Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Russia admits: 5,000 Rebels Left

Expand Messages
  • Kristjan Sander
    ... Well, there might be something behind the Russian estimations of rebel forces. I mean that the amount of fighters actually changes, doesn t it? There were
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 1 7:06 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      > MOSCOW, Feb 1, 2001 -- (Agence France Presse) Russia announced Thursday it
      > would intensify its air operations in Chechnya as security officials
      > admitted there were still 5,000 rebels fighting in the breakaway republic,
      > well above earlier official estimates.

      Well, there might be something behind the Russian estimations of rebel
      forces. I mean that the amount of fighters actually changes, doesn't it?
      There were certainly much less fighters in Spring, after the retreat from
      Grozny and before the massive guerilla campaign.

      Emmil, what do you think, how much has the number of actual fighters (not
      supporters, but the men who are actually fighting, being trained to fight or
      expecting an order to fight) changed in time?

      I am glad to read that the amount of fighters has risen so much that
      Russians claim that there are 5000 of them. Admitting that, Russians also
      admit a kind of defeat -- despite of all their efforts, the force they are
      fighting with has gained additional strength.

      > Military sources had previously put the number of active rebels at around
      > 1,000.
      >
      > "The defense ministry has achieved the main objectives" in eliminating the
      > main rebel groups, the security chief said.

      That's great -- the main groups of "rebels" are eliminated and the number of
      rebel fighters has risen FIVE TIMES. Cool.

      Kristjan
    • Petr Janouch
      ... Dear Kristjan, dear list, I fear that there is no reason to be glad here. Yes, finally the Russians admitted that they had been lying which we knew all
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 1 10:22 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        > I am glad to read that the amount of fighters has risen so much that
        > Russians claim that there are 5000 of them. Admitting that, Russians
        > also admit a kind of defeat -- despite of all their efforts, the
        > force they are fighting with has gained additional strength.

        Dear Kristjan, dear list,

        I fear that there is no reason to be glad here. Yes, finally the
        Russians admitted that they had been lying which "we knew all the
        time." But had they been actually lying? We suppose so, but we do not
        know. Where does Patrushev have the information from? He would not be
        so reckless as to say there are more fighters and at the same time talk
        about "achieved main objectives", would he?

        What we know is that the "sudden" increase of fighters serves as a
        justification for stepping up the military operations in Chechnya only
        ten days after the official announcements about the reduction of the
        troops was made.

        "Admitting" there are more fighters than previously announced only
        serves as a pretext. "Increasing the number of aircraft in Chechnya to
        fulfill combat tasks" might return the war to its initial stage in a
        way. Patrushev surely knows what he is talking about. More air raids
        and more civilian casualties.

        Sincerely,

        Petr

        By the way, in the brilliant movie Dark Side of the World made by my
        compatriots, a Chechen man compares the Russian air raids to birds
        shitting poisonous shit. Without any intention to be rude, Patrushev's
        statement can be commented as: Oh, more shit.

        __________________________________________________
        Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
        a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
      • Rafal Trzaskowski
        Russia to Step up Air Ops in Chechnya, Admits 5,000 Rebels Left MOSCOW, Feb 1, 2001 -- (Agence France Presse) Russia announced Thursday it would intensify its
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 1 12:57 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          Russia to Step up Air Ops in Chechnya, Admits 5,000 Rebels Left

          MOSCOW, Feb 1, 2001 -- (Agence France Presse) Russia announced Thursday it
          would intensify its air operations in Chechnya as security officials
          admitted there were still 5,000 rebels fighting in the breakaway republic,
          well above earlier official estimates.

          Additional warplanes will be deployed in the region and based at Mozdok in
          neighboring North Ossetia, ITAR-TASS quoted airforce commander General
          Anatoly Kornukov as saying.

          "We shall have to increase the number of aircraft in Chechnya to fulfil
          combat tasks," he said, adding that airforce commanders had met military
          leaders in the region to coordinate activities against the Chechen rebels.

          The head of the Russian security services FSB, formerly the KGB, Nikolai
          Patrushev, said that around 5,000 rebels were still fighting, including
          1,500 who in his view were unlikely ever to surrender, the Interfax news
          agency reported.

          The task of the FSB, which last month replaced the army as Moscow's
          operational arm in Chechnya, would be "to put a stop the rebels' operations
          and to the activities of their leaders and to bring order to the republic,"
          the agency reported him as saying.

          Military sources had previously put the number of active rebels at around
          1,000.

          "The defense ministry has achieved the main objectives" in eliminating the
          main rebel groups, the security chief said.

          The FSB has located the whereabouts of rebel leaders Shamil Basayev and his
          lieutenant Khattab, he added.


          _________________________________________________________________________
          Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
        • chechenistan@yahoo.com
          hi, Interesting pullout: soldiers get out, instead come more intensive bombardments. Obviously losses were so high that now it s time crash the rest of what is
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 1 1:18 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            hi,

            Interesting pullout: soldiers get out, instead come more intensive
            bombardments. Obviously losses were so high that now it's time crash
            the rest of what is alive on the territory: villages, forests,
            mountains, peaceful and not.
            Interesting method of establishing order.
            And also, location of Khattab is known, why not start acting?
            Yasterzhembsky apparatus (lying machine) is losing last molecules of
            credibility.

            Reshat.

            > Additional warplanes will be deployed in the region and based at
            Mozdok in
            > neighboring North Ossetia, ITAR-TASS quoted airforce commander
            General
            > Anatoly Kornukov as saying.
            >
            > "We shall have to increase the number of aircraft in Chechnya to
            fulfil
            > combat tasks," he said, adding that airforce commanders had met
            military
            > leaders in the region to coordinate activities against the Chechen
            rebels.
            >
            [...]
            > The task of the FSB, which last month replaced the army as Moscow's
            > operational arm in Chechnya, would be "to put a stop the rebels'
            operations
            > and to the activities of their leaders and to bring order to the
            republic,"
            > the agency reported him as saying.

            > "The defense ministry has achieved the main objectives" in
            eliminating the
            > main rebel groups, the security chief said.
            >
            > The FSB has located the whereabouts of rebel leaders Shamil Basayev
            and his
            > lieutenant Khattab, he added.
          • janos@lobb.com
            ... tively reducing the russian forces in Chechnia. By the way, if KGB is in th= e main role now, does not this mean that Russia recognizes Chechnia as an in=
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 1 4:10 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In chechnya-sl@y..., chechenistan@y... wrote:
              > hi,
              >
              > Interesting pullout: soldiers get out, instead come more intensive
              > bombardments. Obviously losses were so high that now it's time crash
              > the rest of what is alive on the territory: villages, forests,
              > mountains, peaceful and not.
              > Interesting method of establishing order.
              > And also, location of Khattab is known, why not start acting?

              They are acting. That is how they achieve high losses. That is what effec=
              tively reducing the russian forces in Chechnia. By the way, if KGB is in th=
              e main role now, does not this mean that Russia recognizes Chechnia as an in=
              dependent country again de facto by using its secret service against her ins=
              tead of the internal police force ?
              János




              > Yasterzhembsky apparatus (lying machine) is losing last molecules of
              > credibility.
              >
              > Reshat.
              >
              > > Additional warplanes will be deployed in the region and based at
              > Mozdok in
              > > neighboring North Ossetia, ITAR-TASS quoted airforce commander
              > General
              > > Anatoly Kornukov as saying.
              > >
              > > "We shall have to increase the number of aircraft in Chechnya to
              > fulfil
              > > combat tasks," he said, adding that airforce commanders had met
              > military
              > > leaders in the region to coordinate activities against the Chechen
              > rebels.
              > >
              > [...]
              > > The task of the FSB, which last month replaced the army as Moscow's
              > > operational arm in Chechnya, would be "to put a stop the rebels'
              > operations
              > > and to the activities of their leaders and to bring order to the
              > republic,"
              > > the agency reported him as saying.
              >
              > > "The defense ministry has achieved the main objectives" in
              > eliminating the
              > > main rebel groups, the security chief said.
              > >
              > > The FSB has located the whereabouts of rebel leaders Shamil Basayev
              > and his
              > > lieutenant Khattab, he added.
            • Dilan Rajasingham
              Hi just a question: if they have found khattab and co (which I doubt) why would they tell the press when they would strike ?; or perhaps the mission to get
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 1 7:00 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi just a question: if they have found khattab and co (which I doubt) why
                would they tell the press when they would strike ?; or perhaps the mission
                to get them is under way and they haven't told anyone.

                In fact as to not alert the people they are trying to capture one would
                assume that they have already begun/ almost completed the operation.

                Then again, perhaps they know what region he is in (which must be quite a
                big step from what they previously knew), and they are trying to find his
                locataion more precisely ?.

                Perhaps "the lying master" is not lying this time ?....I know its hard to
                believe given his reputation.

                Only time will tell.

                As for bringing in more aircraft I don't think that this in itself justifies
                that a slaughter is going to happen, especially due to troop losses which I
                once again say would probably be around 15,000-20,000 dead or wounded.

                Although it is probably a viable reason.


                [Quoted message removed by the moderator]
              • Mikhail Ramendik
                Hello janos, Friday, February 02, 2001, 3:10:18 AM, you wrote: jlc tively reducing the russian forces in Chechnia. By the way, if jlc KGB is in th= e main
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 3 8:28 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello janos,

                  Friday, February 02, 2001, 3:10:18 AM, you wrote:
                  jlc> tively reducing the russian forces in Chechnia. By the way, if
                  jlc> KGB is in th= e main role now, does not this mean that Russia
                  jlc> recognizes Chechnia as an in= dependent country again de facto by
                  jlc> using its secret service against her ins= tead of the internal
                  jlc> police force ?

                  No, not really. The FSB's duties include internal security as well as
                  external.

                  -- Best regards, Mikhail
                  mailto:mikhram@...
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.