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Re: Corporate Greed

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  • Scott Mortensen
    Gene, Are these Smithsonian recordings of the violin sonatas the same as the ones that were released on Nonesuch LPs? Or did Kalish & Zukofsky record this
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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      Gene,

      Are these Smithsonian recordings of the violin sonatas the same as
      the ones that were released on Nonesuch LPs? Or did Kalish &
      Zukofsky record this music twice?

      Scott

      BTW, I wish Bridge would try to get their Fulkerson/Shannon violin
      sonatas on a single disc too. I bet the full 2-disc price scares
      away many buyers.


      --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Gene Halaburt <ghal@v...> wrote:
      > Just to get it off my chest.... I recently purchased two CDs from
      > Smithsonian Folkways Recordings,
      > CI's four violin sonatas with Paul Zukofsky and Gilbert Kalish. The
      > original recordings were made in
      > 1964. The price owas 19.95 USD for each CD, plus shipping, for a
      total of
      > 45.40 USD. First off, the
      > performances are superb and I love them. No, the performances are
      not the
      > problem. When I check
      > the timings of the CDs, I find that one runs 40:34, the other
      39:19. Yep,
      > the four sonatas total time is
      > 79:50. So why aren't the fours sonatas offered on one CD? You
      tell me.
      >
      > -Gene
    • Gene Halaburt
      Hi, Scott~ Not positive, but I believe the performances are the same as are probably on Nonesuch HB-73025. The notes that accompany the Smithsonian CDs do not
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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        Hi, Scott~

        Not positive, but I believe the performances are the same as are probably on
        Nonesuch HB-73025. The notes that accompany the Smithsonian CDs do not
        reference the Nonesuch release, but show the performances as coming from
        Folkways LPs FM3346-3347. The performances date from 1964, and I rather doubt
        that Kalish and Zukofsky recorded them twice.

        Best,

        Gene


        At 02:43 PM 7/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:

        >Gene,
        >
        >Are these Smithsonian recordings of the violin sonatas the same as
        >the ones that were released on Nonesuch LPs? Or did Kalish &
        >Zukofsky record this music twice?
        >
        >Scott
        >
        >BTW, I wish Bridge would try to get their Fulkerson/Shannon violin
        >sonatas on a single disc too. I bet the full 2-disc price scares
        >away many buyers.
        >
        >
        >--- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Gene Halaburt <ghal@v...> wrote:
        > > Just to get it off my chest.... I recently purchased two CDs from
        > > Smithsonian Folkways Recordings,
        > > CI's four violin sonatas with Paul Zukofsky and Gilbert Kalish. The
        > > original recordings were made in
        > > 1964. The price owas 19.95 USD for each CD, plus shipping, for a
        >total of
        > > 45.40 USD. First off, the
        > > performances are superb and I love them. No, the performances are
        >not the
        > > problem. When I check
        > > the timings of the CDs, I find that one runs 40:34, the other
        >39:19. Yep,
        > > the four sonatas total time is
        > > 79:50. So why aren't the fours sonatas offered on one CD? You
        >tell me.
        > >
        > > -Gene
        >
        >
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • tony cole
        Recorded 1974 (not 64) I m sure - and the same as originally issued by Nonesuch - no finer accounts ever put on disc.......Tony. ... From: Scott Mortensen To:
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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          Recorded 1974 (not '64) I'm sure - and the same as originally issued by Nonesuch - no finer accounts ever put on disc.......Tony.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Scott Mortensen
          To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 3:43 PM
          Subject: [charlesives] Re: Corporate Greed


          Gene,

          Are these Smithsonian recordings of the violin sonatas the same as
          the ones that were released on Nonesuch LPs? Or did Kalish &
          Zukofsky record this music twice?

          Scott

          BTW, I wish Bridge would try to get their Fulkerson/Shannon violin
          sonatas on a single disc too. I bet the full 2-disc price scares
          away many buyers.


          --- In charlesives@yahoogroups.com, Gene Halaburt <ghal@v...> wrote:
          > Just to get it off my chest.... I recently purchased two CDs from
          > Smithsonian Folkways Recordings,
          > CI's four violin sonatas with Paul Zukofsky and Gilbert Kalish. The
          > original recordings were made in
          > 1964. The price owas 19.95 USD for each CD, plus shipping, for a
          total of
          > 45.40 USD. First off, the
          > performances are superb and I love them. No, the performances are
          not the
          > problem. When I check
          > the timings of the CDs, I find that one runs 40:34, the other
          39:19. Yep,
          > the four sonatas total time is
          > 79:50. So why aren't the fours sonatas offered on one CD? You
          tell me.
          >
          > -Gene


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gene Halaburt
          ... Interesting....This from the first page of the notes that accompanied the Smithsonian discs: Recorded under the supervision of Samuel Caharters at Judspn
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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            At 11:26 PM 7/2/2004 +0100, Tony wrote:

            >Recorded 1974 (not '64) I'm sure - and the same as originally issued by
            >Nonesuch - no finer accounts ever put on disc.......Tony.

            Interesting....This from the first page of the notes that accompanied the
            Smithsonian discs:

            "Recorded under the supervision of Samuel Caharters at Judspn Hall, New
            York, June 16, 17, and 18, 1964.
            Recording engineer, David Hancock."

            Also, in the Kalish bio at the end of the "notes" they state:

            "Gilbert Kalish, although just 29, has long been...."

            Since Kalish was born in 1935, one would assume that note was written in
            1964 or 1965.....

            -Gene
          • tony cole
            OOPs - yes, Gene, I ve mislead you all........clearly the Smithsonian ones are PZ/GK s 64 performances, but the liner notes for the Nonesuch recordings also
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 2, 2004
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              OOPs - yes, Gene, I've mislead you all........clearly the Smithsonian ones are PZ/GK's '64 performances, but the liner notes for the Nonesuch recordings also clearly state these as being new ones of '74 taking into account their access to John Kirkpatrick's "comparison of sources". This two-LP set also contains the largo from the pre-first sonata. Tony
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Gene Halaburt
              To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:45 PM
              Subject: Re: [charlesives] Re: Corporate Greed


              At 11:26 PM 7/2/2004 +0100, Tony wrote:

              >Recorded 1974 (not '64) I'm sure - and the same as originally issued by
              >Nonesuch - no finer accounts ever put on disc.......Tony.

              Interesting....This from the first page of the notes that accompanied the
              Smithsonian discs:

              "Recorded under the supervision of Samuel Caharters at Judspn Hall, New
              York, June 16, 17, and 18, 1964.
              Recording engineer, David Hancock."

              Also, in the Kalish bio at the end of the "notes" they state:

              "Gilbert Kalish, although just 29, has long been...."

              Since Kalish was born in 1935, one would assume that note was written in
              1964 or 1965.....

              -Gene


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • mskahuna2002
              Here s a very well written, thoughtful review of a New York Carter and Ives concert. What a joy it is to read reviews that are literate, written with
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                Here's a very well written, thoughtful review of a New York Carter and
                Ives concert. What a joy it is to read reviews that are literate,
                written with knowledge and feeling ! (a thank you, too, to Bob and
                orthers who do that on amazon)

                http://www.musicweb.uk.net/SandH/2004/May-Aug04/ives_175.htm
              • Scott Mortensen
                I wish I could have been there! Sounds great. Speaking of live performances, have any of you checked the Ives Society list of upcoming concerts recently?
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                  I wish I could have been there! Sounds great.

                  Speaking of live performances, have any of you checked the Ives Society list
                  of upcoming concerts recently?

                  http://www.charlesives.org/events.shtml

                  The concert that caught my eye: An Ives "Song Marathon" on August 15 in
                  Highland Park, Illinois. Every one of Ives' songs are going to be
                  performed! I think it's part of the Ravinia Festival. I might need to make
                  a trip up to Chi-town for this one.

                  Incidentally, Anne, Aimard will be performing the "Concord" in London on
                  August 30th. (Got tickets yet? ;-)

                  Take care.

                  Scott


                  ************************************
                  "The fabric of existence weaves itself whole..." -- Charles Ives
                  Visit a Charles Ives Website:
                  http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives

                  Join a Charles Ives Discussion List:
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/charlesives/






                  >From: "mskahuna2002" <anne.ozorio@...>
                  >Reply-To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [charlesives] Ives and Carter
                  >Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:22:14 -0000
                  >
                  >Here's a very well written, thoughtful review of a New York Carter and
                  >Ives concert. What a joy it is to read reviews that are literate,
                  >written with knowledge and feeling ! (a thank you, too, to Bob and
                  >orthers who do that on amazon)
                  >
                  >http://www.musicweb.uk.net/SandH/2004/May-Aug04/ives_175.htm
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
                  Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
                • Bob Zeidler
                  Anne wrote: (a thank you, too, to Bob and orthers who do that on amazon) ... Thanks for the compliment, Anne. There s also Scott Morrison (not Mortensen),
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                    Anne wrote:

                    (a thank you, too, to Bob and orthers who do that on amazon)

                    ------------------------

                    Thanks for the compliment, Anne. There's also Scott Morrison
                    (not Mortensen), who's posted here in the past.

                    And, in addition to his reviews of the New York concert scene on
                    Music Web UK, Bruce Hodges is also an Amazon reviewer:

                    http://snipurl.com/7j5z

                    Thanks to a lead that Scott (Mortensen) left some weeks ago, I've
                    been reading (and have just finished) Michael Broyles's
                    "Mavericks and Other Tradtions in American Music." I'm presently
                    writing a review of the book (hopefully done later today or
                    perhaps tomorrow). This book was an expensive exercise, in
                    that I'm now also following up on acquiring CDs of composers
                    I've somehow managed to overlook in the last half-century:
                    Anthony Philip Heinrich, Harry Partch and Meredith Monk, to
                    name just three.

                    Partch is turning out to be quite a revelation for me. His
                    "Delusion of the Fury" can best be described as mind-blowing.
                    What a shame that performances of his music (of course
                    requiring his instruments) died with him, and that
                    surround-sound DVD wasn't available 30 years ago!

                    Bob
                  • Anne Ozorio
                    ... How i d love to be at that one !!! I ll mention this to my song friends - maybe we can persuade Mary Ann Hart herself !! if you go, please, please
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                      > The concert that caught my eye: An Ives "Song Marathon" on August 15
                      > in Highland Park, Illinois. Every one of Ives' songs are going to be
                      > performed! I think it's part of the Ravinia Festival. I might need to
                      > make a trip up to Chi-town for this one.

                      How i'd love to be at that one !!! I'll mention this to my song
                      friends - maybe we can persuade Mary Ann Hart herself !! if you go,
                      please, please report.
                      >
                      > Incidentally, Anne, Aimard will be performing the "Concord" in London
                      > on August 30th. (Got tickets yet? ;-)

                      Not yet, it's a lunchtime concert so it's tricky for me to commute to
                      town for it. However, I'm trying to get a ticket to the Proms big
                      bash, the FOURTH ! That is something I'd really like to hear live.
                      A friend conducted it and the Universe, and said it wa quite an
                      experience. This is on 24th July and will be broadcast live on
                      www.bbc.co.uk. Most likely it will be repeated all the following
                      week as it's one of the "significant" ones. Conductor is Sakari
                      Oramo, whose work is always unusual and imaginative. He recently did
                      Elgar in a most unique way, and was raved. Orchestra is Birmingham S
                      O who are well used to Ives, after years of Rattle.

                      On Sunday 22nd there's another concert worth hearing. (Prom 49)

                      Ives, arr. John Adams and William Brohn
                      Songs of Ragtime and Reminiscence (21 mins)
                      Ives orch. Adams: Down East
                      Cannon orch. Brohn: Bill Bailey, Won't You Please Come Home?
                      Gershwin orch. Brohn: The Real American Folk Song (Is a Rag)
                      Ives orch. Adams: Serenity
                      Harris orch. Brohn: After the Ball
                      Ives orch. Adams: At the River
                      Berlin orch. Brohn: AlexanderÂ’s Ragtime Band
                      UK premiere

                      John Adams will be speaking before the programme. Also, they'll be
                      performing McPhee's Tabuh tabuha, the 1930's (?) Balinese piece
                      which has had such a profound impact on modern music (think Britten).
                      It's a BBC favourite, surprisingly often programmed. Wonder what
                      Adams will say about the Ives songs ? Wonder what the new versions
                      will be like ? This is going to be unique. If we do a CD tree on
                      this, it will be a classic.

                      At times like this I'm glad to pay tax because it serves the whole
                      world. Will we get all this free and internationally if Murdoch and
                      his pals in government get their way and run the BBC their way ?


                      Anne
                      anne.ozorio@...
                    • tony cole
                      My ticket for Aimard/Concord/Vic-Albert museum/30 Aug. arrived last week............Tony. ... From: Scott Mortensen To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                        My ticket for Aimard/Concord/Vic-Albert museum/30 Aug. arrived last week............Tony.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Scott Mortensen
                        To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:11 PM
                        Subject: RE: [charlesives] Ives and Carter


                        I wish I could have been there! Sounds great.

                        Speaking of live performances, have any of you checked the Ives Society list
                        of upcoming concerts recently?

                        http://www.charlesives.org/events.shtml

                        The concert that caught my eye: An Ives "Song Marathon" on August 15 in
                        Highland Park, Illinois. Every one of Ives' songs are going to be
                        performed! I think it's part of the Ravinia Festival. I might need to make
                        a trip up to Chi-town for this one.

                        Incidentally, Anne, Aimard will be performing the "Concord" in London on
                        August 30th. (Got tickets yet? ;-)

                        Take care.

                        Scott


                        ************************************
                        "The fabric of existence weaves itself whole..." -- Charles Ives
                        Visit a Charles Ives Website:
                        http://www.musicweb.uk.net/Ives

                        Join a Charles Ives Discussion List:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/charlesives/






                        >From: "mskahuna2002" <anne.ozorio@...>
                        >Reply-To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: [charlesives] Ives and Carter
                        >Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 12:22:14 -0000
                        >
                        >Here's a very well written, thoughtful review of a New York Carter and
                        >Ives concert. What a joy it is to read reviews that are literate,
                        >written with knowledge and feeling ! (a thank you, too, to Bob and
                        >orthers who do that on amazon)
                        >
                        >http://www.musicweb.uk.net/SandH/2004/May-Aug04/ives_175.htm
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        _________________________________________________________________
                        Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
                        Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx


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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • tony cole
                        Anne, - Jenny and I will be at the 4th Prom too.............Tony ... From: Anne Ozorio To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:46 PM
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                          Anne, - Jenny and I will be at the "4th" Prom too.............Tony
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Anne Ozorio
                          To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 4:46 PM
                          Subject: RE: [charlesives] Ives and Carter



                          > The concert that caught my eye: An Ives "Song Marathon" on August 15
                          > in Highland Park, Illinois. Every one of Ives' songs are going to be
                          > performed! I think it's part of the Ravinia Festival. I might need to
                          > make a trip up to Chi-town for this one.

                          How i'd love to be at that one !!! I'll mention this to my song
                          friends - maybe we can persuade Mary Ann Hart herself !! if you go,
                          please, please report.
                          >
                          > Incidentally, Anne, Aimard will be performing the "Concord" in London
                          > on August 30th. (Got tickets yet? ;-)

                          Not yet, it's a lunchtime concert so it's tricky for me to commute to
                          town for it. However, I'm trying to get a ticket to the Proms big
                          bash, the FOURTH ! That is something I'd really like to hear live.
                          A friend conducted it and the Universe, and said it wa quite an
                          experience. This is on 24th July and will be broadcast live on
                          www.bbc.co.uk. Most likely it will be repeated all the following
                          week as it's one of the "significant" ones. Conductor is Sakari
                          Oramo, whose work is always unusual and imaginative. He recently did
                          Elgar in a most unique way, and was raved. Orchestra is Birmingham S
                          O who are well used to Ives, after years of Rattle.

                          On Sunday 22nd there's another concert worth hearing. (Prom 49)

                          Ives, arr. John Adams and William Brohn
                          Songs of Ragtime and Reminiscence (21 mins)
                          Ives orch. Adams: Down East
                          Cannon orch. Brohn: Bill Bailey, Won't You Please Come Home?
                          Gershwin orch. Brohn: The Real American Folk Song (Is a Rag)
                          Ives orch. Adams: Serenity
                          Harris orch. Brohn: After the Ball
                          Ives orch. Adams: At the River
                          Berlin orch. Brohn: Alexander's Ragtime Band
                          UK premiere

                          John Adams will be speaking before the programme. Also, they'll be
                          performing McPhee's Tabuh tabuha, the 1930's (?) Balinese piece
                          which has had such a profound impact on modern music (think Britten).
                          It's a BBC favourite, surprisingly often programmed. Wonder what
                          Adams will say about the Ives songs ? Wonder what the new versions
                          will be like ? This is going to be unique. If we do a CD tree on
                          this, it will be a classic.

                          At times like this I'm glad to pay tax because it serves the whole
                          world. Will we get all this free and internationally if Murdoch and
                          his pals in government get their way and run the BBC their way ?


                          Anne
                          anne.ozorio@...


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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Gene Halaburt
                          ... I just heard from Gilbert Kalish, who informs me that he and Paul Zukofsky did indeed record the sonatas twice, once in 1964 for Folkways and then some ten
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jul 5, 2004
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                            At 07:36 AM 7/3/2004 +0100, Tony wrote:

                            >OOPs - yes, Gene, I've mislead you all........clearly the Smithsonian ones
                            >are PZ/GK's '64 performances, but the liner notes for the Nonesuch
                            >recordings also clearly state these as being new ones of '74 taking into
                            >account their access to John Kirkpatrick's "comparison of sources". This
                            >two-LP set also contains the largo from the pre-first sonata.


                            I just heard from Gilbert Kalish, who informs me that he and Paul Zukofsky
                            did indeed record the sonatas twice, once
                            in 1964 for Folkways and then some ten years later for Nonesuch. When I am
                            able to obtain a copy of the OOP Nonesuch recording, I look forward to
                            being able to compare the two performances.

                            -Gene
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