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Re: CP: ChRI (question about ulema)

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  • mariuslab2002
    ... -snip- ... An important event at the military conference was the presence of one of the leaders of the Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI, theologian* Abdul-
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 31, 2002
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      --- In chechnya-sl@y..., Norbert Strade <nost@p...> wrote:
      > ChRI President A. Maskhadov leads a military conference
      >
      -snip-
      >
      An important event at the military conference was the presence of one
      of the leaders of the Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI, theologian* Abdul-
      Halim, who reported the full subordination of the Islamic military
      units to the Commander-in-chief of the ChRI Armed Forces, A.
      Maskhadov. His presence was the worthy response to the Russian
      special services, which in recent days have spread provocative
      reports about a split in the resistance movement.
      >
      > -snip>
      >
      H. Hasuhanov, GIA Chechenpress,
      > 01 April 2002.
      >
      > http://www.chechenpress.com/news/04_2002/9_01_04.shtml

      > [My translation]

      ----------------------------------------------------------------------

      * Assuming that that Hasuhanov's communique is correct; in the
      Russian original there, this word is "alima" which I think could be
      translated to English as ulema. I'm curious, can an ulema
      command a military force and still be in line with Islamic law?
      According to the below; there's nothing about military role for ulema
      in Saudi Arabia. M.L.



      The Role of the Ulema (Religious Leaders)
      The role of the Ulema in Saudi Arabia has a long history and great
      significance.
      The first alliance between Muhammad bin Saud and Imam Muhammad bin
      Abdul Wahhab, and its continued success through the years, reflect
      the important role played by the Ulema in Saudi Arabia. That first
      alliance was both political and religious in nature and clearly
      emphasized the true notion of the state in Islam; that is, state and
      religion are inseparable. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is an example
      of an Islamic state governed by the Holy Qur'an. It is therefore
      inevitable that the Ulema should play a key role within the Kingdom.
      They play an influential part in the following fields of government:

      The judicial system of Saudi Arabia

      The implementation of the rules of the Islamic Shari'ah

      Religious Guidance Group with affiliated offices all over the Kingdom

      Religious education, that is, Islamic legal education and theology at
      all levels in Saudi Arabia.

      Religious jurisprudence

      Preaching and guidance throughout the nation

      Supervision of girls' education

      Religious supervision of all Mosques in the Kingdom

      Preaching of Islam abroad

      Continuous scientific and Islamic research

      Notaries public

      The handling of legal cases in courts according to Islamic law
    • Andrew McGregor
      Does anyone have any information about the theologian, Abdul Halim mentioned in this report as a leader of the Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI ? Thanks ...
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
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        Does anyone have any information about 'the
        theologian, Abdul Halim' mentioned in this report as a
        leader of the 'Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI'?

        Thanks

        --- Norbert Strade <nost@...> wrote:

        <HR>
        <html><body>


        <tt>
        ChRI President A. Maskhadov leads a military
        conference<BR>
        <BR>
        A military conference of front and area commanders,
        dealing with the<BR>
        final stage of the preparation for an offensive by the
        Chechen troops,<BR>
        took place yesterday in one of the mountain districts
        of the ChRI.<BR>
        <BR>
        The conference was conducted under the leadership of
        the<BR>
        Commander-in-chief of the ChRI Armed Forces, A.
        Maskhadov. According to<BR>
        a participant in this meeting, the commander of the
        Gudermes military<BR>
        sector Uvais Inderbiyev, the commanders made a number
        of important<BR>
        corrections to the plan of the outlined offensive.<BR>
        <BR>
        An important event at the military conference was the
        presence of one of<BR>
        the leaders of the Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI,
        theologian Abdul-Halim,<BR>
        who reported the full subordination of the Islamic
        military units to the<BR>
        Commander-in-chief of the ChRI Armed Forces, A.
        Maskhadov. His presence<BR>
        was the worthy response to the Russian special
        services, which in recent<BR>
        days have spread provocative reports about a split in
        the resistance<BR>
        movement.<BR>
        <BR>
        At the conclusion of the military conference, ChRI
        President A.<BR>
        Maskhadov took the floor, declaring that a fast
        retribution awaits the<BR>
        Russian war criminals for the gravest crimes against
        humanity, committed<BR>
        on Chechen ground.<BR>
        <BR>
        H. Hasuhanov, GIA Chechenpress,<BR>
        01 April 2002.<BR>
        <BR>
        <a
        href="http://www.chechenpress.com/news/04_2002/9_01_04.shtml">http://www.chechenpress.com/news/04_2002/9_01_04.shtml</a><BR>
        [My translation]<BR>
        <BR>
        <BR>
        </tt>

        <br>

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      • Norbert Strade
        ... (snip) ... Dear Marius and list, Just for the record: I don t demand any authority with regard to those translations, doing it as well as I can when
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
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          mariuslab2002 wrote:

          > --- In chechnya-sl@y..., Norbert Strade <nost@p...> wrote:
          > > ChRI President A. Maskhadov leads a military conference
          > >
          > -snip-
          > >
          > An important event at the military conference was the presence of one
          > of the leaders of the Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI, theologian* Abdul-
          > Halim,

          (snip)

          > * Assuming that that Hasuhanov's communique is correct; in the
          > Russian original there, this word is "alima" which I think could be
          > translated to English as ulema. I'm curious, can an ulema
          > command a military force and still be in line with Islamic law?
          > According to the below; there's nothing about military role for ulema
          > in Saudi Arabia. M.L.

          Dear Marius and list,

          Just for the record: I don't demand any authority with regard to those
          translations, doing it as well as I can when there's little time.
          He was called an "academic alim" in the original, that is, an "academic
          Islamic scholar". I don't have any idea what the correct title would be in
          English, so I simply took a shortcut and made him a "theologian".

          Best regards,
          Norbert
        • mariuslab2002
          ... From the info below(from our archives) one can assume that Abdul- Khalim is just a commander of military force of one of Jaamats. M.L. -snip- The Chechen
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
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            --- In chechnya-sl@y..., Andrew McGregor <glenorchyca@y...> wrote:
            > Does anyone have any information about 'the
            > theologian, Abdul Halim' mentioned in this report as a
            > leader of the 'Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI'?
            >
            >
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            From the info below(from our archives) one can assume that Abdul-
            Khalim is just a commander of military force of one of Jaamats. M.L.

            -snip-
            The Chechen side reported that eight Chechen mojahedin were killed
            over the last four days, including two Islamic volunteers. Three
            Chechen fighters from Amir Abdul-Khalim's subunit were killed when
            planting a remote-controlled landmine in the area of Staryye Atagi
            village. Another two fighters were killed in shootouts in their
            native villages - Tsa-Vedeno and Novyye Atagi.

            Source: Kavkaz-Tsentr news agency web site, in Russian, 15 May 01
          • M. Othman
            ... -snip- ... An important event at the military conference was the presence of one of the leaders of the Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI, theologian* Abdul-
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
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              --- In chechnya-sl@y..., Norbert Strade <nost@p...> wrote:
              > ChRI President A. Maskhadov leads a military conference
              >
              -snip-
              >
              An important event at the military conference was the presence of one
              of the leaders of the Islamic Jamaats of the ChRI, theologian* Abdul-
              Halim, who reported the full subordination of the Islamic military
              units to the Commander-in-chief of the ChRI Armed Forces, A.
              Maskhadov. His presence was the worthy response to the Russian
              special services, which in recent days have spread provocative
              reports about a split in the resistance movement.
              >
              > -snip>
              >
              H. Hasuhanov, GIA Chechenpress,
              > 01 April 2002.
              >
              > http://www.chechenpress.com/news/04_2002/9_01_04.shtml

              > [My translation]

              ----------------------------------------------------------------------

              >>
              * Assuming that that Hasuhanov's communique is correct; in the
              Russian original there, this word is "alima" which I think could be
              translated to English as ulema.
              <<

              Dear Marius,
              The word "ulema", meaning scholars (or persons of knowledge), is
              the plural of "alim" i.e. scholar (or a person of knowledge).
              They are derived from "Elm", literally meaning "knowledge".

              It looks like, in Russian, the word "alima" is used instead of "alim", I am not sure.
              To me it sounds like a female scholar.
              "Alim" is masculine (male scholar) and "alima" is feminine ( a female scholar).

              >>
              I'm curious, can an ulema command a military force and still be in line with Islamic law?
              <<

              Yes, according to Islamic law, a scholar can command a military force.


              >>
              According to the below; there's nothing about military role for ulema
              in Saudi Arabia. M.L.
              <<

              In * theory *, the whole system is based on Islam and its laws.
              But, to cut a long story short - ;) ..... "ulema" here are not military commanders.

              Best regards.
              Mohammed
              ----------------------------------------------------------
              The Role of the Ulema (Religious Leaders)
              The role of the Ulema in Saudi Arabia has a long history and great
              significance.
              The first alliance between Muhammad bin Saud and Imam Muhammad bin
              Abdul Wahhab, and its continued success through the years, reflect
              the important role played by the Ulema in Saudi Arabia. That first
              alliance was both political and religious in nature and clearly
              emphasized the true notion of the state in Islam; that is, state and
              religion are inseparable. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is an example
              of an Islamic state governed by the Holy Qur'an. It is therefore
              inevitable that the Ulema should play a key role within the Kingdom.
              They play an influential part in the following fields of government:

              The judicial system of Saudi Arabia

              The implementation of the rules of the Islamic Shari'ah

              Religious Guidance Group with affiliated offices all over the Kingdom

              Religious education, that is, Islamic legal education and theology at
              all levels in Saudi Arabia.

              Religious jurisprudence

              Preaching and guidance throughout the nation

              Supervision of girls' education

              Religious supervision of all Mosques in the Kingdom

              Preaching of Islam abroad

              Continuous scientific and Islamic research

              Notaries public

              The handling of legal cases in courts according to Islamic law

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • mariuslab2002
              ... of alim , I am not sure. ... female scholar). ... Dear Mohammed, I apologize for my mistake, sometimes after midnight my mind doesn t work so clearly. In
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 1, 2002
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                --- In chechnya-sl@y..., "M. Othman" <mm@n...> wrote:
                > --- In chechnya-sl@y..., Norbert Strade <nost@p...> wrote:
                > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----
                >
                > >>
                > * Assuming that that Hasuhanov's communique is correct; in the
                > Russian original there, this word is "alima" which I think could be
                > translated to English as ulema.
                > <<
                >
                > Dear Marius,
                > The word "ulema", meaning scholars (or persons of knowledge), is
                > the plural of "alim" i.e. scholar (or a person of knowledge).
                > They are derived from "Elm", literally meaning "knowledge".
                >
                > It looks like, in Russian, the word "alima" is used instead
                of "alim", I am not sure.
                > To me it sounds like a female scholar.
                > "Alim" is masculine (male scholar) and "alima" is feminine ( a
                female scholar).
                >
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                Dear Mohammed,

                I apologize for my mistake, sometimes after midnight my mind doesn't
                work so clearly. In Slavic languages not only verbs, but also nouns
                can change and that depends on what a sentence says (I think that's
                called declension in grammar). So, even if this particular sentence
                has word "alima" in it, that still means "alim" - a male scholar.

                Thanks for your explanation.

                Best,

                Marius
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