-reported here, message # 25569, too.
        >
        > That far, the resistance obviously hadn't ties nor knew about
        > Gelayev's whereabouts, just according to these clips pasted here
        every
        > now and then, during these years.
        >
        > Here after, it looks like that the united resistance just made
        > groundless, even ridiculous, the so-far Russian statement, e.g. a
        > pretext to continue this unsuccessful military adventure,
        that "it's
        > no use to negotiate for a political solution because not Mashhadov
        nor
        > anyone is in charge on the Chechen side".
        >
        > Dave, do you see any other way or prospect to put an end to this
        > peculiar war exept negotiations ?
        >
        > Because it's quite clear that in the so-called military way the
        > Russians are able to do nothing but ridicule further on themselves
        in
        > the NATO meetings etc. places and that's however quite comic from
        an
        > ex-super power by any standard - even by a vivid NATO standard.
        >
        > Just sincerely, BIR
        >
        > --------------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Hi Dave,
        > >
        > > There was a short description of Gelayev's encounter with
        Maskhadov
        > > after his arrival in Chechnya (cf. message # 25692), which the
        > Viktor
        > > Popkov Centre claims it has received directly from Gelayev's
        > > environment:
        > >
        > > " (snip)
        > >
        > > According to Viktor Popkov IAC sources from the environment of
        > Gelayev,
        > > the Chechen commander, on his return to Chechnya, contacted and
        > possibly
        > > personally met with ChRI President Aslan Maskhadov. Maskhadov
        > inquired
        > > Ruslan Gelayev which post he wanted to take. Gelayev answered
        that
        > he
        > > wasn't interested in posts and had come to fight. "If you want to
        > fight,
        > > I'll fight with you", the Chechen commander said literally.
        > >
        > > (snip) "
        > >
        > > Best regards,
        > > Norbert
      • bir46
        Dear Dave, As regards to The unified Chechen resistance doesn t increase the possibility of peace, by any means. You either believe that the Russian command
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 7, 2002
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          Dear Dave,

          As regards to "The unified Chechen resistance doesn't increase the
          possibility of peace, by any means. You either believe that the
          Russian command is willing to continue to suffer ongoing casualties,
          or you don't - and the amount of Chechen resistance doesn't affect
          this belief. I've seen it said several times here that many of you
          believe that the Russian generals and chain of command don't care how
          many soldiers die if an objective is taken - if you truly believe
          that, then the only reason to cheer the unified Chechen resistance is
          that they'll inflict more casualties. Not that they'll win back
          Chechen territory. MAYBE they can encourage the Russians to hit
          civilians less...

          And given that for example these articles tell the truth
          realistically - or even approximately,
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/25922
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/25910
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/25855
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/25781

          In that regard on the Russian side, it just looks like that not alone
          single soldiers but the whole Russian army becomes, more or less, the
          casualty of the war against the ChRI.

          And even if they - the generals and chain of command - didn't care
          much about single ones, they finally have to care about their whole
          one - or bravely hit their own soldiers' quite civilian mothers
          more...

          But yes. Negotiations look like a must - for the shake of Russia.

          Sincerely BIR
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