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Re: [charlesives] Re: Corporate Greed

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  • Gene Halaburt
    Hi, Scott~ Not positive, but I believe the performances are the same as are probably on Nonesuch HB-73025. The notes that accompany the Smithsonian CDs do not
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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      Hi, Scott~

      Not positive, but I believe the performances are the same as are probably on
      Nonesuch HB-73025. The notes that accompany the Smithsonian CDs do not
      reference the Nonesuch release, but show the performances as coming from
      Folkways LPs FM3346-3347. The performances date from 1964, and I rather doubt
      that Kalish and Zukofsky recorded them twice.

      Best,

      Gene


      At 02:43 PM 7/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:

      >Gene,
      >
      >Are these Smithsonian recordings of the violin sonatas the same as
      >the ones that were released on Nonesuch LPs? Or did Kalish &
      >Zukofsky record this music twice?
      >
      >Scott
      >
      >BTW, I wish Bridge would try to get their Fulkerson/Shannon violin
      >sonatas on a single disc too. I bet the full 2-disc price scares
      >away many buyers.
      >
      >
      >--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Gene Halaburt <ghal@v...> wrote:
      > > Just to get it off my chest.... I recently purchased two CDs from
      > > Smithsonian Folkways Recordings,
      > > CI's four violin sonatas with Paul Zukofsky and Gilbert Kalish. The
      > > original recordings were made in
      > > 1964. The price owas 19.95 USD for each CD, plus shipping, for a
      >total of
      > > 45.40 USD. First off, the
      > > performances are superb and I love them. No, the performances are
      >not the
      > > problem. When I check
      > > the timings of the CDs, I find that one runs 40:34, the other
      >39:19. Yep,
      > > the four sonatas total time is
      > > 79:50. So why aren't the fours sonatas offered on one CD? You
      >tell me.
      > >
      > > -Gene
      >
      >
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    • tony cole
      Recorded 1974 (not 64) I m sure - and the same as originally issued by Nonesuch - no finer accounts ever put on disc.......Tony. ... From: Scott Mortensen To:
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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        Recorded 1974 (not '64) I'm sure - and the same as originally issued by Nonesuch - no finer accounts ever put on disc.......Tony.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Scott Mortensen
        To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 3:43 PM
        Subject: [charlesives] Re: Corporate Greed


        Gene,

        Are these Smithsonian recordings of the violin sonatas the same as
        the ones that were released on Nonesuch LPs? Or did Kalish &
        Zukofsky record this music twice?

        Scott

        BTW, I wish Bridge would try to get their Fulkerson/Shannon violin
        sonatas on a single disc too. I bet the full 2-disc price scares
        away many buyers.


        --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Gene Halaburt <ghal@v...> wrote:
        > Just to get it off my chest.... I recently purchased two CDs from
        > Smithsonian Folkways Recordings,
        > CI's four violin sonatas with Paul Zukofsky and Gilbert Kalish. The
        > original recordings were made in
        > 1964. The price owas 19.95 USD for each CD, plus shipping, for a
        total of
        > 45.40 USD. First off, the
        > performances are superb and I love them. No, the performances are
        not the
        > problem. When I check
        > the timings of the CDs, I find that one runs 40:34, the other
        39:19. Yep,
        > the four sonatas total time is
        > 79:50. So why aren't the fours sonatas offered on one CD? You
        tell me.
        >
        > -Gene


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      • Gene Halaburt
        ... Interesting....This from the first page of the notes that accompanied the Smithsonian discs: Recorded under the supervision of Samuel Caharters at Judspn
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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          At 11:26 PM 7/2/2004 +0100, Tony wrote:

          >Recorded 1974 (not '64) I'm sure - and the same as originally issued by
          >Nonesuch - no finer accounts ever put on disc.......Tony.

          Interesting....This from the first page of the notes that accompanied the
          Smithsonian discs:

          "Recorded under the supervision of Samuel Caharters at Judspn Hall, New
          York, June 16, 17, and 18, 1964.
          Recording engineer, David Hancock."

          Also, in the Kalish bio at the end of the "notes" they state:

          "Gilbert Kalish, although just 29, has long been...."

          Since Kalish was born in 1935, one would assume that note was written in
          1964 or 1965.....

          -Gene
        • tony cole
          OOPs - yes, Gene, I ve mislead you all........clearly the Smithsonian ones are PZ/GK s 64 performances, but the liner notes for the Nonesuch recordings also
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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            OOPs - yes, Gene, I've mislead you all........clearly the Smithsonian ones are PZ/GK's '64 performances, but the liner notes for the Nonesuch recordings also clearly state these as being new ones of '74 taking into account their access to John Kirkpatrick's "comparison of sources". This two-LP set also contains the largo from the pre-first sonata. Tony
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Gene Halaburt
            To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:45 PM
            Subject: Re: [charlesives] Re: Corporate Greed


            At 11:26 PM 7/2/2004 +0100, Tony wrote:

            >Recorded 1974 (not '64) I'm sure - and the same as originally issued by
            >Nonesuch - no finer accounts ever put on disc.......Tony.

            Interesting....This from the first page of the notes that accompanied the
            Smithsonian discs:

            "Recorded under the supervision of Samuel Caharters at Judspn Hall, New
            York, June 16, 17, and 18, 1964.
            Recording engineer, David Hancock."

            Also, in the Kalish bio at the end of the "notes" they state:

            "Gilbert Kalish, although just 29, has long been...."

            Since Kalish was born in 1935, one would assume that note was written in
            1964 or 1965.....

            -Gene


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          • mskahuna2002
            Here s a very well written, thoughtful review of a New York Carter and Ives concert. What a joy it is to read reviews that are literate, written with
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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              Here's a very well written, thoughtful review of a New York Carter and
              Ives concert. What a joy it is to read reviews that are literate,
              written with knowledge and feeling ! (a thank you, too, to Bob and
              orthers who do that on amazon)

              http://www.musicweb.uk.net/SandH/2004/May-Aug04/ives_175.htm
            • Scott Mortensen
              I wish I could have been there! Sounds great. Speaking of live performances, have any of you checked the Ives Society list of upcoming concerts recently?
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                I wish I could have been there! Sounds great.

                Speaking of live performances, have any of you checked the Ives Society list
                of upcoming concerts recently?

                http://www.charlesives.org/events.shtml

                The concert that caught my eye: An Ives "Song Marathon" on August 15 in
                Highland Park, Illinois. Every one of Ives' songs are going to be
                performed! I think it's part of the Ravinia Festival. I might need to make
                a trip up to Chi-town for this one.

                Incidentally, Anne, Aimard will be performing the "Concord" in London on
                August 30th. (Got tickets yet? ;-)

                Take care.

                Scott


                ************************************
                "The fabric of existence weaves itself whole..." -- Charles Ives
                Visit a Charles Ives Website:
                http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives

                Join a Charles Ives Discussion List:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/charlesives/






                >From: "mskahuna2002" <anne.ozorio@...>
                >Reply-To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                >To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [charlesives] Ives and Carter
                >Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:22:14 -0000
                >
                >Here's a very well written, thoughtful review of a New York Carter and
                >Ives concert. What a joy it is to read reviews that are literate,
                >written with knowledge and feeling ! (a thank you, too, to Bob and
                >orthers who do that on amazon)
                >
                >http://www.musicweb.uk.net/SandH/2004/May-Aug04/ives_175.htm
                >
                >
                >
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
                Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
                Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
              • Bob Zeidler
                Anne wrote: (a thank you, too, to Bob and orthers who do that on amazon) ... Thanks for the compliment, Anne. There s also Scott Morrison (not Mortensen),
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                  Anne wrote:

                  (a thank you, too, to Bob and orthers who do that on amazon)

                  ------------------------

                  Thanks for the compliment, Anne. There's also Scott Morrison
                  (not Mortensen), who's posted here in the past.

                  And, in addition to his reviews of the New York concert scene on
                  Music Web UK, Bruce Hodges is also an Amazon reviewer:

                  http://snipurl.com/7j5z

                  Thanks to a lead that Scott (Mortensen) left some weeks ago, I've
                  been reading (and have just finished) Michael Broyles's
                  "Mavericks and Other Tradtions in American Music." I'm presently
                  writing a review of the book (hopefully done later today or
                  perhaps tomorrow). This book was an expensive exercise, in
                  that I'm now also following up on acquiring CDs of composers
                  I've somehow managed to overlook in the last half-century:
                  Anthony Philip Heinrich, Harry Partch and Meredith Monk, to
                  name just three.

                  Partch is turning out to be quite a revelation for me. His
                  "Delusion of the Fury" can best be described as mind-blowing.
                  What a shame that performances of his music (of course
                  requiring his instruments) died with him, and that
                  surround-sound DVD wasn't available 30 years ago!

                  Bob
                • Anne Ozorio
                  ... How i d love to be at that one !!! I ll mention this to my song friends - maybe we can persuade Mary Ann Hart herself !! if you go, please, please
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                    > The concert that caught my eye: An Ives "Song Marathon" on August 15
                    > in Highland Park, Illinois. Every one of Ives' songs are going to be
                    > performed! I think it's part of the Ravinia Festival. I might need to
                    > make a trip up to Chi-town for this one.

                    How i'd love to be at that one !!! I'll mention this to my song
                    friends - maybe we can persuade Mary Ann Hart herself !! if you go,
                    please, please report.
                    >
                    > Incidentally, Anne, Aimard will be performing the "Concord" in London
                    > on August 30th. (Got tickets yet? ;-)

                    Not yet, it's a lunchtime concert so it's tricky for me to commute to
                    town for it. However, I'm trying to get a ticket to the Proms big
                    bash, the FOURTH ! That is something I'd really like to hear live.
                    A friend conducted it and the Universe, and said it wa quite an
                    experience. This is on 24th July and will be broadcast live on
                    www.bbc.co.uk. Most likely it will be repeated all the following
                    week as it's one of the "significant" ones. Conductor is Sakari
                    Oramo, whose work is always unusual and imaginative. He recently did
                    Elgar in a most unique way, and was raved. Orchestra is Birmingham S
                    O who are well used to Ives, after years of Rattle.

                    On Sunday 22nd there's another concert worth hearing. (Prom 49)

                    Ives, arr. John Adams and William Brohn
                    Songs of Ragtime and Reminiscence (21 mins)
                    Ives orch. Adams: Down East
                    Cannon orch. Brohn: Bill Bailey, Won't You Please Come Home?
                    Gershwin orch. Brohn: The Real American Folk Song (Is a Rag)
                    Ives orch. Adams: Serenity
                    Harris orch. Brohn: After the Ball
                    Ives orch. Adams: At the River
                    Berlin orch. Brohn: AlexanderÂ’s Ragtime Band
                    UK premiere

                    John Adams will be speaking before the programme. Also, they'll be
                    performing McPhee's Tabuh tabuha, the 1930's (?) Balinese piece
                    which has had such a profound impact on modern music (think Britten).
                    It's a BBC favourite, surprisingly often programmed. Wonder what
                    Adams will say about the Ives songs ? Wonder what the new versions
                    will be like ? This is going to be unique. If we do a CD tree on
                    this, it will be a classic.

                    At times like this I'm glad to pay tax because it serves the whole
                    world. Will we get all this free and internationally if Murdoch and
                    his pals in government get their way and run the BBC their way ?


                    Anne
                    anne.ozorio@...
                  • tony cole
                    My ticket for Aimard/Concord/Vic-Albert museum/30 Aug. arrived last week............Tony. ... From: Scott Mortensen To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                      My ticket for Aimard/Concord/Vic-Albert museum/30 Aug. arrived last week............Tony.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Scott Mortensen
                      To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:11 PM
                      Subject: RE: [charlesives] Ives and Carter


                      I wish I could have been there! Sounds great.

                      Speaking of live performances, have any of you checked the Ives Society list
                      of upcoming concerts recently?

                      http://www.charlesives.org/events.shtml

                      The concert that caught my eye: An Ives "Song Marathon" on August 15 in
                      Highland Park, Illinois. Every one of Ives' songs are going to be
                      performed! I think it's part of the Ravinia Festival. I might need to make
                      a trip up to Chi-town for this one.

                      Incidentally, Anne, Aimard will be performing the "Concord" in London on
                      August 30th. (Got tickets yet? ;-)

                      Take care.

                      Scott


                      ************************************
                      "The fabric of existence weaves itself whole..." -- Charles Ives
                      Visit a Charles Ives Website:
                      http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives

                      Join a Charles Ives Discussion List:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/charlesives/






                      >From: "mskahuna2002" <anne.ozorio@...>
                      >Reply-To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: [charlesives] Ives and Carter
                      >Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:22:14 -0000
                      >
                      >Here's a very well written, thoughtful review of a New York Carter and
                      >Ives concert. What a joy it is to read reviews that are literate,
                      >written with knowledge and feeling ! (a thank you, too, to Bob and
                      >orthers who do that on amazon)
                      >
                      >http://www.musicweb.uk.net/SandH/2004/May-Aug04/ives_175.htm
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
                      Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx


                      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                    • tony cole
                      Anne, - Jenny and I will be at the 4th Prom too.............Tony ... From: Anne Ozorio To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:46 PM
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                        Anne, - Jenny and I will be at the "4th" Prom too.............Tony
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Anne Ozorio
                        To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:46 PM
                        Subject: RE: [charlesives] Ives and Carter



                        > The concert that caught my eye: An Ives "Song Marathon" on August 15
                        > in Highland Park, Illinois. Every one of Ives' songs are going to be
                        > performed! I think it's part of the Ravinia Festival. I might need to
                        > make a trip up to Chi-town for this one.

                        How i'd love to be at that one !!! I'll mention this to my song
                        friends - maybe we can persuade Mary Ann Hart herself !! if you go,
                        please, please report.
                        >
                        > Incidentally, Anne, Aimard will be performing the "Concord" in London
                        > on August 30th. (Got tickets yet? ;-)

                        Not yet, it's a lunchtime concert so it's tricky for me to commute to
                        town for it. However, I'm trying to get a ticket to the Proms big
                        bash, the FOURTH ! That is something I'd really like to hear live.
                        A friend conducted it and the Universe, and said it wa quite an
                        experience. This is on 24th July and will be broadcast live on
                        www.bbc.co.uk. Most likely it will be repeated all the following
                        week as it's one of the "significant" ones. Conductor is Sakari
                        Oramo, whose work is always unusual and imaginative. He recently did
                        Elgar in a most unique way, and was raved. Orchestra is Birmingham S
                        O who are well used to Ives, after years of Rattle.

                        On Sunday 22nd there's another concert worth hearing. (Prom 49)

                        Ives, arr. John Adams and William Brohn
                        Songs of Ragtime and Reminiscence (21 mins)
                        Ives orch. Adams: Down East
                        Cannon orch. Brohn: Bill Bailey, Won't You Please Come Home?
                        Gershwin orch. Brohn: The Real American Folk Song (Is a Rag)
                        Ives orch. Adams: Serenity
                        Harris orch. Brohn: After the Ball
                        Ives orch. Adams: At the River
                        Berlin orch. Brohn: Alexander's Ragtime Band
                        UK premiere

                        John Adams will be speaking before the programme. Also, they'll be
                        performing McPhee's Tabuh tabuha, the 1930's (?) Balinese piece
                        which has had such a profound impact on modern music (think Britten).
                        It's a BBC favourite, surprisingly often programmed. Wonder what
                        Adams will say about the Ives songs ? Wonder what the new versions
                        will be like ? This is going to be unique. If we do a CD tree on
                        this, it will be a classic.

                        At times like this I'm glad to pay tax because it serves the whole
                        world. Will we get all this free and internationally if Murdoch and
                        his pals in government get their way and run the BBC their way ?


                        Anne
                        anne.ozorio@...


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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Gene Halaburt
                        ... I just heard from Gilbert Kalish, who informs me that he and Paul Zukofsky did indeed record the sonatas twice, once in 1964 for Folkways and then some ten
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                          At 07:36 AM 7/3/2004 +0100, Tony wrote:

                          >OOPs - yes, Gene, I've mislead you all........clearly the Smithsonian ones
                          >are PZ/GK's '64 performances, but the liner notes for the Nonesuch
                          >recordings also clearly state these as being new ones of '74 taking into
                          >account their access to John Kirkpatrick's "comparison of sources". This
                          >two-LP set also contains the largo from the pre-first sonata.


                          I just heard from Gilbert Kalish, who informs me that he and Paul Zukofsky
                          did indeed record the sonatas twice, once
                          in 1964 for Folkways and then some ten years later for Nonesuch. When I am
                          able to obtain a copy of the OOP Nonesuch recording, I look forward to
                          being able to compare the two performances.

                          -Gene
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