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Re: [charlesives] CD help

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  • Bob S.
    Gil Kalish s recording of the Concord Sonata is by far the best. Bob Summers ... _________________________________________________________________ Protect
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 16, 2003
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      Gil Kalish's recording of the "Concord Sonata" is by far the best.

      Bob Summers


      >From: "Christian Tucker" <ctucker1@...>
      >Reply-To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
      >To: <charlesives@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: [charlesives] CD help
      >Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:19:44 -0400
      >
      >I'm not much into piano music. I've been avoiding getting the "Concord
      >Sonata" for more than thirty years! It's time. BUT, I have no clue about
      >pianists. Looking at Amazon I've narrowed it down to three, and I'm
      >willing to change my mind! All three have bunches of stars and rave
      >reviews. Do youse guys have opinions about the following or alternatives
      >that are still in print?
      >
      >Nina Deutsch
      >Richard Trythall
      >Gilbert Kalish
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Christian Tucker
      >New York
      >

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    • quartodeciman
      Christian, Thank you for asking this question. I had fun checking it out. First of all, I would have looked on Scott s Ives website for his recommendations on
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 16, 2003
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        Christian,

        Thank you for asking this question. I had fun checking it out.

        First of all, I would have looked on Scott's Ives website for his
        recommendations on Concord recordings, but it was off the air.

        I went to amazon.com and played the music samples offered, which are
        just the starts of the movements. Based on this tiny bit of
        information I would determine my inclination in the matter. I
        couldn't find Kalish, but I already have the Nonesuch LP. It is an
        OK version. So my search concentrated on comparing Deutsch and
        Trythall. I played the start of each movement back-to-back for
        several cycles.

        results:

        I pick Trythall. This is mostly based on the starts of Emerson (1st
        movement) and Hawthorne (2nd movement). I love the querky way he
        expands the opening of Emerson, illustrating Ives' instruction NOT
        to play too evenly. Deutsch seems a touch more calm, and exhibits
        excellent motivic clarity. I like her opening to Alcotts. But I
        think I'll stick to my choice of Trythall. Both are probably very
        excellent, but I don't know the rest, since I have never listened to
        any of either recording before. Both recordings also include more
        Ives piano music. Both have Three Page Sonata, and that is good.
        The Deutsch recording also has Emerson Transcriptions and Sonata #1,
        of which I especially like movements #1 and #5. I'm not sure
        whether any of that interests you.

        If you are really generally indifferent to pianistic works, I can't
        really predict how you will take to any of these recordings. But
        maybe a wee touch of Charlie is just what is needed to turn you
        around. ;)

        {buy 'em both!} ;)
      • Scott Mortensen
        Christian, I m not familiar with Deutsch or Trythall. Kalish is good. But I think he s too gentle overall. He s very good in the lyrical passages, but the
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 16, 2003
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          Christian,

          I'm not familiar with Deutsch or Trythall. Kalish is good. But I think
          he's too gentle overall. He's very good in the lyrical passages, but the
          music needs to be pounded out at times, and Kalish doesn't ever quite "let
          loose." So it ends up sounding a bit "samey"--to my ears.

          My favorite recording of the "Concord" is by Marc-Andre Hamelin on New World
          records. Hamelin has prodigious technique; he's an absolutely stunning
          player. But he's also got a tremendous feel for the music. I'd say that his
          reading is MUCH better than Kalish's.

          Just my opinion, of course.

          My other favorite versions of the "Concord" are (in order of preference):
          --Mead (Metier Records, available only in the UK, 2 disc set, expensive in
          very mediocre sound, but still wonderful. Mead's got the best "Hawthorne"
          of all, to my ears. The other works on the set are excellent as well, except
          for the sub-par, but not terrible, recording quality.)
          --Kirkpatrick (the classic Columbia, oop)
          --Szidon (DGG, oop I think, may still be available in the UK, coupled with
          MTT's "3 Places")
          --Kalish
          --Mandel

          And last of all don't forget CEI himself. ("Ives Plays Ives" on CRI.) Of
          course you'll only get "The Alcotts" from the "Concord." (And lots of other
          bits and pieces of other works--much of it in terrible, ancient sound.)
          Regardless, this disc "opened up" Ives piano music for me. It all just made
          much more sense after hearing this. I played it over and over again. Then
          I went back to the sonata. Suddenly, it was a whole different piece of
          music.

          BTW, I started with Kalish, and found the sonata inpenetrable. Ives' own
          recordings and Hamelin were my path.

          I'm also excited about the Pierre-Laurent Aimard disc that I mentioned the
          other day. Though I'm not sure when it is coming out. It may be a while.
          But I'm definitely going to pick it up when it becomes avialable.

          Best of luck with your listening. I'm jealous that you have this discovery
          in front of you! ;-)

          Scott



          >From: "Christian Tucker" <ctucker1@...>
          >Reply-To: charlesives@yahoogroups.com
          >To: <charlesives@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: [charlesives] CD help
          >Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:19:44 -0400
          >
          >I'm not much into piano music. I've been avoiding getting the "Concord
          >Sonata" for more than thirty years! It's time. BUT, I have no clue about
          >pianists. Looking at Amazon I've narrowed it down to three, and I'm
          >willing to change my mind! All three have bunches of stars and rave
          >reviews. Do youse guys have opinions about the following or alternatives
          >that are still in print?
          >
          >Nina Deutsch
          >Richard Trythall
          >Gilbert Kalish
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Christian Tucker
          >New York
          >

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        • Christian Tucker
          ... Well, that was very useful. Thanks all three of you folks. Sorry that I didn t think to provide URL s for the choices. Next time! AND three suggestions!
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 17, 2003
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            |bunches of stars and rave reviews. Do youse guys have opinions
            |about the following or alternatives that are still in print?
            |
            |Nina Deutsch
            |Richard Trythall
            |Gilbert Kalish
            |
            |Marc-Andre Hamelin


            Well, that was very useful. Thanks all three of you folks. Sorry that I didn't think to provide URL's for the choices. Next time!

            AND three suggestions! I went back and did the Amazon 30 sec thing for all four and used the information you folks provided. I made a choice - yes, buying all four would have been best! But I learned a bit about what to "hear" and that was /very/ useful.


            Christian
            New York
          • Christian Tucker
            ... I took a thirty year vacation from Ives and I am discovering everything new and from a very different world view! My first go around was in the 60 s and I
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 17, 2003
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              |Best of luck with your listening. I'm jealous that you have this discovery
              |in front of you! ;-)


              I took a thirty year vacation from Ives and I am discovering everything new and from a very different world view!

              My first go around was in the '60's and I had to budget record purchases very carefully. I still have to budget, but I now know that I have to do a bit of "scholarship" buying in addition to getting things that I like.

              Again, thanks for the input.



              Christian
              New York
            • quartodeciman
              Christian, ... Did you get your selected Concord Sonata CD? I m thinking about the work today and wondering how you have taken to it. Regards, quart
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 17, 2003
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                Christian,

                > I made a choice

                Did you get your selected Concord Sonata CD? I'm thinking about the
                work today and wondering how you have taken to it.

                Regards,
                quart
              • Christian Tucker
                ... LOL! I made my choice and a second choice. While I was hemming and hawing, both went out of print and out of circulation! I know that I can track
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 17, 2003
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                  |Christian,
                  |
                  |> I made a choice
                  |
                  |Did you get your selected Concord Sonata CD? I'm thinking about the
                  |work today and wondering how you have taken to it.


                  LOL!
                  I made my choice and a second choice. While I was hemming and hawing, both went out of print and out of circulation! I know that I can track either/both down with a bit of work, but I have decided to wait for the new recording that folks here mentioned and see what the reaction might be from those of you who know what needs to be considered.

                  Meanwhile, I've been on an RVW binge . . .

                  I'm not musician nor musicologist to know why I seem to use both Ives and RVW as my "go to" guys when I have a need for solid music. There is no common life nor history connection between the two. Swafford makes a feeble relation between Mahler and Ives which I /don't/ see. BUT, I do feel in my emotional makeup that Ives and RVW are both speaking to something in my "system."


                  Christian
                • quartodeciman
                  Vaughn Williams is someone I have never really paid much attention to. Let s see. CEI 1874-1954 RVW 1872-1958 They had pretty much overlapped timelines, with
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 17, 2003
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                    Vaughn Williams is someone I have never really paid much attention
                    to.

                    Let's see.

                    CEI 1874-1954
                    RVW 1872-1958

                    They had pretty much overlapped timelines, with RVW getting an extra
                    6 years.

                    RVW seems to have composed new work throughout his life, while Ives
                    composed no new works after 1925 ->

                    1878 The Robin's Nest
                    1958 Four Last Songs, Three Vocalises
                    .

                    RVW wrote 9 symphonies, distributed through his 20th century years.

                    CEI & RVW went to universities and took degrees in music within two
                    years of each other.
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